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The theater chains await MoviePass' demise so they can announce their revolutionary chain-specific Pass for just $30/month. - Conditions apply. No more than o

by arbie 8y ago

The theater chains await MoviePass' demise so they can announce their revolutionary chain-specific Pass for just $30/month. - Conditions apply. No more than one movie per calendar week. Surcharges applicable for IMAX, 3D, and other premium features. Opening nights and weekends excluded. Blackout dates apply.

batiudrami 8y ago
It doesn't need to be that restrictive. Just a couple of dollars more than a one standard deviation consumer's monthly spend (or whatever they settle on). The unit cost of one person in a cinema is normally negligible after all, so a specific cinema just need to convince members to spend a little more, and to always spend it at their cinema. Moviepass does neither of these things. This is definitely a model which can work for cinemas. Just not at this price point and business model.
- jchw 8y ago
  Here's the problem, or at least part of it; executives don't usually give a damn what the most reasonable option is. This comes across their desk and they want to know how much they can get away with. It may not need to be that restrictive, sure... but the question they're looking at is how restrictive it can be while still netting a profit. The other problem is that I think the cost of someone using a subscription service will be higher than the average moviegoer, simply because going to the movies often is cost prohibitive for a lot of people.
  - batiudrami 8y ago
    Sure but if cinemas aren't full (and they rarely are except for opening weekend) the actual cost of having someone in the theatre is nothing. If the target customer sees 2 movies @$12 each a month it doesn't matter if they see 10 at $30 total as long as they aren't filling the cinema - the cinema is still making $6 more off them, plus any snacks they buy. Maybe it's a matter of just not allowing subscription passes for opening weekend (or only at the door if it's undersold rather than in advance). Maybe you get your seat allocated at ticket pick up rather than in advance so full-fare paying customers get the best seats. There's obviously going to be a compromise somewhere, but it doesn't have to be unworkable.
    - mjmahone17 8y ago
      Do theaters pay studios per showing or per ticket sold? If it’s per ticket sold, then monthly passes could be cost prohibitive for theaters: they would end up eating the cost of people going to 5 movies in a week, while owing the studios more. If they pay per showing, then monthly subscriptions with caveats like “only 30 seats for monthly passes available, until an hour before the show, when all seats become available” could make sense.
      - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
        > Do theaters pay studios per showing or per ticket sold? Percentage of revenue, i.e. per ticket sold [1]. That said, the studios' take rates vary "as you move into the second and third weeks of release," when "the percentage starts to swing to" a greater take rate for the cinema. A movie pass which blacks out the first N weeks after release could thus be economical (if something the studios would fight tooth and nail).
        erik_seaberg 8y ago
        There are some super shady deals here. If you want to be able to show $BLOCKBUSTER, you might have to agree to pay for a minimum of N seats/day of showings of $UTTER_CRAP. If nobody shows up, the studio still gets paid, and of course the stars of $BLOCKBUSTER don't see a cent of that money.
        Retric 8y ago
        There is nothing long term about these contracts. Movie studios can change the deal at any time and theaters have almost zero leverage.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
I recently signed up for Cinemark movie pass for $8.99 a month. What's amazing is that their commercial[1] seems to strongly suggest the tickets are a discount. It never explicitly says so. It's hilarious because a weekend evening ticket is $7.75 a ticket, and if I buy an IMAX ticket, the "premium upcharge" is exactly $1.76, the price needed to cost the exact same as a normal IMAX ticket ($10.75). The only reason it makes sense for me to get it is how often I buy several IMAX tickets online, and there's a $1.50 per ticket in "online fees" they waive for movie club members. There was a cost neutral way to avoid online fees before, but they removed it when they launched this to push signups. I visit the theater enough that it makes sense to do this, but it's sole benefit to me is removing penalties... not gaining any sort of positive discount. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfdw2XgPXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfdw2XgPXs
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I recently signed up for Cinemark movie pass for $8.99 a month. What's amazing is that their commercial seems to strongly suggest the tickets are a discount. It never explicitly says so. They probably are in high-cost urban markets which probably account for a large share of their volume. > It's hilarious because a weekend evening ticket is $7.75 a ticket, My local Cinemarks' prices for weekend evening tickets for standard-format 2D (they don't have IMAX, but do have XD at an upcharge) range from $11.75-$12.75.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    But even then... why sell a plan providing me no discount? Shouldn't I get the same discount others would off their tickets? It's strange to hear there are places Cinemark has significantly higher prices: I live in a fairly affluent suburban area, my Cinemark is literally around the corner from a significant number of multi-million dollar properties. Anyone who sees movies near me can arguably afford the higher ticket prices. But thanks for the non-local perspective on the matter!
    - rohandhruva 8y ago
      To add to what dragonwriter said, weekend evening tickets at my local Cinemark theatre is $14.50 for a 2D movie in its first or second week.
sytelus 8y ago
This is one of the reasons of why traditional businesses are failure in driving disruption. They simply don't get statistics and long tail.
- Simon_says 8y ago
  I guess technically the end hasn't been written yet, but doesn't the fate of MoviePass validate your Kellogg MBA's fears?
  - sytelus 8y ago
    MoviePass is just an experiment. An important thing they have proved is that there are a lot of people still interested in going to theater and reason they are not doing so is because of lack of flexibility in current business model. I don't see any theater chain learning from this even while they are still going on the same path as RadioShack and Blockbuster. I think eventually MoviePass or some other startup will come around and they will start their own popup-theaters to implement business model such as this.
    - deadmetheny 8y ago
      >MoviePass is just an experiment People will go to a lot of movies if you make them free while burning through VC money? Holy shit what a scoop!
- psergeant 8y ago
  > A CEO of tech company I worry we are approaching peak hubris
hkmurakami 8y ago
The thing is that ski season passes are like this and people love them.
arrrg 8y ago
Would you consider $30/month to be a lot? I pay €23.40/month (about $27.50/month) to be able to watch as many movies as I want in all German UCI cinemas. There are no limitations (I think our record is watching five movies in a day) or surcharges. (I think some select newly renovated or built cinemas do take surcharges for certain special seats or cinemas, but I’m not affected in the city I am in.) That’s definitely worth it for me, considering that I watch a couple hundred movies per year in the cinema. (You need about 3-4 movies/month to easily get above the €23.40.) The other big chain chain cinema in the city (cinemaxx) offers a similar flat rate (but at a higher price) and this flat rate hasn’t been in place forever, but for at least a couple of years. I would have assumed that you can get something similar everywhere and if not, why not?
- fyfy18 8y ago
  I had the same at Cineworld in Ireland a few years ago. I think at the time I was paying ~€15/mo and a single ticket was €8. At the time there were a few restrictions, you needed to pay more for 3D or IMAX, and you had to collect tickets from the counter. This last part meant going at peak times was discouraged (as you needed to queue and weren’t guaranteed a ticket), so I usually went at off peak times when the cinema was usually empty.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    This certainly seems like a way for cinemas to drive up utilization. If my local Cinema (incidentally Cineworld) offered it I would seriously consider going there more often.
    - angle_eyes 8y ago
      Is this not the same thing? https://www.cineworld.co.uk/unlimited https://www.cineworld.co.uk/unlimited For reference, at my local Cineworld in Greenwich, 17.90 is less than the cost of two adult tickets.
      - solarkraft 8y ago
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> so they can announce their revolutionary chain-specific Pass for just $30/month I know film buffs who would grab this deal in a heartbeat. The cinemas would win, too, by turning brand-indifferent customers into loyal ones (without having to invest in reclining seats or liquor licenses).
ocfx 8y ago
One movie per week makes it not worth it. It's only marginally better than buying 4 tickets individually a month but requires the the upkeep of a subscription that you may not use on a regular basis. Nobody will go for one movie a week for 30 a month.

by arbie 8y ago

batiudrami 8y ago

It doesn't need to be that restrictive. Just a couple of dollars more than a one standard deviation consumer's monthly spend (or whatever they settle on). The unit cost of one person in a cinema is normally negligible after all, so a specific cinema just need to convince members to spend a little more, and to always spend it at their cinema. Moviepass does neither of these things. This is definitely a model which can work for cinemas. Just not at this price point and business model.

jchw 8y ago
Here's the problem, or at least part of it; executives don't usually give a damn what the most reasonable option is. This comes across their desk and they want to know how much they can get away with. It may not need to be that restrictive, sure... but the question they're looking at is how restrictive it can be while still netting a profit. The other problem is that I think the cost of someone using a subscription service will be higher than the average moviegoer, simply because going to the movies often is cost prohibitive for a lot of people.
- batiudrami 8y ago
  Sure but if cinemas aren't full (and they rarely are except for opening weekend) the actual cost of having someone in the theatre is nothing. If the target customer sees 2 movies @$12 each a month it doesn't matter if they see 10 at $30 total as long as they aren't filling the cinema - the cinema is still making $6 more off them, plus any snacks they buy. Maybe it's a matter of just not allowing subscription passes for opening weekend (or only at the door if it's undersold rather than in advance). Maybe you get your seat allocated at ticket pick up rather than in advance so full-fare paying customers get the best seats. There's obviously going to be a compromise somewhere, but it doesn't have to be unworkable.
  - mjmahone17 8y ago
    Do theaters pay studios per showing or per ticket sold? If it’s per ticket sold, then monthly passes could be cost prohibitive for theaters: they would end up eating the cost of people going to 5 movies in a week, while owing the studios more. If they pay per showing, then monthly subscriptions with caveats like “only 30 seats for monthly passes available, until an hour before the show, when all seats become available” could make sense.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > Do theaters pay studios per showing or per ticket sold? Percentage of revenue, i.e. per ticket sold [1]. That said, the studios' take rates vary "as you move into the second and third weeks of release," when "the percentage starts to swing to" a greater take rate for the cinema. A movie pass which blacks out the first N weeks after release could thus be economical (if something the studios would fight tooth and nail).
      - erik_seaberg 8y ago
        There are some super shady deals here. If you want to be able to show $BLOCKBUSTER, you might have to agree to pay for a minimum of N seats/day of showings of $UTTER_CRAP. If nobody shows up, the studio still gets paid, and of course the stars of $BLOCKBUSTER don't see a cent of that money.
      - Retric 8y ago
        There is nothing long term about these contracts. Movie studios can change the deal at any time and theaters have almost zero leverage.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

I recently signed up for Cinemark movie pass for $8.99 a month. What's amazing is that their commercial[1] seems to strongly suggest the tickets are a discount. It never explicitly says so. It's hilarious because a weekend evening ticket is $7.75 a ticket, and if I buy an IMAX ticket, the "premium upcharge" is exactly $1.76, the price needed to cost the exact same as a normal IMAX ticket ($10.75). The only reason it makes sense for me to get it is how often I buy several IMAX tickets online, and there's a $1.50 per ticket in "online fees" they waive for movie club members. There was a cost neutral way to avoid online fees before, but they removed it when they launched this to push signups. I visit the theater enough that it makes sense to do this, but it's sole benefit to me is removing penalties... not gaining any sort of positive discount. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfdw2XgPXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIfdw2XgPXs

dragonwriter 8y ago
> I recently signed up for Cinemark movie pass for $8.99 a month. What's amazing is that their commercial seems to strongly suggest the tickets are a discount. It never explicitly says so. They probably are in high-cost urban markets which probably account for a large share of their volume. > It's hilarious because a weekend evening ticket is $7.75 a ticket, My local Cinemarks' prices for weekend evening tickets for standard-format 2D (they don't have IMAX, but do have XD at an upcharge) range from $11.75-$12.75.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  But even then... why sell a plan providing me no discount? Shouldn't I get the same discount others would off their tickets? It's strange to hear there are places Cinemark has significantly higher prices: I live in a fairly affluent suburban area, my Cinemark is literally around the corner from a significant number of multi-million dollar properties. Anyone who sees movies near me can arguably afford the higher ticket prices. But thanks for the non-local perspective on the matter!
  - rohandhruva 8y ago
    To add to what dragonwriter said, weekend evening tickets at my local Cinemark theatre is $14.50 for a 2D movie in its first or second week.

sytelus 8y ago

This is one of the reasons of why traditional businesses are failure in driving disruption. They simply don't get statistics and long tail.

Simon_says 8y ago
I guess technically the end hasn't been written yet, but doesn't the fate of MoviePass validate your Kellogg MBA's fears?
- sytelus 8y ago
  MoviePass is just an experiment. An important thing they have proved is that there are a lot of people still interested in going to theater and reason they are not doing so is because of lack of flexibility in current business model. I don't see any theater chain learning from this even while they are still going on the same path as RadioShack and Blockbuster. I think eventually MoviePass or some other startup will come around and they will start their own popup-theaters to implement business model such as this.
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    >MoviePass is just an experiment People will go to a lot of movies if you make them free while burning through VC money? Holy shit what a scoop!
psergeant 8y ago
> A CEO of tech company I worry we are approaching peak hubris

hkmurakami 8y ago

The thing is that ski season passes are like this and people love them.

arrrg 8y ago

Would you consider $30/month to be a lot? I pay €23.40/month (about $27.50/month) to be able to watch as many movies as I want in all German UCI cinemas. There are no limitations (I think our record is watching five movies in a day) or surcharges. (I think some select newly renovated or built cinemas do take surcharges for certain special seats or cinemas, but I’m not affected in the city I am in.) That’s definitely worth it for me, considering that I watch a couple hundred movies per year in the cinema. (You need about 3-4 movies/month to easily get above the €23.40.) The other big chain chain cinema in the city (cinemaxx) offers a similar flat rate (but at a higher price) and this flat rate hasn’t been in place forever, but for at least a couple of years. I would have assumed that you can get something similar everywhere and if not, why not?

fyfy18 8y ago
I had the same at Cineworld in Ireland a few years ago. I think at the time I was paying ~€15/mo and a single ticket was €8. At the time there were a few restrictions, you needed to pay more for 3D or IMAX, and you had to collect tickets from the counter. This last part meant going at peak times was discouraged (as you needed to queue and weren’t guaranteed a ticket), so I usually went at off peak times when the cinema was usually empty.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  This certainly seems like a way for cinemas to drive up utilization. If my local Cinema (incidentally Cineworld) offered it I would seriously consider going there more often.
  - angle_eyes 8y ago
    Is this not the same thing? https://www.cineworld.co.uk/unlimited https://www.cineworld.co.uk/unlimited For reference, at my local Cineworld in Greenwich, 17.90 is less than the cost of two adult tickets.
    - solarkraft 8y ago

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> so they can announce their revolutionary chain-specific Pass for just $30/month I know film buffs who would grab this deal in a heartbeat. The cinemas would win, too, by turning brand-indifferent customers into loyal ones (without having to invest in reclining seats or liquor licenses).

ocfx 8y ago

One movie per week makes it not worth it. It's only marginally better than buying 4 tickets individually a month but requires the the upkeep of a subscription that you may not use on a regular basis. Nobody will go for one movie a week for 30 a month.