7 ms·

Xerox calls off $6.1B sale to Fujifilm

132 points by danso 9y ago

neonate 9y ago
http://archive.is/cfPJC http://archive.is/cfPJC
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
lunaru 9y ago
Can anyone close to the Xerox/Fujifilm situation comment on why this matters/doesn't matter/is relevant?
- mathattack 9y ago
  Two old tech companies want to merge. An activist investor blocked this, figuring there is more to be made milking the technology on the way down. This can happen in software too.
  - sho 9y ago
    Is fujifilm really "on the way down"? They seem pretty well diversified with some good product lines. Hell, I own one of their recent cameras. Xerox I won't argue with, but they're still not exactly on death watch. Just get the sense your comment is a little negative, like they've both obviously failed and all that is left is milking the dying husks. Fujifilm could quite likely outlast facebook. It will almost certainly outlast the likes of snapchat, IMO. Old != bad.
    - weaksauce 9y ago
      Fujifilm also is not just electronics.
      - Bokanovsky 9y ago
        Believe it or not Fujifilm also make a range of cosmetics - http://www.fujifilm.com/products/skincare/history/ http://www.fujifilm.com/products/skincare/history/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c00511/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c00511/
        bnjms 9y ago
        There's the sort of fact that is surprising initially but is remarkably mundane and expected thing for a chemical company to do. I do expect them to have some other branding though.
      - calypso 9y ago
        I even use their film still. Granted they are discontinuing most of their film lines this year but still a very relevant company, especially with their mirrorless cameras
        paulmd 9y ago
        Disappointing, but unfortunately not surprising. They have been winding down their film production for a while now. First it was Astia and some of the oddball LF sizes, then it was FP100C in 4x5, then the 3x4, then FP3000B, and it just keeps rolling on. I've been expecting this for a while and have a good stash of film tucked away that will carry me for quite a while. I have about 150 rolls of various slide films in 120 and maybe 200 rolls of B+W in 120 and 35mm. I'll probably still try to tuck away another 100 rolls or so in the deep freezer if I can. Unlike FP-100C, slide+negative films can be stored for a long time (practically indefinitely) if kept cool/frozen. At this point I am getting worried about how long E-6 processing will be around though. There are DIY kits but they are not archival-grade stable. Fuji is also terrible at communicating these discontinuations to their customers. Several times now it's simply been "oops, we're out, this will be the last shipment", and only to their Asia distribution chain at that.
        Aloha 9y ago
        If no one is buying it - or not enough to sustain production, its going to go away.
  - euroclydon 9y ago
    Fujifilm is arguably the largest vender of medical imaging software in the world.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Icahn isn't looking to milk the technology on the way down. He's looking for a higher priced flip near-term. Xerox is going to very likely immediately move into an auction sale. They'll probably find a higher valuation for the sale in the next quarter or two. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/14/xerox-abandons-planned-deal-with-fujifilm-in-a-victory-for-activist-investors-icahn-and-deason.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/14/xerox-abandons-planned-deal-... http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44104809 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44104809
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Icahn is sort of an anti Buffett.
nikanj 9y ago
Maybe they’re hoping to double the value first by releasing their own bitcoin àla Kodak
- falcon620 9y ago
  Kodakoin! Edit: Wait, you weren't joking! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin omg. This is such a disgraceful way for that company to die.
  - cookingrobot 9y ago
    Kodak licensed their name to "Wenn Digital" to launch the coin using their name. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cybercoin-licensing-name-from-kodak-seeking-millions-from-investors-2018-05-11 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cybercoin-licensing-name-f...
  - DonHopkins 9y ago
    Better than being bought by Oracle, at least!
    - jngreenlee 9y ago
      "Announced today, Larry Coin offers tokenized ORACLE SQL transactions. Each coin holder can instantly validate their transaction was run in the ORACLE Cloud.[...]"
      - anoncoward111 9y ago
        Oracle's various cloud offerings are complete and total vaporware. maybe the ones that were acquired are legitimate but will eventually be mismanaged and exploded. oracle was billing my clients like $5,000 a day for phantom, non-existent "ENTERPRISE EDITION TM HYPER PERFORMANCE DATABAE CLUSTERS" that we never purchased
    - anoncoward111 9y ago
      used to work for oracle, can confirm, an acquisition of your firm by oracle is the end of all fun and sane times time to start looking or counting your shares if you were that high up in your firm :)
psetq 9y ago
Somewhat off topic, but If you're interested in the history of modern computing and not already familiar with the Xerox PARC [0] story, you should know that Xerox has a fascinating history of computer research innovation, and is often regarded as one of the real major driving forces behind the P.C. as we know it. An interesting account (as well as a great deal more about the rest of the history of modern computers) is documented in the book "The Dream Machine" [1], which I highly recommend if you find this sort of stuff interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company) [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine
- vvanders 9y ago
  Dealers of Lightning[0] is also pretty fantastic and covers PARC in good detail. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Lightning https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Light...
  - ghostcluster 9y ago
    Dealers of Lighting is great, and is good as an audiobook as well.
- dxf 9y ago
  I enjoyed reading "Fumbling the Future: How Xerox Invented, then Ignored, the First Personal Computer"[0]. At the end of the first half of the book, you wonder how anything can stop Xerox. In the second half, you learn how Xerox can stop Xerox. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/638812.Fumbling_the_Future https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/638812.Fumbling_the_Futu...
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Bitsavers is stuffed with all their research documents around Lisp, Smalltalk, Mesa and Mesa/Cedar. https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xerox https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xerox Graphical workstations, REPL, IDE like features with edit-and-continue capabilities, memory safe systems programming with GC, interactions between GUI components on the UI,... Many of the ideas that inspired research at ETHZ and DEC as well.
GnarfGnarf 9y ago
I worked for Xerox in 1979. They were totally focused on copiers. The management structure in the field had no idea what to do with the new technology. Classic Innovator's Dilemma. Branch staff found out about new Xerox products in the trade press, not from sources inside the company. Xerox withheld crucial technical information from its customers. Every new hire was issued a copy of "The Billions Nobody Wanted", a great book that ironically warned against the very malady that Xerox succumbed to.
crb002 9y ago
Surprised that Xerox hasn't gotten into Docusign, industrial 3D printing/scanning, PDF automation, general small manufacturing robotics ...
- csteinbe 9y ago
  Hah. I figured Xerox was dead, but didn't know it yet back in 2011 when they outsourced their product engineering to HCL (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-outsourcing-with-hcl-technologies-2011-05-24 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-outsourcing...). You can't enter new markets if you don't own your own engineering.

132 points by danso 9y ago

neonate 9y ago

http://archive.is/cfPJC http://archive.is/cfPJC

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

lunaru 9y ago

Can anyone close to the Xerox/Fujifilm situation comment on why this matters/doesn't matter/is relevant?

mathattack 9y ago
Two old tech companies want to merge. An activist investor blocked this, figuring there is more to be made milking the technology on the way down. This can happen in software too.
- sho 9y ago
  Is fujifilm really "on the way down"? They seem pretty well diversified with some good product lines. Hell, I own one of their recent cameras. Xerox I won't argue with, but they're still not exactly on death watch. Just get the sense your comment is a little negative, like they've both obviously failed and all that is left is milking the dying husks. Fujifilm could quite likely outlast facebook. It will almost certainly outlast the likes of snapchat, IMO. Old != bad.
  - weaksauce 9y ago
    Fujifilm also is not just electronics.
    - Bokanovsky 9y ago
      Believe it or not Fujifilm also make a range of cosmetics - http://www.fujifilm.com/products/skincare/history/ http://www.fujifilm.com/products/skincare/history/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c00511/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/c00511/
      - bnjms 9y ago
        There's the sort of fact that is surprising initially but is remarkably mundane and expected thing for a chemical company to do. I do expect them to have some other branding though.
    - calypso 9y ago
      I even use their film still. Granted they are discontinuing most of their film lines this year but still a very relevant company, especially with their mirrorless cameras
      - paulmd 9y ago
        Disappointing, but unfortunately not surprising. They have been winding down their film production for a while now. First it was Astia and some of the oddball LF sizes, then it was FP100C in 4x5, then the 3x4, then FP3000B, and it just keeps rolling on. I've been expecting this for a while and have a good stash of film tucked away that will carry me for quite a while. I have about 150 rolls of various slide films in 120 and maybe 200 rolls of B+W in 120 and 35mm. I'll probably still try to tuck away another 100 rolls or so in the deep freezer if I can. Unlike FP-100C, slide+negative films can be stored for a long time (practically indefinitely) if kept cool/frozen. At this point I am getting worried about how long E-6 processing will be around though. There are DIY kits but they are not archival-grade stable. Fuji is also terrible at communicating these discontinuations to their customers. Several times now it's simply been "oops, we're out, this will be the last shipment", and only to their Asia distribution chain at that.
        Aloha 9y ago
        If no one is buying it - or not enough to sustain production, its going to go away.
- euroclydon 9y ago
  Fujifilm is arguably the largest vender of medical imaging software in the world.
- adventured 9y ago
  Icahn isn't looking to milk the technology on the way down. He's looking for a higher priced flip near-term. Xerox is going to very likely immediately move into an auction sale. They'll probably find a higher valuation for the sale in the next quarter or two. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/14/xerox-abandons-planned-deal-with-fujifilm-in-a-victory-for-activist-investors-icahn-and-deason.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/14/xerox-abandons-planned-deal-... http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44104809 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-44104809
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Icahn is sort of an anti Buffett.

nikanj 9y ago

Maybe they’re hoping to double the value first by releasing their own bitcoin àla Kodak

falcon620 9y ago
Kodakoin! Edit: Wait, you weren't joking! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin omg. This is such a disgraceful way for that company to die.
- cookingrobot 9y ago
  Kodak licensed their name to "Wenn Digital" to launch the coin using their name. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cybercoin-licensing-name-from-kodak-seeking-millions-from-investors-2018-05-11 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cybercoin-licensing-name-f...
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Better than being bought by Oracle, at least!
  - jngreenlee 9y ago
    "Announced today, Larry Coin offers tokenized ORACLE SQL transactions. Each coin holder can instantly validate their transaction was run in the ORACLE Cloud.[...]"
    - anoncoward111 9y ago
      Oracle's various cloud offerings are complete and total vaporware. maybe the ones that were acquired are legitimate but will eventually be mismanaged and exploded. oracle was billing my clients like $5,000 a day for phantom, non-existent "ENTERPRISE EDITION TM HYPER PERFORMANCE DATABAE CLUSTERS" that we never purchased
  - anoncoward111 9y ago
    used to work for oracle, can confirm, an acquisition of your firm by oracle is the end of all fun and sane times time to start looking or counting your shares if you were that high up in your firm :)

psetq 9y ago

Somewhat off topic, but If you're interested in the history of modern computing and not already familiar with the Xerox PARC [0] story, you should know that Xerox has a fascinating history of computer research innovation, and is often regarded as one of the real major driving forces behind the P.C. as we know it. An interesting account (as well as a great deal more about the rest of the history of modern computers) is documented in the book "The Dream Machine" [1], which I highly recommend if you find this sort of stuff interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company) [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine

vvanders 9y ago
Dealers of Lightning[0] is also pretty fantastic and covers PARC in good detail. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Lightning https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Light...
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Dealers of Lighting is great, and is good as an audiobook as well.
dxf 9y ago
I enjoyed reading "Fumbling the Future: How Xerox Invented, then Ignored, the First Personal Computer"[0]. At the end of the first half of the book, you wonder how anything can stop Xerox. In the second half, you learn how Xerox can stop Xerox. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/638812.Fumbling_the_Future https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/638812.Fumbling_the_Futu...
pjmlp 9y ago
Bitsavers is stuffed with all their research documents around Lisp, Smalltalk, Mesa and Mesa/Cedar. https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xerox https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xerox Graphical workstations, REPL, IDE like features with edit-and-continue capabilities, memory safe systems programming with GC, interactions between GUI components on the UI,... Many of the ideas that inspired research at ETHZ and DEC as well.

GnarfGnarf 9y ago

I worked for Xerox in 1979. They were totally focused on copiers. The management structure in the field had no idea what to do with the new technology. Classic Innovator's Dilemma. Branch staff found out about new Xerox products in the trade press, not from sources inside the company. Xerox withheld crucial technical information from its customers. Every new hire was issued a copy of "The Billions Nobody Wanted", a great book that ironically warned against the very malady that Xerox succumbed to.

crb002 9y ago

Surprised that Xerox hasn't gotten into Docusign, industrial 3D printing/scanning, PDF automation, general small manufacturing robotics ...

csteinbe 9y ago
Hah. I figured Xerox was dead, but didn't know it yet back in 2011 when they outsourced their product engineering to HCL (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-outsourcing-with-hcl-technologies-2011-05-24 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-outsourcing...). You can't enter new markets if you don't own your own engineering.