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The article is trying to make the traveler feel guilty when to me the burden falls on local governments of these tourist destinations. If there's an impending e

The article is trying to make the traveler feel guilty when to me the burden falls on local governments of these tourist destinations. If there's an impending ecological disaster isn't it in their best interest to have more regulations, eg by increasing fines/citations, limiting visas, increasing prices, etc? If AirBnB is displacing local residents then ban the service, many cities have started to do so. If the mangroves are being destroyed then disallow tourism to that area. Easier said than done of course since tourism is often driving the economy and everyone wants to make a quick buck.

ImaCake 8y ago
Why can't it go both ways? Tourists can make a conscious effort to put their rubbish in the bin and learn how to say "please" and "thanks" locally. I hike frequently, so simply by going to a national park I harm the environment there. But I also pay for park passes which help fund those parks, and I refrain from littering and wandering off the track.
- trevor-e 8y ago
  I'm sure most people try to put their rubbish in the bin if there are empty bins available. I've found most places are dirty because they don't have the infrastructure built for disposing of trash/recyclables, not that people are trying to be evil.
  - timr 8y ago
    "I've found most places are dirty because they don't have the infrastructure built for disposing of trash/recyclables, not that people are trying to be evil." If the local culture is to carry your trash with you, the "right" thing to do is to adapt yourself to that culture, not the other way around. You're a guest. But yes, you're factually correct: if cities don't do this, far too many tourists will just toss their trash anywhere they please.
    - 8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago
      I find it really hard to believe that the majority of a garbage crisis is caused by tourists "tossing their trash wherever" -- after all, underdeveloped countries have problems with trash even in places where tourists are rare. I'm certain a big part of the issue are the services that tourism creates a demand for, and their waste for which there are no easy solutions when the infrastructure is not there. Setting up proper infra in place is really the local administration's job.
      - timr 8y ago
        "I find it really hard to believe that the majority of a garbage crisis is caused by tourists 'tossing their trash wherever'" Nobody said anything about a "garbage crisis". The comment that started this thread was that if you're in a foreign country, you shouldn't litter and you should learn how to say please and thank you in the local tongue. The fact that people are arguing about this subject is telling. Never in my life have I said "oh, there are no trash cans here. I guess I can just toss my litter anywhere because the local officials didn't plan properly for my presence."
        trevor-e 8y ago
        That's quite the twist of my words. The only point I was trying to make is that places with large amounts of tourism should plan accordingly if they want to keep clean. Individuals are still at fault obviously, but there is plenty that can be done to make things better for everyone when dealing with trash at scale.
jopsen 8y ago
Indeed local governments have a massive responsibility.. But if hotel prices, etc goes up too much and regulation becomes too strong there is a risk the travel agencies will send tourists somewhere cheaper. Just saying the consumer is already traveling, they could travel somewhere else. That said, small efforts would probably go far.
GavinMcG 8y ago
It's really only an issue for you once there's already an impending disaster, and even then the responsibility doesn't lie with those that did the damage?! That's hard to swallow, for me. Do people have no moral obligations, in your view? Is life only about the power to push back against something one doesn't like, rather than some deeper commitment to what is right and good?
- koboll 8y ago
  >and even then the responsibility doesn't lie with those that did the damage?! Doesn't responsibility for a rising teen birthrate lie with the teens? Doesn't responsibility for an opioid epidemic lie with users and traffickers? Doesn't responsibility for gridlock lie with drivers? In a sense, yes, but realistically, this kind of collective action problem can only be solved at scale by governments. Telling Americans "STOP TRAVELING" will be about as effective as telling drug lords "STOP TRAFFICKING".
  - GavinMcG 8y ago
    I agree that the collective action problem is solved by government, and that these problems are of that sort. It's just that the language of "but... the burden falls on local governments" makes it sound as though that pragmatic reality replaces individual moral responsibility. Especially if the problem would be even worse when we stop trying to reinforce each other's good actions, then throwing up your hands and saying "well, it's the government's problem" isn't good enough.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    In some states fewer than 1 in 5 people have a passport. Overall it's under half. As in the UK, those that don't travel correlate with low education and populism.
- hueving 8y ago
  As a tourist it's very difficult to know what activities are damaging when it's long-term damage over decades. The difference between harmful and safe activities often come down to the caretakers of the place you are visiting and what they've done to setup safe visits.

ImaCake 8y ago

Why can't it go both ways? Tourists can make a conscious effort to put their rubbish in the bin and learn how to say "please" and "thanks" locally. I hike frequently, so simply by going to a national park I harm the environment there. But I also pay for park passes which help fund those parks, and I refrain from littering and wandering off the track.

trevor-e 8y ago
I'm sure most people try to put their rubbish in the bin if there are empty bins available. I've found most places are dirty because they don't have the infrastructure built for disposing of trash/recyclables, not that people are trying to be evil.
- timr 8y ago
  "I've found most places are dirty because they don't have the infrastructure built for disposing of trash/recyclables, not that people are trying to be evil." If the local culture is to carry your trash with you, the "right" thing to do is to adapt yourself to that culture, not the other way around. You're a guest. But yes, you're factually correct: if cities don't do this, far too many tourists will just toss their trash anywhere they please.
  - 8xde0wcNwpslOw 8y ago
    I find it really hard to believe that the majority of a garbage crisis is caused by tourists "tossing their trash wherever" -- after all, underdeveloped countries have problems with trash even in places where tourists are rare. I'm certain a big part of the issue are the services that tourism creates a demand for, and their waste for which there are no easy solutions when the infrastructure is not there. Setting up proper infra in place is really the local administration's job.
    - timr 8y ago
      "I find it really hard to believe that the majority of a garbage crisis is caused by tourists 'tossing their trash wherever'" Nobody said anything about a "garbage crisis". The comment that started this thread was that if you're in a foreign country, you shouldn't litter and you should learn how to say please and thank you in the local tongue. The fact that people are arguing about this subject is telling. Never in my life have I said "oh, there are no trash cans here. I guess I can just toss my litter anywhere because the local officials didn't plan properly for my presence."
      - trevor-e 8y ago
        That's quite the twist of my words. The only point I was trying to make is that places with large amounts of tourism should plan accordingly if they want to keep clean. Individuals are still at fault obviously, but there is plenty that can be done to make things better for everyone when dealing with trash at scale.

jopsen 8y ago

Indeed local governments have a massive responsibility.. But if hotel prices, etc goes up too much and regulation becomes too strong there is a risk the travel agencies will send tourists somewhere cheaper. Just saying the consumer is already traveling, they could travel somewhere else. That said, small efforts would probably go far.

GavinMcG 8y ago

It's really only an issue for you once there's already an impending disaster, and even then the responsibility doesn't lie with those that did the damage?! That's hard to swallow, for me. Do people have no moral obligations, in your view? Is life only about the power to push back against something one doesn't like, rather than some deeper commitment to what is right and good?

koboll 8y ago
>and even then the responsibility doesn't lie with those that did the damage?! Doesn't responsibility for a rising teen birthrate lie with the teens? Doesn't responsibility for an opioid epidemic lie with users and traffickers? Doesn't responsibility for gridlock lie with drivers? In a sense, yes, but realistically, this kind of collective action problem can only be solved at scale by governments. Telling Americans "STOP TRAVELING" will be about as effective as telling drug lords "STOP TRAFFICKING".
- GavinMcG 8y ago
  I agree that the collective action problem is solved by government, and that these problems are of that sort. It's just that the language of "but... the burden falls on local governments" makes it sound as though that pragmatic reality replaces individual moral responsibility. Especially if the problem would be even worse when we stop trying to reinforce each other's good actions, then throwing up your hands and saying "well, it's the government's problem" isn't good enough.
- isostatic 8y ago
  In some states fewer than 1 in 5 people have a passport. Overall it's under half. As in the UK, those that don't travel correlate with low education and populism.
hueving 8y ago
As a tourist it's very difficult to know what activities are damaging when it's long-term damage over decades. The difference between harmful and safe activities often come down to the caretakers of the place you are visiting and what they've done to setup safe visits.