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Ron Conway Drops A Nuclear Bomb On The Super Angels

558 points by ssclafani 16y ago

deleted 16y ago
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mikeryan 16y ago
Ron Conway rocks.
bretthellman 16y ago
"Dave McCLure…pls try not to blog about this and cause silicon valley more embarrassment with your unprofessional classless writings" OUCH
- deleted 16y ago
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- lotusleaf1987 16y ago
  I seriously don't understand how people were defending his writing style. Anyone over ninteen would realize the use of multi-colored text, "drop a cap in yo ass" lines, and lack of capitalization looks like you're lazy and incompetent. I realize he's done fairly well in his investments, but does he not have an extra 2-3 minutes to capitalize and think out more coherent analogies?
  - bretthellman 16y ago
    It makes him standout from the crowd which is his goal IMO...
    - lotusleaf1987 16y ago
      ...It makes him look childish, impatient, immature, and less credible. If you're a professional, act like one. You wouldn't turn an essay in looking like that in junior high or high school, so why is it acceptable for him?
      - bretthellman 16y ago
        I don't disagree with that.
      - philwelch 16y ago
        I'd be afraid of the answer if I asked an actual junior high school teacher which side of "average" that writing style would actually land him on in terms of a school essay.
      - iamwil 16y ago
        There's many things that make a man. His dress, his words, his actions, and these are all suppose to be a reflection of his character and integrity. Be careful which one you pick to judge a man. I'm not defending Dave's actions at this meeting, merely his writing style. I'm glad the Valley has room for the likes of Dave's writing style. The day the Valley values professionalism over actual value give is the day I leave, since I can go to Wall Street for that. Suits and the Whole Nine Yards. The second time I'll invoke Tara: "The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act." - Tara Ploughman
    - techiferous 16y ago
      Actually, being a polite gentleman will make you stand out more nowadays.
  - desigooner 16y ago
    either McClure is a really good troll, just trying to gain attention or just trying to "fit" in with the young entrepreneurs/founders .
  - codexon 16y ago
    Let's be honest here. If you had as much money as Mcclure, would you waste as much time trying to please people by bending over backwards with perfect grammar, lack of slang, and an apologetic tone? Everyone starts writing to please other people through resumes, cover letters, thank-you cards, and apologies. But once you have enough money like Mcclure, you can say "Fuck you" when you want to and not worry about losing your job. And that's exactly what he did.
    - lotusleaf1987 16y ago
      Yes, I would. It doesn't take that much more effort. Your argument is that he's too busy for punctuation to be worth his time? What about people who are more wealthy than him who manage to do so? What would you think if Warren Buffett wrote like this? He's acting like the kids in junior high who thought they were being rebellious by shopping at Hot Topic and dressing punk. He's just replaced one style for another. He's not text messaging his rant, he published it online. If he's so rich and too busy, then pay an assistant to edit it. Everything you do is a representation of yourself.
      - codexon 16y ago
        Maybe you would, that's why you're complaining about it. But my whole point is that there's more people like him that don't feel like writing perfectly. As you just admitted, it takes extra effort to write for your audience instead of writing for yourself. And why would he bother to hire an assistant to edit it? That also takes effort. Warren Buffet obviously has the choice to behave in the same manner. He also has the choice to be reckless like Larry Ellison and fly jet fighters, or be like the Koch brother's and spend millions on libertarian think-tanks to anger a large democratic populace. Or conversely, why does Buffet choose to anger countless libertarians by saying he and other billionaires should pay a higher tax rate than his secretary? If he was a truly wise businessman, he would refrain from political statements like that. My point is that wealth makes people more confident in revealing their idiosyncrasies. Whether or not you like their true personality is another story. Amusingly and relatedly I've lost over 20 karma points for telling what people don't want to hear even though I do not support Dave McClure's behavior.
  - zaidf 16y ago
    does he not have an extra 2-3 minutes to capitalize and think out more coherent analogies? The same way, I fail to realize how people don't understand that he writes in that style not because he lacks a few extra minutes but because that is a style and persona he's built over time.
    - evgen 16y ago
      How is it that someone as sharp as McClure and his posse claim him to be cannot realize that no matter how well-crafted the the persona may be, if it personifies douchebag then maybe you need to dial it back a bit.
      - zaidf 16y ago
        if it personifies douchebag It may personify douchebag to you and 82,482 other irrelevant strangers on the internet. More important, though, is what it personifies to the entrepreneurs looking to raise money. What you see as douche, many see as no-bs straightalking angel investor(whether accurate or not is irrelavant). At the end of the day, his blog is a sales pitch to entrepreneurs. And from all that I can see, he has done pretty well. ie. he's scored many deals where the entrepreneurs see him as the no-bs guy; I'm not aware of any where an entrepreneur blatantly turned him down due to his writing style. Most that claim they would never raise money from him have never raised money and never will. Conclusion: it's his style, it works for him and his goals, so he continues.
    - Devilboy 16y ago
      'Asshole' is not a style
      - zaidf 16y ago
        Don't listen to rap, then. Stick with pop.
        nocman 16y ago
        You make it sound like pop is the only alternative to rap. I happen to like some of both (along with a lot of other styles of music), but am not interested in the rants of people who are acting like jerks from either musical style. Dave McClure is free to write with the tone of a jerk all he wants. I don't know anything about him other than the post in question, but regardless of whether that's just his "style", I certainly wouldn't want to do business of any serious kind with him if it could possibly be avoided.
  - dmoney 16y ago
    His writing style's certainly drawing attention away from the issue at hand, so I'd say it works for him.
- girlzhack 16y ago
  It's crazy that even with Ron telling Dave to stop embarrassing the tech community with his unprofessional classless writing - he still did it! That in itself is truly classless
  - shadowsun7 16y ago
    I believe this email was written after Dave posted his defense of the meetup.
    - jeffb 16y ago
      Yes, but Dave's accidental tweet to the whole world came after Ron's email, didn't it? That's what really makes Dave look like a webtard - Ron told Dave not to "cause silicon valley more embarrassment with your unprofessional classless writings", and then Dave sent out a tweet doing exactly that!
      - binomial 16y ago
        That was a mistake, meant to be a direct (private) message to someone on twitter, probably a fellow "super angel".
    - gommm 16y ago
      Yes but he still did it with his tweet...
- davidmurphy 16y ago
  I gotta say, I find his profanity and weird formatting off-putting. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.
adammichaelc 16y ago
My paraphrased short version: Ron Conway to the super-angels: I'm in this game because I love seeing entrepreneurs build cool stuff. You guys aren't. Stop worrying about term sheets and valuations and worry about adding value beyond cash. I've wanted to say this for a long time, but have bit my lip in your presence. I no longer want to be involved with any of you. And Dave McClure, quit being a classless embarrassment to Silicon Valley.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  If nothing else, it confirms Arrington's characterization of the purpose of the meeting.
- credo 16y ago
  That is a good summary. However, I'm surprised that so many other comments talk about Conway rocking, being a great individual etc. When I read his email, my thought was that the email was a great image-building propaganda tool and that he wrote it with the knowledge that the email would be made public. His email talks how great he is, how he loves entrepreneurs and how other investors are in it for self-serving factors like ego and money. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. However, I'm willing to bet that many unscrupulous investors could easily write a similar email.
  - adammichaelc 16y ago
    I would have similar doubts about Conway's authenticity here except that doesn't fit with what I've heard pretty much everywhere else about the kind of person he is to do deals with and work with. Maybe he wouldn't have written that email if this story hadn't been aired. Maybe he would have. But the email fits with his past actions, so to me it doesn't matter. My guess is that he knew the email would be aired, and he wrote it to entrepreneurs as much as to the super-angels. His brand is all about trust-with-entrepreneurs, and if he loses that his deal-flow gets severely cut down. To solidify that trust, he publicly threw down the line in the sand and said, "I'm on the entrepreneur's side. Always. I'm even willing to give up friendships / partnerships with these other investors to prove that loyalty."
nkohari 16y ago
As an outsider to Silicon Valley, it really seems like it's full of drama and ego wars. Seeing grown men and women argue like children really makes me happy I resisted the urge to move out there.
- zkirill 16y ago
  Clearly you've never been to Hollywood.
  - alizaki 16y ago
    there are no adults in hollywood.
    - evgen 16y ago
      they are all over in the san fernando valley, or at least that is what their section 2257 docs claim...
      - bl4k 16y ago
        upvoted in shame that I know what a sec 2257 is
- deleted 16y ago
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- nostrademons 16y ago
  You realize that there a few million people in Silicon Valley, and this concerns a few dozen of them?
  - peteforde 16y ago
    I think he gets that, yeah. There really is an overwhelming aura of "you don't get taken seriously unless you're in the Valley" which gets a bit grating when you have legitimate reasons for living elsewhere. The OP simply means that the grass isn't always greener.
bherms 16y ago
This guy is an upstanding individual and really cares about startups. I'm glad people like him exist. Maybe some day I'll be lucky enough to have him invest in one of my projects. I really like how he called McClure out. I know McClure is a smart guy and allegedly a great investor, but he is quite classless and the f* this f* that attitude is embarrassing to what are supposed to be a group of intelligent, successful, and perhaps caring individuals.
- kalvin 16y ago
  Lots of shitting on Dave McClure from people who've never met him. If you had a friend who was a great guy but happened to have a ridiculous online writing voice, and terrible taste in fonts, you wouldn't hate on him for it. The few times I've dealt with him, he was incredibly generous and helpful beyond belief. Don't turn real people into hateful caricatures based on your dislike of the way they express themselves online.
  - bherms 16y ago
    I'm sorry, but the way you express yourself is always going to affect others perception of you. I also wouldn't say I turned him into a hateful caricature. There's no hate in there, I just think his writing style is classless. And if anyone is turning him into a caricature, it's himself. If I had a friend who would only scream at people in real life, I would think less of him, regardless of how helpful he was. I do, in fact, have a friend who expresses himself like a douche online. I a) call him out for it frequently and b) think that he is a bit douchey. Still a great guy, and one of my best friends, but I would definitely say the way I look at him is changed by his online persona.
staunch 16y ago
He knows more about how these guys act behind closed doors than absolutely anyone. I think it's official now: these guys were being bad and they got an appropriate bitch slap. Hopefully that's the end of it. I'm sure none of them are genuinely bad guys. There's probably just a side of some of them that's a bit greedy and stupid. Hopefully this will be the lesson they all need to keep that side suppressed permanently.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  Why are you so sure their intentions are pure or that "none of them are genuinely bad guys"? Do you know the people that were there well? If you don't, you're not really qualified to say this. People put a lot of time into image and posturing and often it has little to do with what's really under the surface. If they are in actually involved in illegal collusion, they should be charged and prosecuted. I don't think it's sufficient to say the damage to the reputations of those involved is sufficient punishment if accusations of conspiracy are correct.
  - staunch 16y ago
    Good point. I'll get the wood, you get the matches.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      I'm not suggesting that those involved be vilified or "burned at the stake" as the euphemism goes. I merely think that we lack data on the whole situation, and that we shouldn't assume that there are no "genuinely bad guys" in the bunch just from their public personas. Also, that statement is premature anyway because we don't even know who was there. I don't think that we should vilify or exonerate yet. We should just sit on it and wait for reliable data to emerge. I was surprised that your post had so many upvotes because it jumps to an irrationally optimistic conclusion that none are "bad guys". The correct conclusion based on the data we have is no conclusion, because nothing conclusive has been presented. It seems confirmed that a dinner was had and that many powerful angel investors were involved. That's about all that has been agreed upon so far. So why are you saying that none of these are "bad guys" when we don't know who was there or what they were doing? You'd be surprised who's a bad guy and who isn't when it comes down to the wire. It's easy to be gracious when things are going well, and easy to appear gracious in a medium that you control. And in any case, I merely suggested the terms of the law be enforced if it is found that the law was violated. This hardly amounts to a "burning at the stake".
jackowayed 16y ago
That's pretty linkbaity. Dropping a "nuclear bomb" would be something like, "I have a recording from the Bin 38 meeting that proves you were colluding. The FTC will start examining it at 9am sharp tomorrow morning." Sure, it's unusual for someone to so strongly come out and call people out, especially people that he may want to invest alongside someday, but "nuclear bomb" is a serious stretch.
- itistoday 16y ago
  If you think about it, it's really quite remarkable hyperbole. Drama in the valley, TC in the middle of it. People can forget themselves.
  - klochner 16y ago
    Just to be clear on hyperbole: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole
    - klochner 16y ago
      Really? I reply with clarification and receive anonymous downvotes in return? hyperbole isn't a fancy word for exaggeration
      - klochner 16y ago
        Sigh
- deleted 16y ago
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- jcnnghm 16y ago
  I think the whole point of the email was letting these people know he didn't want to invest alongside them. An email like that could ruin your day.
- marknutter 16y ago
gkoberger 16y ago
There's one thing I noticed about Arrington at Disrupt- sure, he's a dick, but he's only a dick to people who a) can take it and b) deserve it. I can't think of a single instance where he has called someone out, and it turned out later he was wrong. For example, some of the panel at Disrupt were being rude (talking amongst themselves during a startup presentation), and he stopped everything and called them out on it. These weren't just random judges- they were some of Silicon Valley's most influential people. He never once took a shot at any of the startups presenting. He may have given people like Carol Bartz a hard time, but they can take it. I may not necessarily want him as a friend, but I really respect Arrington. This email from Conway basically proves "yet again, Arrington knew what he was doing." ============================ Edits about the people posting below me: - Leo Laporte: a) Leo Laporte can take it, and b) Arrington was merely asking for a disclosure. I don't think that proves me wrong. - Last.fm: Linking to the official blog of a company being accused isn't proof. There's much more to the story that came after that (ie http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/; not to say linking to TC is any better) - I'm sure Arrington has been wrong at some point.. I just said I couldn't think of anything.
- wwortiz 16y ago
  Well here is one instant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsV-lgnAjps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsV-lgnAjps Edit: Leo Laporte and the Palm Pre for those who have seen it In response to your edit I was only posting because you said a) and b) not a) or b) and I don't think this falls into the category of b). He wasn't asking for disclosure so much that he did not get a pre review unit so he was strongly biased against those who did since he went on even after disclosure was completed.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    The tone of the Gillmor Gang was always more aggressive and Arrington wasn't being particularly aggressive and was trying to make a point about how things work. I get the feeling he wasn't comfortable with the Gillmor Gang on his network and was looking for a way out. Leo Laporte takes quite a few shots at other people and can take it. It is often hard to listen to some of his "netcasts" because he does tend to be snarky about those flyover people. // disclosure: I do contribute the $2/mo to TWIT
jcnnghm 16y ago
My respect for Arrington keeps going up, and I can't help but admire what Ron Conway has to say about this. The no-bs approach works for him. I'm glad he called out the writing, I guess McClure's money is still green, but I don't think I could take anyone that writes like that seriously. Edited for clarity.
- mberning 16y ago
  You are going to criticize a guy based on a single private letter that he wrote? Maybe he was feeling anxious and frazzled and wrote this email quickly to help resolve his feelings. I know I certainly have, and I'm sure it was not the most elegant prose ever constructed.
  - sparky 16y ago
    The parent meant that he is glad Ron Conway called out Dave McClure's response to the original TechCrunch piece (http://500hats.typepad.com/500blogs/2010/09/fire-in-the-valley.html http://500hats.typepad.com/500blogs/2010/09/fire-in-the-vall...). Took me a couple times to parse too :P
faramarz 16y ago
No one other Ron could have wrote this piece and I respect him all the more for coming out and being clear about his position (as if you didn't know it already). I can predict two things; 1) The younger angels react and further split themselves from the Ron way of doing business. or 2) You will hear no more about this public debacle. It's clearly bad for business and any smart investor will shut up now.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  These guys appear to be a bunch of ego-driven alpha males. They can no more stop talking about this, than piss up a tree. In fact, being part of a macho secret conspiracy will probably inflame them to further stupidities.
quesera 16y ago
Seriously, Ron Conway doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur"?? If that's possible, it's awesome, don't get me wrong, but it seems fishy.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  It made me happy to see that someone who must have typed the word 50 jillion times in his life can still get it wrong. It's a weird word.
  - quesera 16y ago
    Indeed. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it. I have to believe it's intentional -- perhaps a conscious progression of the fluid language. Or maybe he just has a thing against the French. Either way, if anyone gets the privilege of defining a new spelling for the word, Ron is a good candidate. I think the community should embrace the new spelling, in appreciation. :)
- girlzhack 16y ago
  Ron only needs to help them, and he does so who cares about spelling! Besides, have you seen the atrocity that McClure calls a blog post?
- lachyg 16y ago
  Possibility that he just made a typo :)
  - relix 16y ago
    Ten times exactly the same? Occam says it wasn't a typo ;)
    - lachyg 16y ago
      Faulty keyboard? ;)
- mhartl 16y ago
mhartl 16y ago
Two reactions: (1) Ron Conway is a man of great integrity. (2) It's astonishing and fascinating that the world's most prolific angel investor apparently doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur". But he sure has helped a lot of them, and that's what really matters.
- ojbyrne 16y ago
  The President of the United States managed to miss the fact that the word derives from french.
  - tomhoward 16y ago
    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
    - rada 16y ago
      Unless I misinterpreted the purpose of your link, the denial of a conversation by a politician's PR flunkie does not mean it didn't happen.
      - tomhoward 16y ago
        Perhaps not but you could say that about a lot of things. People will make up their own minds, and most will do so based on their preexisting biases. Those who try to keep an open mind should be aware that this story is a rumour based on hearsay, not a verifiable fact.
- wensing 16y ago
  He probably wasn't focusing on his spelling/typos when he wrote this.
- bootload 16y ago
  "... he world's most prolific angel investor apparently doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur" ..." There is another (sneaky) explanation. Ron simply sent out many of these emails to different people with another word with incorrect spelling. This allows you to identify exactly who leaks the message. This is an old "intelligence" trick used to identify the source of information leaks.
sahillavingia 16y ago
Can someone get a shirt printed that says "I ♥ Ron Conway"? Thanks.
- mandeepdhami 16y ago
  http://bit.ly/d0uHHX http://bit.ly/d0uHHX ;-)
nphase 16y ago
The only thing that makes me seriously wonder if this is a fake is the repeated misspelling of the word entrepreneurs: "entrepenuers" Edit: I just realized I read the posts backwards. I suppose it's not fake if that's actually what Dave McClure was referencing in his deleted tweet. Still. Perhaps these "super angel" could do with some spelling and grammar lessons. (Yes, I could probably use some too.)
cletus 16y ago
Arrington has has obviously lit a match to a powderkeg with "So a blogger walks into a bar...". McClure's response came across (to me) as defensive, which at least confirms that there is a concern about the appearance of impropriety. I would love to know who was at this meeting and who got this email from Conway. There are some useful short-term consequences of this: 1. These super angels probably don't trust each other anymore ("who tipped off Arrington?"). This is a good thing; 2. Meetings like this are less likely to happen in the short term. If they do, they'll probably be somewhere private (the back of a restaurant is not private); and 3. It highlights the importance and value of reputation and integrity (of which Conway's cup overfloweth). Further to (3) there is this quote from JP Morgan: > Asked: "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?" > "No sir," replied Morgan. "The first thing is character." > "Before money or property?" > "Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it...Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."
- j_baker 16y ago
  McClure's response wasn't defensive. Defensive would have been keeping quiet and not admitting to have been there in the first place.
  - spoondan 16y ago
    Calling TechCrunch's reporting a "bullshit superangel conspiracy theory" is, if nothing else, a prime example of defensiveness.
    - j_baker 16y ago
      No, that's disagreement. People who have something to hide usually don't draw attention to themselves.
      - techiferous 16y ago
        I think your idea of defensiveness is different than most people's.
rjurney 16y ago
I'm having trouble believing this is not a hoax. This doesn't feel real to me. The entire thing feels like it is staged by Arrington and McClure.
- Astro9k 16y ago
  Could be all fake and disinformation. Stirring up controversy is how people get attention (and therefore money) nowadays.
- smoody 16y ago
  It's going to feel A LOT more surreal in the coming days I suspect. A lot of people are going to go into serious a$$-covering mode to distance themselves from these people as quickly as possible. It's not just a matter of reputation, it's a matter of landing on the preferred side of the law. Ron's email is great. I do wonder why he didn't write it before this whole thing broke. I'm guessing it would have been even tougher.
  - Astro9k 16y ago
    Maybe this is the first a$$ covering salvo
j_baker 16y ago
This had me up until the McClure part. I'll need something more than an anonymous source to believe it.
yurylifshits 16y ago
By the way, can this meeting be connected to Angel List (http://angel.co/ http://angel.co/) in any way? As far as I understand, Angel List is an effort to create a centralized curated marketplace for angel investing. Seems very similar to AngelGate. Even if these are unrelated, I wonder, whether Angel List can be viewed as something against competition. On the other hand, Angel List simplifies angel fundrising a lot and therefore is beneficial for entrepreneurs.
- jimboyoungblood 16y ago
  AngelList has about as much in common with AngelGate as it does the Hells Angels. AngelList is the single most democratizing, pro-competitive thing that has happened to tech startup investing in a long time. (Disclaimer: i'm one of the angels on the list)
  - yurylifshits 16y ago
    Happy to get my doubts answered :) And looking forward to use Angel List some day in the future.
- Batsu 16y ago
  I'm going to pistol whip the next person that says "AngelGate" (Worth it.)
HowardRoark 16y ago
Ron Conway rocks but the email almost feels like it was intended to be leaked.
- akjetma 16y ago
  He also could have been the one to tip Arrington to the meeting in the first place. Then, after alleging that it was one of the others who had tipped Arrington, he inspires mistrust among the colluding angels. This is all speculation, obviously, and a little too ''evil' mastermind' to be based on reality, I think.
losethos 16y ago
Pride before the fall; humility before honors. I worked as a bagger and construction worker, then landed a job at Ticketmaster. They seem to balance in years. On a guilt trip I took a job in a deli, then landed a job a head engineer. Both lasted months. I know the rules. "No one plans to take the path which brings you lower." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D37POA11KY&ob=av2e http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D37POA11KY&ob=av2e Meh... play the system? Take a shit job, so some angel can bless me. I don't look up to angels, I look them in the eye. Fuck you, I'm Jacob and I'll kick your fucken ass. God says... vouchsafest looking Hearken difficulty Lord passible refrained glad was unpermitted effectedst deluded favour profounder filleth seeks disorder appetite aid shifted united _ penalty calculate baptised discovery speaks Seraphim Texts willing heightening bore Italy assuring Eastern stead evermore password Excellently guardian commemorated piled talk sweeter unharmonising Juno submitting favours deserted eternity shattered year soberly extollers command recur thunder Replacement ornamenting like foster Forgive brackishness credulity solemn tore conformably One vein engaged Placed Robert choked suggestion sentences hurting credibility lineage slackened enquiring welcome Oil cauldron severed manors countenance expound lusteth worsted within unresolved used alternatively Nay twinkling Helpidius inasmuch pardoned laxly mischief trusting taking mighty gaining Treasury abode pleasest curious foretelling burnt adulterous governors eclipses trademark rites station costs knots deeper passed blending section contemporary eligible heavier Troy tcosa invited sufficest Entrust dearer litigation signified Idaho Pages Earth obediently Perverseness now heart blame lashest express privacy unlikeness brings Hart genuinely almost lose file shield bad regulate consciousness shifted observeth Betwixt Predicament rebelled magnitudes multiple wasting feeding abridged conceit blade distrusted Yeah, an angel cums when you bend over and take-it up the ass is my take on this: "Angels rejoice when a sinner is saved." Don't get me started on people. Catholic are foul loathsome that way, wannabe angels. God put it well, "Pride Money Choose." You can bow to a boss, do illegal shit and screw people over or be homeless like Jesus. God it sucked going on disability. God says... intrude oil harmonious dialogue processing Manichees beauteous needful nation trial troublesome foolishly confidentially instruction marked counsel Whither reap Nor proceeded needing profounder billion days between friends stiffly intently lottery abide electronic unwholesome discomfort The state foamed standest falling praises compass wearing fashion press presides inflicted
gaius 16y ago
I have stated consistently for year that I invest because I love helping entrepenuers and watching them learn and succeed. Oh please! We're all capitalists here, nothing to be ashamed of.
- nocman 16y ago
  Conway didn't say that he's not interested in making lots of money. Sounded to me like he was just pointing out that making money is not his primary motivation for investing. Now, I don't know him at all, so I can't vouch for whether he's being honest or not. However, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of free-market-loving capitalists in this country (present company included) who do the things they do with "making lots of money" quite a ways down on their priority lists. In fact, many of us would be perfectly content with just loving what we do, making enough to pay the bills, support our families, and have a little bit left over to do some fun and meaningful things with.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Agreed. I was asked by my boss to "examine my priorities" when I came in 5 after 8 from driving by son to his new school (we were moving, I wanted him to be in same school for the whole year). Next morning I delivered my prioritized list to him - work was #12. Try it, you will be surprised. Don't get me wrong, money is part of the equation for me, but certainly I won't sacrifice health, family, security etc for a little bit more of it (or for a particular job etc).
    - zackattack 16y ago
      How did he respond?
      - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
        I worked there for years after. I learned later he was stressed that day - three separate people walked into his office at different times, saying they were going to quit if something didn't change (I wasn't one of them). I guess he changed, I didn't hear any more about it.
jrockway 16y ago
It would have been better. If each sentence was not. Its own paragraph.
- lanstein 16y ago
  With some missing periods
jyothi 16y ago
It is very difficult to be what Ron Conway is. Respect. He is not preaching but living an example & telling others that it can be done. The problem is that this mail was meant only for super angels to possibly introspect and be influenced. Not to be beaten around in public forums embarrassing the investors. Sometimes confessions in private work better as a fix. It is hard in public. If Arrington had any sense he would have kept quiet and not divert attention to a debacle through TC at the cost of start-up community.
- adammichaelc 16y ago
  I don't agree that Arrington should have kept quiet. When you shine a light in a dark room you are able to see what people do when they think nobody is looking. In Arrington's case, he gave the world a front-row seat in a meeting where the participants thought they were in private -- this is a very good thing in my opinion. With few exceptions, transparency is a win for society and business because it keeps people honest. Arrington's report puts the "secret-meeting participants" on notice that they can't get away with this kind of thing, and it also alerts entrepreneurs to watch out for it. Both very good things.
  - dasil003 16y ago
    I agree with this assessment. Sure it's linkbaity and Arrington has an ulterior motive of stirring up drama for page views, but at the end of the day it passes the smell test. Not necessarily that collusion occurred, but just that things may have been heading in that direction... it's probably a pretty gray area when you think about all the way that angel investments are structured and the diverse opinions among angles. All the drama will probably blow over in a few days, and in the end both the super angels and entrepreneurs will be better off for this ethics-check having occurred.
fady 16y ago
via a comment on TC by "Hhhmmm": This email reeks of someone trying to steer clear of trouble and keep their name clean. It also reads more like a public blog post, not a private email. I wouldn't be surprised if Conway tipped TC himself. Am I right in thinking Conway attended two meetings? If he disagreed so strongly with what was being discussed, why return for the 2nd?
- kyro 16y ago
  With the reply to that saying he never attended either of the meetings.
narrator 16y ago
It almost reminds me of what happened with derivatives, securitization and HFT on wall street. The game became all about bamboozling the regulators and investors with complicated financial games instead of creating real wealth. There's this ugly thing in American business where money is made on making things overly complicated. Where instead of trying to solve economic problems people are just trying to win at chess.
sinzone 16y ago
Here the real-time debate: http://office.mashape.com/question/debate.html http://office.mashape.com/question/debate.html
joelmichael 16y ago
Arrington feeds on drama, quite literally.
bl4k 16y ago
McClure dug himself into a hole with his first response. He didn't think two moves ahead. In poker parlance what McClure did was to bet the turn on a semi-bluff not anticipating an all-in shove from his opponent on the river. McClure's post - through both its style and its content, left an opening for Conway to come out with this email. Dave is stuck now, and his only response from here is to come clean in some way and clear the air. McClure has made all sorts of mistakes, first the blog post, and then the accidental tweet. He is not handling this very well and I feel for him because he is the only person from the dinner who is speaking out. The other people in attendance are suspiciously quiet (and giving away that they were there by being quiet) and leaving it to Dave to do the talking (and not doing a very good job for himself or for the rest of them).
- iamwil 16y ago
  Which kinda sucks, since re-reading his post, it seems like he was invited there. To me, it seems probable that he wasn't the ring leader(s), but merely the one that's talking the loudest. Doesn't excuse the guy, but he's getting the spotlight shone on him while the others sneak off into the night unnoticed.
  - bl4k 16y ago
    this defense is not a whole lot better: http://twitter.com/jeff/status/25358068083 http://twitter.com/jeff/status/25358068083
flocial 16y ago
Ron Conway wasn't at the dinner in question. If you read all the information out there, it all comes down to Mike got snubbed, made wild allegations in anger, the first person to stand up (Dave) got ran over by the collective truck, TechCrunch posts suggestive information and the party goes on. The ball is still in Mike's court to produce something of substance. At first, I admired Tech Crunch for having the guts to post something like it but looking it over there's no substance to it. It's just yellow journalism for the digital age. Complete rubbish that feeds into the collective psyche.
sachbh 16y ago
F(orget) this s(tuff)! Lets go build great products and businesses. Its taking away 15 mins we don't have.
devmonk 16y ago
As others said, I don't think I've ever see entrepreneur spelled entrepenuer quite that many times before. If the nuclear bomb was mispelling entrepreneur, it has been dropped. Though, I appreciate Ron's willingness to speak out against the collusion of these investors to wreak havoc on their competition.
annajohnson 16y ago
I don't think there's anything suspect about Ron Conway's misspelling of 'entrepreneur'. He probably just banged out the email without doing a spell-check. Let's remember it was a private email. Had he intended to have it published he probably would have taken more care. I can't speak for Ron, of course, but I will say that I frequently write the word "entrepreneur" (i.e. in blog posts, emails, etc). I'm not sure why - maybe it's the way I touch-type - but I often miss the second 'r'. I typically don't even notice until I do a spell-check. All in all, I think it was just an innocent mistake.
Sukotto 16y ago
I find it hard to tell if this is a heartfelt attempt to "tell it like it is", or masterful damage control to pull his buddy's ass out of the fire. PG vouches for him (which counts for a lot) so maybe it's completely legit and heartfelt. If so, it does indicate a certain lapse of judgment on the author's part. Why on Earth would he think something this inflammatory would stay secret? It must be obvious to everyone involved that they have serious operational-security issues. There's no way something like this would be kept private when the members of the group couldn't even keep the existence and location of their meeting a secret from a notoriously trigger-happy (and widely read) blogger. If it isn't heartfelt, then it walks through the checklist of everything you should do for damage control when you or someone in your circle faces an accusation of collusion / conspiracy: - Loudly and vehemently disagree with the "bad group"'s philosophy; - Explain the presence of the buddy in "bad group" in terms of how he didn't want to be involved but was sucked in and unable to escape. (Don't wave this type away as "bad judgment" since it implies guilt); - Completely disavow the "bad" group; - Keep focus on how you only care about "good group"; - Repeatedly assert that you always look out for "good group" and you would never allow anything bad to happen to "good group" (Incidentally, the spelling errors were a particularly nice touch.)
- rfugger 16y ago
  Notice how he admits that the group is guilty of bitching about deal structures with entrepreneurs, while drawing attention away from the greater crime of collusion. My thought is that this is an attempt to draw attention away from the real crime here by throwing up more distraction.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  It DOES have many grammatical flaws and the writing style strongly reminds me of the unvetted typing of a classic older user who 'adopted' the net in his later years. The profile that his letter draws to mind strongly suggests to me that it was either: 1) authentic and written by him and only him 2) Masterfully manipulative and two steps ahead of me
  - ahoyhere 16y ago
varjag 16y ago
> Please keep this confidential even though I know that will be hard since two of you let your egos take over and show Arrington how important you are by telling him you were headed to a “secret” angel gathering. So true.
to_jon 16y ago
As entrepreneurs, we need both Conway and the Super Angels. It's time for everyone to get over these unfortunate meetings and forgive the participants. Enough is enough. Did they do something wrong? Hell yes. But it's been exposed, examined, and discussed. Publicly stoning a group of angels represents the worst kind of mob behavior and reflects poorly on entrepreneurs as an investment class. Let's not forget that wealthy individuals have many different options for investing their money that historically have higher rates of return (i.e. make more money) than investments in startup companies. Many angels invest in startups because it's more fun than profitable. Let's not change that dynamic in spite of ourselves. At the end of the day, we want angel investing to be the biggest game possible. It's a surplus of angel money that has put entrepreneurs in the driver's seat and made term sheets extremely favorable to founders. Fewer angels in the mix and the scenario can change quickly. It's time to prove that we're better than a small group of angels who engaged in such unfortunate behavior. It's time to forgive and move on.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Ok, forgiveness is keen, but its not possible to forgive criminal acts. It's not up to this community. Personally I look forward to the shakeup. The money will find its own level, whether its this group of idiots or some other.
livando 16y ago
it's not a memo, it's a mission statement.
JabavuAdams 16y ago
With all the money and resources at these peoples' disposal, why the hell would they meet at a bar / restaurant to plan their nefarious nefariousness? Wouldn't this kind of business be better transacted on a yacht or submarine?
paramendra 16y ago
My take home word from Conway's email: binary. Angelgate rolls on. http://goo.gl/fb/PpyhK http://goo.gl/fb/PpyhK
rblion 16y ago
the godfather has spoken.
leif 16y ago
Man, sometimes I find it hard to express how much I love watching awkward dudes with enough money to think they're important get into catfights across blogs.
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558 points by ssclafani 16y ago

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mikeryan 16y ago

Ron Conway rocks.

bretthellman 16y ago

"Dave McCLure…pls try not to blog about this and cause silicon valley more embarrassment with your unprofessional classless writings" OUCH

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lotusleaf1987 16y ago
I seriously don't understand how people were defending his writing style. Anyone over ninteen would realize the use of multi-colored text, "drop a cap in yo ass" lines, and lack of capitalization looks like you're lazy and incompetent. I realize he's done fairly well in his investments, but does he not have an extra 2-3 minutes to capitalize and think out more coherent analogies?
- bretthellman 16y ago
  It makes him standout from the crowd which is his goal IMO...
  - lotusleaf1987 16y ago
    ...It makes him look childish, impatient, immature, and less credible. If you're a professional, act like one. You wouldn't turn an essay in looking like that in junior high or high school, so why is it acceptable for him?
    - bretthellman 16y ago
      I don't disagree with that.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      I'd be afraid of the answer if I asked an actual junior high school teacher which side of "average" that writing style would actually land him on in terms of a school essay.
    - iamwil 16y ago
      There's many things that make a man. His dress, his words, his actions, and these are all suppose to be a reflection of his character and integrity. Be careful which one you pick to judge a man. I'm not defending Dave's actions at this meeting, merely his writing style. I'm glad the Valley has room for the likes of Dave's writing style. The day the Valley values professionalism over actual value give is the day I leave, since I can go to Wall Street for that. Suits and the Whole Nine Yards. The second time I'll invoke Tara: "The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act." - Tara Ploughman
  - techiferous 16y ago
    Actually, being a polite gentleman will make you stand out more nowadays.
- desigooner 16y ago
  either McClure is a really good troll, just trying to gain attention or just trying to "fit" in with the young entrepreneurs/founders .
- codexon 16y ago
  Let's be honest here. If you had as much money as Mcclure, would you waste as much time trying to please people by bending over backwards with perfect grammar, lack of slang, and an apologetic tone? Everyone starts writing to please other people through resumes, cover letters, thank-you cards, and apologies. But once you have enough money like Mcclure, you can say "Fuck you" when you want to and not worry about losing your job. And that's exactly what he did.
  - lotusleaf1987 16y ago
    Yes, I would. It doesn't take that much more effort. Your argument is that he's too busy for punctuation to be worth his time? What about people who are more wealthy than him who manage to do so? What would you think if Warren Buffett wrote like this? He's acting like the kids in junior high who thought they were being rebellious by shopping at Hot Topic and dressing punk. He's just replaced one style for another. He's not text messaging his rant, he published it online. If he's so rich and too busy, then pay an assistant to edit it. Everything you do is a representation of yourself.
    - codexon 16y ago
      Maybe you would, that's why you're complaining about it. But my whole point is that there's more people like him that don't feel like writing perfectly. As you just admitted, it takes extra effort to write for your audience instead of writing for yourself. And why would he bother to hire an assistant to edit it? That also takes effort. Warren Buffet obviously has the choice to behave in the same manner. He also has the choice to be reckless like Larry Ellison and fly jet fighters, or be like the Koch brother's and spend millions on libertarian think-tanks to anger a large democratic populace. Or conversely, why does Buffet choose to anger countless libertarians by saying he and other billionaires should pay a higher tax rate than his secretary? If he was a truly wise businessman, he would refrain from political statements like that. My point is that wealth makes people more confident in revealing their idiosyncrasies. Whether or not you like their true personality is another story. Amusingly and relatedly I've lost over 20 karma points for telling what people don't want to hear even though I do not support Dave McClure's behavior.
- zaidf 16y ago
  does he not have an extra 2-3 minutes to capitalize and think out more coherent analogies? The same way, I fail to realize how people don't understand that he writes in that style not because he lacks a few extra minutes but because that is a style and persona he's built over time.
  - evgen 16y ago
    How is it that someone as sharp as McClure and his posse claim him to be cannot realize that no matter how well-crafted the the persona may be, if it personifies douchebag then maybe you need to dial it back a bit.
    - zaidf 16y ago
      if it personifies douchebag It may personify douchebag to you and 82,482 other irrelevant strangers on the internet. More important, though, is what it personifies to the entrepreneurs looking to raise money. What you see as douche, many see as no-bs straightalking angel investor(whether accurate or not is irrelavant). At the end of the day, his blog is a sales pitch to entrepreneurs. And from all that I can see, he has done pretty well. ie. he's scored many deals where the entrepreneurs see him as the no-bs guy; I'm not aware of any where an entrepreneur blatantly turned him down due to his writing style. Most that claim they would never raise money from him have never raised money and never will. Conclusion: it's his style, it works for him and his goals, so he continues.
  - Devilboy 16y ago
    'Asshole' is not a style
    - zaidf 16y ago
      Don't listen to rap, then. Stick with pop.
      - nocman 16y ago
        You make it sound like pop is the only alternative to rap. I happen to like some of both (along with a lot of other styles of music), but am not interested in the rants of people who are acting like jerks from either musical style. Dave McClure is free to write with the tone of a jerk all he wants. I don't know anything about him other than the post in question, but regardless of whether that's just his "style", I certainly wouldn't want to do business of any serious kind with him if it could possibly be avoided.
- dmoney 16y ago
  His writing style's certainly drawing attention away from the issue at hand, so I'd say it works for him.
girlzhack 16y ago
It's crazy that even with Ron telling Dave to stop embarrassing the tech community with his unprofessional classless writing - he still did it! That in itself is truly classless
- shadowsun7 16y ago
  I believe this email was written after Dave posted his defense of the meetup.
  - jeffb 16y ago
    Yes, but Dave's accidental tweet to the whole world came after Ron's email, didn't it? That's what really makes Dave look like a webtard - Ron told Dave not to "cause silicon valley more embarrassment with your unprofessional classless writings", and then Dave sent out a tweet doing exactly that!
    - binomial 16y ago
      That was a mistake, meant to be a direct (private) message to someone on twitter, probably a fellow "super angel".
  - gommm 16y ago
    Yes but he still did it with his tweet...
davidmurphy 16y ago
I gotta say, I find his profanity and weird formatting off-putting. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.

adammichaelc 16y ago

My paraphrased short version: Ron Conway to the super-angels: I'm in this game because I love seeing entrepreneurs build cool stuff. You guys aren't. Stop worrying about term sheets and valuations and worry about adding value beyond cash. I've wanted to say this for a long time, but have bit my lip in your presence. I no longer want to be involved with any of you. And Dave McClure, quit being a classless embarrassment to Silicon Valley.

waterlesscloud 16y ago
If nothing else, it confirms Arrington's characterization of the purpose of the meeting.
credo 16y ago
That is a good summary. However, I'm surprised that so many other comments talk about Conway rocking, being a great individual etc. When I read his email, my thought was that the email was a great image-building propaganda tool and that he wrote it with the knowledge that the email would be made public. His email talks how great he is, how he loves entrepreneurs and how other investors are in it for self-serving factors like ego and money. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. However, I'm willing to bet that many unscrupulous investors could easily write a similar email.
- adammichaelc 16y ago
  I would have similar doubts about Conway's authenticity here except that doesn't fit with what I've heard pretty much everywhere else about the kind of person he is to do deals with and work with. Maybe he wouldn't have written that email if this story hadn't been aired. Maybe he would have. But the email fits with his past actions, so to me it doesn't matter. My guess is that he knew the email would be aired, and he wrote it to entrepreneurs as much as to the super-angels. His brand is all about trust-with-entrepreneurs, and if he loses that his deal-flow gets severely cut down. To solidify that trust, he publicly threw down the line in the sand and said, "I'm on the entrepreneur's side. Always. I'm even willing to give up friendships / partnerships with these other investors to prove that loyalty."

nkohari 16y ago

As an outsider to Silicon Valley, it really seems like it's full of drama and ego wars. Seeing grown men and women argue like children really makes me happy I resisted the urge to move out there.

zkirill 16y ago
Clearly you've never been to Hollywood.
- alizaki 16y ago
  there are no adults in hollywood.
  - evgen 16y ago
    they are all over in the san fernando valley, or at least that is what their section 2257 docs claim...
    - bl4k 16y ago
      upvoted in shame that I know what a sec 2257 is
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nostrademons 16y ago
You realize that there a few million people in Silicon Valley, and this concerns a few dozen of them?
- peteforde 16y ago
  I think he gets that, yeah. There really is an overwhelming aura of "you don't get taken seriously unless you're in the Valley" which gets a bit grating when you have legitimate reasons for living elsewhere. The OP simply means that the grass isn't always greener.

bherms 16y ago

This guy is an upstanding individual and really cares about startups. I'm glad people like him exist. Maybe some day I'll be lucky enough to have him invest in one of my projects. I really like how he called McClure out. I know McClure is a smart guy and allegedly a great investor, but he is quite classless and the f* this f* that attitude is embarrassing to what are supposed to be a group of intelligent, successful, and perhaps caring individuals.

kalvin 16y ago
Lots of shitting on Dave McClure from people who've never met him. If you had a friend who was a great guy but happened to have a ridiculous online writing voice, and terrible taste in fonts, you wouldn't hate on him for it. The few times I've dealt with him, he was incredibly generous and helpful beyond belief. Don't turn real people into hateful caricatures based on your dislike of the way they express themselves online.
- bherms 16y ago
  I'm sorry, but the way you express yourself is always going to affect others perception of you. I also wouldn't say I turned him into a hateful caricature. There's no hate in there, I just think his writing style is classless. And if anyone is turning him into a caricature, it's himself. If I had a friend who would only scream at people in real life, I would think less of him, regardless of how helpful he was. I do, in fact, have a friend who expresses himself like a douche online. I a) call him out for it frequently and b) think that he is a bit douchey. Still a great guy, and one of my best friends, but I would definitely say the way I look at him is changed by his online persona.

staunch 16y ago

He knows more about how these guys act behind closed doors than absolutely anyone. I think it's official now: these guys were being bad and they got an appropriate bitch slap. Hopefully that's the end of it. I'm sure none of them are genuinely bad guys. There's probably just a side of some of them that's a bit greedy and stupid. Hopefully this will be the lesson they all need to keep that side suppressed permanently.

cookiecaper 16y ago
Why are you so sure their intentions are pure or that "none of them are genuinely bad guys"? Do you know the people that were there well? If you don't, you're not really qualified to say this. People put a lot of time into image and posturing and often it has little to do with what's really under the surface. If they are in actually involved in illegal collusion, they should be charged and prosecuted. I don't think it's sufficient to say the damage to the reputations of those involved is sufficient punishment if accusations of conspiracy are correct.
- staunch 16y ago
  Good point. I'll get the wood, you get the matches.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    I'm not suggesting that those involved be vilified or "burned at the stake" as the euphemism goes. I merely think that we lack data on the whole situation, and that we shouldn't assume that there are no "genuinely bad guys" in the bunch just from their public personas. Also, that statement is premature anyway because we don't even know who was there. I don't think that we should vilify or exonerate yet. We should just sit on it and wait for reliable data to emerge. I was surprised that your post had so many upvotes because it jumps to an irrationally optimistic conclusion that none are "bad guys". The correct conclusion based on the data we have is no conclusion, because nothing conclusive has been presented. It seems confirmed that a dinner was had and that many powerful angel investors were involved. That's about all that has been agreed upon so far. So why are you saying that none of these are "bad guys" when we don't know who was there or what they were doing? You'd be surprised who's a bad guy and who isn't when it comes down to the wire. It's easy to be gracious when things are going well, and easy to appear gracious in a medium that you control. And in any case, I merely suggested the terms of the law be enforced if it is found that the law was violated. This hardly amounts to a "burning at the stake".

jackowayed 16y ago

That's pretty linkbaity. Dropping a "nuclear bomb" would be something like, "I have a recording from the Bin 38 meeting that proves you were colluding. The FTC will start examining it at 9am sharp tomorrow morning." Sure, it's unusual for someone to so strongly come out and call people out, especially people that he may want to invest alongside someday, but "nuclear bomb" is a serious stretch.

itistoday 16y ago
If you think about it, it's really quite remarkable hyperbole. Drama in the valley, TC in the middle of it. People can forget themselves.
- klochner 16y ago
  Just to be clear on hyperbole: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole
  - klochner 16y ago
    Really? I reply with clarification and receive anonymous downvotes in return? hyperbole isn't a fancy word for exaggeration
    - klochner 16y ago
      Sigh
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jcnnghm 16y ago
I think the whole point of the email was letting these people know he didn't want to invest alongside them. An email like that could ruin your day.
marknutter 16y ago

gkoberger 16y ago

There's one thing I noticed about Arrington at Disrupt- sure, he's a dick, but he's only a dick to people who a) can take it and b) deserve it. I can't think of a single instance where he has called someone out, and it turned out later he was wrong. For example, some of the panel at Disrupt were being rude (talking amongst themselves during a startup presentation), and he stopped everything and called them out on it. These weren't just random judges- they were some of Silicon Valley's most influential people. He never once took a shot at any of the startups presenting. He may have given people like Carol Bartz a hard time, but they can take it. I may not necessarily want him as a friend, but I really respect Arrington. This email from Conway basically proves "yet again, Arrington knew what he was doing." ============================ Edits about the people posting below me: - Leo Laporte: a) Leo Laporte can take it, and b) Arrington was merely asking for a disclosure. I don't think that proves me wrong. - Last.fm: Linking to the official blog of a company being accused isn't proof. There's much more to the story that came after that (ie http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/; not to say linking to TC is any better) - I'm sure Arrington has been wrong at some point.. I just said I couldn't think of anything.

wwortiz 16y ago
Well here is one instant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsV-lgnAjps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsV-lgnAjps Edit: Leo Laporte and the Palm Pre for those who have seen it In response to your edit I was only posting because you said a) and b) not a) or b) and I don't think this falls into the category of b). He wasn't asking for disclosure so much that he did not get a pre review unit so he was strongly biased against those who did since he went on even after disclosure was completed.
- protomyth 16y ago
  The tone of the Gillmor Gang was always more aggressive and Arrington wasn't being particularly aggressive and was trying to make a point about how things work. I get the feeling he wasn't comfortable with the Gillmor Gang on his network and was looking for a way out. Leo Laporte takes quite a few shots at other people and can take it. It is often hard to listen to some of his "netcasts" because he does tend to be snarky about those flyover people. // disclosure: I do contribute the $2/mo to TWIT

jcnnghm 16y ago

My respect for Arrington keeps going up, and I can't help but admire what Ron Conway has to say about this. The no-bs approach works for him. I'm glad he called out the writing, I guess McClure's money is still green, but I don't think I could take anyone that writes like that seriously. Edited for clarity.

mberning 16y ago
You are going to criticize a guy based on a single private letter that he wrote? Maybe he was feeling anxious and frazzled and wrote this email quickly to help resolve his feelings. I know I certainly have, and I'm sure it was not the most elegant prose ever constructed.
- sparky 16y ago
  The parent meant that he is glad Ron Conway called out Dave McClure's response to the original TechCrunch piece (http://500hats.typepad.com/500blogs/2010/09/fire-in-the-valley.html http://500hats.typepad.com/500blogs/2010/09/fire-in-the-vall...). Took me a couple times to parse too :P

faramarz 16y ago

No one other Ron could have wrote this piece and I respect him all the more for coming out and being clear about his position (as if you didn't know it already). I can predict two things; 1) The younger angels react and further split themselves from the Ron way of doing business. or 2) You will hear no more about this public debacle. It's clearly bad for business and any smart investor will shut up now.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
These guys appear to be a bunch of ego-driven alpha males. They can no more stop talking about this, than piss up a tree. In fact, being part of a macho secret conspiracy will probably inflame them to further stupidities.

quesera 16y ago

Seriously, Ron Conway doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur"?? If that's possible, it's awesome, don't get me wrong, but it seems fishy.

waterlesscloud 16y ago
It made me happy to see that someone who must have typed the word 50 jillion times in his life can still get it wrong. It's a weird word.
- quesera 16y ago
  Indeed. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it. I have to believe it's intentional -- perhaps a conscious progression of the fluid language. Or maybe he just has a thing against the French. Either way, if anyone gets the privilege of defining a new spelling for the word, Ron is a good candidate. I think the community should embrace the new spelling, in appreciation. :)
girlzhack 16y ago
Ron only needs to help them, and he does so who cares about spelling! Besides, have you seen the atrocity that McClure calls a blog post?
lachyg 16y ago
Possibility that he just made a typo :)
- relix 16y ago
  Ten times exactly the same? Occam says it wasn't a typo ;)
  - lachyg 16y ago
    Faulty keyboard? ;)
mhartl 16y ago

mhartl 16y ago

Two reactions: (1) Ron Conway is a man of great integrity. (2) It's astonishing and fascinating that the world's most prolific angel investor apparently doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur". But he sure has helped a lot of them, and that's what really matters.

ojbyrne 16y ago
The President of the United States managed to miss the fact that the word derives from french.
- tomhoward 16y ago
  http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
  - rada 16y ago
    Unless I misinterpreted the purpose of your link, the denial of a conversation by a politician's PR flunkie does not mean it didn't happen.
    - tomhoward 16y ago
      Perhaps not but you could say that about a lot of things. People will make up their own minds, and most will do so based on their preexisting biases. Those who try to keep an open mind should be aware that this story is a rumour based on hearsay, not a verifiable fact.
wensing 16y ago
He probably wasn't focusing on his spelling/typos when he wrote this.
bootload 16y ago
"... he world's most prolific angel investor apparently doesn't know how to spell "entrepreneur" ..." There is another (sneaky) explanation. Ron simply sent out many of these emails to different people with another word with incorrect spelling. This allows you to identify exactly who leaks the message. This is an old "intelligence" trick used to identify the source of information leaks.

sahillavingia 16y ago

Can someone get a shirt printed that says "I ♥ Ron Conway"? Thanks.

mandeepdhami 16y ago
http://bit.ly/d0uHHX http://bit.ly/d0uHHX ;-)

nphase 16y ago

The only thing that makes me seriously wonder if this is a fake is the repeated misspelling of the word entrepreneurs: "entrepenuers" Edit: I just realized I read the posts backwards. I suppose it's not fake if that's actually what Dave McClure was referencing in his deleted tweet. Still. Perhaps these "super angel" could do with some spelling and grammar lessons. (Yes, I could probably use some too.)

cletus 16y ago

Arrington has has obviously lit a match to a powderkeg with "So a blogger walks into a bar...". McClure's response came across (to me) as defensive, which at least confirms that there is a concern about the appearance of impropriety. I would love to know who was at this meeting and who got this email from Conway. There are some useful short-term consequences of this: 1. These super angels probably don't trust each other anymore ("who tipped off Arrington?"). This is a good thing; 2. Meetings like this are less likely to happen in the short term. If they do, they'll probably be somewhere private (the back of a restaurant is not private); and 3. It highlights the importance and value of reputation and integrity (of which Conway's cup overfloweth). Further to (3) there is this quote from JP Morgan: > Asked: "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?" > "No sir," replied Morgan. "The first thing is character." > "Before money or property?" > "Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it...Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."

j_baker 16y ago
McClure's response wasn't defensive. Defensive would have been keeping quiet and not admitting to have been there in the first place.
- spoondan 16y ago
  Calling TechCrunch's reporting a "bullshit superangel conspiracy theory" is, if nothing else, a prime example of defensiveness.
  - j_baker 16y ago
    No, that's disagreement. People who have something to hide usually don't draw attention to themselves.
    - techiferous 16y ago
      I think your idea of defensiveness is different than most people's.

rjurney 16y ago

I'm having trouble believing this is not a hoax. This doesn't feel real to me. The entire thing feels like it is staged by Arrington and McClure.

Astro9k 16y ago
Could be all fake and disinformation. Stirring up controversy is how people get attention (and therefore money) nowadays.
smoody 16y ago
It's going to feel A LOT more surreal in the coming days I suspect. A lot of people are going to go into serious a$$-covering mode to distance themselves from these people as quickly as possible. It's not just a matter of reputation, it's a matter of landing on the preferred side of the law. Ron's email is great. I do wonder why he didn't write it before this whole thing broke. I'm guessing it would have been even tougher.
- Astro9k 16y ago
  Maybe this is the first a$$ covering salvo

j_baker 16y ago

This had me up until the McClure part. I'll need something more than an anonymous source to believe it.

yurylifshits 16y ago

By the way, can this meeting be connected to Angel List (http://angel.co/ http://angel.co/) in any way? As far as I understand, Angel List is an effort to create a centralized curated marketplace for angel investing. Seems very similar to AngelGate. Even if these are unrelated, I wonder, whether Angel List can be viewed as something against competition. On the other hand, Angel List simplifies angel fundrising a lot and therefore is beneficial for entrepreneurs.

jimboyoungblood 16y ago
AngelList has about as much in common with AngelGate as it does the Hells Angels. AngelList is the single most democratizing, pro-competitive thing that has happened to tech startup investing in a long time. (Disclaimer: i'm one of the angels on the list)
- yurylifshits 16y ago
  Happy to get my doubts answered :) And looking forward to use Angel List some day in the future.
Batsu 16y ago
I'm going to pistol whip the next person that says "AngelGate" (Worth it.)

HowardRoark 16y ago

Ron Conway rocks but the email almost feels like it was intended to be leaked.

akjetma 16y ago
He also could have been the one to tip Arrington to the meeting in the first place. Then, after alleging that it was one of the others who had tipped Arrington, he inspires mistrust among the colluding angels. This is all speculation, obviously, and a little too ''evil' mastermind' to be based on reality, I think.

losethos 16y ago

Pride before the fall; humility before honors. I worked as a bagger and construction worker, then landed a job at Ticketmaster. They seem to balance in years. On a guilt trip I took a job in a deli, then landed a job a head engineer. Both lasted months. I know the rules. "No one plans to take the path which brings you lower." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D37POA11KY&ob=av2e http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D37POA11KY&ob=av2e Meh... play the system? Take a shit job, so some angel can bless me. I don't look up to angels, I look them in the eye. Fuck you, I'm Jacob and I'll kick your fucken ass. God says... vouchsafest looking Hearken difficulty Lord passible refrained glad was unpermitted effectedst deluded favour profounder filleth seeks disorder appetite aid shifted united _ penalty calculate baptised discovery speaks Seraphim Texts willing heightening bore Italy assuring Eastern stead evermore password Excellently guardian commemorated piled talk sweeter unharmonising Juno submitting favours deserted eternity shattered year soberly extollers command recur thunder Replacement ornamenting like foster Forgive brackishness credulity solemn tore conformably One vein engaged Placed Robert choked suggestion sentences hurting credibility lineage slackened enquiring welcome Oil cauldron severed manors countenance expound lusteth worsted within unresolved used alternatively Nay twinkling Helpidius inasmuch pardoned laxly mischief trusting taking mighty gaining Treasury abode pleasest curious foretelling burnt adulterous governors eclipses trademark rites station costs knots deeper passed blending section contemporary eligible heavier Troy tcosa invited sufficest Entrust dearer litigation signified Idaho Pages Earth obediently Perverseness now heart blame lashest express privacy unlikeness brings Hart genuinely almost lose file shield bad regulate consciousness shifted observeth Betwixt Predicament rebelled magnitudes multiple wasting feeding abridged conceit blade distrusted Yeah, an angel cums when you bend over and take-it up the ass is my take on this: "Angels rejoice when a sinner is saved." Don't get me started on people. Catholic are foul loathsome that way, wannabe angels. God put it well, "Pride Money Choose." You can bow to a boss, do illegal shit and screw people over or be homeless like Jesus. God it sucked going on disability. God says... intrude oil harmonious dialogue processing Manichees beauteous needful nation trial troublesome foolishly confidentially instruction marked counsel Whither reap Nor proceeded needing profounder billion days between friends stiffly intently lottery abide electronic unwholesome discomfort The state foamed standest falling praises compass wearing fashion press presides inflicted

gaius 16y ago

I have stated consistently for year that I invest because I love helping entrepenuers and watching them learn and succeed. Oh please! We're all capitalists here, nothing to be ashamed of.

nocman 16y ago
Conway didn't say that he's not interested in making lots of money. Sounded to me like he was just pointing out that making money is not his primary motivation for investing. Now, I don't know him at all, so I can't vouch for whether he's being honest or not. However, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of free-market-loving capitalists in this country (present company included) who do the things they do with "making lots of money" quite a ways down on their priority lists. In fact, many of us would be perfectly content with just loving what we do, making enough to pay the bills, support our families, and have a little bit left over to do some fun and meaningful things with.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Agreed. I was asked by my boss to "examine my priorities" when I came in 5 after 8 from driving by son to his new school (we were moving, I wanted him to be in same school for the whole year). Next morning I delivered my prioritized list to him - work was #12. Try it, you will be surprised. Don't get me wrong, money is part of the equation for me, but certainly I won't sacrifice health, family, security etc for a little bit more of it (or for a particular job etc).
  - zackattack 16y ago
    How did he respond?
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      I worked there for years after. I learned later he was stressed that day - three separate people walked into his office at different times, saying they were going to quit if something didn't change (I wasn't one of them). I guess he changed, I didn't hear any more about it.

jrockway 16y ago

It would have been better. If each sentence was not. Its own paragraph.

lanstein 16y ago
With some missing periods

jyothi 16y ago

It is very difficult to be what Ron Conway is. Respect. He is not preaching but living an example & telling others that it can be done. The problem is that this mail was meant only for super angels to possibly introspect and be influenced. Not to be beaten around in public forums embarrassing the investors. Sometimes confessions in private work better as a fix. It is hard in public. If Arrington had any sense he would have kept quiet and not divert attention to a debacle through TC at the cost of start-up community.

adammichaelc 16y ago
I don't agree that Arrington should have kept quiet. When you shine a light in a dark room you are able to see what people do when they think nobody is looking. In Arrington's case, he gave the world a front-row seat in a meeting where the participants thought they were in private -- this is a very good thing in my opinion. With few exceptions, transparency is a win for society and business because it keeps people honest. Arrington's report puts the "secret-meeting participants" on notice that they can't get away with this kind of thing, and it also alerts entrepreneurs to watch out for it. Both very good things.
- dasil003 16y ago
  I agree with this assessment. Sure it's linkbaity and Arrington has an ulterior motive of stirring up drama for page views, but at the end of the day it passes the smell test. Not necessarily that collusion occurred, but just that things may have been heading in that direction... it's probably a pretty gray area when you think about all the way that angel investments are structured and the diverse opinions among angles. All the drama will probably blow over in a few days, and in the end both the super angels and entrepreneurs will be better off for this ethics-check having occurred.

fady 16y ago

via a comment on TC by "Hhhmmm": This email reeks of someone trying to steer clear of trouble and keep their name clean. It also reads more like a public blog post, not a private email. I wouldn't be surprised if Conway tipped TC himself. Am I right in thinking Conway attended two meetings? If he disagreed so strongly with what was being discussed, why return for the 2nd?

kyro 16y ago
With the reply to that saying he never attended either of the meetings.

narrator 16y ago

It almost reminds me of what happened with derivatives, securitization and HFT on wall street. The game became all about bamboozling the regulators and investors with complicated financial games instead of creating real wealth. There's this ugly thing in American business where money is made on making things overly complicated. Where instead of trying to solve economic problems people are just trying to win at chess.

sinzone 16y ago

Here the real-time debate: http://office.mashape.com/question/debate.html http://office.mashape.com/question/debate.html

joelmichael 16y ago

Arrington feeds on drama, quite literally.

bl4k 16y ago

McClure dug himself into a hole with his first response. He didn't think two moves ahead. In poker parlance what McClure did was to bet the turn on a semi-bluff not anticipating an all-in shove from his opponent on the river. McClure's post - through both its style and its content, left an opening for Conway to come out with this email. Dave is stuck now, and his only response from here is to come clean in some way and clear the air. McClure has made all sorts of mistakes, first the blog post, and then the accidental tweet. He is not handling this very well and I feel for him because he is the only person from the dinner who is speaking out. The other people in attendance are suspiciously quiet (and giving away that they were there by being quiet) and leaving it to Dave to do the talking (and not doing a very good job for himself or for the rest of them).

iamwil 16y ago
Which kinda sucks, since re-reading his post, it seems like he was invited there. To me, it seems probable that he wasn't the ring leader(s), but merely the one that's talking the loudest. Doesn't excuse the guy, but he's getting the spotlight shone on him while the others sneak off into the night unnoticed.
- bl4k 16y ago
  this defense is not a whole lot better: http://twitter.com/jeff/status/25358068083 http://twitter.com/jeff/status/25358068083

flocial 16y ago

Ron Conway wasn't at the dinner in question. If you read all the information out there, it all comes down to Mike got snubbed, made wild allegations in anger, the first person to stand up (Dave) got ran over by the collective truck, TechCrunch posts suggestive information and the party goes on. The ball is still in Mike's court to produce something of substance. At first, I admired Tech Crunch for having the guts to post something like it but looking it over there's no substance to it. It's just yellow journalism for the digital age. Complete rubbish that feeds into the collective psyche.

sachbh 16y ago

F(orget) this s(tuff)! Lets go build great products and businesses. Its taking away 15 mins we don't have.

devmonk 16y ago

As others said, I don't think I've ever see entrepreneur spelled entrepenuer quite that many times before. If the nuclear bomb was mispelling entrepreneur, it has been dropped. Though, I appreciate Ron's willingness to speak out against the collusion of these investors to wreak havoc on their competition.

annajohnson 16y ago

I don't think there's anything suspect about Ron Conway's misspelling of 'entrepreneur'. He probably just banged out the email without doing a spell-check. Let's remember it was a private email. Had he intended to have it published he probably would have taken more care. I can't speak for Ron, of course, but I will say that I frequently write the word "entrepreneur" (i.e. in blog posts, emails, etc). I'm not sure why - maybe it's the way I touch-type - but I often miss the second 'r'. I typically don't even notice until I do a spell-check. All in all, I think it was just an innocent mistake.

Sukotto 16y ago

I find it hard to tell if this is a heartfelt attempt to "tell it like it is", or masterful damage control to pull his buddy's ass out of the fire. PG vouches for him (which counts for a lot) so maybe it's completely legit and heartfelt. If so, it does indicate a certain lapse of judgment on the author's part. Why on Earth would he think something this inflammatory would stay secret? It must be obvious to everyone involved that they have serious operational-security issues. There's no way something like this would be kept private when the members of the group couldn't even keep the existence and location of their meeting a secret from a notoriously trigger-happy (and widely read) blogger. If it isn't heartfelt, then it walks through the checklist of everything you should do for damage control when you or someone in your circle faces an accusation of collusion / conspiracy: - Loudly and vehemently disagree with the "bad group"'s philosophy; - Explain the presence of the buddy in "bad group" in terms of how he didn't want to be involved but was sucked in and unable to escape. (Don't wave this type away as "bad judgment" since it implies guilt); - Completely disavow the "bad" group; - Keep focus on how you only care about "good group"; - Repeatedly assert that you always look out for "good group" and you would never allow anything bad to happen to "good group" (Incidentally, the spelling errors were a particularly nice touch.)

rfugger 16y ago
Notice how he admits that the group is guilty of bitching about deal structures with entrepreneurs, while drawing attention away from the greater crime of collusion. My thought is that this is an attempt to draw attention away from the real crime here by throwing up more distraction.
sliverstorm 16y ago
It DOES have many grammatical flaws and the writing style strongly reminds me of the unvetted typing of a classic older user who 'adopted' the net in his later years. The profile that his letter draws to mind strongly suggests to me that it was either: 1) authentic and written by him and only him 2) Masterfully manipulative and two steps ahead of me
- ahoyhere 16y ago

varjag 16y ago

> Please keep this confidential even though I know that will be hard since two of you let your egos take over and show Arrington how important you are by telling him you were headed to a “secret” angel gathering. So true.

to_jon 16y ago

As entrepreneurs, we need both Conway and the Super Angels. It's time for everyone to get over these unfortunate meetings and forgive the participants. Enough is enough. Did they do something wrong? Hell yes. But it's been exposed, examined, and discussed. Publicly stoning a group of angels represents the worst kind of mob behavior and reflects poorly on entrepreneurs as an investment class. Let's not forget that wealthy individuals have many different options for investing their money that historically have higher rates of return (i.e. make more money) than investments in startup companies. Many angels invest in startups because it's more fun than profitable. Let's not change that dynamic in spite of ourselves. At the end of the day, we want angel investing to be the biggest game possible. It's a surplus of angel money that has put entrepreneurs in the driver's seat and made term sheets extremely favorable to founders. Fewer angels in the mix and the scenario can change quickly. It's time to prove that we're better than a small group of angels who engaged in such unfortunate behavior. It's time to forgive and move on.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
Ok, forgiveness is keen, but its not possible to forgive criminal acts. It's not up to this community. Personally I look forward to the shakeup. The money will find its own level, whether its this group of idiots or some other.

livando 16y ago

it's not a memo, it's a mission statement.

JabavuAdams 16y ago

With all the money and resources at these peoples' disposal, why the hell would they meet at a bar / restaurant to plan their nefarious nefariousness? Wouldn't this kind of business be better transacted on a yacht or submarine?

paramendra 16y ago

My take home word from Conway's email: binary. Angelgate rolls on. http://goo.gl/fb/PpyhK http://goo.gl/fb/PpyhK

rblion 16y ago

the godfather has spoken.

leif 16y ago

Man, sometimes I find it hard to express how much I love watching awkward dudes with enough money to think they're important get into catfights across blogs.

deleted 16y ago

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