4 ms·

You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, an

by pzxc 8y ago

You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, and start thinking about how we might replace him.) It happens. Not infrequently. It's why I never tell my employer when I get an offer. They might just give me the raise because it would hurt to lose me today but they can lose me in a couple months, and then the offer I had at the new company is long gone.

mac01021 8y ago
So, having received an offer that you're inclined to accept, you will never be swayed by a counteroffer from your current employer? I suppose the logic is sound, especially if you know you aren't hard to replace. I feel I need to at least go through the motion of entertaining the counteroffer, though. Otherwise they'll think I don't like them or be offended and I'll have maybe burnt a bridge. Of course, for the same reason, I was never looking for another job. That offer came to me on its own.
- joezydeco 8y ago
  You need to think back as to what made you start job hunting in the first place. It didn’t happen spontaneously. Will a counteroffer change that situation?
  - finaliteration 8y ago
    I’m actually sort of in this situation. I just interviewed for another position and it went extremely well. The thing is I’m pretty happy with my current job and role except for one dimension: Salary. If they would pay me what the market says I’m worth (and I’ve done a ton of market research) then I’d be happy to stay where I am for the foreseeable future. But if another company offers me a job and the work and environment seem comparable but they’re willing to pay more... I’d seriously consider that offer and be prepared to leave. However, if my current employer comes back and says, “Actually we will beat that by x%” then I’d seriously consider staying. It also helps that someone else in the company did just this and is still with the company a couple years later.
  - fsloth 8y ago
    Dude, sometimes people are in a financial stretch and the increase in compensation is the only reason to search for alternatives. Especially in big corps there can be a policy of being stingy with the wages unless there is some scenario like a need for counteroffer for a high performing individual contributor. Now, you can think the company is cheap and does not really earn you contribution. However, the psychological reality is that people don't work in their companies - they work inside teams within companies, and the duties and the culture of the team can be great even if the company policy (likely sculpted out of feeling of ficudiary duty towards stockholders among other things) feels cheap. Great teams and great managers are far more important for a great job than "great companies". Yes, the latent company culture affects team as well, but that's only one aspect of the whole.
    - pnutjam 8y ago
      When HPE hired me on, I know I was about 20% more then the guy who had been doing the job for 20 years. Companies don't value you if you stick around. Your only hurting yourself.
  - ido 8y ago
    Depends on the situation, sometimes - sure. I'm pretty happy where I am right now, but if you give me an offer to an attractive position for 20% more money I'd at the very least entertain the notion.
    - joezydeco 8y ago
      My point is that an offer like that would seem attractive, but two things: A) The company didn't value you until it was too late. Their opinion of you hasn't changed, just the pay rate. B) The company now has painted a target on your back as someone that is "in it for the money" and doesn't have the best interests of the company in mind. It's bullshit, but that's now management thinks. Next time a budget cut or RIF is necessary, guess who is first in line? In both cases, you need to weigh if that's worth sticking around for.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    If "not being paid enough" was what made you start job hunting, then a counteroffer would likely change the situation. Last place I left, I made it exceedingly clear, a year before resignation, 6 months before resignation, and during resignation, that all they needed to do to retain me was to bring me back up to market rate. I would have definitely stayed if they were forthcoming with a counteroffer.
crdoconnor 8y ago
If they promote the kinds of people who will cling on to a job for dear life (non-flight risks) they will not end up with good people at the top.
- bryanrasmussen 8y ago
  if they promote the kinds of people who don't like to look for new jobs they might or might not end up with good people at the top.
vonmoltke 8y ago
> You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, and start thinking about how we might replace him.) This seems like a counterproductive response if the labor market is tight.
- shawabawa3 8y ago
  You know what I've never had in my entire career? Company: The market is competitive and your market rate has increased, so here's a raise (of more than 2-3%) Every single time I've got a raise I've had to either fight for it or move, and then companies are wondering why so many people move...
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    Definitely agree. The one time I ever got a significant raise required me to lobby unbelievably hard despite the fact that I was carrying the weight of my whole team and had to do an unreal amount of shit shoveling devops, web service, and data cleaning work in addition to all the machine learning work that was “actually” my job. I was lucky that my direct manager valued me and guided me through the process of documenting my accomplishments in the right ways to present the case for a substantial promotion. Apart from this one time, I have always been told the company can’t offer raises or discretionary bonuses beyond whatever the board grants for cost of living, and have to switch jobs repeatedly if I want to earn more. I don’t get it. I feel like it must be some misaligned incentive problem with HR preferring to make executives believe turnover and constant hiring have to always be the norm, to justify their jobs, instead of cultivating a culture of long tenures by actually offering substantial raises or bonuses.
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    You are right about that. This is a slightly different situation, though. What you describe is scenario #2 up-thread. The person I was responding to was posting an alternative to scenario #3. I'm just saying that in a tight labor market a company adopting response #4 instead of response #3 is cutting off their nose to spite your face.

by pzxc 8y ago

mac01021 8y ago

So, having received an offer that you're inclined to accept, you will never be swayed by a counteroffer from your current employer? I suppose the logic is sound, especially if you know you aren't hard to replace. I feel I need to at least go through the motion of entertaining the counteroffer, though. Otherwise they'll think I don't like them or be offended and I'll have maybe burnt a bridge. Of course, for the same reason, I was never looking for another job. That offer came to me on its own.

joezydeco 8y ago
You need to think back as to what made you start job hunting in the first place. It didn’t happen spontaneously. Will a counteroffer change that situation?
- finaliteration 8y ago
  I’m actually sort of in this situation. I just interviewed for another position and it went extremely well. The thing is I’m pretty happy with my current job and role except for one dimension: Salary. If they would pay me what the market says I’m worth (and I’ve done a ton of market research) then I’d be happy to stay where I am for the foreseeable future. But if another company offers me a job and the work and environment seem comparable but they’re willing to pay more... I’d seriously consider that offer and be prepared to leave. However, if my current employer comes back and says, “Actually we will beat that by x%” then I’d seriously consider staying. It also helps that someone else in the company did just this and is still with the company a couple years later.
- fsloth 8y ago
  Dude, sometimes people are in a financial stretch and the increase in compensation is the only reason to search for alternatives. Especially in big corps there can be a policy of being stingy with the wages unless there is some scenario like a need for counteroffer for a high performing individual contributor. Now, you can think the company is cheap and does not really earn you contribution. However, the psychological reality is that people don't work in their companies - they work inside teams within companies, and the duties and the culture of the team can be great even if the company policy (likely sculpted out of feeling of ficudiary duty towards stockholders among other things) feels cheap. Great teams and great managers are far more important for a great job than "great companies". Yes, the latent company culture affects team as well, but that's only one aspect of the whole.
  - pnutjam 8y ago
    When HPE hired me on, I know I was about 20% more then the guy who had been doing the job for 20 years. Companies don't value you if you stick around. Your only hurting yourself.
- ido 8y ago
  Depends on the situation, sometimes - sure. I'm pretty happy where I am right now, but if you give me an offer to an attractive position for 20% more money I'd at the very least entertain the notion.
  - joezydeco 8y ago
    My point is that an offer like that would seem attractive, but two things: A) The company didn't value you until it was too late. Their opinion of you hasn't changed, just the pay rate. B) The company now has painted a target on your back as someone that is "in it for the money" and doesn't have the best interests of the company in mind. It's bullshit, but that's now management thinks. Next time a budget cut or RIF is necessary, guess who is first in line? In both cases, you need to weigh if that's worth sticking around for.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  If "not being paid enough" was what made you start job hunting, then a counteroffer would likely change the situation. Last place I left, I made it exceedingly clear, a year before resignation, 6 months before resignation, and during resignation, that all they needed to do to retain me was to bring me back up to market rate. I would have definitely stayed if they were forthcoming with a counteroffer.

crdoconnor 8y ago

If they promote the kinds of people who will cling on to a job for dear life (non-flight risks) they will not end up with good people at the top.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago
if they promote the kinds of people who don't like to look for new jobs they might or might not end up with good people at the top.

vonmoltke 8y ago

> You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, and start thinking about how we might replace him.) This seems like a counterproductive response if the labor market is tight.

shawabawa3 8y ago
You know what I've never had in my entire career? Company: The market is competitive and your market rate has increased, so here's a raise (of more than 2-3%) Every single time I've got a raise I've had to either fight for it or move, and then companies are wondering why so many people move...
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Definitely agree. The one time I ever got a significant raise required me to lobby unbelievably hard despite the fact that I was carrying the weight of my whole team and had to do an unreal amount of shit shoveling devops, web service, and data cleaning work in addition to all the machine learning work that was “actually” my job. I was lucky that my direct manager valued me and guided me through the process of documenting my accomplishments in the right ways to present the case for a substantial promotion. Apart from this one time, I have always been told the company can’t offer raises or discretionary bonuses beyond whatever the board grants for cost of living, and have to switch jobs repeatedly if I want to earn more. I don’t get it. I feel like it must be some misaligned incentive problem with HR preferring to make executives believe turnover and constant hiring have to always be the norm, to justify their jobs, instead of cultivating a culture of long tenures by actually offering substantial raises or bonuses.
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  You are right about that. This is a slightly different situation, though. What you describe is scenario #2 up-thread. The person I was responding to was posting an alternative to scenario #3. I'm just saying that in a tight labor market a company adopting response #4 instead of response #3 is cutting off their nose to spite your face.