18 ms·

Facebook CEO speaks to select members of European Parliament

62 points by QueensGambit 8y ago

DavideNL 8y ago
The hearing was a big joke. Zuckerberg simply avoided answering difficult questions by talking about something else entirely...
- serg_chernata 8y ago
  There's a glimmer of hope in my heart, but I stopped caring about these hearings because nothing seems to ever come from them.
- GreeniFi 8y ago
  What did I deduce from today’s hearing: 1. The weird question/answer format was probably a negotiated condition of Zuckerberg appearing. 2. This underlines the power of Zuckerberg: setting conditions for the EU Parliament is quite a show of force. 3. This condition was probably set because Zuckerberg is a very poor spokesperson. The end of the session was quite frankly bizarre when Zuckerberg refused to take questions. 4. There is quite clearly a mood for heavy regulation and anti-trust action to break-up the monopoly. Zuckerberg’s odd behavior will result in the sharpening of EU swords, not their scabbarding. 5. I have no idea what this type of activity will mean for EU/US relations. The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies. The EU must break them before they break Europe. 5.
  - joejerryronnie 8y ago
    The EU, by trying to impose their will on the rest of the world, will see their power slip through their hands. The EU as a political structure is tenuous at best, with too much control being wielded by a few members. All it will take to break up the EU is a better deal extended to a few weaker members. Trump may decide to do this just to watch Europe burn.
  - zerostar07 8y ago
    How can the EU break up foreign monopolies?
    - GreeniFi 8y ago
      That’s a really good question. I guess one of the options would be to require social media companies to obtain a licence, subject to their non-monopolistic activities. My guess is that there will be a FB sell-off today. Other countries will see the opportunity to raise a high tax rate on a natural monopoly, and FB returns will be tax-adjusted.
    - ianai 8y ago
      There are no sovereign companies. For instance, the NY financial regulations matter so much across the world because a large portion of the financial world’s business is headquartered there. But more so, governments set legal standards. If those standards are not met then products/services are outlawed. I’m pretty sure the EU could simply ban browsing to IPs associated with FB, as an example. I think the largest companies of the world want to believe they operate in some atmosphere above any individual government. But that’s not the case. They operate under the jurisdiction of at least all of the worlds largest governments, contemporaneously.
      - zerostar07 8y ago
        yeah but that's not a break-up
        ianai 8y ago
        So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.
        8y ago
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    >"The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies." I don't believe the US will be "keen" to protect FB if that's in fact what you are stating here. There is just as much concern about FB in the US as there is in the EU, even if the political will to act might be blunted in the US by lobbyists and money. I would argue that FB isn't a "US monopoly" per se but a global monopoly.
    - cpeterso 8y ago
      I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action. A bill like the EU's GDPR would not even get a vote in the US congress.
      - bogomipz 8y ago
        >"I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action." You might want to re-read my comment where I say there is no political will on account of lobbying and money. US Citizens are just as concerned as EU citizens about FB. Especially given FB's role in the last US Presidential elections. What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens?
        zerostar07 8y ago
        > What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens? If a significant amount of them cared it would be reflected in the user numbers.
        bogomipz 8y ago
        And if you had actually looked at those user numbers you would have seen that Europe has far more FB users than the US. Europe has 370 million FB users compared to 239 million in the US: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/
- cJ0th 8y ago
  It was frustrating to not get any answers. But actually that tells us everything we need to know.
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    I think you make a good point. I think many people came to the same conclusion after he testified before the Senate in the US. I think it's it quite damaging to dissemble the way he does by moving his mouth without ever answering the question that was asked. And to do this for hour after hour an even in response to simple "yes" or "no" questions is nothing short of a farce. I have to wonder what his employees back in Menlo Park think when they watch their CEO shoveling such obvious bullshit.
    - rjsw 8y ago
      People do keep wondering whether he will run for an elected office, he is just getting in some practice first.
      - cJ0th 8y ago
        He would have to make a quantum leap in his development. If he keeps running scripts to address real people he'll fare at best as good as Hillary Clinton.
- zerostar07 8y ago
  Yeah he made no effort to appease the audience or answer any pointed question. He rushed to leave, while during his US hearings he offered to stay longer a number of times. I think he was agitated by the questions in the end, even though he knows he ll probably face more regulation in europe. It might be the case that he has already discounted that possibility and simply doesn't care if EU wants to ban facebook anymore.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
QueensGambit 8y ago
I have a controversial view, correct me if I am wrong. I think democracy has a major flaw, because, most people are selfish/unfair and most likely vote for populist leaders. But, it has been so far saved by media because of the elitist journalists who want the world to be a fair place and were able to convince people to reject populist leaders. With social media, these journalists are bypassed and the populist leaders are able to appeal to the people's selfish tendencies directly. This is an irreversible change and I expect the world to go backwards by several decades.
- jedberg 8y ago
  It all has to do with education. Educated people are naturally more skeptical of their media and what the sources are. Before social media, it was admitted a lot harder for unreliable sources to get an audience, so that skepticism was less critical. But I think it will come back. Education is the antidote to social media news. Deity willing, the next government will see that and push for better education.
  - bproven 8y ago
    Exactly - also increasing focus on critical thinking skills.
    - mantas 8y ago
      Which may only make them question mainstream media. Hopefully it'd make social media more reliable.
  - bachbach 8y ago
    > Educated people are naturally more skeptical of their media and what the sources are. I have not found that to be the case and I think you should scrutinize that assumption very carefully. Perhaps a majority of intellectuals in the West thought the Soviet Union was a step forward - again and again it's the 'smart' people who get the big things wrong.
    - 8y ago
textmode 8y ago
"Guy Verhofstadt, who leads the Liberal ALDE group, says the activity of fictional social media company the Circle in a 2014 novel seems "very near to the reality" of Facebook's role today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(2017_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(2017_film) "German Christian democrat MEP Manfred Weber, who leads the centre-right EPP group, ... asks Mark Zuckerberg why the company has not stopped access to user data to all developers, not just Cambridge Analytica. He says he would be interested in his arguments as to why, given Facebook's power, its algorithms should not be made public. He also asks Mr Zuckerberg to name a competitor it has in Europe, and asks him to "convince him" with arguments as to why his company is not a monopoly that should be broken up." On issues raised relating to competition, [Zuckerberg] says that communication is a "competitive space" where people have "many choices". "It feels like there are new competitors coming up every day," he notes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44210723 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44210...
- gaius 8y ago
  t feels like there are new competitors coming up every day Such as Instagram and WhatsApp? It's not competition if you just buy them up as soon as they start to compete...
Hasknewbie 8y ago
One more prestigious date to add to the 14-years long (and counting) "Zuckerberg Magic Apology Tour". Quite the show. (For reference: https://www.wired.com/story/why-zuckerberg-15-year-apology-tour-hasnt-fixed-facebook/ https://www.wired.com/story/why-zuckerberg-15-year-apology-t...)
- stingraycharles 8y ago
  I liked how Guy Verhofstadt called him out on that, that he has apologised 15 or 16 times in the past years. I’m annoyed that I cannot vote for the guy for EP elections because he lives in another country, one of the many weird things about EU politics, but this man deserves a medal.
  - netsharc 8y ago
    If you read (and believe) Yanis Varoufakis' book "Adults in the Room", he's a part of the group of assholes who was determined to bend Greece to their will, mainly that "austerity will work!", never mind the economic squeeze means hungry, homeless people and the rise of suicides. Currently I love how the EU is making the British Brexit team look like a bunch of clowns, but the EU is no saintly organization, the way they couldn't let go of austerity politics made a lot of people suffer, and has indeed lead to the rise of populism as well (the right wing in France, Germany, and populism in Italy).
    - danmaz74 8y ago
      Verhovstad is just one mep, you can like him or not (i do on some issues, not other ones) but he isn't in any way "the eu" :)
schadom 8y ago
there he goes https://www.flightradar24.com/C56X/11772b7f https://www.flightradar24.com/C56X/11772b7f
- whitepoplar 8y ago
  cool! how'd you associate zuck to the jet?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- rosstex 8y ago
  Can we make this a livestream with music?
- cft 8y ago
  Landing in Barcelona
  - schadom 8y ago
    some partying maybe
    - dingaling 8y ago
      Don't draw too many conclusions from movements of that Citation XLS; I don't have the reg but it's probably a NetJets aircraft on hire. Mr Zuckerberg's own private jet is a Gulfstream V which unlike the XLS is transatlantic capable.
KenanSulayman 8y ago
I was very surprised and suddenly pulled back into a feeling of tangible hope when around the end of the plenary session a French / Belgian member of the parliament went mad about unanswered questions. He said: " ... There are a number of questions that have been put by other colleagues that I want an answer to. That said, I'm anxious about this brave new world that Mr. Zuckerberg has presented us -- a brave new world what tens and tens and tens of thousands of private people are scrutinizing us and are saying “what is fake news” and “what is not fake news”, “what is hate speech” and “what is not hate speech”. Don't you think that this is a public task?" He very subtly mentioned that the anti-trust bodies could mobilized to look into this if questions wouldn't be answered [1] -- https://youtu.be/bVoE_rb5g5k?t=5285 https://youtu.be/bVoE_rb5g5k?t=5285. [1] "... And competition for example: an anti-trust thing, that's important! Do we need -- I think we're gonna push our anti trust agency to go into this if there is no good answer to!" --- Here's an interview with Guy Verhofstadt (thanks, repolfx! I wasn't aware of who he is): https://www.channel4.com/news/guy-verhofstadt-mep-on-mark-zuckerberg-i-doubt-he-will-apply-new-data-privacy-rules https://www.channel4.com/news/guy-verhofstadt-mep-on-mark-zu...
- repolfx 8y ago
  That's Verhofstadt, the head of the EU Parliament. I don't know what gave you hope about that. It's mafia tactics and confirms the worst suspicions people have had about EU anti-trust enforcement. What does privacy rules have to do with monopoly or anti-trust? As far as I can tell, nothing. But the EU appears dangerously close to taking an official policy that anti-trust fines are based on whether Guy Verhofstadt and his friends personally like your answers at unrelated hearings. Make Guy happy or you'll be inconveniently re-classified as a monopoly. Never mind the existence of LinkedIn or Google+ or other competing networks.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - padthai 8y ago
    The EU Parliament President is Antonio Tajani. Verhofstadt is just a regular MEP, though he is also chair of an European party that commands 7-8% of the MEPs.

62 points by QueensGambit 8y ago

The hearing was a big joke. Zuckerberg simply avoided answering difficult questions by talking about something else entirely...

serg_chernata 8y ago
There's a glimmer of hope in my heart, but I stopped caring about these hearings because nothing seems to ever come from them.
GreeniFi 8y ago
What did I deduce from today’s hearing: 1. The weird question/answer format was probably a negotiated condition of Zuckerberg appearing. 2. This underlines the power of Zuckerberg: setting conditions for the EU Parliament is quite a show of force. 3. This condition was probably set because Zuckerberg is a very poor spokesperson. The end of the session was quite frankly bizarre when Zuckerberg refused to take questions. 4. There is quite clearly a mood for heavy regulation and anti-trust action to break-up the monopoly. Zuckerberg’s odd behavior will result in the sharpening of EU swords, not their scabbarding. 5. I have no idea what this type of activity will mean for EU/US relations. The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies. The EU must break them before they break Europe. 5.
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  The EU, by trying to impose their will on the rest of the world, will see their power slip through their hands. The EU as a political structure is tenuous at best, with too much control being wielded by a few members. All it will take to break up the EU is a better deal extended to a few weaker members. Trump may decide to do this just to watch Europe burn.
- zerostar07 8y ago
  How can the EU break up foreign monopolies?
  - GreeniFi 8y ago
    That’s a really good question. I guess one of the options would be to require social media companies to obtain a licence, subject to their non-monopolistic activities. My guess is that there will be a FB sell-off today. Other countries will see the opportunity to raise a high tax rate on a natural monopoly, and FB returns will be tax-adjusted.
  - ianai 8y ago
    There are no sovereign companies. For instance, the NY financial regulations matter so much across the world because a large portion of the financial world’s business is headquartered there. But more so, governments set legal standards. If those standards are not met then products/services are outlawed. I’m pretty sure the EU could simply ban browsing to IPs associated with FB, as an example. I think the largest companies of the world want to believe they operate in some atmosphere above any individual government. But that’s not the case. They operate under the jurisdiction of at least all of the worlds largest governments, contemporaneously.
    - zerostar07 8y ago
      yeah but that's not a break-up
      - ianai 8y ago
        So they declare ownership over all FB assets in their nation and the data of their citizens. Really though, I think maybe the act of combining data to form contiguous blocks of PII tied to online personas may need to be made illegal outside of some official, state database. Ie the government gives you a citizen entry and only they may produce such information. So you simply may not have access to certain PII.
        8y ago
- bogomipz 8y ago
  >"The US will be keen to protect homegrown global monopolies." I don't believe the US will be "keen" to protect FB if that's in fact what you are stating here. There is just as much concern about FB in the US as there is in the EU, even if the political will to act might be blunted in the US by lobbyists and money. I would argue that FB isn't a "US monopoly" per se but a global monopoly.
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action. A bill like the EU's GDPR would not even get a vote in the US congress.
    - bogomipz 8y ago
      >"I doubt many US politicians or citizens are concerned enough about Facebook to take any meaningful action." You might want to re-read my comment where I say there is no political will on account of lobbying and money. US Citizens are just as concerned as EU citizens about FB. Especially given FB's role in the last US Presidential elections. What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens?
      - zerostar07 8y ago
        > What is your justification for asserting that US citizens are not as concerned as EU citizens? If a significant amount of them cared it would be reflected in the user numbers.
        bogomipz 8y ago
        And if you had actually looked at those user numbers you would have seen that Europe has far more FB users than the US. Europe has 370 million FB users compared to 239 million in the US: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/facebook-q4-2017-earnings/
cJ0th 8y ago
It was frustrating to not get any answers. But actually that tells us everything we need to know.
- bogomipz 8y ago
  I think you make a good point. I think many people came to the same conclusion after he testified before the Senate in the US. I think it's it quite damaging to dissemble the way he does by moving his mouth without ever answering the question that was asked. And to do this for hour after hour an even in response to simple "yes" or "no" questions is nothing short of a farce. I have to wonder what his employees back in Menlo Park think when they watch their CEO shoveling such obvious bullshit.
  - rjsw 8y ago
    People do keep wondering whether he will run for an elected office, he is just getting in some practice first.
    - cJ0th 8y ago
      He would have to make a quantum leap in his development. If he keeps running scripts to address real people he'll fare at best as good as Hillary Clinton.
zerostar07 8y ago
Yeah he made no effort to appease the audience or answer any pointed question. He rushed to leave, while during his US hearings he offered to stay longer a number of times. I think he was agitated by the questions in the end, even though he knows he ll probably face more regulation in europe. It might be the case that he has already discounted that possibility and simply doesn't care if EU wants to ban facebook anymore.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

QueensGambit 8y ago

I have a controversial view, correct me if I am wrong. I think democracy has a major flaw, because, most people are selfish/unfair and most likely vote for populist leaders. But, it has been so far saved by media because of the elitist journalists who want the world to be a fair place and were able to convince people to reject populist leaders. With social media, these journalists are bypassed and the populist leaders are able to appeal to the people's selfish tendencies directly. This is an irreversible change and I expect the world to go backwards by several decades.

jedberg 8y ago
It all has to do with education. Educated people are naturally more skeptical of their media and what the sources are. Before social media, it was admitted a lot harder for unreliable sources to get an audience, so that skepticism was less critical. But I think it will come back. Education is the antidote to social media news. Deity willing, the next government will see that and push for better education.
- bproven 8y ago
  Exactly - also increasing focus on critical thinking skills.
  - mantas 8y ago
    Which may only make them question mainstream media. Hopefully it'd make social media more reliable.
- bachbach 8y ago
  > Educated people are naturally more skeptical of their media and what the sources are. I have not found that to be the case and I think you should scrutinize that assumption very carefully. Perhaps a majority of intellectuals in the West thought the Soviet Union was a step forward - again and again it's the 'smart' people who get the big things wrong.
  - 8y ago

textmode 8y ago

"Guy Verhofstadt, who leads the Liberal ALDE group, says the activity of fictional social media company the Circle in a 2014 novel seems "very near to the reality" of Facebook's role today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(2017_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(2017_film) "German Christian democrat MEP Manfred Weber, who leads the centre-right EPP group, ... asks Mark Zuckerberg why the company has not stopped access to user data to all developers, not just Cambridge Analytica. He says he would be interested in his arguments as to why, given Facebook's power, its algorithms should not be made public. He also asks Mr Zuckerberg to name a competitor it has in Europe, and asks him to "convince him" with arguments as to why his company is not a monopoly that should be broken up." On issues raised relating to competition, [Zuckerberg] says that communication is a "competitive space" where people have "many choices". "It feels like there are new competitors coming up every day," he notes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44210723 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44210...

gaius 8y ago
t feels like there are new competitors coming up every day Such as Instagram and WhatsApp? It's not competition if you just buy them up as soon as they start to compete...

Hasknewbie 8y ago

One more prestigious date to add to the 14-years long (and counting) "Zuckerberg Magic Apology Tour". Quite the show. (For reference: https://www.wired.com/story/why-zuckerberg-15-year-apology-tour-hasnt-fixed-facebook/ https://www.wired.com/story/why-zuckerberg-15-year-apology-t...)

stingraycharles 8y ago
I liked how Guy Verhofstadt called him out on that, that he has apologised 15 or 16 times in the past years. I’m annoyed that I cannot vote for the guy for EP elections because he lives in another country, one of the many weird things about EU politics, but this man deserves a medal.
- netsharc 8y ago
  If you read (and believe) Yanis Varoufakis' book "Adults in the Room", he's a part of the group of assholes who was determined to bend Greece to their will, mainly that "austerity will work!", never mind the economic squeeze means hungry, homeless people and the rise of suicides. Currently I love how the EU is making the British Brexit team look like a bunch of clowns, but the EU is no saintly organization, the way they couldn't let go of austerity politics made a lot of people suffer, and has indeed lead to the rise of populism as well (the right wing in France, Germany, and populism in Italy).
  - danmaz74 8y ago
    Verhovstad is just one mep, you can like him or not (i do on some issues, not other ones) but he isn't in any way "the eu" :)

schadom 8y ago

there he goes https://www.flightradar24.com/C56X/11772b7f https://www.flightradar24.com/C56X/11772b7f

whitepoplar 8y ago
cool! how'd you associate zuck to the jet?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
rosstex 8y ago
Can we make this a livestream with music?
cft 8y ago
Landing in Barcelona
- schadom 8y ago
  some partying maybe
  - dingaling 8y ago
    Don't draw too many conclusions from movements of that Citation XLS; I don't have the reg but it's probably a NetJets aircraft on hire. Mr Zuckerberg's own private jet is a Gulfstream V which unlike the XLS is transatlantic capable.

KenanSulayman 8y ago

I was very surprised and suddenly pulled back into a feeling of tangible hope when around the end of the plenary session a French / Belgian member of the parliament went mad about unanswered questions. He said: " ... There are a number of questions that have been put by other colleagues that I want an answer to. That said, I'm anxious about this brave new world that Mr. Zuckerberg has presented us -- a brave new world what tens and tens and tens of thousands of private people are scrutinizing us and are saying “what is fake news” and “what is not fake news”, “what is hate speech” and “what is not hate speech”. Don't you think that this is a public task?" He very subtly mentioned that the anti-trust bodies could mobilized to look into this if questions wouldn't be answered [1] -- https://youtu.be/bVoE_rb5g5k?t=5285 https://youtu.be/bVoE_rb5g5k?t=5285. [1] "... And competition for example: an anti-trust thing, that's important! Do we need -- I think we're gonna push our anti trust agency to go into this if there is no good answer to!" --- Here's an interview with Guy Verhofstadt (thanks, repolfx! I wasn't aware of who he is): https://www.channel4.com/news/guy-verhofstadt-mep-on-mark-zuckerberg-i-doubt-he-will-apply-new-data-privacy-rules https://www.channel4.com/news/guy-verhofstadt-mep-on-mark-zu...

repolfx 8y ago
That's Verhofstadt, the head of the EU Parliament. I don't know what gave you hope about that. It's mafia tactics and confirms the worst suspicions people have had about EU anti-trust enforcement. What does privacy rules have to do with monopoly or anti-trust? As far as I can tell, nothing. But the EU appears dangerously close to taking an official policy that anti-trust fines are based on whether Guy Verhofstadt and his friends personally like your answers at unrelated hearings. Make Guy happy or you'll be inconveniently re-classified as a monopoly. Never mind the existence of LinkedIn or Google+ or other competing networks.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- padthai 8y ago
  The EU Parliament President is Antonio Tajani. Verhofstadt is just a regular MEP, though he is also chair of an European party that commands 7-8% of the MEPs.