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I graduated from high school in 1989, at the very apex of 80's butt-rock heavy metal. My school had probably 200 guys with ratted out long hair, most of whom o

I graduated from high school in 1989, at the very apex of 80's butt-rock heavy metal. My school had probably 200 guys with ratted out long hair, most of whom owned a guitar and dreamed of being a rock star. Of that group, probably 50 played well enough to do a creditable "Eruption" solo, and there were half a dozen guys who could get on stage at an assembly and keep the entire school entertained for 10 minutes. Lots of those guys, when asked what they planned to do after school would look you in the eye and tell you they were going to be a rock star. Lots of them tried, forgoing college to form bands and live the dream. At the time, there were so many stories of starving bands rising out of the LA club scene to land million dollar contracts that it seemed like all you had to do was show up. It was a lot like reading the tech press today about the Bay Area. Anybody care to guess how many of the guys from my school actually became rock stars? So here we are, 20 years later, seeing exactly the same pattern. We hear about the Twitters of the world, getting zillions of dollars for some trivial idea, and figure we can do that too. And just like the kid from my youth with the Judas Priest t-shirt, we ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence we see every day that there's pretty much zero chance of that happening. Here's an idea for a reality check. Do a quick search for "Ask HN: Rate my startup" here. Count(*), then Count(millionaires). That's what you're up against. If I were in school, I'd stick it out just to hedge my bet.

luminarious 16y ago
If you do the same thing everyone else is doing, you will fail. If you work really hard, you will perhaps fail to a lesser degree than everybody else. But the only way to win is to play your own game.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Play your own game, but stack the deck in your favor. It's no great feat to bootstrap a software business from within a company paying you $100k fresh out of school.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  If you play a typical game in normal fashion, you lose when losing is typical. If you play reasonably well in a game where modest success is typical, you will likely get modest success. Most people who play absolutely their own game lose too. Most big successes play a game where winning is typical and play it better than average. There's a "sweet spot" of self-expression and following the crowd but it's still fairly close to the crowd.
rythie 16y ago
You don't say what eventually happened to those people, you learn the best by failing. A teacher at my school was in signed band in the early 90s, released a couple of albums, travelled the world though ultimately their second album flopped. He still had time to train as a teacher before hitting 30. He got a lot of respect from the kids in class as a result of being in that band. The former U.K. prime minister was in a band in his youth which failed, doesn't seem like he did too badly afterwards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Rumours_(band) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Rumours_(band)
Mc_Big_G 16y ago
I was one of those guys and if I hadn't given it a shot, I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. I learned some hard lessons and then went to college and got a bachelor's in engineering. Okay, so I put off financial security for a few years, but I have a lot of great memories and the satisfaction of knowing I had the balls to try. No regrets. From the condescending tone of your post, it seems you think you're better than all those guys who pursued their dream. You're wrong and I salute each and every one of them. What fun is life if you don't take chances?
- agentultra 16y ago
  Right on. I dropped out of high-school to work at a web company programming in perl. I was ensconced with the idea of doing something I usually tinkered with at three in the morning while trying not to wake up my mother AND making a butt-load of cash doing it (at least for a teenager). The crash came about a year later and I had to go back to finish school so I could get into college. That was a little embarrassing, but I got through it... ... and did it again. Fast-tracked a year of audio engineering and thought I could start up a label and produce records. Started my own business this time. sigh I wouldn't get back into programming for a few years, but I say it was worth it. Now I love programming, but who knows? In a few years I might want to be building hot-rods or running an expat cafe in some foreign country. You only get to live once. UPDATE: edited for spelling/grammar/clarity
- asdaqqp 16y ago
  There is difference between starting a credible business (not another Zynga or Posterous ) and starting a rock band. Good busineses require a lot of knowledge about engineering and world in general. Everyone here recommending dropping out of college is clearly delusional. What the fuck a freshman knows, even if a student is computer genius, college is essential to learn about how world works. To all the folks who are commenting like stupid about how they learnt nothing from college, I suggest them to find few people who couldn't go to college and talk to them. And Oh btw Steve Jobs dropped out because he didnt have money and Zukerberg studied at Exter and Harvard, similar with Bill Gates. When they both dropped out, they had good connections as well as parents capable of bank rolling them. If you are a an 18 year of HTML CSS RUBY PHP educated kid, please dont listen to this crap. Go to a good school and get a degree in engineering and minor in business or economics.
lambda 16y ago
There's a big difference between working on a startup and trying to be a rock star. Even if you fail at a startup, you have learned a wide array of skills in the process. You have gotten hands-on experience with a variety of technologies. You have learned, through experience, some lessons on making products for a customer. You've learned something about business, and finance, and investing. If you fail at being a rock star, well, you have some skills at playing the guitar, and can go on to being a mediocre guitar teacher or work in a wedding band. If you fail at a startup, everything you've learned can be applied towards more stable jobs in the tech industry. Now, I wouldn't advocate dropping out of school necessarily. But taking a year or two off to try your hand at a startup, and then go back if it doesn't take off? That doesn't seem too unreasonable; there are people who decide to take a year or two off before college to make some money and get some working experience.
joe_the_user 16y ago
Only a bit off little topic, I'd say... The current problem isn't that people drop-out with the hope of becoming Mark Zuckerberg. The problem is that currently school offers rather very little for an extremely high price. I know someone who dropped out of a psychology PhD program with $100K debt. Perhaps she should have dropped out sooner.
j_baker 16y ago
Yes, dropping out of college to start a company is risky. However, if you can't handle that risk are you sure you can handle the risk of starting a startup? Don't get me wrong, you're making a good argument for staying in college. However, I think it's hardly a prima facie case for staying in school.
onan_barbarian 16y ago
You forget that you can have the best of both worlds: you can join a startup and become a Rock Star Programmer. Possibly also some sort of Ninja! More seriously: nothing wrong with taking a swing. The main problem is not the people who take risks to begin with. It's the ones who don't know when to quit and carry on a failed plan to the point of turning their lives into a parody - the difference between a couple years off and a decade spent mucking around getting nowhere.
pak 16y ago
Somebody I knew from high school dropped out of college to became a hugely successful Grammy-winning artist. It's unlikely, but possible.

luminarious 16y ago

If you do the same thing everyone else is doing, you will fail. If you work really hard, you will perhaps fail to a lesser degree than everybody else. But the only way to win is to play your own game.

jasonkester 16y ago
Play your own game, but stack the deck in your favor. It's no great feat to bootstrap a software business from within a company paying you $100k fresh out of school.
joe_the_user 16y ago
If you play a typical game in normal fashion, you lose when losing is typical. If you play reasonably well in a game where modest success is typical, you will likely get modest success. Most people who play absolutely their own game lose too. Most big successes play a game where winning is typical and play it better than average. There's a "sweet spot" of self-expression and following the crowd but it's still fairly close to the crowd.

rythie 16y ago

You don't say what eventually happened to those people, you learn the best by failing. A teacher at my school was in signed band in the early 90s, released a couple of albums, travelled the world though ultimately their second album flopped. He still had time to train as a teacher before hitting 30. He got a lot of respect from the kids in class as a result of being in that band. The former U.K. prime minister was in a band in his youth which failed, doesn't seem like he did too badly afterwards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Rumours_(band) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugly_Rumours_(band)

Mc_Big_G 16y ago

I was one of those guys and if I hadn't given it a shot, I would have regretted it for the rest of my life. I learned some hard lessons and then went to college and got a bachelor's in engineering. Okay, so I put off financial security for a few years, but I have a lot of great memories and the satisfaction of knowing I had the balls to try. No regrets. From the condescending tone of your post, it seems you think you're better than all those guys who pursued their dream. You're wrong and I salute each and every one of them. What fun is life if you don't take chances?

agentultra 16y ago
Right on. I dropped out of high-school to work at a web company programming in perl. I was ensconced with the idea of doing something I usually tinkered with at three in the morning while trying not to wake up my mother AND making a butt-load of cash doing it (at least for a teenager). The crash came about a year later and I had to go back to finish school so I could get into college. That was a little embarrassing, but I got through it... ... and did it again. Fast-tracked a year of audio engineering and thought I could start up a label and produce records. Started my own business this time. sigh I wouldn't get back into programming for a few years, but I say it was worth it. Now I love programming, but who knows? In a few years I might want to be building hot-rods or running an expat cafe in some foreign country. You only get to live once. UPDATE: edited for spelling/grammar/clarity
asdaqqp 16y ago
There is difference between starting a credible business (not another Zynga or Posterous ) and starting a rock band. Good busineses require a lot of knowledge about engineering and world in general. Everyone here recommending dropping out of college is clearly delusional. What the fuck a freshman knows, even if a student is computer genius, college is essential to learn about how world works. To all the folks who are commenting like stupid about how they learnt nothing from college, I suggest them to find few people who couldn't go to college and talk to them. And Oh btw Steve Jobs dropped out because he didnt have money and Zukerberg studied at Exter and Harvard, similar with Bill Gates. When they both dropped out, they had good connections as well as parents capable of bank rolling them. If you are a an 18 year of HTML CSS RUBY PHP educated kid, please dont listen to this crap. Go to a good school and get a degree in engineering and minor in business or economics.

lambda 16y ago

There's a big difference between working on a startup and trying to be a rock star. Even if you fail at a startup, you have learned a wide array of skills in the process. You have gotten hands-on experience with a variety of technologies. You have learned, through experience, some lessons on making products for a customer. You've learned something about business, and finance, and investing. If you fail at being a rock star, well, you have some skills at playing the guitar, and can go on to being a mediocre guitar teacher or work in a wedding band. If you fail at a startup, everything you've learned can be applied towards more stable jobs in the tech industry. Now, I wouldn't advocate dropping out of school necessarily. But taking a year or two off to try your hand at a startup, and then go back if it doesn't take off? That doesn't seem too unreasonable; there are people who decide to take a year or two off before college to make some money and get some working experience.

joe_the_user 16y ago

Only a bit off little topic, I'd say... The current problem isn't that people drop-out with the hope of becoming Mark Zuckerberg. The problem is that currently school offers rather very little for an extremely high price. I know someone who dropped out of a psychology PhD program with $100K debt. Perhaps she should have dropped out sooner.

j_baker 16y ago

Yes, dropping out of college to start a company is risky. However, if you can't handle that risk are you sure you can handle the risk of starting a startup? Don't get me wrong, you're making a good argument for staying in college. However, I think it's hardly a prima facie case for staying in school.

onan_barbarian 16y ago

You forget that you can have the best of both worlds: you can join a startup and become a Rock Star Programmer. Possibly also some sort of Ninja! More seriously: nothing wrong with taking a swing. The main problem is not the people who take risks to begin with. It's the ones who don't know when to quit and carry on a failed plan to the point of turning their lives into a parody - the difference between a couple years off and a decade spent mucking around getting nowhere.

pak 16y ago

Somebody I knew from high school dropped out of college to became a hugely successful Grammy-winning artist. It's unlikely, but possible.