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What did I deduce from today’s hearing: 1. The weird question/answer format was probably a negotiated condition of Zuckerberg appearing. 2. This underlines the

What did I deduce from today’s hearing: 1. The weird question/answer format was probably a negotiated condition of Zuckerberg appearing. 2. This underlines the power of Zuckerberg: setting conditions for the EU Parliament is quite a show of force. 3. This condition was probably set because Zuckerberg is a very poor spokesperson. The end of the session was quite frankly bizarre when Zuckerberg refused to take questions. 4. There is quite clearly a mood for heavy regulation and anti-trust action to break-up the monopoly. Zuckerberg’s odd behavior will result in the sharpening of EU swords, not their scabbarding. 5. I have no idea what this type of activity will mean for EU/US relations. The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies. The EU must break them before they break Europe. 5.

joejerryronnie 8y ago
The EU, by trying to impose their will on the rest of the world, will see their power slip through their hands. The EU as a political structure is tenuous at best, with too much control being wielded by a few members. All it will take to break up the EU is a better deal extended to a few weaker members. Trump may decide to do this just to watch Europe burn.
zerostar07 8y ago
How can the EU break up foreign monopolies?
- GreeniFi 8y ago
  That’s a really good question. I guess one of the options would be to require social media companies to obtain a licence, subject to their non-monopolistic activities. My guess is that there will be a FB sell-off today. Other countries will see the opportunity to raise a high tax rate on a natural monopoly, and FB returns will be tax-adjusted.
- ianai 8y ago
  There are no sovereign companies. For instance, the NY financial regulations matter so much across the world because a large portion of the financial world’s business is headquartered there. But more so, governments set legal standards. If those standards are not met then products/services are outlawed. I’m pretty sure the EU could simply ban browsing to IPs associated with FB, as an example. I think the largest companies of the world want to believe they operate in some atmosphere above any individual government. But that’s not the case. They operate under the jurisdiction of at least all of the worlds largest governments, contemporaneously.
  - zerostar07 8y ago
    yeah but that's not a break-up
    - ianai 8y ago
      So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.
      - zerostar07 8y ago
        > Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information thats a tad dystopian don't you think?
        vntok 8y ago
        Governments are accountable to their people. Companies are accountable to their shareholders.
        zerostar07 8y ago
        some are
        ianai 8y ago
        No, dystopian is the current situation.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Isn't FB still an Irish corporation? As in, an EU company?
  - zerostar07 8y ago
    yeah but FB can shut that one down if needed and serve europe from the US.
- adventured 8y ago
  They can't. They can attempt to block access to the EU market in a situation where they require a break-up of Facebook and Facebook refuses to comply. It would require the EU to implement a draconian Chinese firewall to bring into full effect. The EU is 250m of Facebook's 2.2 billion users. They could easily drop all EU business if they needed to (the business operations within the EU is the easiest aspect for the EU regulators to target). Their profitability would drop from ~$23 billion for 2018 to $19 billion or so at worst. That'd be made-up for with one year of growth. Once Facebook's business operations in the EU are shut down, Facebook could continue to operate the user accounts and leave it to the EU to attempt to censor what their population is allowed to access online. Watching the EU attempt to install Chinese style repression and censorship to limit what its people can access online, would be quite the comical circus.
  - shakna 8y ago
    If userbase was their only concern, Facebook would likely not have responded to the EU Parliament's request for interview. Facebook is still registered in Ireland, since 2010, which is still in the EU, making Facebook an entity subject to them. (Ireland has also expressed a desire to rejoin the EU, post-Brexit).
    - SeanMacConMara 8y ago
      The sovereign state called "The Republic of Ireland" is not leaving the EU as part of Brexit. The sovereign state called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is leaving the EU as part of Brexit.
      - disgruntledphd2 8y ago
        The sovereign state named Eire, technically.
        SeanMacConMara 8y ago
        baby steps ...
bogomipz 8y ago
>"The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies." I don't believe the US will be "keen" to protect FB if that's in fact what you are stating here. There is just as much concern about FB in the US as there is in the EU, even if the political will to act might be blunted in the US by lobbyists and money. I would argue that FB isn't a "US monopoly" per se but a global monopoly.
- cpeterso 8y ago
  I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action. A bill like the EU's GDPR would not even get a vote in the US congress.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    >"I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action." You might want to re-read my comment where I say there is no political will on account of lobbying and money. US Citizens are just as concerned as EU citizens about FB. Especially given FB's role in the last US Presidential elections. What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens?
    - zerostar07 8y ago
      > What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens? If a significant amount of them cared it would be reflected in the user numbers.
      - bogomipz 8y ago
        And if you had actually looked at those user numbers you would have seen that Europe has far more FB users than the US. Europe has 370 million FB users compared to 239 million in the US: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/

joejerryronnie 8y ago

The EU, by trying to impose their will on the rest of the world, will see their power slip through their hands. The EU as a political structure is tenuous at best, with too much control being wielded by a few members. All it will take to break up the EU is a better deal extended to a few weaker members. Trump may decide to do this just to watch Europe burn.

zerostar07 8y ago

How can the EU break up foreign monopolies?

GreeniFi 8y ago
That’s a really good question. I guess one of the options would be to require social media companies to obtain a licence, subject to their non-monopolistic activities. My guess is that there will be a FB sell-off today. Other countries will see the opportunity to raise a high tax rate on a natural monopoly, and FB returns will be tax-adjusted.
ianai 8y ago
There are no sovereign companies. For instance, the NY financial regulations matter so much across the world because a large portion of the financial world’s business is headquartered there. But more so, governments set legal standards. If those standards are not met then products/services are outlawed. I’m pretty sure the EU could simply ban browsing to IPs associated with FB, as an example. I think the largest companies of the world want to believe they operate in some atmosphere above any individual government. But that’s not the case. They operate under the jurisdiction of at least all of the worlds largest governments, contemporaneously.
- zerostar07 8y ago
  yeah but that's not a break-up
  - ianai 8y ago
    So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.
    - zerostar07 8y ago
      > Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information thats a tad dystopian don't you think?
      - vntok 8y ago
        Governments are accountable to their people. Companies are accountable to their shareholders.
        zerostar07 8y ago
        some are
      - ianai 8y ago
        No, dystopian is the current situation.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
Isn't FB still an Irish corporation? As in, an EU company?
- zerostar07 8y ago
  yeah but FB can shut that one down if needed and serve europe from the US.
adventured 8y ago
They can't. They can attempt to block access to the EU market in a situation where they require a break-up of Facebook and Facebook refuses to comply. It would require the EU to implement a draconian Chinese firewall to bring into full effect. The EU is 250m of Facebook's 2.2 billion users. They could easily drop all EU business if they needed to (the business operations within the EU is the easiest aspect for the EU regulators to target). Their profitability would drop from ~$23 billion for 2018 to $19 billion or so at worst. That'd be made-up for with one year of growth. Once Facebook's business operations in the EU are shut down, Facebook could continue to operate the user accounts and leave it to the EU to attempt to censor what their population is allowed to access online. Watching the EU attempt to install Chinese style repression and censorship to limit what its people can access online, would be quite the comical circus.
- shakna 8y ago
  If userbase was their only concern, Facebook would likely not have responded to the EU Parliament's request for interview. Facebook is still registered in Ireland, since 2010, which is still in the EU, making Facebook an entity subject to them. (Ireland has also expressed a desire to rejoin the EU, post-Brexit).
  - SeanMacConMara 8y ago
    The sovereign state called "The Republic of Ireland" is not leaving the EU as part of Brexit. The sovereign state called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is leaving the EU as part of Brexit.
    - disgruntledphd2 8y ago
      The sovereign state named Eire, technically.
      - SeanMacConMara 8y ago
        baby steps ...

bogomipz 8y ago

>"The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies." I don't believe the US will be "keen" to protect FB if that's in fact what you are stating here. There is just as much concern about FB in the US as there is in the EU, even if the political will to act might be blunted in the US by lobbyists and money. I would argue that FB isn't a "US monopoly" per se but a global monopoly.

cpeterso 8y ago
I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action. A bill like the EU's GDPR would not even get a vote in the US congress.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  >"I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action." You might want to re-read my comment where I say there is no political will on account of lobbying and money. US Citizens are just as concerned as EU citizens about FB. Especially given FB's role in the last US Presidential elections. What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens?
  - zerostar07 8y ago
    > What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens? If a significant amount of them cared it would be reflected in the user numbers.
    - bogomipz 8y ago
      And if you had actually looked at those user numbers you would have seen that Europe has far more FB users than the US. Europe has 370 million FB users compared to 239 million in the US: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/