16 ms·

I agree, my biggest concerns are: 1. What is happening to Atom? I have tried VS code and don't really like it due to the difference in how the 2 systems are de

I agree, my biggest concerns are: 1. What is happening to Atom? I have tried VS code and don't really like it due to the difference in how the 2 systems are designed to work (Atom being more "plugins are king", VSCode being more "kitchen sink included by first-party"). I'd hate to see my favorite editor lose it's major backing. If MS makes a commitment to continue to develop Atom, or they work with someone else to "transfer" development over to them in a way that's not half-assed, it would go a LONG way toward solidifying the trust they are trying to build (at least to me). 2. How will other companies who are hosting on GitHub react to this? Will Facebook/Google/Apple start pulling their code from GitHub? Will we go back to having to learn how to contribute to each project individually? There's definitely major benefits for diversity in this area (meaning not having the vast majority of projects on one platform), but I'm hoping we (as developers in whole) don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. GitHub has by most accounts helped bring in a renaissance of open source software. It's never been easier to contribute to FOSS at any level, and I'm hoping we don't lose that as everyone diversifies where they host their source code...

johannes1234321 8y ago
> Will Facebook/Google/Apple start pulling their code from GitHub? For these companies who owned GitHub hardly plays a role. They want to attract developers and go wherever the crowds go. If there is mass migration to mercurial-superhost.com they will follow. It's just an outlet. The question is more relevant for companies and communities who built their infrastructure on it and might worry for good or not so good reasons.
- superflyguy 8y ago
  "For these companies who owned GitHub hardly plays a role. They want to attract developers and go wherever the crowds go. If there is mass migration to mercurial-superhost.com they will follow. It's just an outlet. No-one's going to join a company because of which front end to git they use. It's more a question "do Apple/facebook etc want Microsoft to have all of their private source code to look for exploits/rip off/hand over the government etc etc"?
  - mseebach 8y ago
    First, as pointed out elsewhere, the Apple/Facebooks of the world already aren't putting their private repos on any external service (perhaps they rent iron on a cloud, but certainly not SaaS). Second, this is the same business model as Office 365, and I'm not aware of that raising any particular eyebrows outside of the fairly limited crowd that can't trust anyone. If you're cool with entrusting your email to Microsoft, your source code is not a great leap.
- cobookman 8y ago
  I think public code will still live on github, but I See FAANG 100% avoiding any private github repos from now on.
  - johannes1234321 8y ago
    They already did. Except maybe for test setups and to configure a project before announcing it. All those companies keep their privates private. GitHub is just a public showroom for them. Again this is different for other/smaller companies.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Ah, I think that's how it's always been. What's the difference between me running my small company out of Azure, and keeping the source code in GitHub, now that Microsoft owns it? Nothing changes immediately for any of us, to me the biggest concern is what happens after those roadmapped projects have run through. What goes next on that roadmap, and will it stick to the principles I love about GitHub, or will it start to veer into Microsoft's territory?
  - SiVal 8y ago
    Bigger tech companies not only do not host important private source code on Github but won't even host on outsourced physical servers. Where I've worked (incl. well-known names), information that we wanted spread to the world could be hosted on trusted external systems (trust still mattered to keep it from being "edited"), but non-public info was always hosted inside a physical building that we owned watched 24/7 by human guards we employed.
    - hirsin 8y ago
      Not entirely true. Microsoft puts (almost? Yet to find anything that isn't) all our code on VSTS which is accessible remotely, without VPN. I've checked in a (very very minor docs) fix to the Windows code base from my Android phone over LTE.
      - 8y ago
- raywu 8y ago
  I thought they already have their own version control systems?
justadudeama 8y ago
This is my thinking as well. Do I bail ship to gitlab and support more open software, or do I try to stay centralized?
- Klathmon 8y ago
  Personally, I'm not "bailing" from anywhere. I am however using this as an opportunity to rely on any one single place less. I'm in the process of mirroring my git repos on GitLab, and trying to think of a way to signify that both the GitHub and GitLab repos are "canonical", and that issues/PRs/contributions can happen at both.
  - VectorLock 8y ago
    Sounds like that would be a pain having that kind of work done in two places.
    - mathgeek 8y ago
      Which is rather unfortunate for something that all revolves around git.
  - chrisweekly 8y ago
    I do not think the word "canonical" means what you think it means.
    - Klathmon 8y ago
      > accepted as being accurate and authoritative. > synonyms: recognized, authoritative, authorized, accepted, sanctioned That's what I meant for it to mean anyway...
      - chrisweekly 8y ago
        In software the "authoritative" aspect of the definition is crucial. How can two different endpoints both be authoritative? What happens if they differ?
bitL 8y ago
I wouldn't be worried about Atom; half of Facebook is using it; if anything were to happen, they would fork it.
- Klathmon 8y ago
  While i'm confident that Atom will not "die" any time soon, if MS pulls the team that's currently working on new features and reassigns them, then at best it's going to be a large blow to the project. A fork won't have the same team working on it, a fork won't have the same domain knowledge over the internals, a fork won't have the roadmap or what was currently planned and how to do it, a fork won't have the same unified development effort (if MS "kills" atom, FB won't be the only one picking it up, there will absolutely be others that won't like the direction FB is taking, and now you don't just have Atom, you have AtomFB, Atom2, NuAtom, etc...) It won't be that big of a deal at the end of the day (it's not like there is a shortage of competition in this area), but I would be much more on-board with this if MS handles Atom well.
  - bitL 8y ago
    Nuclide (https://nuclide.io https://nuclide.io) is what FB uses/develops internally. I think even if the original team departs, they are going to be just fine. They could hire the original team right away if needed.
  - Rapzid 8y ago
    MS wouldn't pull the team; it would be GitHub that pulls the team. GitHub is operating as an independent company.
    - Piskvorrr 8y ago
      It is, now. A year down the road...?
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  So MS is just going to pay engineer salaries to maintain a free tool used by FB?
kbumsik 8y ago
> What is happening to Atom? Since they said Github will remain independent, so Atom will, I think. Maybe I'm too optimistic but when I think about VSCode's business model, promoting Azure rather than selling the editor itself, they have no reason to kill Atom. They might be integrating Azure with Atom.
- wolco 8y ago
  This is exactly what they will do. Make it easier to connect to azure. It might just work.
bdcravens 8y ago
> There's definitely major benefits for diversity in this area (meaning not having the vast majority of projects on one platform), but I'm hoping we (as developers in whole) don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Perhaps tooling can help with this. Github, Bitbucket, and Gitlab (and I presume some of the lesser used solutions out there) all support some type of forking and pull request model, even though that's not core git. An abstraction layer atop that can hopefully obviate a hard dependency on one platform.
trynewideas 8y ago
I'm more interested in how companies with private repos on GitHub react.
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  Especially those that compete with MS or their subsidiaries. But then again, Netflix uses AWS, so who knows?
  - rad_gruchalski 8y ago
    I don’t understand your comment about Netflix using AWS. AFAIR, Netflix is a reference customer for AWS. Every re:invent is full of Netflix people. Care to elaborate?
    - Marysville 8y ago
      Netflix is paying money to its competitor. i.e. Amazon Prime Video.
      - voltagex_ 8y ago
        Does Prime Video actually make money? It seems like a side project compared to some other Amazon stuff.
    - jonny_eh 8y ago
      Amazon is Netflix's largest competitor.
- com2kid 8y ago
  Companies that complete with MS still use Windows, Sharepoint, Office 365, and OneDrive. Microsoft isn't going to go around snooping competitors' source code any more than they are going to go around snooping competitors' email.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
rmason 8y ago
Obviously Microsoft doesn't want or need two open source editors. I think the smart move would be what I call the Adobe strategy. Github should announce that Atom has become an Apache foundation project. Github then says it will provide x number of developers for an initial three year period. Probably won't make everyone happy but it should defuse most of the angst.
- politician 8y ago
  Ah yes, Apache Foundation, the place where ambitious but under-resourced projects go to die. /s
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    You joke but, for the vast majority of projects, it's kind of true. It's gotten to the point where, if it's not out of incubator, I have a really hard time convincing any one of my colleagues to put any time into projects hosted there.
  - rmason 8y ago
    I've got a few friends that are still very involved in the Flex community which is now at the Apache foundation. Adobe if I remember correctly is still funding staffers to work on Flex many years later. I believe Flex is either the second or third most successful project at Apache in terms of downloads.
    - maire 8y ago
      RE> I believe Flex is either the second or third most successful project at Apache in terms of downloads. How can that be given that Adobe is killing the flash runtime?
      - rmason 8y ago
        The team has created a ActionScript to JavaScript compiler so it will have a future without the Flash runtime. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Flex+JS https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Flex+JS
adrianmalacoda 8y ago
Fellow Atom user here. According to Lee Dohm, Open Source Community Manager at GitHub, "Atom remains key to GitHub. Our product roadmap is set, and the team will continue all of their work." [0] [0] https://github.com/atom/atom/issues/17454#issuecomment-394421141 https://github.com/atom/atom/issues/17454#issuecomment-39442...
- HelloNurse 8y ago
  A product roadmap is set until it changes. "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further". Besides, Microsoft has enough PR skills to avoid unpleasant announcements about redundant products for a while after an acquisition they know to be worrying.
- pbarnes_1 8y ago
  Until the deal closes. Then... who knows.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    The really nasty changes always seem to come at the beginning of the second fiscal year after acquisition. So meet me back here in 18 months and we’ll talk.
- zilchers 8y ago
  I actually really like Visual Studio Code, I could imagine a great product coming out of the marriage of Code and Atom. I could also imagine infighting killing Atom, but I’ll try to be optimistic.
- hinkley 8y ago
  In a buyout, always be sensitive to situations where promises of status quo come from someone who is not in control of the situation. Quite common for new owners to let old employees make promises they can’t keep and then make them disappear and change plans.
  - Lordarminius 8y ago
sequoia 8y ago
> Atom I could be wrong but my perception is that Atom is losing market share to VSCode all on its own– new devs are much more likely to adopt vscode & no growth ~= decline for an editor. Couple that with the fact that no one pays for Atom... IMO They don't need to "kill" atom, they just need to wait a couple years, at which point it will just Yet Another Editor down the list with TextWrangler et al., if the next Atom doesn't come along and hasten its decline even further.
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  This sounds entirely anecdotal. I haven't seen any significant exodus from Atom to VSCode among people I interact with. It seems like folks moving from other editors are about as likely to choose Atom as VSCode, and the things that used to lead to people choosing one or the other (i.e. performance, VSCode only opening one project at a time, the stupid huge icon bar in VSCode, etc.) have been resolved...Atom is now reasonably fast, VSCode can open multiple projects and you can close the stupid bar. I tried them both and ended up with Atom (and vim, where I actually still do most of my work, but new JavaScript projects are in Atom). Atom still has more plugins, or did last time I looked (which was, admittedly, quite a while ago), and I think the ecosystem is a good indicator of how many people are actively using something.
  - apk-d 8y ago
    The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey [1] puts VSCode at almost double the number of developers compared to Atom (34.9% vs 18%). You're right about the package count: atom.io lists 7654 packages, compared to 6802 at marketplace.visualstudio.com, many of those being color themes (some seem generated and machine-published, too). That said, workflow for extension authoring in VSCode is amazing, the community is very much alive, and sometimes it almost feels like there's an "extension for everything". Quality may vary, naturally. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/ https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/
    - SwellJoe 8y ago
      Wow, that's surprising. VSCode is not just (far) ahead of Atom, it's the leader on that survey. I'll have to give it another look. Last time I used it, it had far too many annoying characteristics.
mtgx 8y ago
My biggest concern is that the FBI has turned Microsoft into a "one-stop shop" for its National Security Letters, which at one point represented 40 percent of all the requests Microsoft got from the FBI. How will Microsoft/GitHub handle such secret requests? Will Microsoft even sue the DoJ to stop it - or will they settle again the moment they obtain a small compromise from the government?
ljm 8y ago
I'm curious if Electron will get a boost of some kind now. Considering how famous/notorious it is, MS could get a hell of a lot of goodwill here if they invest in the tech.
- chickenfries 8y ago
  Wouldn't that mostly look like an investment in v8?
  - ljm 8y ago
    Or a common API where it uses Chakra on Windows and V8 everywhere else, until someone plugs in Webkit or some other engine for other OS'. Wishful thinking :)
- Rapzid 8y ago
  I'm sure we can look forward to the next electronconf not being cancelled.
- bitwize 8y ago
  More likely, they will make the new, NEW Windows API essentially Electron. Instantly Electron apps run better on Windows because each app doesn't have its own browser runtime taking ip disk/RAM.
  - contextfree 8y ago
    The Microsoft/Windows implementation of PWA is already basically this
    - Piskvorrr 8y ago
      They're reinventing HTA, in other words. Oh the horror!
- uiri 8y ago
  (consumer) Skype is famously Electron based. Microsoft has already been investing heavily in the project and I think we will see them double down on their commitment now that they own GitHub.
theyinwhy 8y ago
Contributing has always been different for each project and I don't see any real benefit by using github regarding that topic. Biggest hurdles normally are: - big chunk, own branch, small chunks? - Contract to sign? - signed commits, unsigned commits? - changelog file? - patch via mail? - extra review tool? ... In the end it's always a git push. Github only makes it look more beautiful.
k__ 8y ago
I had the impression VSCode had the technical superior plugin system and I found it much more performant. Atom had more plugins for some time, but they had mediocre quality.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  > I found it much more performant Sincere question: Does "more performant" simply mean "faster"?
  - k__ 8y ago
    Oh. sorry. I meant, I found it much more responsive.
- grumdan 8y ago
  > I had the impression VSCode had the technical superior plugin system From my very limited exposure to VSCode's plugins, it seems they are a lot more limited in how they can change the editor's behavior compared to elisp code in Emacs[1]; if Atom plugins are similarly flexible, then I'm not sure you can say it's (strictly) technically superior if you can only implement a small subset of what you can do in competitor's system. At most it's better at some tasks and worse at others if this is the case. [1] I didn't say "Emacs plugins" since there is no distinction between user-written elisp code and core editor elisp code and you don't need to create any plugin project or such, which I think makes for a much more organic and pleasant customization experience.
  - k__ 8y ago
    I meant superior to Atom and not to Emacs. As far as I know, the VSCode plugins run in their own process, which makes the editor much more responsive when it loaded many plugins.
    - grumdan 8y ago
      I was assuming that Atom extensions were similarly powerful as in Emacs, if that's not the case, then my point is moot. I agree that restricting what plugins can do can lead to better stability and speed at the expense of extensibility.
techsin101 8y ago
> I agree, my biggest concerns are: > 1. What is happening to Atom? I have tried VS code and don't really like it due to the difference in how the 2 systems are designed to work (Atom being more "plugins are king", VSCode being more "kitchen sink included by first-party"). I'd hate to see my favorite editor lose it's major backing. If MS makes a commitment to continue to develop Atom, or they work with someone else to "transfer" development over to them in a way that's not half-assed, it would go a LONG way toward solidifying the trust they are trying to build (at least to me). > 2. How will other companies who are hosting on GitHub react to this? Will Facebook/Google/Apple start pulling their code from GitHub? Will we go back to having to learn how to contribute to each project individually? > There's definitely major benefits for diversity in this area (meaning not having the vast majority of projects on one platform), but I'm hoping we (as developers in whole) don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. > GitHub has by most accounts helped bring in a renaissance of open source software. It's never been easier to contribute to FOSS at any level, and I'm hoping we don't lose that as everyone diversifies where they host their source code... I started with sublime, went to atom, went back to sublime, and finally moved to vscode.. trust me you can't go wrong. It has everything and extensions. It's everything I wished for.
sjellis 8y ago
> 1. What is happening to Atom? Funnily enough, this was my immediate concern, followed by Electron generally. It actually prompted me to go all-in on Vim: I've used Vim in terminals for a very long time, but never found a graphical Vim that I liked. Happily, I've now found Oni, which provides a VS Code-like interface around Neovim: https://www.onivim.io https://www.onivim.io Git hosting and the associated tools are replaceable, the strength of GitHub is the network effect, so we'll have to see what happens. Regardless of what happens, we've progressed a long way from Subversion and BugZilla, so I don't mind if projects move to a more diverse set of modern hosting. Personally, I'll put my own public repositories whereever the community goes.

johannes1234321 8y ago

> Will Facebook/Google/Apple start pulling their code from GitHub? For these companies who owned GitHub hardly plays a role. They want to attract developers and go wherever the crowds go. If there is mass migration to mercurial-superhost.com they will follow. It's just an outlet. The question is more relevant for companies and communities who built their infrastructure on it and might worry for good or not so good reasons.

superflyguy 8y ago
"For these companies who owned GitHub hardly plays a role. They want to attract developers and go wherever the crowds go. If there is mass migration to mercurial-superhost.com they will follow. It's just an outlet. No-one's going to join a company because of which front end to git they use. It's more a question "do Apple/facebook etc want Microsoft to have all of their private source code to look for exploits/rip off/hand over the government etc etc"?
- mseebach 8y ago
  First, as pointed out elsewhere, the Apple/Facebooks of the world already aren't putting their private repos on any external service (perhaps they rent iron on a cloud, but certainly not SaaS). Second, this is the same business model as Office 365, and I'm not aware of that raising any particular eyebrows outside of the fairly limited crowd that can't trust anyone. If you're cool with entrusting your email to Microsoft, your source code is not a great leap.
cobookman 8y ago
I think public code will still live on github, but I See FAANG 100% avoiding any private github repos from now on.
- johannes1234321 8y ago
  They already did. Except maybe for test setups and to configure a project before announcing it. All those companies keep their privates private. GitHub is just a public showroom for them. Again this is different for other/smaller companies.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    Ah, I think that's how it's always been. What's the difference between me running my small company out of Azure, and keeping the source code in GitHub, now that Microsoft owns it? Nothing changes immediately for any of us, to me the biggest concern is what happens after those roadmapped projects have run through. What goes next on that roadmap, and will it stick to the principles I love about GitHub, or will it start to veer into Microsoft's territory?
- SiVal 8y ago
  Bigger tech companies not only do not host important private source code on Github but won't even host on outsourced physical servers. Where I've worked (incl. well-known names), information that we wanted spread to the world could be hosted on trusted external systems (trust still mattered to keep it from being "edited"), but non-public info was always hosted inside a physical building that we owned watched 24/7 by human guards we employed.
  - hirsin 8y ago
    Not entirely true. Microsoft puts (almost? Yet to find anything that isn't) all our code on VSTS which is accessible remotely, without VPN. I've checked in a (very very minor docs) fix to the Windows code base from my Android phone over LTE.
    - 8y ago
raywu 8y ago
I thought they already have their own version control systems?

justadudeama 8y ago

This is my thinking as well. Do I bail ship to gitlab and support more open software, or do I try to stay centralized?

Klathmon 8y ago
Personally, I'm not "bailing" from anywhere. I am however using this as an opportunity to rely on any one single place less. I'm in the process of mirroring my git repos on GitLab, and trying to think of a way to signify that both the GitHub and GitLab repos are "canonical", and that issues/PRs/contributions can happen at both.
- VectorLock 8y ago
  Sounds like that would be a pain having that kind of work done in two places.
  - mathgeek 8y ago
    Which is rather unfortunate for something that all revolves around git.
- chrisweekly 8y ago
  I do not think the word "canonical" means what you think it means.
  - Klathmon 8y ago
    > accepted as being accurate and authoritative. > synonyms: recognized, authoritative, authorized, accepted, sanctioned That's what I meant for it to mean anyway...
    - chrisweekly 8y ago
      In software the "authoritative" aspect of the definition is crucial. How can two different endpoints both be authoritative? What happens if they differ?

bitL 8y ago

I wouldn't be worried about Atom; half of Facebook is using it; if anything were to happen, they would fork it.

Klathmon 8y ago
While i'm confident that Atom will not "die" any time soon, if MS pulls the team that's currently working on new features and reassigns them, then at best it's going to be a large blow to the project. A fork won't have the same team working on it, a fork won't have the same domain knowledge over the internals, a fork won't have the roadmap or what was currently planned and how to do it, a fork won't have the same unified development effort (if MS "kills" atom, FB won't be the only one picking it up, there will absolutely be others that won't like the direction FB is taking, and now you don't just have Atom, you have AtomFB, Atom2, NuAtom, etc...) It won't be that big of a deal at the end of the day (it's not like there is a shortage of competition in this area), but I would be much more on-board with this if MS handles Atom well.
- bitL 8y ago
  Nuclide (https://nuclide.io https://nuclide.io) is what FB uses/develops internally. I think even if the original team departs, they are going to be just fine. They could hire the original team right away if needed.
- Rapzid 8y ago
  MS wouldn't pull the team; it would be GitHub that pulls the team. GitHub is operating as an independent company.
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    It is, now. A year down the road...?
jonny_eh 8y ago
So MS is just going to pay engineer salaries to maintain a free tool used by FB?

kbumsik 8y ago

> What is happening to Atom? Since they said Github will remain independent, so Atom will, I think. Maybe I'm too optimistic but when I think about VSCode's business model, promoting Azure rather than selling the editor itself, they have no reason to kill Atom. They might be integrating Azure with Atom.

wolco 8y ago
This is exactly what they will do. Make it easier to connect to azure. It might just work.

bdcravens 8y ago

> There's definitely major benefits for diversity in this area (meaning not having the vast majority of projects on one platform), but I'm hoping we (as developers in whole) don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Perhaps tooling can help with this. Github, Bitbucket, and Gitlab (and I presume some of the lesser used solutions out there) all support some type of forking and pull request model, even though that's not core git. An abstraction layer atop that can hopefully obviate a hard dependency on one platform.

trynewideas 8y ago

I'm more interested in how companies with private repos on GitHub react.

jonny_eh 8y ago
Especially those that compete with MS or their subsidiaries. But then again, Netflix uses AWS, so who knows?
- rad_gruchalski 8y ago
  I don’t understand your comment about Netflix using AWS. AFAIR, Netflix is a reference customer for AWS. Every re:invent is full of Netflix people. Care to elaborate?
  - Marysville 8y ago
    Netflix is paying money to its competitor. i.e. Amazon Prime Video.
    - voltagex_ 8y ago
      Does Prime Video actually make money? It seems like a side project compared to some other Amazon stuff.
  - jonny_eh 8y ago
    Amazon is Netflix's largest competitor.
com2kid 8y ago
Companies that complete with MS still use Windows, Sharepoint, Office 365, and OneDrive. Microsoft isn't going to go around snooping competitors' source code any more than they are going to go around snooping competitors' email.
- CydeWeys 8y ago

rmason 8y ago

Obviously Microsoft doesn't want or need two open source editors. I think the smart move would be what I call the Adobe strategy. Github should announce that Atom has become an Apache foundation project. Github then says it will provide x number of developers for an initial three year period. Probably won't make everyone happy but it should defuse most of the angst.

politician 8y ago
Ah yes, Apache Foundation, the place where ambitious but under-resourced projects go to die. /s
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  You joke but, for the vast majority of projects, it's kind of true. It's gotten to the point where, if it's not out of incubator, I have a really hard time convincing any one of my colleagues to put any time into projects hosted there.
- rmason 8y ago
  I've got a few friends that are still very involved in the Flex community which is now at the Apache foundation. Adobe if I remember correctly is still funding staffers to work on Flex many years later. I believe Flex is either the second or third most successful project at Apache in terms of downloads.
  - maire 8y ago
    RE> I believe Flex is either the second or third most successful project at Apache in terms of downloads. How can that be given that Adobe is killing the flash runtime?
    - rmason 8y ago
      The team has created a ActionScript to JavaScript compiler so it will have a future without the Flash runtime. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Flex+JS https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Flex+JS

adrianmalacoda 8y ago

Fellow Atom user here. According to Lee Dohm, Open Source Community Manager at GitHub, "Atom remains key to GitHub. Our product roadmap is set, and the team will continue all of their work." [0] [0] https://github.com/atom/atom/issues/17454#issuecomment-394421141 https://github.com/atom/atom/issues/17454#issuecomment-39442...

HelloNurse 8y ago
A product roadmap is set until it changes. "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further". Besides, Microsoft has enough PR skills to avoid unpleasant announcements about redundant products for a while after an acquisition they know to be worrying.
pbarnes_1 8y ago
Until the deal closes. Then... who knows.
- hinkley 8y ago
  The really nasty changes always seem to come at the beginning of the second fiscal year after acquisition. So meet me back here in 18 months and we’ll talk.
zilchers 8y ago
I actually really like Visual Studio Code, I could imagine a great product coming out of the marriage of Code and Atom. I could also imagine infighting killing Atom, but I’ll try to be optimistic.
hinkley 8y ago
In a buyout, always be sensitive to situations where promises of status quo come from someone who is not in control of the situation. Quite common for new owners to let old employees make promises they can’t keep and then make them disappear and change plans.
- Lordarminius 8y ago

sequoia 8y ago

> Atom I could be wrong but my perception is that Atom is losing market share to VSCode all on its own– new devs are much more likely to adopt vscode & no growth ~= decline for an editor. Couple that with the fact that no one pays for Atom... IMO They don't need to "kill" atom, they just need to wait a couple years, at which point it will just Yet Another Editor down the list with TextWrangler et al., if the next Atom doesn't come along and hasten its decline even further.

SwellJoe 8y ago
This sounds entirely anecdotal. I haven't seen any significant exodus from Atom to VSCode among people I interact with. It seems like folks moving from other editors are about as likely to choose Atom as VSCode, and the things that used to lead to people choosing one or the other (i.e. performance, VSCode only opening one project at a time, the stupid huge icon bar in VSCode, etc.) have been resolved...Atom is now reasonably fast, VSCode can open multiple projects and you can close the stupid bar. I tried them both and ended up with Atom (and vim, where I actually still do most of my work, but new JavaScript projects are in Atom). Atom still has more plugins, or did last time I looked (which was, admittedly, quite a while ago), and I think the ecosystem is a good indicator of how many people are actively using something.
- apk-d 8y ago
  The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey [1] puts VSCode at almost double the number of developers compared to Atom (34.9% vs 18%). You're right about the package count: atom.io lists 7654 packages, compared to 6802 at marketplace.visualstudio.com, many of those being color themes (some seem generated and machine-published, too). That said, workflow for extension authoring in VSCode is amazing, the community is very much alive, and sometimes it almost feels like there's an "extension for everything". Quality may vary, naturally. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/ https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/
  - SwellJoe 8y ago
    Wow, that's surprising. VSCode is not just (far) ahead of Atom, it's the leader on that survey. I'll have to give it another look. Last time I used it, it had far too many annoying characteristics.

mtgx 8y ago

My biggest concern is that the FBI has turned Microsoft into a "one-stop shop" for its National Security Letters, which at one point represented 40 percent of all the requests Microsoft got from the FBI. How will Microsoft/GitHub handle such secret requests? Will Microsoft even sue the DoJ to stop it - or will they settle again the moment they obtain a small compromise from the government?

ljm 8y ago

I'm curious if Electron will get a boost of some kind now. Considering how famous/notorious it is, MS could get a hell of a lot of goodwill here if they invest in the tech.

chickenfries 8y ago
Wouldn't that mostly look like an investment in v8?
- ljm 8y ago
  Or a common API where it uses Chakra on Windows and V8 everywhere else, until someone plugs in Webkit or some other engine for other OS'. Wishful thinking :)
Rapzid 8y ago
I'm sure we can look forward to the next electronconf not being cancelled.
bitwize 8y ago
More likely, they will make the new, NEW Windows API essentially Electron. Instantly Electron apps run better on Windows because each app doesn't have its own browser runtime taking ip disk/RAM.
- contextfree 8y ago
  The Microsoft/Windows implementation of PWA is already basically this
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    They're reinventing HTA, in other words. Oh the horror!
uiri 8y ago
(consumer) Skype is famously Electron based. Microsoft has already been investing heavily in the project and I think we will see them double down on their commitment now that they own GitHub.

theyinwhy 8y ago

Contributing has always been different for each project and I don't see any real benefit by using github regarding that topic. Biggest hurdles normally are: - big chunk, own branch, small chunks? - Contract to sign? - signed commits, unsigned commits? - changelog file? - patch via mail? - extra review tool? ... In the end it's always a git push. Github only makes it look more beautiful.

k__ 8y ago

I had the impression VSCode had the technical superior plugin system and I found it much more performant. Atom had more plugins for some time, but they had mediocre quality.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
> I found it much more performant Sincere question: Does "more performant" simply mean "faster"?
- k__ 8y ago
  Oh. sorry. I meant, I found it much more responsive.
grumdan 8y ago
> I had the impression VSCode had the technical superior plugin system From my very limited exposure to VSCode's plugins, it seems they are a lot more limited in how they can change the editor's behavior compared to elisp code in Emacs[1]; if Atom plugins are similarly flexible, then I'm not sure you can say it's (strictly) technically superior if you can only implement a small subset of what you can do in competitor's system. At most it's better at some tasks and worse at others if this is the case. [1] I didn't say "Emacs plugins" since there is no distinction between user-written elisp code and core editor elisp code and you don't need to create any plugin project or such, which I think makes for a much more organic and pleasant customization experience.
- k__ 8y ago
  I meant superior to Atom and not to Emacs. As far as I know, the VSCode plugins run in their own process, which makes the editor much more responsive when it loaded many plugins.
  - grumdan 8y ago
    I was assuming that Atom extensions were similarly powerful as in Emacs, if that's not the case, then my point is moot. I agree that restricting what plugins can do can lead to better stability and speed at the expense of extensibility.

techsin101 8y ago

> I agree, my biggest concerns are: > 1. What is happening to Atom? I have tried VS code and don't really like it due to the difference in how the 2 systems are designed to work (Atom being more "plugins are king", VSCode being more "kitchen sink included by first-party"). I'd hate to see my favorite editor lose it's major backing. If MS makes a commitment to continue to develop Atom, or they work with someone else to "transfer" development over to them in a way that's not half-assed, it would go a LONG way toward solidifying the trust they are trying to build (at least to me). > 2. How will other companies who are hosting on GitHub react to this? Will Facebook/Google/Apple start pulling their code from GitHub? Will we go back to having to learn how to contribute to each project individually? > There's definitely major benefits for diversity in this area (meaning not having the vast majority of projects on one platform), but I'm hoping we (as developers in whole) don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. > GitHub has by most accounts helped bring in a renaissance of open source software. It's never been easier to contribute to FOSS at any level, and I'm hoping we don't lose that as everyone diversifies where they host their source code... I started with sublime, went to atom, went back to sublime, and finally moved to vscode.. trust me you can't go wrong. It has everything and extensions. It's everything I wished for.

sjellis 8y ago

> 1. What is happening to Atom? Funnily enough, this was my immediate concern, followed by Electron generally. It actually prompted me to go all-in on Vim: I've used Vim in terminals for a very long time, but never found a graphical Vim that I liked. Happily, I've now found Oni, which provides a VS Code-like interface around Neovim: https://www.onivim.io https://www.onivim.io Git hosting and the associated tools are replaceable, the strength of GitHub is the network effect, so we'll have to see what happens. Regardless of what happens, we've progressed a long way from Subversion and BugZilla, so I don't mind if projects move to a more diverse set of modern hosting. Personally, I'll put my own public repositories whereever the community goes.