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Related article, "Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them" [0], and discussion [1] from 45d ago. [0]: https://arstechnica.c

Related article, "Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them" [0], and discussion [1] from 45d ago. [0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/dhs-to-senator-malicious-use-of-stingrays-is-a-real-and-growing-risk/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/dhs-to-senator-m... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16748971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16748971

madengr 8y ago
Not knowing how to find them, is a load of crap. You can certainly find them, it just takes expensive equipment and time.
- SSLy 8y ago
  or just asking the cell towers providers for list of genuine hardware, and then cross-checking that against triangulated antennas.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  If it were me, the antenna would be a few hundred feet away from the equipment. And the antenna wouldn’t be anything like an antenna, just something that looks like a lawn-chair. And I’d move it every day or two. And definitely not run it 24h!!! Could still be found, but good luck.
  - exikyut 8y ago
    Hmm, then you need a super-mega-amplifier tacked on to boost the signal over the cable (AFAIK, the frequencies used really like short antenna runs). So that then means a super-thick faraday cage around the actual device, and probably somewhat noteworthy power consumption (a battery certainly wouldn't be enough).
    - coolspot 8y ago
      Probably meant transmitter (antennae + encoder/decoder) separated from actual BTS hardware & operatives. So after counter-side finds your camouflaged BTS, it is only disposable and relatively cheap part and doesn’t lead to whole operation uncover. That probe part then would connect to starbucks wi-fi and interact with BTS software somewhere far from physical location, so you can’t quickly trace channel between probe and spy team.
      - exikyut 8y ago
        Doh. I see, of course. Yeah, I'd gotten it in my head the BTS (TXCO) and the probe equipment needed to be super close together...
joe_the_user 8y ago
My guess would be that the situation isn't that they can't find the stringrays but that they can't distinguish between "hostile" and "friendly" stringrays. After all, each agency deploying such devices does so as secretly as possible, naturally not alerting other agencies, and so there's no list of friendly stingrays.
- askvictor 8y ago
  Probably, they don't want to find them.
- mayamatrix 8y ago
  It's all very Kim Stanley Robinsonesque in his climate-change trilogy where there are so many US Shadow agencies that they are constantly getting in each other's way.
  - taf2 8y ago
    Or just your typical Russian, Chinese spy operations...
    - steve_musk 8y ago
      Especially considering the POTUS uses a standard android phone.
      - mdesq 8y ago
        I believe he switched to an iPhone. [1] I was at an analytics event this year where they were analyzing his tweets based on the originating platform. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-switches-apple-iphone-from-unsecure-android-2017-3 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/donald-...
        Taniwha 8y ago
        I'm more under the impression that there are several people who tweet using that account (you'll remember one of his lawyers claiming they did one time he really screwed up) using different platforms

madengr 8y ago

Not knowing how to find them, is a load of crap. You can certainly find them, it just takes expensive equipment and time.

SSLy 8y ago
or just asking the cell towers providers for list of genuine hardware, and then cross-checking that against triangulated antennas.
Scoundreller 8y ago
If it were me, the antenna would be a few hundred feet away from the equipment. And the antenna wouldn’t be anything like an antenna, just something that looks like a lawn-chair. And I’d move it every day or two. And definitely not run it 24h!!! Could still be found, but good luck.
- exikyut 8y ago
  Hmm, then you need a super-mega-amplifier tacked on to boost the signal over the cable (AFAIK, the frequencies used really like short antenna runs). So that then means a super-thick faraday cage around the actual device, and probably somewhat noteworthy power consumption (a battery certainly wouldn't be enough).
  - coolspot 8y ago
    Probably meant transmitter (antennae + encoder/decoder) separated from actual BTS hardware & operatives. So after counter-side finds your camouflaged BTS, it is only disposable and relatively cheap part and doesn’t lead to whole operation uncover. That probe part then would connect to starbucks wi-fi and interact with BTS software somewhere far from physical location, so you can’t quickly trace channel between probe and spy team.
    - exikyut 8y ago
      Doh. I see, of course. Yeah, I'd gotten it in my head the BTS (TXCO) and the probe equipment needed to be super close together...

joe_the_user 8y ago

My guess would be that the situation isn't that they can't find the stringrays but that they can't distinguish between "hostile" and "friendly" stringrays. After all, each agency deploying such devices does so as secretly as possible, naturally not alerting other agencies, and so there's no list of friendly stingrays.

askvictor 8y ago
Probably, they don't want to find them.
mayamatrix 8y ago
It's all very Kim Stanley Robinsonesque in his climate-change trilogy where there are so many US Shadow agencies that they are constantly getting in each other's way.
- taf2 8y ago
  Or just your typical Russian, Chinese spy operations...
  - steve_musk 8y ago
    Especially considering the POTUS uses a standard android phone.
    - mdesq 8y ago
      I believe he switched to an iPhone. [1] I was at an analytics event this year where they were analyzing his tweets based on the originating platform. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-switches-apple-iphone-from-unsecure-android-2017-3 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/donald-...
      - Taniwha 8y ago
        I'm more under the impression that there are several people who tweet using that account (you'll remember one of his lawyers claiming they did one time he really screwed up) using different platforms