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Labor shortages absolutely exist. If there are 100 jobs requiring a specific skill and only 97 people exist who have that skill, that's a labor shortage. Those

by meritt 8y ago

Labor shortages absolutely exist. If there are 100 jobs requiring a specific skill and only 97 people exist who have that skill, that's a labor shortage. Those companies can compete for those workers all they want, but it doesn't magically create 3 new workers. Those shortages create opportunities and more people train to fill those gaps but it takes some amount of time before 3 new workers are available.

stevenwoo 8y ago
There are some alternatives that do not increase the labor supply - for farmers they might switch to a crop that requires less manual labor or is mechanizable so they do not need as many workers, and demand for that crop might be filled by imports from another country. It seems like something weird is going on with farm labor because we hear about a shortage of workers every couple of years but farm worker pay have not gone up that much ( up to half the average California workers salary). Here's one example of the guy in Stockton paying about 16000(?) versus the people in Napa paying 40000 for the same crop/work (the grapes in Napa are worth more), and Napa farm workers are commuting from the Central Valley. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
lopmotr 8y ago
In that case, 3 companies will realize they don't actually need those workers afterall, not for the salary they're demanding. They'll find another way to do business without hiring them, or they might even go out of business, which is fine and normal in a well functioning economy. There's actually no need for truck drivers. People could carry loads on their backs. The reason companies don't hire people for this is because they're much more expensive (ignoring speed/etc.) than truck drivers. So if you're saying there can be labor shortages (in a free market), you could also say there's a severe shortage of human thing-carriers, which is ridiculous.
- meritt 8y ago
  > In that case, 3 companies will realize they don't actually need those workers afterall, not for the salary they're demanding. They'll find another way to do business without hiring them, or they might even go out of business, which is fine and normal in a well functioning economy. Absolutely that could happen. But it's funny how you refuse to acknowledge that there may be a "labor shortage" and instead you present it as a "abundance of jobs", as if they aren't two sides of the same coin. Your second point is just ridiculous, I agree.
  - lopmotr 8y ago
    It's neither a labor shortage nor an abundance of jobs because there's no correct amount of labor to compare against. All it is is a price for labor which sometimes goes up and sometimes goes down, but there's no correct price at which there's neither a shortage nor an oversupply. If it's ridiculous to say there's a shortage of thing-carriers, how is the different from saying there's a shortage of truck drivers? What's the difference? If you just dismiss it as ridiculous, then you probably don't know what you're talking about.
    - meritt 8y ago
      Truck drivers require a specific skill and license. There's a finite amount of those people at any point in time. If the number of jobs exceeds the number of workers, then we have an abundance of jobs in relation to the amount of human capital. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.
      - lopmotr 8y ago
        You're missing the point. This has nothing to do with more drivers entering the market to return the numbers to any artificial "correct" number. If more companies wanted truck drivers more desperately, their pay would go up. Same number of drivers but they'd all earn more as employers compete to get what's available. Or if half of them quit, the pay for the remaining half would go up. Less truck driving would be done and fewer companies would need truck drivers (at the price they now demand).
nradov 8y ago
What you have described is not a labor shortage.
- meritt 8y ago
  Please explain to me what a labor shortage is then, if it's not a shortage of labor. Should I be using the more economically correct phrase 'scarcity of human capital'?

by meritt 8y ago

stevenwoo 8y ago

There are some alternatives that do not increase the labor supply - for farmers they might switch to a crop that requires less manual labor or is mechanizable so they do not need as many workers, and demand for that crop might be filled by imports from another country. It seems like something weird is going on with farm labor because we hear about a shortage of workers every couple of years but farm worker pay have not gone up that much ( up to half the average California workers salary). Here's one example of the guy in Stockton paying about 16000(?) versus the people in Napa paying 40000 for the same crop/work (the grapes in Napa are worth more), and Napa farm workers are commuting from the Central Valley. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

lopmotr 8y ago

In that case, 3 companies will realize they don't actually need those workers afterall, not for the salary they're demanding. They'll find another way to do business without hiring them, or they might even go out of business, which is fine and normal in a well functioning economy. There's actually no need for truck drivers. People could carry loads on their backs. The reason companies don't hire people for this is because they're much more expensive (ignoring speed/etc.) than truck drivers. So if you're saying there can be labor shortages (in a free market), you could also say there's a severe shortage of human thing-carriers, which is ridiculous.

meritt 8y ago
> In that case, 3 companies will realize they don't actually need those workers afterall, not for the salary they're demanding. They'll find another way to do business without hiring them, or they might even go out of business, which is fine and normal in a well functioning economy. Absolutely that could happen. But it's funny how you refuse to acknowledge that there may be a "labor shortage" and instead you present it as a "abundance of jobs", as if they aren't two sides of the same coin. Your second point is just ridiculous, I agree.
- lopmotr 8y ago
  It's neither a labor shortage nor an abundance of jobs because there's no correct amount of labor to compare against. All it is is a price for labor which sometimes goes up and sometimes goes down, but there's no correct price at which there's neither a shortage nor an oversupply. If it's ridiculous to say there's a shortage of thing-carriers, how is the different from saying there's a shortage of truck drivers? What's the difference? If you just dismiss it as ridiculous, then you probably don't know what you're talking about.
  - meritt 8y ago
    Truck drivers require a specific skill and license. There's a finite amount of those people at any point in time. If the number of jobs exceeds the number of workers, then we have an abundance of jobs in relation to the amount of human capital. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.
    - lopmotr 8y ago
      You're missing the point. This has nothing to do with more drivers entering the market to return the numbers to any artificial "correct" number. If more companies wanted truck drivers more desperately, their pay would go up. Same number of drivers but they'd all earn more as employers compete to get what's available. Or if half of them quit, the pay for the remaining half would go up. Less truck driving would be done and fewer companies would need truck drivers (at the price they now demand).

nradov 8y ago

What you have described is not a labor shortage.

meritt 8y ago
Please explain to me what a labor shortage is then, if it's not a shortage of labor. Should I be using the more economically correct phrase 'scarcity of human capital'?