7 ms·

We often have positions open and our office is close to <redacted fortune 100 company>. So, every so often, we get a few applicants from there. Some of them a

by keyle 8y ago

We often have positions open and our office is close to <redacted fortune 100 company>. So, every so often, we get a few applicants from there. Some of them are good, and we offer them a job; only to find out that they're not interested anymore. Usually something along the lines of "thanks for the offer, but I've been given bigger and better responsibilities and I'm not looking at leaving anymore", or "I've been assigned to a more exciting project, I will see how it goes", or "I've had a new position offered within the company so I will follow this lead for now". So, yeah... We're happy to help the other guys move up the ladder, really, been there myself; but it's a bit sad, that's what it takes to get promoted: another job offer and a resignation letter in hand.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mac01021 8y ago
I try to put myself in the company's shoes: Employee: Please pay me more. Company: Why? Employee: If you don't then I will be able to find a more lucrative/satisfactory position elsewhere. At this point in the conversation, the company has only a couple of possible responses: 1. You're free to do so. I'm not increasing your pay. 2. Ok. I'll take your word for it. Here's a raise. 3. Prove it, and I'll give you a raise. #1 is the only option if the company is strapped for cash and the best option when the employee's net value is low. #2 can be a good choice if you have a very good sense of the job market and what makes a competitive compensation package OR if the employee's net value is high and an equally good substitute will be difficult to find. In all other situations, #3 does seem the most sensible and least risky. If a company is inclined to #2, they can and probably should award the raise preemptively, before it has been asked for. Now, as an employee, if I suppose the company has thought all of this through, and they haven't preempted me with an offer of a raise, then I can infer that #2 is not among the possibilities. So I probably don't even need to ask for a raise. I should probably just look for other jobs and then when I get an offer I can find out if the company is going to take option 1 or option 3. As a big company, such as a Fortune 500, often a manager will want badly to retain an employee and would happily go for #2, even preemptively. But if the senior management (who never even sees that employee) does not share the manager's assessment of the employee's value or the manager's familiarity with the job market for that role, then they will not allow it. I've seen all of these cases occur. Happily, my current employer is happy to pursue option #2 for high-performing employees.
- pzxc 8y ago
  You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, and start thinking about how we might replace him.) It happens. Not infrequently. It's why I never tell my employer when I get an offer. They might just give me the raise because it would hurt to lose me today but they can lose me in a couple months, and then the offer I had at the new company is long gone.
  - mac01021 8y ago
    So, having received an offer that you're inclined to accept, you will never be swayed by a counteroffer from your current employer? I suppose the logic is sound, especially if you know you aren't hard to replace. I feel I need to at least go through the motion of entertaining the counteroffer, though. Otherwise they'll think I don't like them or be offended and I'll have maybe burnt a bridge. Of course, for the same reason, I was never looking for another job. That offer came to me on its own.
    - joezydeco 8y ago
      You need to think back as to what made you start job hunting in the first place. It didn’t happen spontaneously. Will a counteroffer change that situation?
      - finaliteration 8y ago
        I’m actually sort of in this situation. I just interviewed for another position and it went extremely well. The thing is I’m pretty happy with my current job and role except for one dimension: Salary. If they would pay me what the market says I’m worth (and I’ve done a ton of market research) then I’d be happy to stay where I am for the foreseeable future. But if another company offers me a job and the work and environment seem comparable but they’re willing to pay more... I’d seriously consider that offer and be prepared to leave. However, if my current employer comes back and says, “Actually we will beat that by x%” then I’d seriously consider staying. It also helps that someone else in the company did just this and is still with the company a couple years later.
rdiddly 8y ago
You should start charging a fee. JOaaS.
- dsnuh 8y ago
  >JOaaS. This was called "Craigslist Casual Encounters" I believe.
  - rdiddly 8y ago
    Heh heh... I meant "job offer," not "jack off!"
    - dsnuh 8y ago
      I know, I couldn't resist. ;)
SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
I work for BigCo and I see exact same thing on the other side. In fact, the #1 way I see good contractors get converted into full-time employees is when they get another job offer and threaten to leave.
rando444 8y ago
It's just playing your cards smart. If you're going to the negotiating table, it's best to be fully willing to walk away if your demands aren't met. If you don't have a backup plan in pocket, you're likely going to be willing to compromise when management tries to talk you down.
albacur 8y ago
This has typically been my experience. If I ask for a raise, my employer does not have the resources, their hands are tied, there’s absolutely nothing they can do. Then when I find another job, suddenly they find money, can match any offer, and will do whatever it takes to keep me. I used to take the raise, but not anymore. The employer has already lost trust by lying outright in its initial negotiation. They’ve made me jump through the hoops of a programmer interview process, and wasted my time, their time, and another company’s time, all on a gamble that I can’t or won’t get an attractive offer elsewhere. No thanks, I’ll take my chances elsewhere.
golergka 8y ago
Why is it sad? It's literally the labour market working it's best. If one of the developers that report to tell me that he deserves a higher salary and I woul find myself disagreeing with him, I would literally ask him to go out and get some offers, so instead of relying on our limited and biased understanding of the market, we would both rely on something more objective instead.

by keyle 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mac01021 8y ago

I try to put myself in the company's shoes: Employee: Please pay me more. Company: Why? Employee: If you don't then I will be able to find a more lucrative/satisfactory position elsewhere. At this point in the conversation, the company has only a couple of possible responses: 1. You're free to do so. I'm not increasing your pay. 2. Ok. I'll take your word for it. Here's a raise. 3. Prove it, and I'll give you a raise. #1 is the only option if the company is strapped for cash and the best option when the employee's net value is low. #2 can be a good choice if you have a very good sense of the job market and what makes a competitive compensation package OR if the employee's net value is high and an equally good substitute will be difficult to find. In all other situations, #3 does seem the most sensible and least risky. If a company is inclined to #2, they can and probably should award the raise preemptively, before it has been asked for. Now, as an employee, if I suppose the company has thought all of this through, and they haven't preempted me with an offer of a raise, then I can infer that #2 is not among the possibilities. So I probably don't even need to ask for a raise. I should probably just look for other jobs and then when I get an offer I can find out if the company is going to take option 1 or option 3. As a big company, such as a Fortune 500, often a manager will want badly to retain an employee and would happily go for #2, even preemptively. But if the senior management (who never even sees that employee) does not share the manager's assessment of the employee's value or the manager's familiarity with the job market for that role, then they will not allow it. I've seen all of these cases occur. Happily, my current employer is happy to pursue option #2 for high-performing employees.

pzxc 8y ago
You forgot Response #4: Ok. I'll take your word for it; here's a raise. (Aside to other managers: this guy is a flight risk. Don't offer him any promotions, and start thinking about how we might replace him.) It happens. Not infrequently. It's why I never tell my employer when I get an offer. They might just give me the raise because it would hurt to lose me today but they can lose me in a couple months, and then the offer I had at the new company is long gone.
- mac01021 8y ago
  So, having received an offer that you're inclined to accept, you will never be swayed by a counteroffer from your current employer? I suppose the logic is sound, especially if you know you aren't hard to replace. I feel I need to at least go through the motion of entertaining the counteroffer, though. Otherwise they'll think I don't like them or be offended and I'll have maybe burnt a bridge. Of course, for the same reason, I was never looking for another job. That offer came to me on its own.
  - joezydeco 8y ago
    You need to think back as to what made you start job hunting in the first place. It didn’t happen spontaneously. Will a counteroffer change that situation?
    - finaliteration 8y ago
      I’m actually sort of in this situation. I just interviewed for another position and it went extremely well. The thing is I’m pretty happy with my current job and role except for one dimension: Salary. If they would pay me what the market says I’m worth (and I’ve done a ton of market research) then I’d be happy to stay where I am for the foreseeable future. But if another company offers me a job and the work and environment seem comparable but they’re willing to pay more... I’d seriously consider that offer and be prepared to leave. However, if my current employer comes back and says, “Actually we will beat that by x%” then I’d seriously consider staying. It also helps that someone else in the company did just this and is still with the company a couple years later.

rdiddly 8y ago

You should start charging a fee. JOaaS.

dsnuh 8y ago
>JOaaS. This was called "Craigslist Casual Encounters" I believe.
- rdiddly 8y ago
  Heh heh... I meant "job offer," not "jack off!"
  - dsnuh 8y ago
    I know, I couldn't resist. ;)

SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago

I work for BigCo and I see exact same thing on the other side. In fact, the #1 way I see good contractors get converted into full-time employees is when they get another job offer and threaten to leave.

rando444 8y ago

It's just playing your cards smart. If you're going to the negotiating table, it's best to be fully willing to walk away if your demands aren't met. If you don't have a backup plan in pocket, you're likely going to be willing to compromise when management tries to talk you down.

albacur 8y ago

This has typically been my experience. If I ask for a raise, my employer does not have the resources, their hands are tied, there’s absolutely nothing they can do. Then when I find another job, suddenly they find money, can match any offer, and will do whatever it takes to keep me. I used to take the raise, but not anymore. The employer has already lost trust by lying outright in its initial negotiation. They’ve made me jump through the hoops of a programmer interview process, and wasted my time, their time, and another company’s time, all on a gamble that I can’t or won’t get an attractive offer elsewhere. No thanks, I’ll take my chances elsewhere.

golergka 8y ago

Why is it sad? It's literally the labour market working it's best. If one of the developers that report to tell me that he deserves a higher salary and I woul find myself disagreeing with him, I would literally ask him to go out and get some offers, so instead of relying on our limited and biased understanding of the market, we would both rely on something more objective instead.