4 ms·

Sort of a side issue, but something I've never understood: According to http://fortune.com/2017/06/29/google-2017-diversity-report/ http://fortune.com/2017/06/2

Sort of a side issue, but something I've never understood: According to http://fortune.com/2017/06/29/google-2017-diversity-report/ http://fortune.com/2017/06/29/google-2017-diversity-report/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States, 56% of Google employees are white compared to 77% of the US population. Doesn't that mean that racial minorities are actually overrepresented at Google? Or am I understanding the statistics wrong?

trjordan 8y ago
White Americans includes hispanic and non-hispanic. In particular, though, the only over-represented group is asians: 35% vs 5%.
- rubicon33 8y ago
  Really? Every form I've ever seen has had a separate check box for "Latino / Hispanic"...
  - adventured 8y ago
    It's not uncommon. The 77% figure quoted in the top comment includes Hispanics ("White Hispanics"). The White non-Hispanic population is 62%.
  - harimau777 8y ago
    I think often there's an option for race and then a separate option for Latino/Non-Latino. I would guess that most Latino people would probably be White and Latino, although its not something I'm super knowledgeable about.
    - Lazare 8y ago
      Most people in the "Hispanic or Latino" group would also be in the "White" group, although there are not insignificant numbers of black or asian hispanics. Also keep in mind that in official US usage that term basically means "someone from a Spanish cultural background OR a Latin American country". Although some agencies specifically exclude countries from Latin America without a Spanish or Portuguese culture. So a white guy whose grandparents immigrated from Spain counts (the grandparents spoke Spanish), and a Quechua from Bolivia who recently immigrated and only speaks Runasimi counts (Bolivia has a Spanish culture), and a black guy from Guyana might count. The OMB says no (Guyana was colonised by the British), but the Census says yes (it's in South America, so close enough). The system makes very little sense.
- tathougies 8y ago
  Although to be fair, Asians constitute 15% of the population of California as a whole.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
East and South Asian minorities are greatly overrepresented compared to their proportion of the US population as a whole.
oh_sigh 8y ago
Only two very special types of racial minorities are over-represented - Indians and east asians(specifically Chinese) are overrepresented relative to their US population. These groups are generally forgotten about or elided when talking about how Google or US tech has a diversity problem - there is just a diversity problem with blacks, latinos, and women, and my hunch is that it has nothing to do with tech being racist or sexist and has everything to do with either larger structural issues in the US, or people choosing through free will to not enter the field.
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  Then you haven't read enough on the matter. All STEM fields have a problem, but other STEM fields pale in comparison to tech's racism/sexism. As a hunch, yes I used to be of that opinion as well. I thought it was nonsense. Sorry that I don't have the data handy to back it up, but seriously (not being snide) if you care enough to matter you can research it.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    I have researched it and have come to the exact opposite conclusion. I don't know what data you are referring to, but I hope you aren't just taking low representation to directly imply racism.
ProfessorLayton 8y ago
Seeing as most of Google's technical workforce is in CA, specifically the Bay Area, it would make more sense to compare to compare to the population surrounding HQ rather than the US as a whole.
- harimau777 8y ago
  Good call. According to: http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm it looks like 52% are White (42.4% White and Non-Hispanic), 23% are Asian, and 6% as African American. So this would suggest that the difference between Google and the Bay Area is still significant but not as much as between Google and America as a whole.
  - adventured 8y ago
    There are two plausible arguments there. You either have to go one step further and break that down by available tech talent to be recruited, with the premise being that you can't magically manifest a certain % of white/hispanic/black/asian tech employees if they're not available locally (eg if the population is 12% hispanic, but only 5% of the tech employees available locally are hispanic; that presents a very difficult recruiting scenario). Or the argument is that a company like Google can afford to recruit nationally and relocate whatever demographics they see fit to the bay area, such that local restrictions do not apply as much to them. If the local bay area pool of tech talent is 3% black, and the national pool is 6% black, Google can afford to relocate black employees from around the US to bolster their diversity efforts locally if that's their aim.
- euyyn 8y ago
  On the other hand, I'd say most of the population surrounding the Google HQ are there because they got employed by Google or another tech company, not the other way around. The pool of candidates for these companies is global (restricted to the quotas the visas allow).
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
shiado 8y ago
It's best not to bring a rational numerical argument to the table in an area of contention that is owned exclusively by irrational emotional reactions about which groups in society are perceived to be the most disadvantaged. The fact is you can't really have a discussion when every party comes to the table with different feelings instead of numbers.
masterleep 8y ago
Asians don't count because argle bargle word salad.
Lazare 8y ago
In American terminology, minority status depends on your "racial category", "ethnicity", and your gender, among other things. There are six officially recognised racial categories: White, African American, American Indian/Alaskan Native, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Other Pacific Islander. There are two official ethnicities: Hispanic and Latino Americans, and Not Hispanic and Latino. (Note: Hispanic is actually a cultural group, not an ethnicity, and in the real world the terms hispanic and latino are orthogonal. Try not to think about it too hard) Most hispanics and latinos are officially categorised as white. That means that whenever you see the term "white" you'll need to do some further digging to see if that means the official "white term (including most hispanics), or if it's a short hand for "white, non-hispanic and latino". The 77% you cite as "white" includes latinos; the number you probably are looking for is 61%. The 56% in google's numbers seems to exclude latino's, so the comparison is probably 56% to 61%. (Probably!) Also note that if your goal is equity for all groups, it doesn't make much sense to average minorities together. The Hispanic and latino group (including both whites and non-whites) makes up 18% of the US population, but the apparent matching group at Google makes up 4% of their employee base. Conversely, Asians make up about 5% of the US population, but apparently around 35% of Google's employee base using the closest equivalent measure. Clearly Google shouldn't get a pass for discriminating against hispanics (if that is indeed what they're doing) purely because they discriminate in favour of Asians (if that is indeed what they're doing). > Doesn't that mean that racial minorities are actually overrepresented at Google? Some (well, one) are. Others are not. Non-hispanic white's are broadly in line with the major population share.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Really great comment. With regard to Asian overrepresentation and Latino/Hispanic underrepresentation, I think there's a really good chance that how those respective immigrant groups came to be in the United States probably has a large role to play in this disparity. East and South Asian immigrants have to cross an ocean to get here, whereas most Latino/Hispanic immigrants could cross a land border (on foot in many cases!). The disparity in wealth required to pursue these alternate immigration paths probably significantly skews the class mixture of these groups and, thus, their representation in white collar professions.
cleanyourroom 8y ago
Since world class engineers are perfectly distributed throughout the population regardless of age, sex, race, education, interest, and geography, it is a travesty that Google doesn't look like a random sample of Americans.

trjordan 8y ago

White Americans includes hispanic and non-hispanic. In particular, though, the only over-represented group is asians: 35% vs 5%.

rubicon33 8y ago
Really? Every form I've ever seen has had a separate check box for "Latino / Hispanic"...
- adventured 8y ago
  It's not uncommon. The 77% figure quoted in the top comment includes Hispanics ("White Hispanics"). The White non-Hispanic population is 62%.
- harimau777 8y ago
  I think often there's an option for race and then a separate option for Latino/Non-Latino. I would guess that most Latino people would probably be White and Latino, although its not something I'm super knowledgeable about.
  - Lazare 8y ago
    Most people in the "Hispanic or Latino" group would also be in the "White" group, although there are not insignificant numbers of black or asian hispanics. Also keep in mind that in official US usage that term basically means "someone from a Spanish cultural background OR a Latin American country". Although some agencies specifically exclude countries from Latin America without a Spanish or Portuguese culture. So a white guy whose grandparents immigrated from Spain counts (the grandparents spoke Spanish), and a Quechua from Bolivia who recently immigrated and only speaks Runasimi counts (Bolivia has a Spanish culture), and a black guy from Guyana might count. The OMB says no (Guyana was colonised by the British), but the Census says yes (it's in South America, so close enough). The system makes very little sense.
tathougies 8y ago
Although to be fair, Asians constitute 15% of the population of California as a whole.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

East and South Asian minorities are greatly overrepresented compared to their proportion of the US population as a whole.

oh_sigh 8y ago

Only two very special types of racial minorities are over-represented - Indians and east asians(specifically Chinese) are overrepresented relative to their US population. These groups are generally forgotten about or elided when talking about how Google or US tech has a diversity problem - there is just a diversity problem with blacks, latinos, and women, and my hunch is that it has nothing to do with tech being racist or sexist and has everything to do with either larger structural issues in the US, or people choosing through free will to not enter the field.

jiveturkey 8y ago
Then you haven't read enough on the matter. All STEM fields have a problem, but other STEM fields pale in comparison to tech's racism/sexism. As a hunch, yes I used to be of that opinion as well. I thought it was nonsense. Sorry that I don't have the data handy to back it up, but seriously (not being snide) if you care enough to matter you can research it.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  I have researched it and have come to the exact opposite conclusion. I don't know what data you are referring to, but I hope you aren't just taking low representation to directly imply racism.

ProfessorLayton 8y ago

Seeing as most of Google's technical workforce is in CA, specifically the Bay Area, it would make more sense to compare to compare to the population surrounding HQ rather than the US as a whole.

harimau777 8y ago
Good call. According to: http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm it looks like 52% are White (42.4% White and Non-Hispanic), 23% are Asian, and 6% as African American. So this would suggest that the difference between Google and the Bay Area is still significant but not as much as between Google and America as a whole.
- adventured 8y ago
  There are two plausible arguments there. You either have to go one step further and break that down by available tech talent to be recruited, with the premise being that you can't magically manifest a certain % of white/hispanic/black/asian tech employees if they're not available locally (eg if the population is 12% hispanic, but only 5% of the tech employees available locally are hispanic; that presents a very difficult recruiting scenario). Or the argument is that a company like Google can afford to recruit nationally and relocate whatever demographics they see fit to the bay area, such that local restrictions do not apply as much to them. If the local bay area pool of tech talent is 3% black, and the national pool is 6% black, Google can afford to relocate black employees from around the US to bolster their diversity efforts locally if that's their aim.
euyyn 8y ago
On the other hand, I'd say most of the population surrounding the Google HQ are there because they got employed by Google or another tech company, not the other way around. The pool of candidates for these companies is global (restricted to the quotas the visas allow).
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago

shiado 8y ago

It's best not to bring a rational numerical argument to the table in an area of contention that is owned exclusively by irrational emotional reactions about which groups in society are perceived to be the most disadvantaged. The fact is you can't really have a discussion when every party comes to the table with different feelings instead of numbers.

masterleep 8y ago

Asians don't count because argle bargle word salad.

Lazare 8y ago

In American terminology, minority status depends on your "racial category", "ethnicity", and your gender, among other things. There are six officially recognised racial categories: White, African American, American Indian/Alaskan Native, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Other Pacific Islander. There are two official ethnicities: Hispanic and Latino Americans, and Not Hispanic and Latino. (Note: Hispanic is actually a cultural group, not an ethnicity, and in the real world the terms hispanic and latino are orthogonal. Try not to think about it too hard) Most hispanics and latinos are officially categorised as white. That means that whenever you see the term "white" you'll need to do some further digging to see if that means the official "white term (including most hispanics), or if it's a short hand for "white, non-hispanic and latino". The 77% you cite as "white" includes latinos; the number you probably are looking for is 61%. The 56% in google's numbers seems to exclude latino's, so the comparison is probably 56% to 61%. (Probably!) Also note that if your goal is equity for all groups, it doesn't make much sense to average minorities together. The Hispanic and latino group (including both whites and non-whites) makes up 18% of the US population, but the apparent matching group at Google makes up 4% of their employee base. Conversely, Asians make up about 5% of the US population, but apparently around 35% of Google's employee base using the closest equivalent measure. Clearly Google shouldn't get a pass for discriminating against hispanics (if that is indeed what they're doing) purely because they discriminate in favour of Asians (if that is indeed what they're doing). > Doesn't that mean that racial minorities are actually overrepresented at Google? Some (well, one) are. Others are not. Non-hispanic white's are broadly in line with the major population share.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Really great comment. With regard to Asian overrepresentation and Latino/Hispanic underrepresentation, I think there's a really good chance that how those respective immigrant groups came to be in the United States probably has a large role to play in this disparity. East and South Asian immigrants have to cross an ocean to get here, whereas most Latino/Hispanic immigrants could cross a land border (on foot in many cases!). The disparity in wealth required to pursue these alternate immigration paths probably significantly skews the class mixture of these groups and, thus, their representation in white collar professions.

cleanyourroom 8y ago

Since world class engineers are perfectly distributed throughout the population regardless of age, sex, race, education, interest, and geography, it is a travesty that Google doesn't look like a random sample of Americans.