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"It's almost a little strange why marketers and advertisers are so apprehensive" about Reddit, said Amanda Parker, an account supervisor for digital marketing a

by neotek 8y ago

"It's almost a little strange why marketers and advertisers are so apprehensive" about Reddit, said Amanda Parker, an account supervisor for digital marketing agency PMG. "Marketers chase scale, and Reddit has it. I think they have an old-fashioned view of who Redditors are." Pretty obvious I would have thought: as long as reddit remains the platform of choice for all the worst hate groups in America, the harder it will be for them to attract advertisers. If reddit insists on turning a blind eye to open and unchecked racism, calls for genocide, threats of physical violence, and bucketloads of other abhorrent content its co-founder describes as "valuable discussion", then that's the price they have to pay.

weiming 8y ago
I thought they did away with nearly most of those "famous" toxic subreddits.
- slivym 8y ago
  A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So whilst dead children might be off limits, /r/the_donald is still around despite the whole pizzagate shooting.
  - weiming 8y ago
    Wouldn't your statement be equatable with "Churches are still around despite some crazy attacking an abortion clinic"?
    - colordrops 8y ago
      Apparently we will gladly give away our rights and freedoms to hurt "the other side".
    - slivym 8y ago
      Churches aren't supported by ad revenue.
- notatoad 8y ago
  reddit has a long history of doing away with the most famous toxic subreddits while allowing other nearly identical subreddits to exist as long as they aren't getting significant media attention. for every scandalous subreddit you hear about in the news, there's a hundred more potential controversies just waiting to be discovered, and no proactive enforcement of any rules or community standards.
MagnitudeFC 8y ago
yeah, i don't think you understand how free speech works or why reddit is so popular
solarkraft 8y ago
They're fairly proud of hosting weird fringe communities, it's a good market. With this reputation, most subreddits being harmless and full of puns and the opportunity to super-focus ads to perfect groups there is a lot of real value in it for advertisers.
- slivym 8y ago
  At the same time it falls into the youtube problem though - advertisers are very uncomfortable with their brand appearing next to some incredibly objectionable content, which is very hard to police.
  - digi_owl 8y ago
    I wonder if there is a corollary to rule 34: that someone, somewhere, will find anything objectionable.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Typical HN pessimism, so objectionable. /s
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Is it hard to police? Put stories in to an advertising bidding queue, buy the story you want to advertise in; probably decreasing cost starting at 5x average for the sub (or something like that). Queue items get flushed to the site after a timeout (few minutes). Advertisers police their own ads, they pay up front but can remove ads from a story. Advertisers is such a system will be rewarded for targeting appropriate subs, they get lower costs, less competing bidders. Advertisers could even virtue signal on predicted negative stories, "we too think Hitler should have kicked back and smoked a bowl, fellow kids". Seems like there's a million and one ways to do similar: giving advertisers control (and using timed-bidding to push revenue).
    - notatoad 8y ago
      i'm not too familiar with the mechanics of digital ad buying, but i can't imagine any advertiser will be willing to sit there and individually choose which individual stories their ads appear next to. don't ad purchases happen in bulk?
EasyTiger_ 8y ago
Curious what subreddit you're referring to. I've seen all you describe and worse in the politics subreddit.
brosirmandude 8y ago
It could be this, but I also think it's just...no one has any idea how to market on reddit via paid advertising. Obviously /r/hailcorporate exists for a reason as many marketers are successful in marketing on reddit "organically", but those don't go through their official advertising system. Reddit users as a whole seem averse (much like HN users) to ads. I would imagine conversion on reddit ads isn't very high, but I haven't looked at any data on that so I could be wrong there - just a feeling based on comments I see from many reddit users. Also it's hard to implement ad types on the platform that don't piss off users or use shady tactics making them "blend in" to the organic content of a reddit page.
qubax 8y ago
> Pretty obvious I would have thought: as long as reddit remains the platform of choice for all the worst hate groups in America, the harder it will be for them to attract advertisers. Hate groups? Are you talking about the DNC, liberal media, lgbt groups or some other groups on reddit? Because reddit is now pretty much entirely DNC, liberal media and lgbt content. Also, it's previous obvious from a naive social justice warrior perspective, but it's far more complex than that. The biggest problem for reddit is that it's fairly anonymous and they are fairly late to the mobile scene. It's one of the reasons why reddit now tries to "trick" you into providing an email address to create an account and even provide your cell number for authentication. It's why they are trying so hard to move their user base onto mobile with their redesign. While google and facebook's ( and even apple/amazon's ) are able to glean data off of their user base, reddit is unable to ( for the time being ). Advertisers love targeted ads. It's difficult to target ads on an anonymous forum. Whereas on google and facebook, their users are willing to provide all their private information for free and these companies can leverage the information to upsell to advertisers. > If reddit insists on turning a blind eye to open and unchecked racism Why don't you check the racism? Go to reddit and fight it. Why should an open forum based on free speech censor racism? > calls for genocide You think reddit can shut down the DNC and RNC? The media? Hollywood? > threats of physical violence Then call the police. It's a criminal matter, not a reddit matter. > and bucketloads of other abhorrent content its co-founder describes as "valuable discussion" Abhorrent to whom? You? Using your logic, every sub should be shut down. Do you think the lgbt sub should be suspended because billions of people find that abhorrent? > then that's the price they have to pay. Their co-founders are multi-millionaires. And it isn't "abhorrent" content. It's reddit's insistence on being anonymous for much of its history. It was one of reddit's major selling points. It was HN's major selling point too until people who hated free speech gained influence. It never ceases to amaze me how people on a "hackers" forum could be so blindly and naively pro-censorship.

by neotek 8y ago

weiming 8y ago

I thought they did away with nearly most of those "famous" toxic subreddits.

slivym 8y ago
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So whilst dead children might be off limits, /r/the_donald is still around despite the whole pizzagate shooting.
- weiming 8y ago
  Wouldn't your statement be equatable with "Churches are still around despite some crazy attacking an abortion clinic"?
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Apparently we will gladly give away our rights and freedoms to hurt "the other side".
  - slivym 8y ago
    Churches aren't supported by ad revenue.
notatoad 8y ago
reddit has a long history of doing away with the most famous toxic subreddits while allowing other nearly identical subreddits to exist as long as they aren't getting significant media attention. for every scandalous subreddit you hear about in the news, there's a hundred more potential controversies just waiting to be discovered, and no proactive enforcement of any rules or community standards.

MagnitudeFC 8y ago

yeah, i don't think you understand how free speech works or why reddit is so popular

solarkraft 8y ago

They're fairly proud of hosting weird fringe communities, it's a good market. With this reputation, most subreddits being harmless and full of puns and the opportunity to super-focus ads to perfect groups there is a lot of real value in it for advertisers.

slivym 8y ago
At the same time it falls into the youtube problem though - advertisers are very uncomfortable with their brand appearing next to some incredibly objectionable content, which is very hard to police.
- digi_owl 8y ago
  I wonder if there is a corollary to rule 34: that someone, somewhere, will find anything objectionable.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    Typical HN pessimism, so objectionable. /s
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Is it hard to police? Put stories in to an advertising bidding queue, buy the story you want to advertise in; probably decreasing cost starting at 5x average for the sub (or something like that). Queue items get flushed to the site after a timeout (few minutes). Advertisers police their own ads, they pay up front but can remove ads from a story. Advertisers is such a system will be rewarded for targeting appropriate subs, they get lower costs, less competing bidders. Advertisers could even virtue signal on predicted negative stories, "we too think Hitler should have kicked back and smoked a bowl, fellow kids". Seems like there's a million and one ways to do similar: giving advertisers control (and using timed-bidding to push revenue).
  - notatoad 8y ago
    i'm not too familiar with the mechanics of digital ad buying, but i can't imagine any advertiser will be willing to sit there and individually choose which individual stories their ads appear next to. don't ad purchases happen in bulk?

EasyTiger_ 8y ago

Curious what subreddit you're referring to. I've seen all you describe and worse in the politics subreddit.

brosirmandude 8y ago

It could be this, but I also think it's just...no one has any idea how to market on reddit via paid advertising. Obviously /r/hailcorporate exists for a reason as many marketers are successful in marketing on reddit "organically", but those don't go through their official advertising system. Reddit users as a whole seem averse (much like HN users) to ads. I would imagine conversion on reddit ads isn't very high, but I haven't looked at any data on that so I could be wrong there - just a feeling based on comments I see from many reddit users. Also it's hard to implement ad types on the platform that don't piss off users or use shady tactics making them "blend in" to the organic content of a reddit page.

qubax 8y ago

> Pretty obvious I would have thought: as long as reddit remains the platform of choice for all the worst hate groups in America, the harder it will be for them to attract advertisers. Hate groups? Are you talking about the DNC, liberal media, lgbt groups or some other groups on reddit? Because reddit is now pretty much entirely DNC, liberal media and lgbt content. Also, it's previous obvious from a naive social justice warrior perspective, but it's far more complex than that. The biggest problem for reddit is that it's fairly anonymous and they are fairly late to the mobile scene. It's one of the reasons why reddit now tries to "trick" you into providing an email address to create an account and even provide your cell number for authentication. It's why they are trying so hard to move their user base onto mobile with their redesign. While google and facebook's ( and even apple/amazon's ) are able to glean data off of their user base, reddit is unable to ( for the time being ). Advertisers love targeted ads. It's difficult to target ads on an anonymous forum. Whereas on google and facebook, their users are willing to provide all their private information for free and these companies can leverage the information to upsell to advertisers. > If reddit insists on turning a blind eye to open and unchecked racism Why don't you check the racism? Go to reddit and fight it. Why should an open forum based on free speech censor racism? > calls for genocide You think reddit can shut down the DNC and RNC? The media? Hollywood? > threats of physical violence Then call the police. It's a criminal matter, not a reddit matter. > and bucketloads of other abhorrent content its co-founder describes as "valuable discussion" Abhorrent to whom? You? Using your logic, every sub should be shut down. Do you think the lgbt sub should be suspended because billions of people find that abhorrent? > then that's the price they have to pay. Their co-founders are multi-millionaires. And it isn't "abhorrent" content. It's reddit's insistence on being anonymous for much of its history. It was one of reddit's major selling points. It was HN's major selling point too until people who hated free speech gained influence. It never ceases to amaze me how people on a "hackers" forum could be so blindly and naively pro-censorship.