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Ask HN: Should I take this Google job offer?

• Spoutingshite 16y ago
  Go for it! I cant comment on the salary package but it sounds like a life changing opportunity. Cease the day, fly the roost, grasp the nettle!
• michaelhalligan 16y ago
  $110k seems a tad low for someone with over a decade's experience in the bay area. I'd be looking for more around $150k/year in wage slavery as an overall comp package (bonuses and expected stock sale value added to base salary)
  • enki 16y ago
    http://payscale.com/ http://payscale.com/ and http://glassdoor.com/ http://glassdoor.com/ suggest that the median is lower, not higher. But that's not even the point. With $110k you'll live more than great here, and if you're good you can always find new opportunities or a raise. Unless you have better alternatives, go for it - i'd trade a lot of income to live here rather than back home :)
    • tomstuart 16y ago
      IANAIL, but I expect that being on (presumably) an H1B will severely limit the OP's ability to shop around for new opportunities or raises.
      • davidw 16y ago
        Perhaps, but staying in the UK is in some ways even more limiting. Having just gone on a trip to Ireland, I'd do it just to get away from the dank darkness that pervades those northern lands:-)
        • jrockway 16y ago
          Can't UK citizens / permanent residents work anywhere in the EU?
          • davidw 16y ago
            Sure, but objectively, it's probably easier and more remunerative in many ways to work for Google in the Bay Area than, say, seek out a job in Sicily, where the weather is certainly wonderful, but there are not many IT jobs and they generally aren't of the interesting variety (unless you did something, like, say, create Redis, in which case you can happily stay in Sicily and hack on your project:-). Not to mention the language barrier and cultural differences. Our move from Padova to Innsbruck, Austria, 4 hours away by car, was far, far more difficult than when I moved from Portland, Oregon to the Bay Area years ago. For instance, there are no one-way rental trucks in Europe that I know of, so if you have furniture or things to move, it's going to be expensive and/or time-consuming.
            • mulch 16y ago
              Trucking is hidelously expensive on the continent. No idea why. Shipping will be WAY cheaper in any port city. You'd be better off probably getting rid of your stuff and just getting new stuff (used, Ikea, whatever).
              • davidw 16y ago
                Renting a van isn't that expensive here. The problem is that you can't, say, rent it in Innsbruck and drop it off in Padova, but you have to drive down to Padova, rent the van, drive it back up to Innsbruck in the middle of the night in a snow storm over the Brenner pass, with the unloaded rear wheels not getting a lot of traction, load it up, and then drive it back down to Padova.
    • mulch 16y ago
      Part of the problem with these kinds of surveys is it's hard to know if you're comparing apples to oranges. - Are they surveying base salary? Or total compensation? Or perhaps just including bonuses? - Are the surveys voluntary? Life has taught me people lie about their income all the time.
  • aphexairlines 16y ago
    His overall package isn't $110k. It's that plus GSUs, which apparently vest at about 1/4 of the units per year, so an extra $25.7k/yr for a $135.7k package not counting bonuses.
  • benmccann 16y ago
    If you read the original post, $110k is the base salary, which means total comp is probably closer $170k.
• deleted 16y ago
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• ardit33 16y ago
  110k is way too low, they are definitely lowballing you. If you think you are good, you should be making at least 130k-140k+, so I am sure you can negotiate that. If they don't come up on salary, you still can do the following: 1. Join google, work hard, get some experience, make some friends, then 2. Few months (or years) later, look for better opportunity with a better pay. It would be easier for you to find another job. But, you should really consider other lifestyle factors: 1. If you have a family 110k is way too low, as most likely your wife is not going to be able to work. 2. If you are single, you are more likely going to stay single. If you are in a age (35) that are looking to find a long time partner to form a family, dating in the valley is going to suck. I mean really really bad. SF is a bit better, still not that great to find a quality life partner.
  • jscore 16y ago
    I couldn't agree more with #2. It's downright terrible.
    • davidw 16y ago
      He does (presumably) have a British accent though, which ought to count for something in terms of standing out from the crowd.
      • tommizzle 16y ago
        Hah - The things James Bond has done for our country...
        • davidw 16y ago
          Not really James Bond, just the allure of something different. Same reason people take more notice of an American in Italy. The important thing, I guess, is to come from somewhere 'interesting' to people.
          • deleted 16y ago
            [deleted]
• vonconrad 16y ago
  I would say "do it." Working for Google is a dream to many developers/engineers. Their reputation is generally pretty good. Career wise? If you don't end up liking it (or think that the salary is too low), you'll be in the Bay area with a visa, Google on your resume and 12+ years of experience (assuming you'll be with Google for at least a year). I would bet your chances of getting another kickass job would be a lot higher than if you didn't take the Google job.
  • deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  • kia 16y ago
    As far as I know H1B is company specific. If you change the company you have to get another H1B to work for that company.
    • europa 16y ago
      Once you have an H1 b , transferring that to a different company is not that difficult.
      • jbarham 16y ago
        Transferring the H1B to a different company is straightforward. However (and this happened to me) if the original company is sponsoring your green card, you will have to restart the green card application process with your new employer (unless you are in the final stage of the process). Bear in mind that the green card process can take several years. IMO this is an unacceptably high risk.
    • trustfundbaby 16y ago
      Incorrect ... you just have to do a H1B transfer which costs about $1500 in fees, and is very straight forward.
      • mavelikara 16y ago
• ericabiz 16y ago
  Seems a bit low for the Bay Area, but this is subjective and depends on what else they are giving you in terms of perks (free food, etc.) Someone else said rent was $1500. I lived in the Bay Area for 10 years and $1500 gets you a 1BR apartment (maybe 2BR if you want to live south or east). It gets you a share if you want to live in San Francisco. For a house, you are looking at $3K+.
  • _delirium 16y ago
    You can get houses for under $3k if you're okay with the south bay, and not falling apart ones in ghettoes either. Santa Clara and San Jose have plenty of 2br houses around $1500, and nice 3br houses in the $2000-2500 range. You only have to go to $3k+ if you want more like 4-5br, or a particularly upscale city (Palo Alto, Los Gatos, etc.).
    • aphexairlines 16y ago
      looks like the comment was about Palo Alto, Mtn View, etc since she wrote "maybe 2BR if you want to live south or east."
  • mrtron 16y ago
    Please don't sign posts here, we can see your name above your posts. Thanks!
    • ericabiz 16y ago
      If I don't sign them, people address me as "he" consistently.
      • mrtron 16y ago
        Who cares? http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  • lsc 16y ago
    I've lived in Santa Clara and Sunnyvale, both quite near the google campuses in Mountain View. The cheapest place I lived was a 2 bedroom above the Lawrence expressway train station in Santa Clara. It was the "bad part of town" by the standards of Santa Clara, but I never felt afraid for myself or my belongings. $1200 a month for the 2 bedroom. The apartment was kindof falling apart, though. after that, I rented a duplex (a house with a garage that was attached to the garage of another house) for $1500 a month in a reasonably nice part of Sunnyvale. Walking distance to downtown. 2 bedrooms and a garage. Again, the place was old and not particularly well-constructed. It was reasonably maintained and the cosmetics were dealt with, though. I'm currently in a 2 bedroom apartment, also in sunnyvale, that is very well constructed (good sound insulation, sprinklers, built within the last 20 years) it's walking distance to the AMD building and Fry's. It's around $1750 a month. All of these places are between 10 and 30 minutes from google, depending on the traffic. The south bay is quite a bit cheaper and, uh, more 'suburban' than the city. the thing to watch for is that this place was built as a suburb; e.g. most of the construction is done pretty poorly, and much of it is old. We need to knock down some of the old tract homes and build some high rises, but we won't. Of all the places I've lived around here, this apartment is the first one with properly earthed power. Really, all of Mountain View, Sunnyvale, and Santa Clara is pretty safe. Parts of San Jose can get a little bit more dicey but is still quite a bit better than the city as far as getting your windows broken for a GPS. If you head north of google, so long as you stay out of east palo alto, you are fine, crime-wise, but it's all pretty expensive (except, of course, east palo alto) Of course, this all depends on your standards. I drive a car that isn't worth much more than a month of my rent; if you have BMW tastes, you are going to have to pay more.
• HaloZero 16y ago
  I know at least one college grad who is getting more GSU than you though, they are 100% lowballing you but they are also sponsoring your Visa to come to the US. Might affect their offer.
  • mulch 16y ago
    Starting GSUs? Apparently they're topped up every now and again.
• scg 16y ago
  Consider doing a startup. Most likely you'll be able to get a good job later on if you change your mind. If startups aren't your thing for now, that's OK. Get an offer from Facebook and ask Google for a better deal. It's great to strive for a better deal and lament about your GSUs, but I wouldn't loose too much sleep on it. Money shouldn't be the first thing you should worry about. IMHO Google is still one of the best companies to work for. Yes, it's more like a corporation and less like a startup but it's still a great place to be for an engineer.
• djhworld 16y ago
  Why do you put yourself down about your degree? You've been working in the industry for 11 years and have just got a job offer from probably one of the hardest companies to get into - no one cares about your degree nowadays, you've proven yourself already.
  • mulch 16y ago
    Without opening another can of worms, doors are more easily opened here if you have a 1st or 2:1 from say Oxford or Cambridge, particularly in the City. From across the pond it looks like the US is worse for this with grads from Stanford, MIT or CMU having a way easier time of it career-wise. It seems a lot easier to get in those "name" companies.
    • djhworld 16y ago
      But all this is largely irrelevant, he has the job offer on the table already! That means the Google have placed emphasis on his experience and character rather than where he went to University. If he was applying to Google, fresh out of University (outside of the so called 'top 10') and was wondering if he was in with a chance, then that would be a different story, but he's proven his worth in the industry already.
      • bmj 16y ago
        He == the original poster I think straight out of university, at least in my experience here in the States, having a degree from a "known" school helps. That said, it does not prevent you from getting good work, especially if you've already built up a social network.
    • jacquesm 16y ago
      Yes, but this is one of the hardest doors of all to open and it's open for you right now.
      • sspencer 16y ago
        100 percent agree. Never mind where you went, it's about where you are GOING.
• MatthewBloch 16y ago
  As a fellow Brit, I agree the salary sounds low, but if you don't have family ties, want a change from the drizzly south-east to the sunny heart of hacker culture, it sounds unbeatable. Good luck!
• kral 16y ago
  My 2 cents: I know we're talking about real life and in real life you can't eat only with dreams, but work for Google (or other $BigCompany) is life changing... Think about how much you could gain in experience... And experience is something you can "spend" without consume it.
• karthikm 16y ago
  Google's offer: Useless. Moving to the bay area: Priceless. Go for it!
• Eduis 16y ago
  I'm an ex googler but not out of the engineering side so I can't comment on exactly what their current norm is. In general, this is a pretty typical offer for Google for a mid range employee, what outside of engineering they'd call an E5 or E6. Usually their salary & GSUs are negotiable, but not by much. Google does't pay a ton in general, and as others have mentioned, if you have a family on this salary with the potential that your wife can't work, things might be a stretch in the Bay Area. However, working for Google is an amazing experience. You're not going to retire early on the money you make. You'll have to balance your needs against the potential for future gains with Google on your resume. I'm sure the experience would be positive in many areas, but you shouldn't expect much more from them.
• dotBen 16y ago
  Fellow Brit who moved out here 4 years ago.. I say go for it, especially if Google are going to sponsor your H1B. Make sure you completely understand the visa process and timeline though (if it's H1B you may have to wait a period of time before you can actually move). Don't forget you could always move jobs in a year so Google is a great 'landing' into the Bay Area. If you have 11 years experience $110k seems a little low but it might be more than you are getting in UK (I was always paid shit in UK) and cost of living is lower here in the Bay Area (even in SF compared to London). Google is known for paying a little lower than average AND they will expect you to really put in the hours. I don't know many Googlers who actually get to work on their 20% time projects, either. I personally would move to the City (San Francisco) and commute down in the Google busses. At this point there are not going to be many firms that will pay the ~$20k for the visa application so I say go for it and then reassess what you REALLY want to do while you are out here. Best of luck!
  • iampims 16y ago
    Did your visa application cost $20k? It seems extremely high. I heard it's usually around $5K (fees + lawyers).
    • tptacek 16y ago
      The numbers we're getting are slightly south of that, too.
    • lemming 16y ago
      Right, last I heard it was $5k for an H1B, around $10k for a Green Card.
    • trustfundbaby 16y ago
      I know the costs are a little higher if you have a certain percentage of h1-b employees on your staff. But 20K is a little out of control.
    • dotBen 16y ago
      In house, like Google, will have people on staff who do this as their job (ie costs lower). A startup looking to sponsor an H1B, based on my experience, is going to be quoted ~$20k in legal + filing fees from a small-medium law firm (ie not Fenwick but not USAVisas.net either [made up site, you get my drift]).
• aaroneous 16y ago
  What're GSUs?
  • prodigal_erik 16y ago
    Apparently "Google Stock Units" are restricted stock rather than options. If they vest over five years (I don't actually know but this is common elsewhere), 200 shares will be an extra $20k/year or more. Well, unless their stock tanks.
    • aaroneous 16y ago
      Thanks! I'm particularly amused that using google couldn't provide any help in figuring that one out.
• flannell 16y ago
  I'm guessing your no name poly is actually De Montfort university in Leicester? It was a dump back in 1999 when I got my 2.1 CompSci degree. An old friend of mine from uni moved from the UK to SanFran to work for Lucas Arts and I think it was the best move he ever made. So, seems like a good move. Good luck!
• known 16y ago
  Depends on the project you're going work in Google.
  • joshu 16y ago
    Unlike most companies, you don't get to know that beforehand. This prevents managers from hiring people who are just good enough for a specific role.
• strlen 16y ago
  Do it. $110k is lower than you might get elsewhere, but it shouldn't matter for this reason: * Compared to Microsoft, Apple, etc... $110k for somebody coming on a visa is still a good deal. If you're local to the valley, then sure you can get a higher number. Nonetheless, this is still competitive. * If $110k is "too low" for you to live off, even with a family in the valley, you're doing something wrong. Newsflash: there are people here who aren't software engineers (but other educated, technical intelligentsia types) and they live just fine on $70-90k (this is what a physicist I knew at Intel was making, for example). * Working at Google increases your market value tremendously. As does being local to the valley and having a visa. * Working for a well-funded, mid-to-late stage startup is another attractive option in the valley (that's what I am doing and I am very happy where I am), but that is hypothetical: you have an offer in your hand from Google and they're sponsoring you from a visa. Take it; if you don't like after a few years, your options are plentiful (if you don't get a raise at Google -- and I'd be surprised if that's the case -- you'll easily be able to get a higher salary elsewhere).
  • keeptrying 16y ago
    Also just to add to this, with your experience you'd be able to apply in the EB2 category for a Green Card and since your British, you should be able to get it in 2 years or less. And once you have a visa, you can work for anyone here in the US by just transferring it. Transferring a visa is much much simpler a process than getting a new one. I think this is a great opportunity to get to the states and work in a great environment. Some of my friends came to the states with $40K starting salary and now they earn about $100K base + bonus(Denver,CO).
    • trustfundbaby 16y ago
      > Also just to add to this, with your experience you'd be able to apply in the EB2 category for a Green Card and since your British, you should be able to get it in 2 years or less. I can't second this enough, be sure to stay on top of this and nudge them to file for the Green card at the same time they file for the h1-b or very soon after. Then you can have a green card in no time at all.
• iamelgringo 16y ago
  I have no idea whether to take the gig or not, but just know that if you take the job at Google, you're not going to be able to work on side projects in your spare time. California law states that as long as the person isn't in direct competition with their employer, they can keep any IP they develop while not on company time. If you work for Google, however, you work for a company who is trying to organize the world's information. So, arguably, pretty much any code you write in your spare time competes with Google.
  • lrm242 16y ago
    I'm sorry, but that isn't correct. California employment law is the most liberal around when it comes to protecting an employees right to perform works on their own time. As long as you don't build a competing search engine, write a competitor to Google mail, etc you're fine. In fact, even if you did, it is likely that Google won't care and won't sue, because the law leans towards the employee in this case.
    • cloudkj 16y ago
      Curious - can you cite any cases to support this?
    • iamelgringo 16y ago
      Ummmm... I have had a number of conversations with Google employees that have told me that they've been prevented from working on outside projects because of this. Whether Google is on the right side of the law, or not, that's another conversation entirely, but what I'm telling you is from GOOG employees venting to me about work. YMMV
• pkghost 16y ago
  200 Google Stock Units ~ $100,000 over 4 years (probably). $110k + $25k = $135k.
• losethos 16y ago
  You want a company with nice perks.
• somabc 16y ago
  I would do it. If you are worried about doors being closed in the UK by not going to Oxford or Cambridge then working for Google (and in Silicon Valley no less) will open up even more doors.
• jacquesm 16y ago
  Of course you should do it. Yes, Google is a large company. But they're one of the most respected software companies in the world and even if longer term you decide to part again just having them on your resume is going to make it worth it, that's not counting the possibility to expand your network and the ability to learn from some of the best minds on the planet when it comes to writing software. The salary should be the least of your concerns, that's short term thinking.
• devmonk 16y ago
  The offer sounds good to me. In other parts of the country for an FTE, that's not too shabby, and it will look loads better on your resume (depending on what you'll be doing and how that fits with your goals) than other positions. But, I'm concerned that you are asking HN. Don't take a job you'll hate, even if it is for Google. It isn't worth it.
• jimbobimbo 16y ago
  Just ask yourself a question: do you want to live in US for reason other than working for Google? If yes, go for it - $110k for a start is a good salary (I started from $60k in NJ few years back, single). Given that you'll be in a Valley, have your visa transferred to someone else, if you don't like it at Google, would not be a problem. A caution: I hope you have at least master's degree, because in this case you'll be able to start EB-2 GC process, which is way faster than EB-3.
• Artagra 16y ago
  I'd go for it. Having two years of working for Google on your CV will open doors in the future. Plus, you may find you love it and stay there for the rest of your life! One thing I would take note of, as someone not from the US - realise that the US is very, very different to somewhere like the UK. In my limited experiences, the similarities mask the differences.
• sshah 16y ago
  As someone who is not working in Google, not in the Bay area, 33 and immigrant - I would do it. $110K is low for the valley. But, Google will be a good addition on my resume, I will be in the heart of Silicon valley. I will LIVE software for however long I stay here. Work hard in the first year, once they like your work - ask for a raise or fat(ter) bonus. Work hard in the second year. Move up. Work hard in the third year. Ask for money again. Most probably they will be tired of you. Leave.....
• SanjayUttam 16y ago
  I say take it, it will likely be a great experience. Regarding salary: If you feel it is a bit low see if they can increase a bit (especially if this is the first number they're approached you with) Worse comes to worse, they say they cannot give you more, and you still take it. Oh yeah...and congratulations on the offer.
• misterm 16y ago
  File this under "problems that I wish I had".
• Jun8 16y ago
  Your situation is complicated by the big move from a different country (do you have a home to sell, family, kids, etc.). But here are my thoughts: * $110K is OK. In California that's not a lot of money. However, don't be fooled by Google base salaries, they are lower than other comparable companies but the bonuses can be out of this world. Typically they could be 30% of you salary but if you can get your hands on an important project, sky's the limit. * As others have noted, Google is a huge resume booster. This is doubly true in your case, since you're from another country and have a "no-name degree". After this, it would be orders of magnitude easier for you to land a new job in the valley. * But know that the Google culture can be caustic, esp. if you're older and is not quite used to pulling 11pm workdays regularly. The culture is super alpha-geek with every young hot shot trying to prove him/herself and make their fortune in 2-3 years. Tl;dr: You will work your ass off. * The initial project is crucial. Although everybody says you can change projects at will, this can only be done after 18 months or so for new hires. I had friends stuck in backwater projects leaving G without waiting that long. So, summary: If you're planning to relaunch your career in the Valley and maybe eventually go the startup way, this is an excellent opportunity, do it immediately. Go there, quickly get your green card, work for 2 years, and jump either to a better position in G or ideally to another company.
  • jbarham 16y ago
    > quickly get your green card This is easier said than done since Google first has to sponsor your green card application (it's not automatic with an H1B visa) and in my experience the government bureaucracy that handles green cards doesn't know the meaning of the word "quick".
    • Jun8 16y ago
      You're right, the application process does have a large variation. However, anecdotal evidence (from my colleagues and me) suggests that if you're not from India or China, you should get it in about 1.5 - 2 years from application.
      • codedump124 16y ago
• brg 16y ago
  This is in line with SWEIII offers. However, your experience should be enough to be slotted into Senior, which will increase your salary and GSU's. If this is a senior/slotting offer it is low. If you come in at SWEIII you will be in the same buck as newly hired graduate students, SWEII's who have had a lucky year, and lifers with no motivation. There are others in that bucket, but those are the ones with whom you will be incorrectly compared.
  • mulch 16y ago
    What base do grads start at?
    • brg 16y ago
      SWEII (Software Engineer 2). Management considers this a transitional level. People are expected to move out of it quickly.
      • mulch 16y ago
        What I mean is base salary.
        • brg 16y ago
          It varies by location, glassdoor's values are accurate.
• jarsj 16y ago
  I am an X-Googler. It's a great company to work and what you see and learn there will definitely add a lot of value to you for future. Also, the actual money you will make at google will be more than your base pay. The bonuses are good (I am not sure I can reveal the exact numbers here, but read your offer letter carefully and make some min-max calculations, It won't be hard for you to land up with an average). Then there's free food and other benefits that you can google around to find out.