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Things no one tells you before an Antarctic expedition (2015)
- themodelplumber 8y ago> A normal man burns about 2,500 calories in a day. We burn between 7,000 to 9,000. This kind of thing is fascinating to me. It reminds me of the guy [1] who took 64,000 extra calories of olive oil along on his tiny-yacht trip across the Atlantic, because it's so dense in calories. Or the fact that on the day a climber summits Everest, they'll burn around 20,000 calories. That's almost 40 McDonald's Big Macs worth of energy. 1. http://www.yachtingworld.com/extraordinary-boats/undaunted-the-42-inch-yacht-still-hoping-to-become-the-smallest-boat-ever-to-cross-the-atlantic-107559 http://www.yachtingworld.com/extraordinary-boats/undaunted-t...
- hinkley 8y agoAnother thing They don’t tell you is that there are limits to how fast your stomach can absorb calories while you’re exercising. All those weird foods that runners and cyclists eat are (or rather, were, before the ad men got involved) optimized based on research into absorption. I don’t know where things are now since I’m a recovering couch potato, but there was a time where our best research said anything denser than Gatorade would not hit your bloodstream any faster. What keeps you from digesting your own muscles immediately is that your liver stores a few thousand calories of reserve sugars. So one day of heavy exertion you can mostly shrug off. Days or weeks take planning or moderation or you’ll digest the muscles you aren’t using (see also bicyclist physique)
- drdrey 8y agoThe liver doesn't store that much (1000 calories = 250g glycogen, well over what the liver itself stores). You do have a couple thousand calories of glycogen available but mostly stored in muscles
- hinkley 8y agoWell I guess you can only trust popular sports medicine so far. Looks like actual is more like 400 calories. While useful, that leaves the muscles, as you say, as the primary reserve.
- qaq 8y agoSo you could loose about 1kg per day in weight ?
- johnchristopher 8y agoBasically. But you'd burn muscles fast at some points. Then no more nutrients/protein even though you are still skin, bones, ligaments, etc. So you finally die of a heart failure or a disease your body can't no longer fight. https://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/starving.php https://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/starving.php
- hinkley 8y agoThe other reason to eat an oil product is that it takes more calories to digest. So it keeps you warmer when you aren’t moving.
- will_brown 8y agoLast year I tracked 294 runs and my app calculated I burned 260,900 calories (over 2,040 miles). Funny enough I calculated my average calorie burn per day of snowboarding at 8,000 calories right between the estimate provided from the article. A lot of people will talk about calories in/out, but the body is far more complex. For starters diet will dictate the primary fuel source (glucose or fat), a body that burns fat as the primary source of energy will have nearly infinite energy supply while glucose store will empty relatively quickly, and once that’s used up the body will start breaking down the amino acids in muscle tissue and converting it to glucose. Like you I find nutrition very fascinating, but I’d take that olive oil (healthy fat) over 40 Big Macs any day.
- git_rancher 8y agoFat vs glucose being the energy source depending on diet? Where can I find more info about this?
- jon_richards 8y agoI think that's the premise behind keto.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoYes, but that works on the idea that providing no glucose to the body will make it switch to fat instead. So it's not really diet "controlling" which fuel source to use, just body using the best fuel source available, and switching to the next one when the previous one runs out.
- therein 8y agoI've followed a ketogenic diet for over over six months and lost 60lbs during that time while eating a disgusting amount of protein and fat. I never felt more clear-minded than I did during the diet. Colors were enhanced and I felt like I had unlimited energy. No ups and downs in mood during the day, no "unknown crash" at the end of the day. Of course this is after the initial crash that you experience until your body figures out it needs to switch fuel. It made me realize, often when we say we are hungry and we are craving something, it's not that we are hungry, it's that we are craving carbs.
- blhack 8y agoImagine how much energy it would take to keep about 200lbs of water at about 98F degrees all the time when it is -40F outside. That's what your body is doing 24 hours a day. It takes a LOT of energy to do that. Quite frankly I think it's incredible that stuff like this is even possible.
- dsjoerg 8y agoOf course it matters how the water is wrapped/insulated. With good enough insulation it doesn't take much energy at all.
- st26 8y agoUntil the water starts insisting on breathing.
- srean 8y agoIndeed, there couldn't be a better heat exchanger !
- aquamo 8y agoYes indeed! One of the advantages of diving underwater with a re-breather is that you lose less heat through respiration compared to open circuit SCUBA diving. Also the type of gases you have in your mix matter but that's another topic altogether. For the record, I've eaten butter camping in the winter - long lasting dense energy source for sure :-) My favorite is Kerry Gold Irish unsalted :-)
- jackconnor 8y agoWow such a great way of letting me wrap my head around this, thanks.
- Pxtl 8y agoNow the oil makes me wonder if this was a tool in how the Romans conquered - better marching on their own supplies since their culture had a fatty food staple?
- chx 8y agoStrongman competitors consume insane amount of calories: Hafþór is reportedly on a diet with more than 10000, Brian Shaw posted a video a year ago about his 12000+ diet.
- MagnumOpus 8y agoThese strongmen also have five times the body mass of the average person - unlike the antarctic explorers....
- chx 8y agoThese two are like 190-195kg. A lot certainly but not five times. Even Andre The Giant is billed "only" at 236kg.
- stefan_ 8y ago20000 calories? That must be american calories. If we subtract 2000 kcal for general upkeep that's still the equivalent of pedaling on an ergo at 220 watts for a continuous 24 hours. Half the population can't sustain that for a mere 20 minutes. Why can't they? Because it exceeds their maximum rate of oxygen consumption. That also tells us they can't in any scenario burn that many calories in a day.
- deepsun 8y agoMost of the calories spent not on muscle movement that consumes oxygen, but on warming up the body. That probably also consumes oxygen, but I'm not sure how much.
- nradov 8y agoGenerating energy takes roughly the same amount of oxygen either way regardless of whether you're pedaling a bike or just staying warm in a freezing environment.
- robotresearcher 8y agoWhen working, keeping warm doesn't use additional calories to the work (skiing and sled-pulling), since heat is a biproduct of the work. In fact they are careful not to work too hard so they don't sweat. (Getting wet makes their insulation ineffective, so is very dangerous.)
- clementmas 8y agoI would also burn 7,000 calories every day to row across the Atlantic [1] but if the freeze dried food is varied enough, there's no need to eat raw butter. 1. https://clem.travelmap.net https://clem.travelmap.net
- qume 8y agoSo good to have dudes like you posting on HN. Thanks & great work with TravelMap
- justinator 8y agoOn some of my multiday, light and fast peak bagging missions last year, I would supplement my diet with coconut oil. Reasons: * Doesn't spoil, like butter could (clarified butter may work, but it's liquid at room temp) * Less of a chance to get all over the place, like olive oil. * Found in the strangest of places, like tiny grocery stores in even little mountain towns. * Smell less than butter (or bacon), so less of a chance to find a friendly bear in my food. I mostly ate peanut butter (caloric rich itself) and jelly tortillas. Put some coconut oil in that sucker, and it tastes like the finest french pastries. I never liked the stuff before. I was considering just eating Crisco (doesn't spoil at room temp, no mess), but coconut butter seemed a bit more appealing. I talk a bit about what I ate in a presentation I did recently. Fast forward to that part: https://youtu.be/kJ_U6cmGBHY?t=42m28s https://youtu.be/kJ_U6cmGBHY?t=42m28s The next slide shows that, despite the added calories, I was at a caloric deficit, in which I lost 15 pounds over 2 months.
- laythea 8y agoThat doesn't sound very healthy to me. Is it not like running your car at 9000rpm instead of the normal rpm. This will cause engine wear and premature end of life. I assume it would be the same for humans, but stand to be corrected.
- spodek 8y ago> putting in 12-14 hour days of pulling a sled in minus 40C, you have to Oddly they include the redundant "C" for -40 but don't include it, or the "F," in the next paragraph: > by running outside naked in minus 30 and rubbing yourself down with snow Then they restore redundant ones a few paragraphs later: > * It may be as low as minus 40C outside* . . . which in minus 40C is quite high
- magic_beans 8y agoThis is quite the nitpick.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- lostlogin 8y agoWe have had the units nitpick for distance and temperature now. There must be another, wonder if we can get a third?
- Symbiote 8y agoOn this page, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17055920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17055920 is the nitpick for energy.
- swerveonem 8y agoThey already established the context, C, it would be more ridiculous to switch units but if they were unit switchers they would include it.
- rando444 8y agoI think he's saying -40C and -40F are the same thing, and is complaining about the units being on the 40 and not the 30. It's a rather extreme nitpick.
- dmvaldman 8y ago> It may seem stupid celebrating traveling 100km when you have 18 times that distance to go, but never underestimate the power of denial. I think this quote applies well to entrepreneurship
- crispyporkbites 8y agoIt’s hard to know what to celebrate, as it’s often not as easy to quantify as a kilometre
- kgilpin 8y agoCelebrate bookings, revenue and customer successes! Celebrate teams who work well together. Don’t celebrate fund raising.
- fizixer 8y agoGood for that guy but by 'Antarctic expedition' I was expecting something different. I'm a lot more interested in going to Antarctica, spend a few months there as part of some scientific research team. Or maybe just go there as a part time low skill worker, so that my whole trip is funded and at the same time I don't have to work more than a few hours a day. I just want the feeling of having lived in Antarctica for a few months. (internet access is a must).
- st26 8y agoOr maybe just go there as a part time low skill worker, so that my whole trip is funded and at the same time I don't have to work more than a few hours a day. I just want the feeling of having lived in Antarctica for a few months. (internet access is a must). Your idea of an "expedition" is pretty damn weird.
- mattlondon 8y agoFor what it is worth, my wife and I visited some Chilean and Russian bases in Antarctica a couple of years ago as part of a tourist visit. The Chilean base was military search & rescue and they were literally sitting around watching DVDs. The Chilean guys especially seemed absolutely desperate for new faces/human contact and welcomed us into their base with open arms (and even offered us beers!) The Russian base I could only enter one room (and a church!) so did not see how busy the were or how desperate they were in there. Some of the other bases that I could not go in to looked like basically just 2 to 4 huts/sheds - nothing like the "village" style bases/stations with loads of people milling about you might be familiar seeing. They didn't looks like fun or inviting places to hang-out at. From what I understand, the scientific bases aren't really set up for carrying part-timers. E.g. the scientists are also the cooks and the mechanics etc. I don't think they'd pay to transport, feed, heat, and give a bed to someone to just do a couple of hours work a day then hog the super-expensive bandwidth on the satellite link? They'd much rather give that fuel, food, heat and bed to a scientist I think, or at least not someone there for free accommodation & internet. tl;dr - join the chilean military and hope you get stationed out there.
- Thlom 8y agoThey need electricians, technicians, mechanics, carpenters, cooks, probably sysadmins and much more over there. It's absolutely possible to get work in Antarctica and other remote scientific research stations for "normal" people. The American station at McMurdo have a population of 200+ people in the winter months and over 1000 in the summer months. edit: See this link[0] for some information about life in Antarctiva and how to get a job. [0]: https://www.coolantarctica.com/Community/find_a_job_in_antarctica.php https://www.coolantarctica.com/Community/find_a_job_in_antar...
- andyidsinga 8y agonot too off topic: I've been reading "The Worst Journey in the World" - fascinating! also, to help with the general mood I bought a bottle of this whisky: https://www.whiskyshop.com/shackleton https://www.whiskyshop.com/shackleton cheers!
- drdrey 8y agoGreat book! You may also enjoy this story : https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/12/the-white-darkness https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/12/the-white-dark...
- andyidsinga 8y agothank you! - looks interesting. will read.
- andyidsinga 8y agoDude, after reading the Atlantic article I remembered hearing about that expedition. hard core ..and this pic, its timeless https://www.newyorker.com/projects/interactive/2018/180212-grann/assets/photo/finals/r31463.jpg https://www.newyorker.com/projects/interactive/2018/180212-g...
- InitialLastName 8y agoIs anyone else bothered by the unit switching this guy is doing? > On the traverse of Antarctica we were trying to cover 1,850km. After the first week, we had only done a few miles total and then had to climb 3,000m onto the high polar plateau. That's 3 distance units in two sentences where 1 unit would suffice with almost no changes ("a few miles" is approximately identical to "a few kilometers").
- robterrell 8y agoPerhaps the second unit is "meters," as in, "climbed 3km onto the high polar plateau."
- InitialLastName 8y agoFor sure it is, and that one is almost reasonable, as meters tend to be used more than miles or km for elevation. The switch between miles and kilometers with no cause bothers me more than that.
- jdblair 8y agoBut there's no use of miles at all in the article. It uses kilometers for distance and meters for elevation.
- InitialLastName 8y ago> After the first week, we had only done a few miles...
- jdblair 8y agoOk, my bad.
- Thlom 8y agoIn Scandinavia at least we use mile for 10 km. Not sure how common it is elsewhere.
- wufufufu 8y agoWhy not peanut/almond butter instead of butter?
- ttonkytonk 8y agoTurns to rock in the cold
- pvaldes 8y agoAlmond could have also a small amount of cyanide. Bad idea if you plan to eat a lot of the stuff.
- sneak 8y agoAFAIU only bitter almonds, which are not used to make almond butter, contain significant amounts of cyanide. You could eat pounds of almond butter and not have an issue.
- pvaldes 8y agoIs interesting, so I did some calculus. If we assume a 75Kg standard male human the lethal dose of cyanide would be 37.5 mg (0.5 mg by Kg)[A]. A Kg of sweet almonds has more or less, 25mg of cyanide [B] therefore if you eat 1,5Kg of almond butter in a short space of time you could reach the lethal dose. Is a lot of butter but: 1) If you eat less you could still vomit or have stomach problems that could lower your chances of survival in such hostile environment. 2) the maker could had used some cheaper bitter almonds in the mix to lower the price. Bitter almonds have much more cyanide so even a few could lower the lethal oral dose. And 3) there is a possible interaction with vitamin C suplements, that turn amygdalin in cyanide [2]. [A] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3793392/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3793392/ [B] https://www.almonds.com/sites/default/files/content/attachments/2014aq0004_amygdalin_publication_overview.pdf https://www.almonds.com/sites/default/files/content/attachme...
- 8y ago
- z3t4 8y ago-30C is actually not that bad when the air is dry.
- tobltobs 8y agoand you have no wind.
- z3t4 8y agoYeh, -30 with low humidity, wind free and sunny, it feels like +10
- dpc59 8y agoit's also much easier to stay dry, and thus warm, at -30 than at -2
- z3t4 8y agoTry -30 and 75% relative humidity. It takes a few weeks for the humidity to go down, but during those weeks you will freeze your ass off.
- bluedino 8y ago>> We burn between 7,000 to 9,000. That means supplementing your dehydrated food with slabs of butter. In the first few days of the expedition, it tastes revolting, but then your body just craves the fat content and you eat the butter like blocks of cheese. I wonder how many sticks they eat a day. 1 stick is around 800 calories. Eating a stick of butter is a popular food challenge video on YouTube, but some guys eat 4 sticks (1lb) without any problem, in just a few minutes.
- petemir 8y agoI was there for a whole year, in a scientific base of my country. Being a controlled environment, I couldn't relate much with the items, except for > 10. Re-entry. > There is often a huge sense of isolation and disconnect when you come back to everyday life. For so long, you have been out in the wilderness and singularly concerned with survival and mileage, so when you get back to the real world and people talk about their jobs, or what they did at the weekend, it all feels foreign. You must remember that people have their own lives and their own interests. Just because you like Antarctica and polar expeditions, it doesn't mean anyone else should give a damn about you or what you did. It was hard to come back to the real life...
- telesilla 8y agoThat applies to most things that take an extreme amount of effort: most don't have the opportunity (or make it) to travel far from where they come from. As an intrepid traveller myself, I found that it doesn't really matter when you are interacting with people you like: everyone interesting travels somewhere in their mind, if not the world, and has stories to tell. But yeah reading this article I'm thinking, I HOPE I never have to worry about frostbite. Kudos to the author.
- killjoywashere 8y agoRe-entry is definitely a huge part of military deployments as well. There's this overwhelming certainty that these people just don't have their priorities straight.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoI’ve been around the world enough to see some extreme poverty - come back and friends are complaining about the generally harmless hobos downtown :/ I think it’s perspective of just getting away from what you’re used to. Re-entry isn’t the issue, it thats that it your new awareness can’t be shared with people who haven’t left.
- csydas 8y ago
- forapurpose 8y ago> Middle aged people tend to make better polar explorers. Not so much because they are physically more capable, but more to do with their mental capacity. Out on the high polar plateau there is nothing but endless white stretching off in every direction. You ski for 12 hours a day and because of the wind and cold, it’s almost impossible to talk to your team mates. So, in effect, you are alone in your head for all that time. By being a bit older and having a bit more life experience, it helps fill the blank canvas that is Antarctica. I always wonder if the same would apply to soldiers. A former special forces soldier I know said that they didn't look for jocks (though you need some athleticism); they looked for people with the ability to perform as a highly functional team member under extreme stress and exhaustion - sort of like the developer who maintains their sense of humor, keeps everyone loose, and still turns out work to the highest standards after a week of 18 hour days, with a deadline breathing down your necks and an angry boss. It seems to me that older people are generally more capable in that regard. > [the butter] tastes revolting, but then your body just craves the fat content and you eat the butter like blocks of cheese. He needs a bit of better butter. I highly recommend eating Plugra butter straight, assuming that your heart doesn't need all that blood all the time. Really; go buy some and you will come back and thank me. I can't even imagine how good it would taste in the author's situation. (I have no affiliation with Plugra.)
- drharby 8y agoA special forces operator must maintain vigilant SA and mental fortitude because the nature of the missions are such that you will be without mission support for days at a time. A programmrr enduring 18 hour work days is shitty/abusuve management.
- deepGem 8y agoMiddle aged people tend to make better polar explorers Perhaps for the same reasons they tend to be better entrepreneurs.
- antisthenes 8y agoLike having access to capital?
- lolive 8y agoI would highly recommend this blog about surviving in Antartica (and not loosing all your SANity points ;) http://sme.wikidot.com http://sme.wikidot.com