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Jails are replacing visits with video calls–inmates and families hate it
- staticelf 9y agoFrom a nordic european perspective the very idea of privitized jail is a bit too much. Like, really? This article makes me think about and why I will never leave the north: http://www.businessinsider.com/an-american-warden-visited-a-norwegian-prison--and-he-couldnt-believe-what-he-saw-2014-10?op=1&r=US&IR=T&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/an-american-warden-visited-a-...
- eli 9y agoPretty sure the jail in the article is run by the county and is not privatized. Private prisons are bad and I'm categorically against them, but US public run jails are overwhelmingly more common and they aren't so great either.
- vijaybritto 9y agoHow are the US even complaining about human rights violations when so many serious ones happen right at home?! It's appalling to see all this
- josefresco 9y agoHuman rights violations are wrong 100% of the time. Whataboutism doesn't change that.
- barrkel 9y agoJudge not, that ye be not judged. First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Criticism is a lot more effective when it's not hypocritical.
- sykh 9y agoYou both have a point. All societies that are sufficiently large have quirks and contradictions. You can find inequities and injustices in every country that is large enough. But people should still be free to criticize policies of other countries. Of course, when the hypocrisy is too great said criticisms falls on deaf ears. Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere.
- josefresco 9y ago> Let us strive to be less hypocritical but still vigilant in pointing out human rights violations elsewhere. This is better put. Hypocrisy should not blind us all.
- eeZah7Ux 9y agoThe truthfulness of a statement (criticism, praise or anything else) is not invalidated by the behavior of the speaker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque "Tu quoque or the appeal to hypocrisy is an informal logical fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s)."
- magduf 9y agoYou're talking about a logical fallacy. That doesn't carry much weight in the court of public opinion, where you're trying to actually convince someone of something. If the person doing the arguing is a complete hypocrite, it's pretty normal for others to not even bother listening to the argument. If you want to sway opinions, you need to have an advocate that people will believe.
- wool_gather 9y agoParent is not whataboutism: it wasn't excusing other instances. It's a simple accusation of hypocrisy.
- josefresco 9y agoKissing cousins.
- strathmeyer 9y agoSo you're saying... Americans should be pretty good at complaining about human rights violations??
- kalleboo 9y agoTakes one to know one?
- vinay427 9y agoThere are also Americans complaining about these violations within the US. The more well-known include Guantanamo Bay, undocumented immigrants rights, and private prison abuses. The diplomatic arm of the government publicly complains about violations abroad because that's essentially its job, for better or for worse.
- sschueller 9y agoThe US has still not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. "The United States had permitted the execution and life imprisonment of juvenile offenders, in contravention of the Article 37 of the Convention." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_th...
- Codestare 9y agoLand of the free. Making money off keeping people in prison, you have to be a cold-hearted SOB in this industry.
- sykh 9y agoThere is a callousness in the attitudes the general populace has toward prisoners. The American desire for retribution and revenge toward prisoners is insatiable. This overall attitude affects our views and reactions in other areas. For instance there is a lingering fear in a large segment of American society that poor people get something they don’t deserve through the welfare system. The dehumanizing way we view prisoners and their concerns is toxic. As a people we have lost our way.
- dfxm12 9y agoIt doesn't help that media outlets and politicians stir the pot so much. In my locality, we're going a step further and dehumanizing the accused. Any push for bail reform gets met with the same toxicity.
- sixothree 9y agoWhy has it become so hard to convince people that they should care about others.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- bhandziuk 9y agoIt's confusing because the people making these decisions surely have families and are not made of metal. Surely.
- mabbo 9y agoThis is American "justice" culture. We can do anything we want to "bad people" because they are intrinsically "bad". You can tell they're bad because they're in jail. If they were good people, like me, they wouldn't be in jail. Anyone caught suggesting something is too much punishment is not "tough on crime". They want the bad people to win (so don't vote for them!). Reducing sentence length, improving prison conditions, trying to actually help those on prison, that's all just weakness, that's not being tough on crime. Who cares that recividism is more expensive than rehabilitation- the point isn't to save money or reduce crime, it's to punish the bad people. I mean, if we stop thinking of them as bad people, how am I supposed to know that I'm a good person?
- akerro 9y ago>the point isn't to save money or reduce crime, it's to punish the bad people Actually, one of the reasons is to spend money on private prisons. Private prisons, bigpharma, lawyers make a lot of money on defending AND putting people to prison for stupid things, things that were delegalized by sponsored bills. We've known for years that alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than marijuana, yet, there are lobbies that benefit a lot from jailing people for having 5g of weed.
- slavak 9y agoPrivate prisons account for 8% of the total state and federal prison population in the United States+. Are they really a major driver of criminal policy? [+] https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-prisons-united-states/ https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso...
- mieseratte 9y agoHas the Netherlands, a country which has been closing prisons and even importing convicts from Belgium, faced any significant lobbying from the prison industrial complex and or any law enforcement organizations in favor of harsher sentencing? Or is this a uniquely American problem?
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoIf the misdeeds of politicians, beurocrats, cops, etc landed them in prison the way the misdeeds of "commoners" did the problem would solve itself. This is yet another problem that would be solved or mostly mitigated if the groups of people who shape, administrate and enforce the rules of society had to take their own medicine. It's much harder perpetuate an inhumane system for the purpose of screwing over people who screwed up when you and the people around you would have to face that same system if you screwed up.
- rdlecler1 9y agoI’d rather see augmentation than replacement — I bet we could reduce recidivism rates if we gave inmates more time with their families.
- nyxtom 9y agoFor profit jail systems are incentivizing some of the worst things in America. Speaking as someone who has a relative in prison, anything that can be charged - will be. Everything from email, food, hygenics, time, visitation... etc. Not to mention the imbalance of sentencing and recidivism rates.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- noisy_boy 9y agoFrom my limited knowledge about this, I think a big issue about contact visits is smuggling of drugs by the visitors (for profit or under gang-pressure with threat of violence on the inmate). This might help with that. However, thats not an issue for non-contact (behind a glass visits) so not sure why that shouldn't be allowed.
- sykh 9y agoI assume almost all contraband comes from employees. Visits are too infrequent and the monitoring of visits makes it too difficult to smuggle at scale via visitation without employee involvement.
- noxToken 9y agoI'm not gonna comment on the substitution of video calls for in-person visitation nor the kickbacks that prisons get for the offsite calls. We all know that it's garbage, and that companies like Securus are disgusting. I will say that the silver lining in all of this is that incarcerated peoples can finally still have visitation if someone is unable to physically come to them. Video calls have been commonplace for a quite a while, so maybe (though I'm not holding my breath) some jails and prisons will actually put them to good use. Sometimes I want to believe that common decency will win.
- Qwertie 9y agoIt's great to have video calls but as one comment pointed out, some of the companies selling these systems require the prisons to make them the only option.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- firic 9y agoPrison sentences really ruins people's lives. They lose their job, their house (can't pay mortgage or rent) and many times their relationship. I wonder how using ancient punishment would work nowadays. When someone commits a crime the judge and a doctor can decide how many time you should get whipped, shocked, or waterboarded and then after a few days of pain and humiliation the criminal can continue on with their life. Obviously for repeat offenders this may not work, but for first timers, it may work.
- BartBoch 9y agoThis is wrong on so many levels...
- AckSyn 9y agoIt sure beats losing your home, your job, and your relationship.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoI think you're under-estimating how disruptive prison is to one's life. I'd definitely choose lashes over prison. Heck, I'd probably take lashes + prison in order to get a felony reduced to a misdemeanor. It would suck less than the effects on my life from losing my job.
- dx034 9y agoI don't think torture is better than prison. Maybe for first offenders, working with them helps in many cases more than just throwing them in prison. Many minor crimes are a result of addiction or mental health issues. Fixing the cause will prevent future crime.
- Bromskloss 9y agoDid anyone think they would not hate it?
- chr1 9y agoInternet access should be one of inalienable human rights. And prisioners should be able to call home any time in addition to normal visitations.
- nkoren 9y ago> In the early years, companies selling video-visitation products would ask jails to sign contracts requiring them to phase out in-person visits. This seems evil. Actually evil. Inhuman, sick, psychopathically twisted, demonically evil. This is a contract that literally obligates its signatories to destroy other human souls: to deprive them of all touch, eye contact, the natural timbre of a loved one's actual voice. I cannot imagine how a person, peddling such a contract, could possibly sleep at night.
- magduf 9y ago>I cannot imagine how a person, peddling such a contract, could possibly sleep at night. Simple: because they're evil, psychopathically twisted and demonically evil, just like you said. And the government officials who agree to these contracts are just as demonically evil. I really think that estimates by mental health professionals that psychopaths are only 5% of the population are probably far, far too low.
- Havoc 9y agoThe stats I saw were actually lower. 2% for gen pop, 5% for corporate env.
- mrguyorama 9y agoOn a very expensive bed. Or for the employees on the lower rungs, by pretending they aren't being horrible
- currymj 9y agoif you are an engineer working for one of these companies, you should get a different job as soon as possible.
- mmirate 9y agoAnd if you are an unemployed engineer, you should seek out these companies in anticipation that their employees heed your comment.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y agoI understand you are a student, and you really need a job, but working for an unethical company is not worth it, for your sanity and the world. You didn't study for years just to end up making the world a worse place.
- mmirate 9y ago> You didn't study for years just to end up making the world a worse place. You are correct, I didn't study for years just to make the world a worse place. I'm not some cartoon villain. But I also didn't study for years just to make the world a better place. What I did study for years, was to obtain a valuable skill and a credential thereof. I expect that my lifetime earnings will be significantly higher on account of my education, compared to if I had not perused any undergraduate education; else I would have not spent so much time+tuition+effort. And if my skill becomes more valuable and rare for certain companies, on account of nothing more than the irrational bias of my peers? Not taking advantage of such an opportunity, is leaving money on the table. It's as irrational as being biased against them in the first place. > your sanity I don't understand. Do people actually go crazy whenever their company isn't Robin Hood reincarnate?
- travmatt 9y agoI’ve heard that in many cultures, being super logical without any emotional intelligence is a sign of immaturity. I’m beginning to see the wisdom in that.
- whack 9y agoThis doesn't have to be a political issue. No matter how "tough on crime" you are, bringing down recividism rates should be a priority for everyone. If nothing else, then at least for practical reasons. When you deprive prisoners of meaningful interactions with people on the outside, you are isolating them more and more from the "civilian" population, and civilian life. Which invariably means you're pushing them closer to other prisoners and prison gangs. As a direct result of this, when they leave prison, they won't have anyone else to turn to, in order to get their life back on track. The only option they know, and can easily access, is a life of crime together with their prison-peers. By not helping prisoners integrate into normal society, you are directly contributing to robbery, gang violence and homicide. That's the very opposite of being "tough on crime".
- magduf 9y agoThe "tough on crime" crowd doesn't think things through this much. All they care about is punishing people.
- burfog 9y agoI think you didn't notice the connection between "bringing down recividism rates should be a priority for everyone" and "when they leave prison". Make that "if they leave prison". Recividism is zero if they never leave.
- whack 9y agoI can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Are you advocating life imprisonment for crimes like robbery?
- burfog 9y agoI can't tell either. It's just an observation of something that is factually correct. I'm pointing out the coldly rational conclusion. I don't think I intend to advocate either way. Most robbers will reoffend. That really isn't OK. People get badly hurt and even killed in many cases, often including the robber. The robber may be safer in prison.
- jcsnv 9y agoThese video calls charge around $2/minute as well.
- vasundhar 9y ago1. This is not human 2. Any pubishment (In civiliaded world is meant for correction) 3. If Law permitted human interaction , there ahould not be any reason to stop it. 4. WRT : Private prisons , this means more surveillance , less policing( need to hire ) Since this is about the inmates, they do it without much resistance , for heavy pockets
- tomkinson 9y agoInhumane
- ezoe 9y agoHow can you certain that the video you're watching isn't procedurally generated fake, or there is a gun pointed at the prisoner from behind for not talking about human right violation?