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Ask HN: How do you manage your manager?

• aventador 8y ago
  It is taught at university. However, the courses you require are typically found in MALS and DLA programs. Studying classics (i.e., dead white guys, like Plutarch), rhetoric, methodology, and conflict resolution will help to grow your perspective in how to best influence others.
• dpark 8y ago
  Why were you asked to not give the talks? Context is everything. Are you asking for the company to pay but the travel/training budget is insufficient? Sell your boss on why this is valuable to the company and why the budget should be expanded or funded some other way. Does your manager not think you’re good enough to be giving the talk? Your options are probably to prove him/her wrong, get a better manager, or live with a manager who doesn’t trust/respect you. If your manager is good, talk to him/her about the concerns and go from there. If your manager is not good, figure out a path that gets you a good manager. Staying with a bad manager is pretty much destined to end in a bad situation.
  • kamyarg 8y ago
    ditto to this one, exactly what I would try to do with the same order.
  • raducu 8y ago
    OP did not tell us how his manager justified his refusal, BUT because of the way he formulated his question and my personal life experience, I'm very much inclined to believe that the manager simply gave not or bullshit/generic reasons as to why he won't let OP give the talk. That the most common situation is the manager is a shitty person who realises that if by any minute chance OP's talk somehow hurt the company the implications are dire for the manager while if OP's talk do nothing bad for the company, there's nothing to gain for the manager/company -- therefore the manager chose not to allow OP to give the talk. Which would prove the manager to be a verry shitty human being, just the kind that would elicit employees asking questions like "how do I manage my manager" on the internet.
    • dpark 8y ago
      > the most common situation is the manager is a shitty person You don’t know nearly enough about the situation to say this. Most managers are not shitty people.
      • raducu 8y ago
        You are right, I am jumping to conclusions based on what I'm reading between the lines: I presume this is not the first time the manager was shitty to OP since OP asked it in general terms how should he manage his manager, and I am also presuming the manager did not give satisfactory explanation for his refusal or offer a reasonable compromise(like "you can go, but you must never mention the company, our clients, our business etc). I am horrified by the complete lack of empathy and emotional intelligence of such managers. Won't OP just not hide such "silly" matters from the manager if whatever the matter is OP gets a slap on the wrist? Is it indicative of good managerial skills that OP felt he should ask about the matter on the internet and not the manager himself?
        • dpark 8y ago
          > * I presume this is not the first time the manager was shitty to OP since OP asked it in general terms how should he manage his manager* This is not a terrible assumption, but assuming malice on the manager’s part is. Maybe it is a shitty manager. Or maybe the guy asking is a shitty employee who’s constantly screwing up. Maybe it’s something else entirely. There is too little information here to say. > Is it indicative of good managerial skills that OP felt he should ask about the matter on the internet and not the manager himself? It’s indicative of a poor relationship. I can’t say whether the issue is with the manager, the individual, or both.
    • turc1656 8y ago
      Why would the manager be a shitty person if they saw no upside for the company, possible downside, and decided against that action? If we were talking about a decision that didn't involve another human being and their desires, I suspect you might find this decision-making logic acceptable. Perhaps you could explain why if there is no chance for the company to gain anything but a non-zero risk of the company's status, position, brand value, etc. being damaged, why is this a bad decision and the manager a "very shitty human being"?
• tacostakohashi 8y ago
  In my experience, if you need to "manage the manager", it's not a good situation, do whatever you need to do for the short term to get through it, but be looking for something better at the same time. Your manager should be someone that you can learn from, not someone who requires your management.
• slededit 8y ago
  If you focus on this at the point where you aren't getting what you want its too late. You need to build a relationship of trust before you ask for an exception or special request (in the eye of the manager not you). Your manager should know the following: - That if there is a problem you will always come to him/her first not try and work around him - That he can count on you to do what needs to be done. You will go out of your way for her. If you've ever said "this isn't my job" then you will have only an adversarial relationship. - That you understand what his/her boss wants, and therefore can exercise good judgement in using whatever leeway you are asking for. Of all of these, that last point is the most important. You should intimately understand why they consider a conference talk to be something negative. Your manager should know you understand that and can therefore trust you. The fact you don't understand why they are against this conference talk is the root of the failure. Note that the relationship should be reciprocal. I'm not saying be a slave to your boss, but if you want anything other than the traditional boss/subordinate relationship you need to have trust you have each others backs.
  • confiscate 8y ago
    agree. Especially with #3 "understand what boss wants" From the way OP phrased the question, it sounded like the OP felt the manager "owed" the OP. As in, OP feels going to the conference is a must, "a given", a "constitutional right", and that the manager "wronged" him by not letting him go. It's a very childish way of viewing the world. As in, I deserve to go to Disneyland. My mom won't let me, so I will now get a "thick skin" to "manage her". An adult would be thinking of helping mom pay the bills. OP focuses on himself, on what he wants. There is no mention in the question of what the manager wants. It screams "me me me"
    • slededit 8y ago
      The whole post is really about understanding what the boss wants, but #3 is something more specific so I want to iterate more on it: A lot of people want to help their boss and have a reciprocal relationship. But the mere desire is not enough - you have to have the "street smarts" to be trusted. If you don't know what sort of things will get your boss into trouble with their boss then even if you have a good relationship its unlikely you'll get significant leeway. You are likely to cause problems out of ignorance and a tight leash is to protect you from that.
• twunde 8y ago
  Consulting and project/product management do teach these skills frequently. Additionally, the senior people at your company can probably discuss this at length, especially if they've worked at large companies (look for people 40+ if possible). There are some general rules about managing your manager. One learn how they like to have information presented to them (Are they big on presentations? Emails? 1:1s?. Hint: it's probably not email). Are there specific things that they look for, ie former Mckinsey consultants tend to pick up small mistakes in presentations, some managers may have a thing about about grammar/spelling mistakes. When your company is hosting happy hours or events, go to them and mingle. NEVER talk badly about your manager. Always remember that your job is to make them look good. For example when you want to give talks at industry events, you need to pitch it as bringing more name recognition to the company and to the department. Benefits could be found in recruiting, easier time raising money, maybe more clients (IT'S FREE MARKETING for the company!) PS Hopefully, you were smart enough to ask why he didn't want you to give talks at industry events (a potentially valid issue could be that you're distracted from the work you're being paid to do)
• dominotw 8y ago
  > I am asking this because I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events, despite of getting an acceptance. Curious, were you told why? Seems really strange.
  • johnminter 8y ago
    I am not at all surprised. In many (most?) corporate environments, all your work product belongs to the corporation and management decides whether the benefits to the company outway risks. To get approval for conference talks I always had to first get approval from my direct management and then from the corporate clearance department. I worked in our analytical science division, so I also needed approval from the management of our client divisions to speak about my work on their projects. We even had editors who had to approve all abstracts, articles, and slides.
• dalore 8y ago
  Will you regret not talking at the events? If so it's your career and something you have to live with, not your manager. You won't always work for that company (or even that manager), but you will always have the talks on your resume. Unless he's got a really good reason, you haven't said. I would tell him it's your career and not his, but thanks for his advice.
• benforreal 8y ago
  I don't think managing your manager is a healthy way to think of things. You are there to support your company and team, and your manager enables this larger picture and should return support to every employee, including you. I think, as in most things, you need some empathy for his/her position and try to come to a common understanding. Talks are a fantastic way to boost your resume and soft skills, and they help you as an employee better practice talking to your team and enable you to better represent your team's ideas in big meetings with a crowd of stakeholders. Your manager should be sympathetic to this and be happy that you're passionate. On the other hand, when you speak at a conference, you are representing your company. If you say stupid things in your talk, you not only hurt yourself, but your company's reputation. I think the default policy at many big companies is to get explicit permission for each and every public thing you do like this, but usually managers just look the other way because its easier. Its possible your manager just wants to go by the book and not deal with the overhead of company policy, so the answer is no. You may want to discuss specifically why your manager isn't allowing you to present, and politely explain that you think it will level you up as an employee to be an even greater asset. Maybe suggest that you run the talk by them to make them feel better about what your are presenting, and even ask if its OK that you speak to HR or corporate to get the company's ground rules and make the extra time and effort in this regard so your manager doesn't have to.
• Null-Set 8y ago
  Dump him.
  • powertorque 8y ago
    It has to be a “him” isn’t it?
• FLUX-YOU 8y ago
  >I am asking this because I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events, despite of getting an acceptance. This is dumb. They are just afraid of losing you, possibly because you are under-compensated and they know it. Conventions are networking opportunities and you'll likely get approached if you make yourself available at a convention like this. There may be a corporate reason (you showing up as an employee at a questionable convention), but you should have the freedom to go as an individual and not represent the company. If my manager asked me to do that, I'd be on my way out. As far as managing better managers goes: be honest, admit mistakes, give suggestions for improvement, and there is almost no management to be done. If they begin to rely on you too much without giving you something in return, talk it out to see if they can spread the burden or give you more pay.
• codingdave 8y ago
  A few points come to mind: 1) It is none of your company's business what you do in your spare time, as long as you don't attach their name to it. However, if you are going to events to give talks using their name, their funding, or with time you have committed to them, then they do have some say in it. Whether or not their requests are reasonable comes down to the next point... 2) As other comments have said, "managing your manager" implies a mismatch in the relationship. You should have open communications with your manager, and be able to talk through both positive and negative aspects of your situation. That isn't easy for all people, but if you approach it as a communication problem to resolve, it is easier to be positive about the process. 3) If you sincerely try to improve communications, negotiate perspectives, and just aren't able to get to a place where things are going well, you have a choice to make: Live with it, or leave. If you choose to live with it, that is when a 'thick skin' comes into play.
  • singluere 8y ago
    Thanks for the advice. I've been trying to improve communication on my end but somehow I feel it has not improved. Given the power dynamics in a manager/report relationship, I feel that with certain managers its more difficult to get on the same page.
• guscost 8y ago
  Your job should not have to include managing your manager. Your manager’s job includes preventing this situation from happening. If you find yourself spending too much time on this (and you can’t fix it by bringing it up), you should find a new manager.
• geofft 8y ago
  > I am asking this because I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events, despite of getting an acceptance. Why? You have basically two options here: genuinely work towards mutual benefit, or deceive and "manage up" and look out for your own interests while you work on finding a better manager with whom you believe you can genuinely work towards mutual benefit. Many companies have a rotten culture and no other manager at the company will be really better. Many do not, and the idea of managing your manager is foreign to people who have only worked such places. If your manager has a good reason (e.g., your talk is likely to reveal trade secrets), work with your manager, who should genuinely want the people they manage to be the best people they can be - including letting them find roles or employers they'd like better, because open headcount is better than continuing to employ an unhappy employee. If your manager is scared of having excellent employees, make plans to leave. Either that manager has internalized this fear, or the company's incentives for managers (i.e., the things on your manager's own performance and compensation review) discourage the manager from helping you grow, and neither of those situations is worth trying to solve. In the first case, you can try an internal transfer if company politics permits it; in the second, you probably need to find another company. (If you need to deceive, I'd maybe go with something like, the event expected that I'd present and backing out would be bad for our company's reputation, but I'll avoid this in the future. Then go to the event and figure out who's hiring.)
• NikolaNovak 8y ago
  To a certain degree, thick skin, especially in the sense of not getting overly emotional, focusing on the goal, seeing big picture, having patience, etc, is always a good advice. But it's not necessarily the key part of having a good relationship with your manager. First, the ground work - you can NOT start with what you want or demand on day one. When joining a new team or new manager: 1. Understand their constraints, goals, priorities. While you may be focusing solely on technical solution, they may have overriding cost, time, and other resource constraints. Understanding them, and helping your manager fit within them and achieve their goals will engender trust and start building a relationship. 2. Understand their background - technical, business, functional, management, etc. This will give you first layer of insight on how to reach them. 3. Understand how they like to work. Little things like: - How do they like information presented - email or in person or text message or phone? Small bites or long presentations? Ask questions as they come or batch them? If you present your information / request in way that works for them, you will have better chance of success - How do they like / take feedback: openly in group settings, openly in private, or do you have to tread carefully - Are they hierarchical or co-operative; do they base authority on status or knowledge or persuasion; do they lead by consensus or by direction 4. Per above, build trust, relationship and camaraderie. If you understand and help them achieve their goals, you are an ally they want to help. If you are (perceived or actually) uncooperative, unproductive, distracted, unaware, etc, you may be seen as irritant. Now that you have a solid understanding and relationship: - As per the old (and cliched) Dale Carnegie's standby, before any request, figure out a "business case" - what's in it for them, or team, or company? If it only benefits you, it's a weak case. Almost always you can find a way to bring benefits to team, even if it's just enhancing your skillset that you can use on project, meeting customers, or something similarly indirect - Think of their constraints or objections ahead of time and address them in your request. If it's absence from the team, who can be your backup or can you do work ahead of time. If it's cost, can you make case for ROI? - Persuade them that they want this to happen. Don't ask or demand, rather present and discuss. If there's any way to tie it into their goals, thoughts, or priorities, do not miss an opportunity to present it: "As you were saying the other day, we need to reach out to the wider market and find new avenues for our products and networking. One of the ways I was brainstorming is industry conferences; upon some research I found this conference where I think we can potentially engage an interested audience", etc etc etc :> Without more detail on your specific case, or your specific manager, the generic thoughts are all I can offer. Best of luck!
• rdiddly 8y ago
  You've taken a very specific question/situation and vastly generalized it to "How do I manage my manager?" The answer is most likely, "Avoid doing it if possible," but why don't we instead begin (and maybe end) our manager-management course with the easier question, "How do I deal with the fact that my manager told me not to speak at a conference?" If you're relying on the company for the conference in any way -- for example, they're paying your way, or you're going to talk about their technology (and even if you built it for them, it's usually still theirs) -- then the manager has the right to approve or disapprove. If neither of those two elements are present, and there are no others that I haven't mentioned, (or you can quickly make it so), then the manager needs to be told gently to fuck off, and why.
• biztos 8y ago
  > asked by my manager not to give talks This is really missing some context: were you asked to not give the talks because of their content? Were you denied budget to go to the events, which would be a completely different thing? What reason did your manager give for the request? As a general point, you should consider what your manager wants to achieve, and to the extent it doesn't contradict your own goals or ethics, help them achieve that. If no such alignment is possible, CTRL+ALT+DEL.
• RickJWagner 8y ago
  I just give my manager my honest best 40 hours for that week. I don't want to work beyond that (though sometimes it just has to be done), and I sometimes have weeks where I'm just tired/lazy/not well and don't give a good 40. But I always try. Using that formula I've managed to always have good relations with my managers-- this is my 28th year in the business, over 3 companies and several managers in each. Oh, about the speaking gigs. (I've had a few of these too, and only once lost the opportunity to go. That one was a foreign event and wasn't really in my strong suit.) I'd use that as a bargaining chip in your periodic reviews. When the manager talks about your performance, mention going to one of these shows as a benchmark. I wouldn't try to use a minor show-- make it J1 (or whatever it's called these days), MSFT Build, RH Summit, etc. Something that means something. If the manager balks, I'd seriously consider bringing it up in a group-level meeting. Upper managers almost always offer a Q&A session, you can have a cleverly worded question prepared in advance. It's hard to claim to be a world-class company when you don't let you people go to world-class gatherings, so you should find some traction there. Good luck.
• lemmicide 8y ago
  Make sure they work in the same time zone, for one. Two, your guy seems to be throttling your notoriety. Flip that fucker the bird, and if he give you static, quit on that bastard. The problem you’ve got right here is as old as the Molly MaGuires. Are you exposing trade secrets? No? Then someone simply doesn’t want to be outshined.
• timdellinger 8y ago
  You should be aware of your boss's goals, and his/her boss's goals (which are often written down and reviewed annually), and your organization's goals and mission statement. If the conference is aligned with these goals, you have a case. You should also have a professional development plan in place with your boss, so that he/she knows the ways in which you're putting time into growing yourself professionally, and so that he/she can steer opportunities your way and help you achieve what you've got your eye on. If presenting at industry events is "on your list", it should be On Your List, i.e. written down and reviewed annually. For managers, professional development of their direct reports is often one of their goals. I'm from the No Surprises school of thought - you don't want surprises from your manager, and your manager doesn't want surprises from you.
• maxxxxx 8y ago
  I generally avoid talking too much with my managers. I usually do without asking what I think is right without getting permission (better ask for forgiveness later which rarely happens). When asked I will tell them what's going on but without asking I am quiet and do my job. When my team has to work with other teams I also talk to them directly without manager if possible. This works well for me. Other people have the opposite approach always talking to their manager and trying to develop a relationship. From what I see this only works for some. In the end they want somebody who does the necessary work and causes the manager as little work as possible. It's pretty rare that a manager actually mentors people to get better. As far as asked not to give talks it seems pretty clear that your manager doesn't have your best interest at heart.
• lgleason 8y ago
  Bad/inexperienced managers/team leads can make a great job a miserable experience. I usually leave those positions for better jobs vs trying to train someone who is supposed to be my "superior". The not giving talks at certain industry events seems odd unless there is a company policy around that due to IP issues etc..
• ilkan 8y ago
  Imho odds are your manager is right. Are you working for a 3 letter agency, its contractor or subcontractor; are you revealing trade secrets or company priorities, or implying them by revealing your knowledge on a subject; are you using your role as employee of company X to land paid speaking roles; have you signed employment agreements that state any intellectual property you create on or off the job is property of the company; are you speaking at event which could bring suspicion or disrepute to your employer eg blackhat, scammy, or events sponsored by foreign powers; do you work in finance and are being paid an amount in cash or in perks (transport, meals) which invites scrutiny for ethical violations; do you work in a sensitive or "access" position which has required you to sign a code of conduct? What's the reason for denial? Context is necessary.
  • azangru 8y ago
    > do you work in finance and are being paid an amount in cash or in perks (transport, meals) which invites scrutiny for ethical violations I too would love to hear the reasons behind the manager's request, but wow, is this also a potential issue? Are you not allowed to be paid however much they are willing to pay you? And why would you disclose your salary or perks at a conference anyhow? Do people do that?
• powertorque 8y ago
  Context is very important here. Have you always been denied for every talk? How frequently are you planning these talks and does it impact you work? Is there any trade secret/ IP the manager is concerned about? Is the company paying for everything and if so what are you giving back?
• debacle 8y ago
  I have been a manager for a few years. Giving a talk at an event can be a huge career boost. Unless she has a good reason, you should ignore her request.
• gorbachev 8y ago
  Did your manager tell you why? If not, then ask. There USUALLY is more than meets the eye to things like this. I could think of several very reasonable objections from your company to you giving public talks.
  • walshemj 8y ago
    And get it in writing
• nilkn 8y ago
  You've jumped all the way to trying to micromanage your boss, which is inherently a politically explosive undertaking, but where you actually should be is just asking much more straightforward questions: why don't they want you to give the talk? Maybe they're trying to sabotage your career progress, but maybe there are legitimate concerns about the content of the talk (e.g., exposing secret sauce internal methods to competitors in an extremely public way) or maybe they just don't want to grant the budget to send you. To expand beyond this, generally the way to "manage" your boss is to get to the point where they don't have to manage you. While you won't formally or hierarchically be on an equal footing with them, informally you will be because at that point you can have a continuous ongoing relationship based on mutual trust.
  • eastbayjake 8y ago
    Yes, most commenters here are missing a legitimate concern about sharing confidential information in a public forum. If the talk is "How we do X at Y Inc" there's a legitimate concern; if the talk is "Learning to Love CSS in JS" then the manager may have ulterior motives. My advice to OP: ask to walk through your presentation deck with your manager, both to get feedback and buy-in. Managers will be more invested in your success if they feel invested in what you're doing. (Suggestion: offer to plug your company's job openings with your manager's contact info.)
• mathattack 8y ago
  Lots of good advice on the thread. I would add... 1) Proactively give a weekly written status with goals for the week, what you accomplished, what you didn’t, what you need from them, and what you are waiting on for others. 2) If the damage is irreparable, time to transfer or leave.
• nostrademons 8y ago
  Book rec: https://www.amazon.com/Throwing-Elephant-Zen-Art-Managing/dp/0060934220 https://www.amazon.com/Throwing-Elephant-Zen-Art-Managing/dp...
• xchip 8y ago
  Well, you ask your manager for the reasons behind his decision, most of the time they have a compelling reason and you get to learn something (besides of not remaining resent).
• deepaksurti 8y ago
  Set up a weekly goal setting session between you and your manager. Keep crisp feedback loop going on towards the goals you mutually set. Balance out the business needs and engineering implementation, aka manage tech debt. Own your products and work with your manager to improve those both externally/internally. Commit, Deliver; Repeat
• KirinDave 8y ago
  Your question is not about "managing your manager." This is about your manager trying to sabotage your career. Give the talks, quit if you have to. You don't need a manager who is not your advocate. I say this as someone responsible for many more management functions in tech than a technical tasks now. If your manager doesn't help you, tell HIS manager and be open: you don't need to accept this. Bad management is a poison. Selfish managers need to be lanced out of a company like the malignant boils that they are. Take advantage of a seller's market for technical skills while you can, because there is no promise that you'll have this kind of agency in a year.
  • mratzloff 8y ago
    I agree that you should seek out a manager that wants to help you advance in your career, but you don't have enough context to judge the manager in this particular case. Perhaps OP is spending too much time speaking at conferences and not hitting his other agreed objectives. Perhaps there is a critical project launch that OP is leading during the timeframe of the conference and it's just not feasible in this isolated instance. Etc.
    • KirinDave 8y ago
      None of that is material to the judgement here. The fact that the disconnect exists as it stands is evidence of a total breakdown in the manager-associate relationship.
      • mratzloff 8y ago
        You asserted, without evidence and in absolute terms, that the manager is trying to "sabotage" OP's career, advocated that he quit his job, and that the manager is "bad" and "selfish." That's a lot of assumptions based on four short sentences. All we really know is 1) OP wants to give a talk at an industry event and 2) his manager asked him not to. Yes, there seems to be a disconnect—on the OP's side. There may be one on the manager's side also; we don't know. It is also not the responsibility of the manager alone to make the relationship work. People have their own interpretation of events, and ultimately none of us commenting knows what efforts the manager has made and what OP's interpretation of those efforts was.
• mwerty 8y ago
  Not sure how pathological your situation is - 'thick skin' seems a cover-up for a lack of managerial accountability and you might not see it give your position inside the organization but this may help: https://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197 https://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/014028... Best of luck.
• cpheimbach 8y ago
  1 loyalty Too often I experience employees or co-worker to think they have better ideas or should be opposing to their manager. Managing happens often under uncertainty. Making it for your boss easier to know you are there to take on ups and downs will almost often grant loyalty in return. On this job and future opportunities as well.
  • gbajson 8y ago
    After 15 years IT I see that managing bad bosses makes sense. Bad bosses, with their bad ideas, are usually fired or resign at some stage, the good ones stay.
    • powertorque 8y ago
      I heard “me me me” from the OP. There is no context or direction that it is a bad manager. What if OP is a bad employee and a drain on company resources? It is a one-sided talk so far with no context on the other party.
• mvpu 8y ago
  First, be valuable to the company - get work done, be reliable, be available. Second, understand the manager's strengths and weaknesses and become valuable to them individually.. if architecture is their weakness, help them understand that; if not tolerating skipped deadlines is their weakness, don't skip them, etc. Third, provide constructive feedback in 1:1s - help them become better. Finally, do not make them look bad in public, especially when their bosses are around.
• a_imho 8y ago
  Tell them what they want to hear.
• dagw 8y ago
  Remember that one step up from you, your manager is just another employee trying to please his manager. So try to understand what your manager's manager needs from your manager and focus on what you can do to help him deliver that. Make your manager feel like you're on his team, supporting him with whatever unreasonable demands his manager is placing on him. Another point is to try to understand where demands are actually coming from. If your manager is placing 'unreasonable' demands on you, is it entirely his idea or is it because his bosses boss is placing unreasonable demands on his boss. Knowing this obviously won't make it easier to deal with those demands, but it does make it easier to put together and effective counterargument when you know whom you're actually arguing with. The most effective argument to make for why you cannot have the database migration done by the end of June is heavily dependent on who is actually demanding it be done by the end June and why it's so important to them.
  • skyisblue 8y ago
    Agreed. Help your manager succeed and they in turn will help you.
    • scalesolved 8y ago
      I've done this many times and I would say it's only reciprocated around 50% of the time. It's more nuanced than helping them succeed and expecting them to help you.
    • koonsolo 8y ago
      Or even better, help your managers manager to succeed, 'dispite' your manager. That way you can get your managers position. Saw this happen multiple times. Welcome to the corporate world.
• joejerryronnie 8y ago
  In addition to some of the solid advice given in this thread, I use the following technique with my manager and it seems to work well in establishing trust and increasing my value to the organization: Every once in a while (maybe every 2-3 weeks), I'll pop into my manager's office and ask him the biggest challenge he's facing at the moment, i.e. what's keeping him up at night. And then I'll try to help him out with it. Sometimes I can take direct action to solve the issue. Other times I can inform my colleagues of the issue and help to prioritize a fix with the team. And still other times I just listen with an empathetic ear and give some advice or kick around ideas with him.
• everdev 8y ago
  After not finding success reporting to managers, I started my own company. In the end I learned that I'm a great fit as CEO and not a great fit as an employee. Now I have the freedom (and responsibility) to make those decisions. Yes, you could build a relationship with your manger and try to find a way to convince them to let you go to these events. Or, you can be your own boss and just go. If you keep thinking your manger is "doing it wrong", it might be worth stepping into their role and seeing if you can actually do it better.
• Mefis 8y ago
  It is important to remember that your manager's and your own goals may not be alligned. In other words, managers may not have your best interests at heart. Always have to look out for yourself.
• shoo 8y ago
  http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=2267 http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=2267
• AllegedAlec 8y ago
  I think a lot of advice here implicitly assumes the following: 1: You are invested in the company in a serious way. 2: Your company is invested in you and wishes the best for you. However, I think those are quite optimistic assumptions. There's a inherent tension between what you want and what the company wants. The company wants to invest into you the minimum required to both keeping you as an employee as well as allowing you to function as an employee. However, you have an incentive to keep learning as much as possible and broadening your horizons. A manager's task is (at least in part) to try to resolve this tension. Your manager, however, has apparently decided to side with the company on this. There could be several reasons for this. It's possible that he's a through and through company man, who believes that the company will do right by him and all other employees and that it would not be beneficial for the company (and thus not for any of the employees of this company) were you to go give this talk. Another possibility is that he believes that you will not complain when being told that your wishes do not matter. This is quite common in IT related businesses, since in general these people are more agreeable and less likely to voice their opposition to someone they believe to have authority over them. A third option will be is that he is afraid that if you are to give this talk and network at the event, you may find out that you're not being respected properly in your current company and may try to find your luck elsewhere. I'd say that if you want to have a chance to establish a long-term working relationship with this manager, you need to find out what your manager's motivation is from keeping you from such events and based on that formulate a strategy for dealing with him/her.
  • tomerv 8y ago
    > you need to find out what your manager's motivation is from keeping you from such events and based on that formulate a strategy for dealing with him/her. That's a pretty adverserial approach. Why not understand the manager's motivation and then work with him/her? The "adverserial-ness" is also apperant in the possible causes you raised for the manager's decision (he's a company man / he's taking advantage of the fact that you're agreeable / he doesn't want you to work elsewhere). There can be other reasons, even with a manager that's 100% on your side. For example, maybe he worked hard to get approval for you to go to that conference, even fought his supervisors, but at the end he lost? That's why the best advice is to ask him to explain the decision, and not to come to the conversation with any assumptions.
• koliber 8y ago
  I am lucky enough to have a good manager with whom I can have very open conversations. We often talk about things we could improve at our company. Many times it is fixing a bug or improving the UX. Sometimes, it's a process that needs to be built or tweaked. At other times, it's a habit that is counter-productive or something that one of us does that could be done better. It's a two way street. Just because he is my manager does not mean that we should not talk about things that he needs to change in order for everything to work better. We are equal human beings and differ in areas of responsibility at the company we work for. I am responsible for building software and fixing it, and he is responsible for making sure that I, and others like me, have all the resources necessary to do our job. He is not superior to me and I am not superior to him. We all have flaws and we all strive to be better people. Conversations where we talk about how each of us can improve naturally have a small level of discomfort. Special care must be given when pointing out how someone can improve. Knowing that there are good intentions behind such feedback makes it ever so easier.
  • jexah 8y ago
    I am in this exact situation. It's one of the best places to be in as an employee IMO.
• bitL 8y ago
  Giving a talk at a prestigious event is a clear signal to your manager that you are likely going to jump over them due to your vastly increased visibility and popularity, so a crab mode is employed at you. Get thick skin - any job is temporary anyway, but marketing opportunities are few. Don't do anything rough and clearly unfair though.
• hn0 8y ago
  Try to understand their point of view. Maybe he/she hates your guts, but I doubt it. I’d ask something like: “I’m certain you have your reasons about not wanting me to attend the conference, but they aren’t clear to me. I have the best interests of the company in mind, but from my point of view this feels like a unduly limitation of my personal liberty. I do understand there’s not always the time or energy to explain yourself to those you manage, and I don’t want to question your decisions. But I wish you would explain your reasoning about why you feel I should not attend the conference. And maybe see if there is a possibility of a compromise? I hope you try to understand my point of view here, I do not want any sour feelings to develop between us.“ Also, give people time to change their minds. Just gently asking a few times a couple of times in advance, preferably during downtime or when your manager is in a relaxed state if mind. It might help them reconsider the idea, even if it feels like nagging. Just be wary that you don’t come off as “not listening” or questioning their authority. If you manager is really difficult you could ask a superior, but be very careful, you can be certain they won’t like you going behind their back.
  • raducu 8y ago
    Yes OP, and while you're at that and reducing your relationship with your manager to that of a parent to a 2 year old boy, also remember to kneel and kiss your manager's hand if they do you the favor of allowing you to do as you please in your own spare time.
• zakum1 8y ago
  Managing people is hard, so it is always important to recognise this and help your manager by being proactive with ideas that help her/him manage the team, understanding what is important to her/him and the organisation, and contribute greatly to showing results as a team. Too often we unnecessarily feel that we are on different sides - and overblow this in our minds.
• werber 8y ago
  Follow the org chart up past your manager to get what you want
  • codingdave 8y ago
    This works if, and only if, your 2nd line supervisor thinks your boss is incompetent. Otherwise, he'll literally just send you back to the boss with directions to "Handle this." And in the process, you have ticked off your boss, and given a bad impression to the 2nd line boss.
• vfc1 8y ago
  You don't. As long as you work for someone else, that type of situations will always occur, to a larger or lesser degree. As long as you work under someone else's supervision, you will never have the freedom to do whatever you want, like for example give a conference talk or a million other things. I'm sure it's not only the conference talk, right? There are other things. Instead of investing so much time trying to navigate the relation with your manager and always ending up in situations like this, I suggest trying to use that same energy and effort and dedicate to try and find a way to become your own boss. You will then have the freedom to do whatever you want each and every single day, and won't have to spend all that time and energy constantly convincing someone of things that are often for their own good.
  • repsak 8y ago
    This is quite childish advice. Is this your solution all disagreements? "You will then have the freedom to do whatever you want each and every single day, and won't have to spend all that time and energy constantly convincing someone of things that are often for their own good." I wish! Constantly convincing someone of things that are often for their own good is basically the definition of what you do when working for yourself, or should I say when your working for you clients/trying to acquire new clients.
    • EvanAnderson 8y ago
      I enjoy the give-and-take that comes with trying to guide a Customer toward what I perceive to be their best interests. Doing that with multiple Customers in parallel means that I have victories and defeats. That's heartening and engaging to me. I would find it very demoralizing to continue to engage that way with a single party over and over again. I found it that way back in the "bad old days" when I was an employee, and I'm certain I'd find it that way again. When I talk about being self-employed I like to say that I traded having a single "boss" for multiple "bosses"-- one or more from each Customer. One thing that I've really enjoyed, to that end, is being able to cut my losses with a given Customer if the situation becomes untenable. That option wasn't so easy when I was an employee. An employer, in most of the US at least, has the freedom to be fickle at any time for arbitrary reasons. Being self-employed, to my mind, helps to level that playing field. Being an employee amounts to running a business with a single Customer. If that Customer leaves you've suddenly got a business with no Customers. New Customer acquisition costs are very high (especially in the employer-provided health insurance world of US employment) and Customer loyalty can be very low. It's a precarious situation to me, not one I'd ever want to be in again, and not one I'd counsel someone to put themselves into.
• m0rc 8y ago
  The best advice I have seen about this topic is the classic book "The Unwritten Laws of Engineering" from W.J. King. I always recommend the book to newcomers. Note that the latest re-print of the book is named "The Unwritten Laws of Business". I guess that editors expect to attract more readers with the new title.
• psyc 8y ago
  I don’t know how to, because the usual tool - words - are off the table. Every time we speak, he monologues at length, going into the kind of detail parents use with small children. He paves over every attempt to interject or ask for clarification I actually need. And then at the very end, he listens to the first few words of my thoughts, then interrupts that he’s late to something and runs off. Every time.
  • jchallis 8y ago
    Life's too short to work for someone that you do not respect and does not respect you. You have limited ability to change your manager's behavior, but a lot to change that manager.
• tzahola 8y ago
  >I was recently asked by my manager not to give talks in really difficult to get in industry events Wait, what? I don’t think your employer has the right to prevent you from giving talks. Am I misunderstanding something?
• snarfy 8y ago
  It's nothing to do with having a thick skin. It's about being professional. Nothing that happens at work should be taken personally. Meetings with your manager need to be two way. As your manager tells you how you are doing, you need to tell them how they are doing. I manage my manager by being completely candid about his performance as a manager.
• LTjoker 8y ago
  It sounds like you've already decided to give the talk. Have you discovered the rationale? Why would your manager us his leverage to influence your career path? Managers learn through failure like everybody else.
• bendixso 8y ago
  What does the company have to lose by your going, and what do they have to gain? If you are asking to take personal time off in the middle of some critical goal/deadline, I could see how your going would negatively impact the business. In fact, it has happened to me while working on projects. Some key person is off at a conference, while we're all charging to get the thing done, and it's not a good feeling. In my experience, tech conferences tend to be more for developers and less for the companies and businesses that hire them. Let's be honest with ourselves here. It's kind of self-indulgent, like a mini-vacation. It's not like you can't watch the videos online or go read whatever tutorial or documentation. I'm only speaking to my experience here, so maybe your conference has something the typical tech conference doesn't have. I would only go to a conference if I knew that going would more than pay for the cost. If I were certain it would lead to many more opportunities than what I've got going on at present, I would say it's worth paying for the airfare, hotel, and restaurant food. It seems like you could stand to gain quite a lot from going to this conference, and your company might just lose you. They are justifiably afraid of that, but so what? This is capitalism, man. It's ruthless. Everyone's in it for themselves. Your company is subject to market forces. You are subject to market forces. They would need to find another developer to train up if you left, and if they let you go because you went to a conference, they would be taking on the risk of having to replace you. So there's an inherent risk in going (on both sides). Can you currently afford to take that risk? How much do you have saved? How much debt do you have? Would you be okay with being unemployed for a few months while looking for the next thing? When someone else's interests are naturally at odds with yours, there is little negotiation to be done. They simply don't want what you want, and that's okay. Can you afford to go get yours?
• OliverJones 8y ago
  Everybody has a time constant. That's the time it takes for them to accept a new or challenging idea. Figure out your manager's time constant. If you say, "I'm giving a public talk" (or "We should move from Azure to AWS", or "We need a better defect tracking system" or whatever), it's human nature to resist. It's new. It's change. Entrepreneurs often have long time constants. It's necessary for them to be stubborn, and stubbornness is generally a good personality trait when doing difficult things. So, don't expect your manager to agree right away to your new idea. Give her at least her time constant to think it over. How do you do this? It depends on the manager's work style. If she diligently reads stuff you send her, pitch your idea in email in the middle of the afternoon, so she can think about it overnight. If he communicates verbally, ask for some time and pitch your idea in person. WHATEVER YOU DO, don't expect "(facepalm) Hey, you're right. Good idea!" during your pitch. It takes a while. Now, some managers will come to you after their time constant elapses and say "I have an idea!" and recite your idea. You have to accept this.
  • antisocial 8y ago
    Now, some managers will come to you after their time constant elapses and say "I have an idea!" and recite your idea. You have to accept this. LOL
• linsomniac 8y ago
  "I don't want you speaking at difficult to get in industry events." "That's interesting. Why would you say that?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RknemM8Hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RknemM8Hw
• osrec 8y ago
  My experience is in the finance industry, so it may be different for you, but this is what I've observed throughout various jobs: Your manager... - prioritises themselves over you (obviously!) - is probably not the best leader, and can't deal with their authority being challenged - probably doesn't know what's best for you - will sabotage your prospects from time to time (even if it doesn't provide them with immediate benefit) - probably sees you as a threat, especially if you're good at what you do - will try and control everything you do at work (micro-management), and perhaps even outside it - will forget things you've discussed and agreed in the past - will try and ensure you never sense that the above are true You should... - send regular descriptive, emails that make your manager aware of what you're up to and what you've discussed/mutually agreed. The more stuff in writing, the better. This is to CYA (cover your ass). Also, it's an evidence of "work" (stupid, I know, but it's how it is). - be aware of toxic patterns in your manager's behaviour. E.g. giving you pointless work, stopping you from taking a holiday at a particular time for no good reason etc. Once that starts, it's usually a downward spiral, and may signal a time to move on. - look out for jealously. If you start to outperform your manager, they may get jealous, and that's bad for you. I think this may have something to do with you not speaking at the event, but I leave that for you to judge. - mingle and build relationships with other senior managers at your firm. Eventually you'll want to take the next step, perhaps to escape the clutches of your current manager if the relationship has soured. - try not to be too smart. Back down, even when your manager is wrong, or risk ruining the relationship. It's sad, but most managers don't take well to being challenged, even if your tone and intentions are good. Having a thick skin, as you mentioned, is necessary for the above. I remember joining an investment bank as young whipper-snapper quant, trying my best to show how great I was at every task. Trust me, it did not go down well! After a few job changes, I decided to dumb it down and toe the line. Before I knew it, I started to get promoted to some rather senior positions, just by doing the basics and some long-ish hours! The key was ensuring that you're not perceived as a threat, while ensuring everyone around you is fully aware of your contributions.
• jrs95 8y ago
  Unless you have a really good job I'd probably give the talk(s) anyways and see if you can get away with it.
• analog31 8y ago
  One thing I've learned is that managers hate surprises, and hate making decisions in front of an audience. Think about how it feels to have your idea (going to the conference) vetoed. Their idea (approving your attendance) could get vetoed too. The easiest thing to do with any unexpected idea is to quash it. Perhaps a way to deal with a situation like the conference, is to get them involved early. Like, before you apply for it: "Hey, boss, there's this conference that I think would be beneficial for us. We'll learn a lot and if I give a talk, it will be prestigious for the business. It's a long shot, but can I apply for it?" Also, in all conversations with your boss, work on your mutual enthusiasm for your career development. At the very least, it's unlikely they will say to your face that they don't support your career.
• scardine 8y ago
  I can say what not to do: never do something to undermine or expose your boss no matter how incompetent he is. Personally I let my boss take all credit for my work (not really, just make everything I can in order to get him promoted). When he gets promoted he is likely to carry me up with him (if not I'm working for the wrong boss). It paid out several times.
  • kjeetgill 8y ago
    To add slightly, the "worse" a manager is the more important this is. If someone wants all the credit and has the authority, you can only either help or face some degree of consequence. The more competent and confident leadership is the more they'll work to make sure you get pushed into the spotlight for your work (sometimes against your will if you're shy or unsure). A good corporate culture will naturally make them look good when you look good. Disclaimer: I've had the distinct pleasure of only working _with_ but never really _for_ a difficult of manager.
• atndants_remote 8y ago
  Ever wonder why mosts casinos have more “SLOT ATTENDANTS “ than cocktail service when it is rare to see a slot machine breaks or needed service and surely those attendants had no engineering degree or at least experience on fixing those computers.. Will I figured out the answer after years of observations, provocation,to gather specific outcome relating slot machine payout. casino players tend to focus only to the screen , would skip going to the bathroom hoping that somehow it will randomly pay some jockpot.. The Handheld Device equipped by the “slot machine attendants “ are designed to remotely control slot machine and it make sense for casino’s point of vantage bacause they not only have the advantage but they have TOTAL CONTROL of cashflaw acting like gods and the players sheeps .. floor supervisors / managers will orient/instruct attendants on their starts of shift to have a certain machines to patrol /covered and will be instructed to press a certain button for each active machine depending on BET the will also be instructed to write down machines # located at the top area near the remote receiver wich they have now built bigger more accurate. Slot attendants do not know exact functionality wich I think careless. They think they are above the law and things will not have a day in court ! I will subpoena their video recordings , slot attendants employment records, their job descriptions, and the ultimate proof of this immoral , dirty , currupted system is their sudden double / triple Revenues after Slot attendants and their handheld device where operational. Revenue’s should have decreased since they have to pay extra for hiring so many slot attendant . Casinos sure contribute generates tax , employed , and sometimes help some organization, individuals, But casinos creates more unemployment, foreclosures, divorces, tax revenues individuals before they where deceived go out to dine, go to stores and shops , spend money for auto repair, medical , and had a bank account . Once people learned how they been going to those damn casinos not knowing that they have zero chance and machines where remotely controlled .. I can’t imagine the implications . I hope it’s not too late. Too many lives destroyed victimized by this greedy , barbaric individuals that profit’s on other misfortunes this is worse than the Eslavary era. Section 10 on their compact agreement states that casinos should maintain a clean , honest gambling operation wich they have broken and will be questioned and challenge .. When I migrate to this country I have a big respect , belief, and admire the law , the rules, will I guess I was wrong I thought this only happens in third countries welcome to america. Populace are being feed constant fear about nuclear, North Korea, Russia, China, global warming bullshit. No one is talking about this damn casinos that is more distructive combined any other treats it put the country in jeopardy. They enemy are among us and already crossed the border they play their card very will and could be the victor..