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What's really interesting to me is this same thing can be applied to adults too. The article writes: > For starters, he says, ask your kid this question: 'Wha

by nickjj 8y ago

What's really interesting to me is this same thing can be applied to adults too. The article writes: > For starters, he says, ask your kid this question: 'What would you do if you didn't have to do anything else?' I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living".

Filligree 8y ago
>I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living". Shorter. As much as I'd love to follow my heart, I also know that the things I find personally interesting aren't the same ones I'm good at. Alas, it's also in a field where only the very best make any money at all.
- abhiminator 8y ago
  I agree. What the invisible hand of the market and society at large value rarely align with what an individual values (and enjoys) -- a cosmic joke of the human condition imo.
- MrStonedOne 8y ago
  There was this old zenn diagram of the four factors to life that comes to mind. https://i.imgur.com/i52vIDj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/i52vIDj.jpg
  - ainar-g 8y ago
    Did you mean to write "Venn diagram", or this was the joke?
maltalex 8y ago
> I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living". I imagine we'd have an abundance of pilots, and actors and a severe lack of toilet cleaners.
- Forge36 8y ago
  I don't think it would be as extreme as a full career change. There exists a very large startup cost to becoming a pilot. I'd think to measure the number of people motivated to those as "failed actors", people who tried to make their career as an actor but eventually moved on to other things. Isn't that what we already have today?
- hutzlibu 8y ago
  "and a severe lack of toilet cleaners." not a problem because we probably would have selfcleaning toilets by then by default.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Toilets built by the underemployed pilots and actors? :)
    - herrokan 8y ago
      You know not everyone is interested in becoming a pilot or an actor, right?
      - Omnus 8y ago
        You know you're missing the point, right? There are some jobs that people just don't tend to enjoy or find meaningful. You can incentive people to do them by paying them lots of money, but that doesn't necessarily make people happy or fulfilled while doing the work, which was the original topic of this discussion.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    We already have some for public loos. They're somewhat terrifying cubicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fw9hxMCBdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fw9hxMCBdU
- Kluny 8y ago
  Personally I think there are more people than you think who would be perfectly happy to clean toilets as their contribution, so long as they were compensated fairly for it.
sandworm101 8y ago
Well, today is a national holiday for me but about a dozen of us have to be at work (long story). For the next three hours, short of an emergency situation, we have literally nothing to do. No cellphones, but half of us are playing X-box (not networked). The other half are surfing the web, two of those are trying to find a way to watch the world cup despite our security filters. I would much rather be walking a dog on a beach, or flying fighter jet. My point: what we want to do with our free time is constantly limited by current circumstance. Letting kids do whatever the want, within the limitation that it must happen inside the classroom, will inevitably result in X-box and we surfing. How about this: Give the kids a fire pit. I'd bet that most of them would rather learn how to start and maintain a fire than play x-box. I know I'd rather be chopping wood than sitting in an office chair. "Fire pits and power tools good for preschoolers" https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/little-kids/preschool/94968635/fire-pits-and-power-tools-good-for-kids-at-kindy--australian-study https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/little-kids/pre... I've met US teenagers who don't know how to use matches.
- _Microft 8y ago
  Have you tried reading or learning? I've always a book in my bag for unexpected breaks. Depending on the topic or book, you can easily go from something else to reading and back to work. A month ago there was a thread about the "one book that changed your life": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17168136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17168136 I read Mindset by Carol Dweck since then and found it very interesting (and applicable to some parts of my life and behaviour).
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    >> Have you tried reading or learning? Lol. When I was at basic training (Canadian military) we of course didn't have cellphones or computers, but were allowed books. The image burned into my mind is of my platoon on a rainy day in the woods. Everyone is in camo/weapons, huddled together to keep warm while waiting for a truck … reading game of thrones. Those novels were better protected from rain/mud than any weapon. I have a dozen projects that I could be working on. But it is a Sunday. Canada day. Tomorrow is also a holiday. The bosses aren’t here. Other than us and the guards, the building is empty. Nobody is in the mood for the never-ending stream of online courses we are supposed to work on in our free time. It is Xbox and the web until quitting time.
Forge36 8y ago
As in asking the question to other adults or to asking it of one's self? If the first: I agree, it would be interesting to see the changes. Would we see more of Google's 20% time? If of one's self: I think many do. I don't think the change would be as large. I already see many people spend their time on projects they are interested in. And I've seen that work be discouraged in favor of the assigned tasks/priorities. That discouragement can lead to a negative feedback loop of discouraging others.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
There wouldn’t be civilization, we’d all die pretty quickly at the hunter/gatherer stage.
- wolco 8y ago
  People will move on from what they want now and want to impress people. What better way than give meat to the village. That may lead to a marriage with the elder's daughter.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Eh, that’s why we work on what we don’t want to for money now.
mhb 8y ago
Is this really so hard to figure out? Very few people would do things which are useful to keep civilization running if they have a choice. Look at what people do with their leisure time - watch commercial TV, play video games, look at nonsense on Facebook. It wouldn't be pretty.
- irrational 8y ago
  Yeah, I'd spend all day every day just reading.
- nickjj 8y ago
  I don't think it would be as bad as you think. If you wanted to remain living in your ideal world, you would make adjustments to your life for the sole purpose of maintaining your lifestyle instead of just thinking "meh, someone else will do it". I have to think if this were built into how we lived for hundreds of generations, then your mindset would even change from "maintaining my lifestyle" to "this is what we do to keep everyone happy". I'm not a hardcore socialist either. I'm almost the opposite. I like the idea that if someone puts in a lot of effort, they should have a lot of success. I have no sympathy for people who want to just watch TV and expect to be carried by society. But, at the same time, I would much rather live in a world where everyone was happy doing what they love, and everything just worked out without the concept of money.
  - saiya-jin 8y ago
    The world you describe, that's the problem with all those wishful thinking like communism. Just a tiny detail, like 'if people wouldn't be selfish but work for greater good', and all would be better. On that I agree. Where we would probably disagree is how realistic this is - to me, on truly global scale (not some isolated ie swiss/swedish experiment but places with properly f*cked up work mentality and life attitude like russia or any post-war country), it's very, very far from reality. I won't live long enough to see even a glimpse of what we discuus. Not that it makes me anyhow happy, but it's important to have a realistic view on important variables. Everybody has a dark side. I've seen even the best and brightest and hard workers to slack badly once they lose motivation, ie changing jobs. Better have a system that accepts these flaws and still extracts value for society even in non-ideal way, rather than working with some ideal human being that is simply not out there.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wallflower 8y ago
> What would you do if you didn't have to do anything else?' Marshall Brain's "Manna" is an interesting exploration of this question. http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
lgregg 8y ago
You should look at GORE as an organization. [0] They work closely to this idea of contributions to their organization. [0] https://medium.com/swlh/get-3-billion-big-by-staying-small-part-ii-10f7b27cc5a4 https://medium.com/swlh/get-3-billion-big-by-staying-small-p... (There are a few articles linked throughout with a significant source list at the bottom of the article.)
zyxwvu 8y ago
Made me think of this qoute: " I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

by nickjj 8y ago

Filligree 8y ago

>I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living". Shorter. As much as I'd love to follow my heart, I also know that the things I find personally interesting aren't the same ones I'm good at. Alas, it's also in a field where only the very best make any money at all.

abhiminator 8y ago
I agree. What the invisible hand of the market and society at large value rarely align with what an individual values (and enjoys) -- a cosmic joke of the human condition imo.
MrStonedOne 8y ago
There was this old zenn diagram of the four factors to life that comes to mind. https://i.imgur.com/i52vIDj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/i52vIDj.jpg
- ainar-g 8y ago
  Did you mean to write "Venn diagram", or this was the joke?

maltalex 8y ago

> I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living". I imagine we'd have an abundance of pilots, and actors and a severe lack of toilet cleaners.

Forge36 8y ago
I don't think it would be as extreme as a full career change. There exists a very large startup cost to becoming a pilot. I'd think to measure the number of people motivated to those as "failed actors", people who tried to make their career as an actor but eventually moved on to other things. Isn't that what we already have today?
hutzlibu 8y ago
"and a severe lack of toilet cleaners." not a problem because we probably would have selfcleaning toilets by then by default.
- oblio 8y ago
  Toilets built by the underemployed pilots and actors? :)
  - herrokan 8y ago
    You know not everyone is interested in becoming a pilot or an actor, right?
    - Omnus 8y ago
      You know you're missing the point, right? There are some jobs that people just don't tend to enjoy or find meaningful. You can incentive people to do them by paying them lots of money, but that doesn't necessarily make people happy or fulfilled while doing the work, which was the original topic of this discussion.
- DanBC 8y ago
  We already have some for public loos. They're somewhat terrifying cubicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fw9hxMCBdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fw9hxMCBdU
Kluny 8y ago
Personally I think there are more people than you think who would be perfectly happy to clean toilets as their contribution, so long as they were compensated fairly for it.

sandworm101 8y ago

Well, today is a national holiday for me but about a dozen of us have to be at work (long story). For the next three hours, short of an emergency situation, we have literally nothing to do. No cellphones, but half of us are playing X-box (not networked). The other half are surfing the web, two of those are trying to find a way to watch the world cup despite our security filters. I would much rather be walking a dog on a beach, or flying fighter jet. My point: what we want to do with our free time is constantly limited by current circumstance. Letting kids do whatever the want, within the limitation that it must happen inside the classroom, will inevitably result in X-box and we surfing. How about this: Give the kids a fire pit. I'd bet that most of them would rather learn how to start and maintain a fire than play x-box. I know I'd rather be chopping wood than sitting in an office chair. "Fire pits and power tools good for preschoolers" https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/little-kids/preschool/94968635/fire-pits-and-power-tools-good-for-kids-at-kindy--australian-study https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/little-kids/pre... I've met US teenagers who don't know how to use matches.

_Microft 8y ago
Have you tried reading or learning? I've always a book in my bag for unexpected breaks. Depending on the topic or book, you can easily go from something else to reading and back to work. A month ago there was a thread about the "one book that changed your life": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17168136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17168136 I read Mindset by Carol Dweck since then and found it very interesting (and applicable to some parts of my life and behaviour).
- sandworm101 8y ago
  >> Have you tried reading or learning? Lol. When I was at basic training (Canadian military) we of course didn't have cellphones or computers, but were allowed books. The image burned into my mind is of my platoon on a rainy day in the woods. Everyone is in camo/weapons, huddled together to keep warm while waiting for a truck … reading game of thrones. Those novels were better protected from rain/mud than any weapon. I have a dozen projects that I could be working on. But it is a Sunday. Canada day. Tomorrow is also a holiday. The bosses aren’t here. Other than us and the guards, the building is empty. Nobody is in the mood for the never-ending stream of online courses we are supposed to work on in our free time. It is Xbox and the web until quitting time.

Forge36 8y ago

As in asking the question to other adults or to asking it of one's self? If the first: I agree, it would be interesting to see the changes. Would we see more of Google's 20% time? If of one's self: I think many do. I don't think the change would be as large. I already see many people spend their time on projects they are interested in. And I've seen that work be discouraged in favor of the assigned tasks/priorities. That discouragement can lead to a negative feedback loop of discouraging others.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

There wouldn’t be civilization, we’d all die pretty quickly at the hunter/gatherer stage.

wolco 8y ago
People will move on from what they want now and want to impress people. What better way than give meat to the village. That may lead to a marriage with the elder's daughter.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Eh, that’s why we work on what we don’t want to for money now.

mhb 8y ago

Is this really so hard to figure out? Very few people would do things which are useful to keep civilization running if they have a choice. Look at what people do with their leisure time - watch commercial TV, play video games, look at nonsense on Facebook. It wouldn't be pretty.

irrational 8y ago
Yeah, I'd spend all day every day just reading.
nickjj 8y ago
I don't think it would be as bad as you think. If you wanted to remain living in your ideal world, you would make adjustments to your life for the sole purpose of maintaining your lifestyle instead of just thinking "meh, someone else will do it". I have to think if this were built into how we lived for hundreds of generations, then your mindset would even change from "maintaining my lifestyle" to "this is what we do to keep everyone happy". I'm not a hardcore socialist either. I'm almost the opposite. I like the idea that if someone puts in a lot of effort, they should have a lot of success. I have no sympathy for people who want to just watch TV and expect to be carried by society. But, at the same time, I would much rather live in a world where everyone was happy doing what they love, and everything just worked out without the concept of money.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  The world you describe, that's the problem with all those wishful thinking like communism. Just a tiny detail, like 'if people wouldn't be selfish but work for greater good', and all would be better. On that I agree. Where we would probably disagree is how realistic this is - to me, on truly global scale (not some isolated ie swiss/swedish experiment but places with properly f*cked up work mentality and life attitude like russia or any post-war country), it's very, very far from reality. I won't live long enough to see even a glimpse of what we discuus. Not that it makes me anyhow happy, but it's important to have a realistic view on important variables. Everybody has a dark side. I've seen even the best and brightest and hard workers to slack badly once they lose motivation, ie changing jobs. Better have a system that accepts these flaws and still extracts value for society even in non-ideal way, rather than working with some ideal human being that is simply not out there.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

wallflower 8y ago

> What would you do if you didn't have to do anything else?' Marshall Brain's "Manna" is an interesting exploration of this question. http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

lgregg 8y ago

You should look at GORE as an organization. [0] They work closely to this idea of contributions to their organization. [0] https://medium.com/swlh/get-3-billion-big-by-staying-small-part-ii-10f7b27cc5a4 https://medium.com/swlh/get-3-billion-big-by-staying-small-p... (There are a few articles linked throughout with a significant source list at the bottom of the article.)

zyxwvu 8y ago

Made me think of this qoute: " I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould