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Facebook has nothing to do with Sin Ma Kaw having anti-Muslim laws, and Muslim free areas have been instituted by the Burmese army all over Myanmar since at lea

Facebook has nothing to do with Sin Ma Kaw having anti-Muslim laws, and Muslim free areas have been instituted by the Burmese army all over Myanmar since at least 2012. Ethnic cleansing and ethno-religious conflict with Rohingya has been happening and accelerating since before Facebook existed. Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar. There’s also no evidence Facebook pulled Free Basics because of media pressure. Commercial reasons are obvious. Burmese now have a much larger mobile internet and phone market with better penetration, so Facebook doesn’t gain as much now.

kennxfl 8y ago
It's true. What is seen of Facebook in that region is a reflection of the underlying social sentiment. However, there are a lot of people especially kids who form their beliefs based on what is popular in these platforms from adults.
- furgooswft13 8y ago
  > However, there are a lot of people especially kids who form their beliefs based on what is popular in these platforms from adults. Correct. And all this action does is let Facebook remove their name from the whole mess. What I wonder is, will anyone in western media care anymore once we can't involve ourselves in the story. There's local genocides going on all over the world that have nothing to do with tech's current favorite clickbait punching bag. I'm sure we could invoke past colonialism or some such to prove again how we are culpable for all the worlds ills. But lets just face it, people suck. Now excuse me while I go watch some inspirational TNG Picard speeches about evolved humanity. Only another 45 years until warp drive is invented and world peace rapidly ensues!
testplzignore 8y ago
> they don’t gain as much now This is what I'm thinking, too. They've already gotten what they wanted - market penetration for little cost. They get a few million "low-hanging fruit" users hooked on their product, then shift their spending somewhere else when costs increase. I think media pressure is part of it, but only because media pressure can lead the local government kicking them out of the market entirely, especially in countries with internet censorship.
bilbo0s 8y ago
"...Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar..." It's not the widespread hatred of Muslims that's putting pressure on facebook. It's the widespread killing of muslims that's putting pressure on facebook. No one would mind if it was just a giant bunch of idiots hating each other. In fact, we have that in the US. The difference is that as soon as you start offing people the situation begins to be viewed in a significantly different fashion. There was the very real possibility that the government was going to ask facebook to leave. (Truth be told, this move by facebook may prove to be unequal to the government's desires. So in the end facebook may still be shown the door.)
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  The widespread killing (and other abuses) of Rohingya is done by the Burmese Army as part of offensives against the independence armies in Rakhine state, not by people who read anti-muslim posts on FB and then go out and murder people. Burmese people (and UN, international press, etc.) aren't even allowed in the areas where the Rohingya crisis is happening! So no Facebook does not have much to do with it. Really.
  - packet_nerd 8y ago
    Actually, more often than not, it is exactly the people who are reading the anti-muslim posts (and other forms of media, online and off) and then going out fueling the violence. When I was in the country there were riots and anti Muslim mobs accross the country, and they were both fueled by and contributed to the widespread atmosphere of hatred and revenge. And in Rakhine state the violence started with riots and mobs, not primarily the military. The Rohingya uprising was just a response to what must be a feeling of helplessness and desperation. They want to be treated fairly, but with the current political and social climate that's not going to happen.
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      Well, at least Aung San Suu Kyi won a Nobel Peace Prize.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar Funny, the same argument was used by colonists to justify their explorations.
- notahacker 8y ago
  I don't think Zuckerberg is trying to stir up existing ethnic hatreds in order to seize the oil wells and install a new Burmese government that does his bidding...
  - throwaway2048 8y ago
    No, the result of them being stired up is him making truckloads of money instead, how much more noble.
azernik 8y ago
> Ethnic cleansing and ethno-religious conflict with Rohingya has been happening and accelerating since before Facebook existed. Just because the problem existed before Facebook doesn't mean Facebook is completely free of responsibility. It amplifies existing prejudices in those echo-chambers we know so well from American politics; and it provides practical help to the organization of "grassroots" violence. From this New York Times article on the similar Sri Lankan situation: > “We don’t completely blame Facebook,” said Harindra Dissanayake, a presidential adviser in Sri Lanka. “The germs are ours, but Facebook is the wind, you know?”
- djohnston 8y ago
  this argument can be made for any piece of technology humanity has ever invented
  - trhway 8y ago
    The argument isn't about technology. The argument is about knowingly letting and abetting a genocide with your technology.
  - aspaceman 8y ago
    which is precisely why those who create technology must consider how it will be used.
    - shrimp_emoji 8y ago
      Yes. Roads can service vehicles used by terrorists or invading armies. Roads are a necessary evil that should be heavily moderated, and any road makers must be held accountable to who uses their roads.
      - azernik 8y ago
        Exactly. To build a private road you need government cooperation, there are usually special arrangements for policing roads, governments pay (traffic engineers to pay) attention to the systemic effects of adding roads, etc.
packet_nerd 8y ago
> Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar. This is true, unfortanatly. I lived in the Ayeyarwady Delta from 2010 - 2014, and saw a level of hatred that was very hard for me to understand. Facebook didn't really start to take off (at least in the rural area I was in) until the end of that period. I was at a community event were a DVD of mostly raw footage from the violence in Rakine, South Thailand, and I think a few other places, was shown. It was set to a pounding rock soundtrack, and intersperse with fiery Bhuddist monks preaching against Muslims. It had the most horrific shocking footage I'd ever seen or immagined and left me with nightmares for years afterwards. I'll spare you the details. The room was full of regular village people, elders, and children, cheering it on as if it was a football match. They told me that while the army was still in power, they would have cracked down on these DVDs, but when I was there you could freely buy them on any street corner. Anyway, my country (the US) and other places have been through this kind of hatred (more or less) in the past too, and we overcame it. I hope that the people of Myanmar can too.
tiatia123 8y ago
"Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar." Shocking. No idea where this could come from. But being from Europe and seeing how Muslim behave here, it might be an excellent idea!

kennxfl 8y ago

It's true. What is seen of Facebook in that region is a reflection of the underlying social sentiment. However, there are a lot of people especially kids who form their beliefs based on what is popular in these platforms from adults.

furgooswft13 8y ago
> However, there are a lot of people especially kids who form their beliefs based on what is popular in these platforms from adults. Correct. And all this action does is let Facebook remove their name from the whole mess. What I wonder is, will anyone in western media care anymore once we can't involve ourselves in the story. There's local genocides going on all over the world that have nothing to do with tech's current favorite clickbait punching bag. I'm sure we could invoke past colonialism or some such to prove again how we are culpable for all the worlds ills. But lets just face it, people suck. Now excuse me while I go watch some inspirational TNG Picard speeches about evolved humanity. Only another 45 years until warp drive is invented and world peace rapidly ensues!

testplzignore 8y ago

> they don’t gain as much now This is what I'm thinking, too. They've already gotten what they wanted - market penetration for little cost. They get a few million "low-hanging fruit" users hooked on their product, then shift their spending somewhere else when costs increase. I think media pressure is part of it, but only because media pressure can lead the local government kicking them out of the market entirely, especially in countries with internet censorship.

bilbo0s 8y ago

"...Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar..." It's not the widespread hatred of Muslims that's putting pressure on facebook. It's the widespread killing of muslims that's putting pressure on facebook. No one would mind if it was just a giant bunch of idiots hating each other. In fact, we have that in the US. The difference is that as soon as you start offing people the situation begins to be viewed in a significantly different fashion. There was the very real possibility that the government was going to ask facebook to leave. (Truth be told, this move by facebook may prove to be unequal to the government's desires. So in the end facebook may still be shown the door.)

simplecomplex 8y ago
The widespread killing (and other abuses) of Rohingya is done by the Burmese Army as part of offensives against the independence armies in Rakhine state, not by people who read anti-muslim posts on FB and then go out and murder people. Burmese people (and UN, international press, etc.) aren't even allowed in the areas where the Rohingya crisis is happening! So no Facebook does not have much to do with it. Really.
- packet_nerd 8y ago
  Actually, more often than not, it is exactly the people who are reading the anti-muslim posts (and other forms of media, online and off) and then going out fueling the violence. When I was in the country there were riots and anti Muslim mobs accross the country, and they were both fueled by and contributed to the widespread atmosphere of hatred and revenge. And in Rakhine state the violence started with riots and mobs, not primarily the military. The Rohingya uprising was just a response to what must be a feeling of helplessness and desperation. They want to be treated fairly, but with the current political and social climate that's not going to happen.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    Well, at least Aung San Suu Kyi won a Nobel Peace Prize.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar Funny, the same argument was used by colonists to justify their explorations.

notahacker 8y ago
I don't think Zuckerberg is trying to stir up existing ethnic hatreds in order to seize the oil wells and install a new Burmese government that does his bidding...
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  No, the result of them being stired up is him making truckloads of money instead, how much more noble.

azernik 8y ago

> Ethnic cleansing and ethno-religious conflict with Rohingya has been happening and accelerating since before Facebook existed. Just because the problem existed before Facebook doesn't mean Facebook is completely free of responsibility. It amplifies existing prejudices in those echo-chambers we know so well from American politics; and it provides practical help to the organization of "grassroots" violence. From this New York Times article on the similar Sri Lankan situation: > “We don’t completely blame Facebook,” said Harindra Dissanayake, a presidential adviser in Sri Lanka. “The germs are ours, but Facebook is the wind, you know?”

djohnston 8y ago
this argument can be made for any piece of technology humanity has ever invented
- trhway 8y ago
  The argument isn't about technology. The argument is about knowingly letting and abetting a genocide with your technology.
- aspaceman 8y ago
  which is precisely why those who create technology must consider how it will be used.
  - shrimp_emoji 8y ago
    Yes. Roads can service vehicles used by terrorists or invading armies. Roads are a necessary evil that should be heavily moderated, and any road makers must be held accountable to who uses their roads.
    - azernik 8y ago
      Exactly. To build a private road you need government cooperation, there are usually special arrangements for policing roads, governments pay (traffic engineers to pay) attention to the systemic effects of adding roads, etc.

packet_nerd 8y ago

> Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar. This is true, unfortanatly. I lived in the Ayeyarwady Delta from 2010 - 2014, and saw a level of hatred that was very hard for me to understand. Facebook didn't really start to take off (at least in the rural area I was in) until the end of that period. I was at a community event were a DVD of mostly raw footage from the violence in Rakine, South Thailand, and I think a few other places, was shown. It was set to a pounding rock soundtrack, and intersperse with fiery Bhuddist monks preaching against Muslims. It had the most horrific shocking footage I'd ever seen or immagined and left me with nightmares for years afterwards. I'll spare you the details. The room was full of regular village people, elders, and children, cheering it on as if it was a football match. They told me that while the army was still in power, they would have cracked down on these DVDs, but when I was there you could freely buy them on any street corner. Anyway, my country (the US) and other places have been through this kind of hatred (more or less) in the past too, and we overcame it. I hope that the people of Myanmar can too.

tiatia123 8y ago

"Widespread hatred for Muslims existed long before widespread usage of Facebook in Myanmar." Shocking. No idea where this could come from. But being from Europe and seeing how Muslim behave here, it might be an excellent idea!