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Researchers Find Herpes Viruses in Brains Marked by Alzheimer's Disease
- polskibus 8y agoText only version https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=621908340 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=621908340
- anoncoward111 8y agoOh, my god. Is there a browser extension or a third party website or anything out there that does this for all websites? I haven't had much luck, but that's partially because some sites have chosen to make themselves unusable without javascript enabled. NPR, thank you for this subdomain <3
- astura 8y ago"Reader Mode" is built into Firefox. (Dunno about chrome, I don't use that) There is also https://outline.com https://outline.com
- 52-6F-62 8y ago+1 for Outline
- anoncoward111 8y agoYou have no idea how helpful this is to me right now. I am in Chile on the most abominably slow pre-paid cell phone connection. I'm reading this from the mountains as we speak Thank you so much
- aaronharnly 8y agoPut the phone down! :-)
- anoncoward111 8y agoBut I need to take photos like this! [1] We have service here, believe it or not. There's even wifi at 9,000ft in elevation. We're at 13,000 feet right now https://imgur.com/ZWOC3Bd https://imgur.com/ZWOC3Bd
- _Microft 8y agoIf Firefox does not offer the reader mode button/icon for a page, you can still use it using this: about:reader?url=<insert url here>
- polskibus 8y agoI only learned about it from their GDPR notice. I declined tracking permission and they gave me the best version ever!
- tneuont34ntent 8y agoSafari's "Reader Mode" also does this.
- anoncoward111 8y agoThank you, unfortunately I don't have an iToy anymore, the battery exploded :*(
- wsc981 8y agoYou can also automatically enable "Reader Mode" for a single domain or all domains by pressing the reader mode button for like 2 seconds. Which is something I just recently discovered. I like this feature a lot on my iPhone. It can also be automatically enabled on macOS in the same way.
- russh 8y agoThanks, this is useful to me.
- jonhendry18 8y agoIt is also often useful to get rid of the "you've used up your 10 articles for the month" messages that obscure article text.
- ekianjo 8y ago> They also found that these Alzheimer's risk genes seem to make a person's brain more vulnerable to infection with the two herpes viruses. If that is the case, people predisposed for Alzheimer will naturally have more herpes virus in the brain - does not seem like viruses are anywhere near the root cause of Alzheimer's.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- protocode 8y agoThis reminds me of a line from one of Eddie Murphy's comedy routines back in the 80s: "Herpes is like luggage; you keep that s--t forever."
- virusduck 8y agoThis is not surprising. At least one study [1] showed 85% of people's brains are PCR-positive for at least HHV-6. It is also important to keep in mind that herpesviruses have evolved with us (and many other species) and in some ways are considered part of our normal flora. They may also play an important role in the proper development of our immune system. The data in this paper is suggestive (and complicated!!), but there is no convincing mechanism for the virus having anything to do with the development of Alzheimers. The real virology here will be very hard. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11285567 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11285567
- chasil 8y agoPeople commonly take acyclovir for simplex 1 & 2. Does that suppress this virus? Can any of these common drugs pass the blood-brain barrier? Might other herpes strains be involved? Zoster (chicken pox)? Epstein-Barr (mono)? Kaposi's Sarcoma/HHV8?
- trendia 8y agoAcyclovir improves outcomes in HSV encephalitis [0], but does not completely cure it or prevent long-term damage in all patients. The worst side effect of encephalitis is memory impairment: > The most common and most disabling complication of herpes simplex encephalitis in our patients, and in other studies,9 10 20-24 was memory impairment, which especially affected short term memory. Occasionally remote memory is more severely affected than anterograde memory. [0] https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/63/3/321 https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/63/3/321
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- virusduck 8y agoDon't forget Cytomegalovirus (CMV, or HHV-5)! (Also, the zoster/chickenpox virus is calle Varicella-zoster virus (VZV or HHV-3). Since there is no proposed mechanism for how the virus may be involved, there is no way to know if acyclovir, cidofovir, or any nucleoside analog might help. These drugs only really help to stop actively replicating viruses (lytic viruses). Most of the herpesvirus life cycle is spent in "latency" where it only exists as a piece of DNA (some, like HHV6/7 may integrate into the host chromosome, others like HSV-1/HHV-1 and EBV/HHV-4 maintain their genome as a separate molecule). During this period, there are few, if any, genes made, but in some cases, those genes may be important to disease pathogenesis. The role of herpesviruses in latency-associated diseases is very complicated, and is also dependent on host genetics.
- dkural 8y agoPeople with Alzheimer's seem to have more things in their brain that shouldn't be there than normal. Past findings include types of immune cells that shouldn't be there, various yeast, other types of virus etc. It's not clear if all those are there due to the blood-brain barrier loosing structural integrity, or those cause Alzheimer's in the first place.
- craftyguy 8y agoClassic example of correlation != causation.
- theothermkn 8y ago> In other news, Alzheimer's patients breathe oxygen and drink water. Beware! This very remark undermines your snark. We clearly would not look at 'breathes air" or 'drinks water,' precisely because these are factors that are common in the population between those who do and those who do not develop Alzheimer's. It is, in fact, the very fact that the factors that the grandparent mentioned "don't belong in the brain" that is interesting, and suggestive of models other than, for example, "Alzheimer's is an isolated, simple condition that is relatively unaffected by confounds." It is these very same correlations that can lead us to the likely rocks to turn over, and that is where the newsworthiness and interest derives. Everybody knows about correlation and causation. It's possibly not causative, for example, but seems to be correlative that people who snark about correlation and causation tend to shoot themselves in the feet with their sarcasm. I sure know where I'll look for a deeper explanation, though!
- pishpash 8y agoMaybe people get dumber with age not because of age but because they've started getting STI's in the brain.
- jey 8y agoThis is Roseola, not Herpes Simplex.
- pishpash 8y agoThis is also talking Alzheimers, not general mental decline. I'm just throwing out a wild thought stemming from this article.
- sctb 8y agoWe've asked you a number of times to please make your comments thoughtful and informative. If you won't, we'll ban the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pishpash 8y agoRespectfully, which rule is at issue here?
- sctb 8y agoThis site is for substantive, intellectually interesting discussion. The guidelines aren't rules (or else that's what they'd be called), they're there to help guide us in that direction. When commenters repeatedly post unsubstantive comments from which we don't stand to learn anything, that's not using the site as intended. If there isn't any insight in your comment, don't post it.
- pishpash 8y agoNot arguing with this, albeit subjective, logic, just trying to understand what's going on in this instance. How should I have expressed the insight that, "Even prior to Alzheimers, getting mentally limited as we age might be a result of an accumulation of viruses in the brain, some of which might be obtained through sexual exposure?" -- except more succinctly? I am still not sure what is objectionable in this comment. I post in good faith, and I expect especially the mods will uphold the guideline to read a comment in the strongest plausible interpretation.
- coldnose 8y ago>> "We mapped out the social network, if you will, of which genes the viruses are friends with and who they're talking to inside the brain," Dudley says. In essence, he says, they wanted to know: "If the viruses are tweeting, who's tweeting back?" Finally, a relatable metaphor for millennials like me!
- russdill 8y agoStuff like this always reminds me of: https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2010/02/when-science-goes-wrong https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2010/02/when-science-goe... I'm guessing they are being as careful as they can in regards to selection bias.
- mamon 8y agoOfftopic: after declining GDPR consents I was redirected to text only version of the page: https://text.npr.org/ https://text.npr.org/
- justinclift 8y agoSame here. Personally, I kind of prefer the text only version. :)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dghughes 8y agoAs someone who gets cold sores this worries me. I know when I am super stressed because a cold sore will begin to appear on my lip. It's always there but stress allows it to replicate, all parts of my immune system are not able to cope during stressful events. I hope this doesn't mean I'm at risk for Alzheimer's disease. At least it's now known when people sleep it clears out beta-amyloid proteins in their brains. Not a cure but at least it's good to know sleep helps flush out the bad stuff. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flush-out-toxins-during-sleep https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flus...
- vedtopkar 8y agoNote that these results describe the presence of HHV-6 and HHV-7, which cause roseola. Herpes simplex is HSV-1 and HSV-2, which cause cold sores and genital herpes, respectively.
- dghughes 8y agoAh thanks, good to know.
- codezero 8y agoI don't know your situation, but if you don't already, you should get an RX for Valtrex or some other anti-viral. You can usually take it _before_ the cold sore appears if you can tell it's about to (swelling, stress, etc...) – and it can and often entirely suppresses the external appearance for most people.
- ztjio 8y agoDude, that seems insane to me. Maybe you haven’t ever dived into the possible side effects of anti virals. But maybe you should? The risk/reward ratio of such a drug for cold sores is extremely poor.
- throwawayj90 8y agoAre we thinking of the same drug? Because Valtrex is pretty safe as long as your kidneys are normal and you drink enough water every day. I take 500 mg daily to prevent 5 to 10 (at least!) cold sores per year. My quality of life is so much higher with this drug (imagine not being able to be intimate on like half of all your dates...) For people like me who get cold sores at the drop of a hat (or shaving or even a sharp cold breeze), it’s a fine risk, and I’d even be willing to risk more.
- shusson 8y agoThe study referenced in the article says they found HHV-6 in normal brains but there was "increased HHV-6A and HHV-7 in brains of subjects with Alzheimer’s disease" [1]. So I would say that is surprising and worth noting. [1] https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30421-5 https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30421-5
- jacquesm 8y agoIt may be worth noting but it also could very easily be a mistake of identifying an effect as a cause. Once the body is unhealthy all kinds of organisms use that opportunity to stake a claim.
- XalvinX 8y agoGreat point. Healthy people (or any other life form) do not suddenly get sick and die. I think this is a major issue with the entire system of Western medicine. Instead of focussing on healthy diet, lifestyle, exercise, managing stress, the system just wants to identify certain 'germs' and give pills that are supposed to kill those 'germs'... As I understand it, licensed physicians in the US, even after like 12 years of higher education, never even study nutrition...what could possibly be more fundamental to human health than the food you eat?? Refreshing to see a comment like jacquesm made here.
- Herodotus38 8y agoYour understanding is incorrect in that Nutrition is included in medical education, although you are right in that it isn't much. There is a saying in medical education that med profs often like to quote: "Half of what we teach you will be wrong in four years, the problem is we don't know which half" When I was in medical school we were just emerging from the 'fat is bad', towards what I see now as a more 'carbs are bad' (this is a dumb oversimplification but I think sums up the trends). Thumbing through my 2001 copy of 'Harrison's Internal Medicine' there is just a 40 page section on nutrition (out of 2600 pages), and most of that is on various forms of malnourishment (rickets, scurvy, etc...) The biggest problem with studying what is good nutrition is that it is really hard to control what people eat in a randomized study and there are so many confounders when you try to look at retrospective studies on healthy populations (for example, 7th Day Adventists live longer, is it because of the diet, or because of community, etc...?)
- code51 8y agoSomeone noted (vedtopkar) these are "HHV-6 and HHV-7, which cause roseola". Note that it's an incredibly common infection in babies. There's also another study investigating association between HHV-6 and measles virus serology and brain antibody in autism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9756729 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9756729 Reading these studies makes me think an ineffective blood-brain barrier or a brain-specific defence might trigger common viruses to present a wider family of brain-related diseases. We also know there is literature on encephalitis caused by both HHV-6 and measles. I'm speculating that even in a micro, benign form, this condition is enough the shake brain structure. We should probably investigate a more complex but more generic model of brain diseases.
- Gibbon1 8y ago> measles virus serology Potentially topical oddball thing I learned while looking up something on measles. About 1 in 10000 people[1] that contact measles go on to develop subacute sclerosing panencephalitis[2] 6 to 15 years later. While results in brain deterioration and death. [1] Might be 10X higher. [2] Obligatory Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_panencephalitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacute_sclerosing_panencepha...
- newnewpdro 8y agoIt always struck me as odd how accepting everyone was of the inevitability and benign-ness of chickenpox. Even though we know the virus is still present after the rash, it seemed strange to me how it was assumed no less visible effects were occurring. HPV is another which I found odd how little importance was placed on preventing its spread growing up. Even today we're still selective about the immunization of people against this virus, knowing it's responsible for most occurrences of cervical cancer. I suspect we'll almost certainly learn something less obvious about herpes of comparable importance to HPVs role in cervical cancer.
- dbt00 8y agoSpent a month with shingles. Chicken pox is satan, y'all.
- rl3 8y ago>It always struck me as odd how accepting everyone was of the inevitability and benign-ness of chickenpox. Funny enough, genital Varicella Zoster (chicken pox) is a thing. Somewhat rare since most people already contract the virus at a different site during childhood, but it happens. It even presents very similar to a normal HSV-1/2 genital infection since it is also a herpesvirus.
- known 8y agoScientists have engineered a version of Herpes virus that can kill cancer cells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talimogene_laherparepvec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talimogene_laherparepvec