10 ms·

Why I'm leaving Open Source

109 points by gbrown_ 8y ago

nukeop 8y ago
From the man who brought you "The Case for Non-Binary Genders" last year. No thanks.
- tw1010 8y ago
  We shouldn't ostracise someone merely for presenting the case for something.
  - nukeop 8y ago
    We should, if the something in question is destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good. We don't have to tolerate every possible opinion just because some people are conflict-avoidant.
    - seba_dos1 8y ago
      That's exactly why you are [flagged][dead].
      - nukeop 8y ago
        Ok, and who cares really? Do you think you only have worth if you have many HN points?
        mijoharas 8y ago
        > We should, if the something in question is destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good. We don't have to tolerate every possible opinion just because some people are conflict-avoidant The point being made by the parent comment to yours is not that you have been fined "HN points", but that your opinions posted are toxic, "destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good" which is why they have been deleted and flagged, (given what you just said, you should be celebrating this fact, though I assume since the communities views on toxicity differ from your own you will be decrying the censorship of your viewpoint).
    - SpecialistEMT 8y ago
      What's wrong with the topic?
    - dingo_bat 8y ago
      I agree that not all opinions need be accepted. But they do deserve a look. Also, a commit's author should be judged from his code quality, not from his opinion on random issues.
      - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
        > Also, a commit's author should be judged from his code quality, not from his opinion on random issues. You say that, but there's been a number of OS developers that have been ostracised and expelled from communities by something they (for example) tweeted. Contributors are rejected to contribute because they don't conform to a code of conduct. People lose jobs over being called out for jokes at conferences (and over calling out said jokes, both in part thanks to internet armies). So while in theory it should, in practice people will get vetted and judged for their online presence. In other words, the ye olde adage is still valid; don't be identifiable online. If you're an OS developer / contributor with an unpopular opinion, best to keep that part separate from your OS contributor profile. And keep your real name safe.
        VLM 8y ago
        The oppression is exclusively from one extreme of the political spectrum directed rightward, which triggers anyone believing in fairness or freedom of speech.
      - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
        I hope this comment won't be misconstrued as advocating for censorship: Is it really true that for no combination of position and person, it's a net negative for that person to consider the merits of that position? For example, should a recovering alcoholic consider an argument regarding one particular liquor being better than another?
        dingo_bat 8y ago
        You're right. Every single opinion need not even be considered either. But people should be allowed to hold it and you shouldn't disadvantage them in an unrelated field because of it. I don't care if my coworker thinks that gay marriage is a sin. It is his right to hold that opinion. If he doesn't let it come in the way of his work it's fine. But that doesn't mean I am asking everybody to consider his viewpoint. If it is absurd enough for you you needn't worry about it.
- dang 8y ago
  Since you have a history of posting flamebait and personal attacks to Hacker News and we warned you about it before, we've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - nukeop 8y ago
    Ok, I won't argue with that. I don't see any way I could convince you of anything believably, since I'm just some stranger on the internet. Please just do me a favor and delete all the posts I've ever made from this account, thanks.
nartz 8y ago
A 100% out-of-context-single-data-point suggestion: Seems like the author has a lot of great ideas, but would benefit greatly from increased collaboration - getting the proper feedback, morphing ideas from theoretical land into reality, and also benefiting from the mindshare (and energy) of others - even something as simple as getting another pair of eyes to help debug. Most big things are built by teams, not by individuals (even if the contributions are skewed). Every time an open source developer stops working, a star burns out somewhere in the universe.
- WhitneyLand 8y ago
  @nartz, thank you. I wrote a similar comment below before seeing yours, and now I’m even more curious: How much opportunity did Ticki have for good collaboration, just on that one, huge unresolved bug? How much could it have short circuited that month long drought? I’m not sure exactly how much our thoughts were overlapping, but in case you haven’t heard the name of one particular flavor, @serens response to my comment shows the wikipedia reference to the concept, apparently known to some as “rubber duck debugging”. The WP article centers around debugging, however it seems commonplace in many subjects and problem solving variations. I suspect it’s just as effective at ideation or design stages, or even when purely theoretical creativity is desired, for example in proving a mathematical result.
devgutt 8y ago
> Perfectionism makes me a poor Open Source contributor. It's interesting that the OP ended up on this conclusion, although it would be much much better long-term to take the necessary time to deliver good pieces.
hardwaresofton 8y ago
This is probably the kind of person you don't want to cut ties with open source too often. Good software, from research to implementation takes a huge amount of resources (both people-hours and people to put in those hours), and the kind that measure 20 times before making 1 cut are some of the most important, because they are the type that should be in charge of the types of early design decisions. For every one of these kinds of developers, it seems like there are at least 10 who measure way less and cut way more (myself included in that 10). I do think ticki might find his way back to F/OSS with Haskell or some similarly related ML project, they can offer a good mix of ivory-tower and just enough in-the-weeds implementation to make rigid, type-safe, theoretically sound systems and abstractions... Maybe it was just an issue of picking the right language to pursue the purity he was seeking -- one further away from the mainstream, under less pressure to "get shit done".
- jstimpfle 8y ago
  In the first place, good software is software that exists. I don't know ticki or his work, but if it is vaporware what he calls vaporware, then there is no way for it to be good software. If ticki reads this: props for the clear words. Honest posts like this are rarely seen. And good luck for your career in mathematics. Though I figure great mathematics is not much different than great software (I'm not talking about glue-coding): It needs to exist. You need to find simple, obviously correct, and useful models to create something that other things can build on. And if you decide to come back later: A clear goal helps separating the essential from the non-essential. Formalism is only a tool, not an end in itself.
  - hardwaresofton 8y ago
    I don't agree with the notion that software has to be finished to be good (which isn't exactly what you said but the implication seems to be there). Taken literally, software that is unfinished (i.e. unusable) cannot possibly be good, obviously, but software that was been theorized but didn't necessarily exist in finished form until relatively recently is pretty common. If you don't want to make a bundled mess of spaghetti design, theory/play/experimentation that doesn't necessarily turn into a functioning project is crucial, ideas are sometimes reused/refactored into a project that is completed. Maybe if none of his work was actually published at all, then that statement would make sense (since it would literally be impossible to derive value from something that doesn't exist), but he's contributed documentation, schematics, etc, it's vaporware in the sense that it isn't a finished product and may never actually become one since he's not supporting it anymore, but if someone else sees what he's done (ex. https://github.com/redox-os/tfs https://github.com/redox-os/tfs), they might pick it up and finish it. ATM there are 500+ commits to that project, I find it hard to believe that if what he was doing is worth doing that those commits are completely worthless.
josteink 8y ago
Replying to a flagged/deleted comment from "nukeop": > From the man who brought you "The Case for Non-Binary Genders" last year. No thanks. Link for the lazy: https://ticki.github.io/blog/the-case-for-non-binary-genders/ https://ticki.github.io/blog/the-case-for-non-binary-genders... While this comment may not be directly "productive", I think the immediate response to it, and in general response to the topic at hand is rather instructive. It shows a general negativity (on both sides) which is obviously detracting from the positive energy and enthusiasm associated with (and often crucial for) sustainable open-source software projects. For all the good various diversity-initiatives has intended to do, I must admit I've yet to see any proof that these actually work and give the promised results. It's their claim and thus their responsibility to prove. Faced with constant reminders (like this) of how they keep causing toxic debates, which again and again causes people to leave (or avoid joining), it's easy to assume that right now these well intended initiatives, executed as they are, represent a net negative. Let's not make FOSS a matter of gender-identities and diversity, but again focus on the product, the commits, the code and the incremental improvements. Towards reaching a common goal, together. We should all focus on the good things which are uniting instead of letting a select few try to force a divisive agenda top-down upon a audience we know will give a mixed reception. Let's not kill something good with something well-meant, but misguided.
- nukeop 8y ago
  I don't think there ever was a single person that changed their mind after reading a misguided moralistic sermon. Common sense dictates that the topics of software development and identity politics do not overlap at all, but there are groups that try to, against overwhelming pushback, use one to gain control over the other in bizarre and puzzling ways. Every time somebody forces a "code of conduct" on a project that was doing very well without it, lots of talented developers leave, and, I imagine, an angel cries.
  - Majestic121 8y ago
    You're the one forcing identity politics into this thread, by digging up a one year old unrelated article. I actually agree with you when you say that software development and identity politic don't overlap. So please, practice what you preach and stop trying to bring identity politics on an interesting subject about OSS and perfectionism.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
legostormtroopr 8y ago
Who is Ticki? Why is this important?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- solarkraft 8y ago
  I don't know them, but the story is pretty significant
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  I think the story is interesting regardless of the author.
- twic 8y ago
  Ticki was an active member of the Rust community, whose contribution was energetically and cheerfully campaigning for ambitious features. Sometimes perhaps a little too ambitious, but that's a useful kind of person to have in a community. For example, Ticki wrote an early proposal for type-level integers, which everyone knows Rust needs eventually, but hadn't been able to work up a concrete proposal for: https://github.com/ticki/rfcs/blob/pi-types/text/0000-pi-types.md https://github.com/ticki/rfcs/blob/pi-types/text/0000-pi-typ... Outside the core project, Ticki was involved with RedoxOS, an OS written in Rust: https://github.com/redox-os/redox#-ecosystem- https://github.com/redox-os/redox#-ecosystem- Particularly the TFS filesystem: https://github.com/redox-os/tfs https://github.com/redox-os/tfs TFS naver came to fruition, so RedoxOS still runs on its original filesystem, RedoxFS. Why is this important? It isn't, any more so than the other 29 things currently on the front page!
jordigh 8y ago
Anyone know what kind of mathematics Ticki will be doing? Talking about correctness makes me thinks she or he is going to gravitate towards logic and foundations and the sorts of mathematics that computer people usually like. I ask because as someone who works with computers and doesn't prefer computery mathematics, I'm always looking for a kindred spirit.
devnonymous 8y ago
Reading the comments here one would not think that the post is about someone who 1. Is announcing withdrawal from (active) FOSS, to focus full time on mathematics 2. Who also think they are not the best suited for contributing to Rust because they have a theoretical bent and aim for getting things right rather than simple or working... And acknowledge that this might be a limitation 3. Would like others to take over their projects Rather the comments here lead you to think this is some sort of a negative disgruntled rant. /Smh
DoreenMichele 8y ago
There is a couple of reasons for my choice. My main reason is that I have chosen to pursue a career in mathematics research. This is an extremely tough field and with this decision, I have no way of continuing my involvement in these very time consuming projects. When I was a military wife, I did a lot of volunteer work. I had time on my hands, but not enough to pursue a serious career, and I didn't have a pressing need for earned income because my husband's career provided adequately for the family. Some military wives seem to have a third baby about the time the second one starts kindergarten or first grade. I volunteered. It kept me occupied and met some of my needs on a schedule I could sustain. My kids grew up and I got divorced. My time constraints went down and my need for money went up. I began investing more time and effort in developing a career and income, less in doing volunteer work. I think that is kind of the norm. People do this sort of thing when they have some time on their hands and volunteer work meets some need that isn't being met some other way in their life. Their life changes, they move on. I wish more goodbyes were clearer about that. These types of posts are very often a rant about the rest of the world.
daenz 8y ago
This reads me like the lowest part of a burnout episode. I don't mean to trivialize the author's experience...I'm sure their experience and what they are describing is very real. But when you're experiencing a defeat (even a defeat not caused by a single specific event), it can compound the whole "what am I doing with my life" feeling. I hope the author gets back into open source though eventually. We need people who can bring levels of correctness that mathematics students tend to pursue. Even if its complicated, it can push the artform forward, and everyone else will adapt.
- mycomments2017 8y ago
  > But when you're experiencing a defeat (even a defeat not caused by a single specific event), it can compound the whole "what am I doing with my life" feeling. That's a very interesting perspective. You're suggesting that 'a burnout' is a consequence of series of defeats. Interesting.
WhitneyLand 8y ago
If you go a month without being able to find a bug in an algorithm/problem that you already understand in principle, it seems often a result of not talking to others enough. Not that some smarter person would instantly give you the answer (although if so great), rather the way that the process of explaining the problem out loud and letting someone pick through your thought process can cause the solution, or just new lines of attack, to spontaneously pop into your head. Surely this benefits most people at some point. I heard of a guy who articulates math problems to his dog, and doing so still added value, even though the dog doesn’t tend to probe or challenge his thinking very often. Sometimes when I get stuck I explain problems to my wife (who is technical but specializes outside of CS) for only 15 minutes or so, and on occasion she provides me the solution without saying a word. However I don’t know the mechanism, is there a formal name for the phenomenon? I’d be curious to know how often during the month he had an opportunity to try this approach on his skip lists bug with different people.
- TimJYoung 8y ago
  Ha, it's so funny that you mention this. My wife isn't a Luddite, but she's not a developer, either. I narrate design issues I have with our products to her, and she patiently lets me work through the issue out loud, although I'm not quite sure she would love being associated with a dog in this respect. :-) There's something about saying things out loud that clarifies the muddled mess in our heads. I also find this to be the case when having to teach something to someone.
  - WhitneyLand 8y ago
    Oh dear, please don’t infer any disrespect. I’m sure she is adding much more value than the dog, if for no other reason than you are forced to articulate things more cogently. I suspect it can work in different ways based on the experience/knowledge of the problem solving partner. Maybe your wife or an expert forces more precise thinking, maybe the dog for some people could create a more uninhibited environment, where we can share “dumb” thoughts we wouldn’t want to speak to a person yet could still lead down a productive path. I hope she appreciates her contribution. Seriously listening to someone is a great gift to give in so many contexts.
whataretensors 8y ago
Most open source projects lose money for the authors. There still isn't a good funding model for open source or open research. These tools are invaluable to developers, and open-source 'vaporware' is R&D. We really should figure out a way to compensate open source authors.
bgongfu 8y ago
I spent decades perfecting my code, never got anything worth mentioning done. To me it was important to realize that it's a way to escape reality, to protect the fuzzy bubble of intellectual masturbation. Truth is; if it doesn't work, no one cares; and rightly so. These days I try hard to stick with solving actual problems and continuously improving solutions; writing code like marathons rather than 100m sprints, growing it like a garden rather than constructing cathedrals.
tzakrajs 8y ago
The scrolling on that page was at times not working on my Android device.
needToSay 8y ago
Lol this nigger is banned from Twitter or harassment

109 points by gbrown_ 8y ago

nukeop 8y ago

From the man who brought you "The Case for Non-Binary Genders" last year. No thanks.

tw1010 8y ago
We shouldn't ostracise someone merely for presenting the case for something.
- nukeop 8y ago
  We should, if the something in question is destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good. We don't have to tolerate every possible opinion just because some people are conflict-avoidant.
  - seba_dos1 8y ago
    That's exactly why you are [flagged][dead].
    - nukeop 8y ago
      Ok, and who cares really? Do you think you only have worth if you have many HN points?
      - mijoharas 8y ago
        > We should, if the something in question is destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good. We don't have to tolerate every possible opinion just because some people are conflict-avoidant The point being made by the parent comment to yours is not that you have been fined "HN points", but that your opinions posted are toxic, "destructive, immoral, or contrary to the public good" which is why they have been deleted and flagged, (given what you just said, you should be celebrating this fact, though I assume since the communities views on toxicity differ from your own you will be decrying the censorship of your viewpoint).
  - SpecialistEMT 8y ago
    What's wrong with the topic?
  - dingo_bat 8y ago
    I agree that not all opinions need be accepted. But they do deserve a look. Also, a commit's author should be judged from his code quality, not from his opinion on random issues.
    - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
      > Also, a commit's author should be judged from his code quality, not from his opinion on random issues. You say that, but there's been a number of OS developers that have been ostracised and expelled from communities by something they (for example) tweeted. Contributors are rejected to contribute because they don't conform to a code of conduct. People lose jobs over being called out for jokes at conferences (and over calling out said jokes, both in part thanks to internet armies). So while in theory it should, in practice people will get vetted and judged for their online presence. In other words, the ye olde adage is still valid; don't be identifiable online. If you're an OS developer / contributor with an unpopular opinion, best to keep that part separate from your OS contributor profile. And keep your real name safe.
      - VLM 8y ago
        The oppression is exclusively from one extreme of the political spectrum directed rightward, which triggers anyone believing in fairness or freedom of speech.
    - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
      I hope this comment won't be misconstrued as advocating for censorship: Is it really true that for no combination of position and person, it's a net negative for that person to consider the merits of that position? For example, should a recovering alcoholic consider an argument regarding one particular liquor being better than another?
      - dingo_bat 8y ago
        You're right. Every single opinion need not even be considered either. But people should be allowed to hold it and you shouldn't disadvantage them in an unrelated field because of it. I don't care if my coworker thinks that gay marriage is a sin. It is his right to hold that opinion. If he doesn't let it come in the way of his work it's fine. But that doesn't mean I am asking everybody to consider his viewpoint. If it is absurd enough for you you needn't worry about it.
dang 8y ago
Since you have a history of posting flamebait and personal attacks to Hacker News and we warned you about it before, we've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- nukeop 8y ago
  Ok, I won't argue with that. I don't see any way I could convince you of anything believably, since I'm just some stranger on the internet. Please just do me a favor and delete all the posts I've ever made from this account, thanks.

nartz 8y ago

A 100% out-of-context-single-data-point suggestion: Seems like the author has a lot of great ideas, but would benefit greatly from increased collaboration - getting the proper feedback, morphing ideas from theoretical land into reality, and also benefiting from the mindshare (and energy) of others - even something as simple as getting another pair of eyes to help debug. Most big things are built by teams, not by individuals (even if the contributions are skewed). Every time an open source developer stops working, a star burns out somewhere in the universe.

WhitneyLand 8y ago
@nartz, thank you. I wrote a similar comment below before seeing yours, and now I’m even more curious: How much opportunity did Ticki have for good collaboration, just on that one, huge unresolved bug? How much could it have short circuited that month long drought? I’m not sure exactly how much our thoughts were overlapping, but in case you haven’t heard the name of one particular flavor, @serens response to my comment shows the wikipedia reference to the concept, apparently known to some as “rubber duck debugging”. The WP article centers around debugging, however it seems commonplace in many subjects and problem solving variations. I suspect it’s just as effective at ideation or design stages, or even when purely theoretical creativity is desired, for example in proving a mathematical result.

devgutt 8y ago

> Perfectionism makes me a poor Open Source contributor. It's interesting that the OP ended up on this conclusion, although it would be much much better long-term to take the necessary time to deliver good pieces.

hardwaresofton 8y ago

This is probably the kind of person you don't want to cut ties with open source too often. Good software, from research to implementation takes a huge amount of resources (both people-hours and people to put in those hours), and the kind that measure 20 times before making 1 cut are some of the most important, because they are the type that should be in charge of the types of early design decisions. For every one of these kinds of developers, it seems like there are at least 10 who measure way less and cut way more (myself included in that 10). I do think ticki might find his way back to F/OSS with Haskell or some similarly related ML project, they can offer a good mix of ivory-tower and just enough in-the-weeds implementation to make rigid, type-safe, theoretically sound systems and abstractions... Maybe it was just an issue of picking the right language to pursue the purity he was seeking -- one further away from the mainstream, under less pressure to "get shit done".

jstimpfle 8y ago
In the first place, good software is software that exists. I don't know ticki or his work, but if it is vaporware what he calls vaporware, then there is no way for it to be good software. If ticki reads this: props for the clear words. Honest posts like this are rarely seen. And good luck for your career in mathematics. Though I figure great mathematics is not much different than great software (I'm not talking about glue-coding): It needs to exist. You need to find simple, obviously correct, and useful models to create something that other things can build on. And if you decide to come back later: A clear goal helps separating the essential from the non-essential. Formalism is only a tool, not an end in itself.
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  I don't agree with the notion that software has to be finished to be good (which isn't exactly what you said but the implication seems to be there). Taken literally, software that is unfinished (i.e. unusable) cannot possibly be good, obviously, but software that was been theorized but didn't necessarily exist in finished form until relatively recently is pretty common. If you don't want to make a bundled mess of spaghetti design, theory/play/experimentation that doesn't necessarily turn into a functioning project is crucial, ideas are sometimes reused/refactored into a project that is completed. Maybe if none of his work was actually published at all, then that statement would make sense (since it would literally be impossible to derive value from something that doesn't exist), but he's contributed documentation, schematics, etc, it's vaporware in the sense that it isn't a finished product and may never actually become one since he's not supporting it anymore, but if someone else sees what he's done (ex. https://github.com/redox-os/tfs https://github.com/redox-os/tfs), they might pick it up and finish it. ATM there are 500+ commits to that project, I find it hard to believe that if what he was doing is worth doing that those commits are completely worthless.

josteink 8y ago

Replying to a flagged/deleted comment from "nukeop": > From the man who brought you "The Case for Non-Binary Genders" last year. No thanks. Link for the lazy: https://ticki.github.io/blog/the-case-for-non-binary-genders/ https://ticki.github.io/blog/the-case-for-non-binary-genders... While this comment may not be directly "productive", I think the immediate response to it, and in general response to the topic at hand is rather instructive. It shows a general negativity (on both sides) which is obviously detracting from the positive energy and enthusiasm associated with (and often crucial for) sustainable open-source software projects. For all the good various diversity-initiatives has intended to do, I must admit I've yet to see any proof that these actually work and give the promised results. It's their claim and thus their responsibility to prove. Faced with constant reminders (like this) of how they keep causing toxic debates, which again and again causes people to leave (or avoid joining), it's easy to assume that right now these well intended initiatives, executed as they are, represent a net negative. Let's not make FOSS a matter of gender-identities and diversity, but again focus on the product, the commits, the code and the incremental improvements. Towards reaching a common goal, together. We should all focus on the good things which are uniting instead of letting a select few try to force a divisive agenda top-down upon a audience we know will give a mixed reception. Let's not kill something good with something well-meant, but misguided.

nukeop 8y ago
I don't think there ever was a single person that changed their mind after reading a misguided moralistic sermon. Common sense dictates that the topics of software development and identity politics do not overlap at all, but there are groups that try to, against overwhelming pushback, use one to gain control over the other in bizarre and puzzling ways. Every time somebody forces a "code of conduct" on a project that was doing very well without it, lots of talented developers leave, and, I imagine, an angel cries.
- Majestic121 8y ago
  You're the one forcing identity politics into this thread, by digging up a one year old unrelated article. I actually agree with you when you say that software development and identity politic don't overlap. So please, practice what you preach and stop trying to bring identity politics on an interesting subject about OSS and perfectionism.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

legostormtroopr 8y ago

Who is Ticki? Why is this important?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
solarkraft 8y ago
I don't know them, but the story is pretty significant
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
I think the story is interesting regardless of the author.
twic 8y ago
Ticki was an active member of the Rust community, whose contribution was energetically and cheerfully campaigning for ambitious features. Sometimes perhaps a little too ambitious, but that's a useful kind of person to have in a community. For example, Ticki wrote an early proposal for type-level integers, which everyone knows Rust needs eventually, but hadn't been able to work up a concrete proposal for: https://github.com/ticki/rfcs/blob/pi-types/text/0000-pi-types.md https://github.com/ticki/rfcs/blob/pi-types/text/0000-pi-typ... Outside the core project, Ticki was involved with RedoxOS, an OS written in Rust: https://github.com/redox-os/redox#-ecosystem- https://github.com/redox-os/redox#-ecosystem- Particularly the TFS filesystem: https://github.com/redox-os/tfs https://github.com/redox-os/tfs TFS naver came to fruition, so RedoxOS still runs on its original filesystem, RedoxFS. Why is this important? It isn't, any more so than the other 29 things currently on the front page!

jordigh 8y ago

Anyone know what kind of mathematics Ticki will be doing? Talking about correctness makes me thinks she or he is going to gravitate towards logic and foundations and the sorts of mathematics that computer people usually like. I ask because as someone who works with computers and doesn't prefer computery mathematics, I'm always looking for a kindred spirit.

devnonymous 8y ago

Reading the comments here one would not think that the post is about someone who 1. Is announcing withdrawal from (active) FOSS, to focus full time on mathematics 2. Who also think they are not the best suited for contributing to Rust because they have a theoretical bent and aim for getting things right rather than simple or working... And acknowledge that this might be a limitation 3. Would like others to take over their projects Rather the comments here lead you to think this is some sort of a negative disgruntled rant. /Smh

DoreenMichele 8y ago

There is a couple of reasons for my choice. My main reason is that I have chosen to pursue a career in mathematics research. This is an extremely tough field and with this decision, I have no way of continuing my involvement in these very time consuming projects. When I was a military wife, I did a lot of volunteer work. I had time on my hands, but not enough to pursue a serious career, and I didn't have a pressing need for earned income because my husband's career provided adequately for the family. Some military wives seem to have a third baby about the time the second one starts kindergarten or first grade. I volunteered. It kept me occupied and met some of my needs on a schedule I could sustain. My kids grew up and I got divorced. My time constraints went down and my need for money went up. I began investing more time and effort in developing a career and income, less in doing volunteer work. I think that is kind of the norm. People do this sort of thing when they have some time on their hands and volunteer work meets some need that isn't being met some other way in their life. Their life changes, they move on. I wish more goodbyes were clearer about that. These types of posts are very often a rant about the rest of the world.

daenz 8y ago

This reads me like the lowest part of a burnout episode. I don't mean to trivialize the author's experience...I'm sure their experience and what they are describing is very real. But when you're experiencing a defeat (even a defeat not caused by a single specific event), it can compound the whole "what am I doing with my life" feeling. I hope the author gets back into open source though eventually. We need people who can bring levels of correctness that mathematics students tend to pursue. Even if its complicated, it can push the artform forward, and everyone else will adapt.

mycomments2017 8y ago
> But when you're experiencing a defeat (even a defeat not caused by a single specific event), it can compound the whole "what am I doing with my life" feeling. That's a very interesting perspective. You're suggesting that 'a burnout' is a consequence of series of defeats. Interesting.

WhitneyLand 8y ago

If you go a month without being able to find a bug in an algorithm/problem that you already understand in principle, it seems often a result of not talking to others enough. Not that some smarter person would instantly give you the answer (although if so great), rather the way that the process of explaining the problem out loud and letting someone pick through your thought process can cause the solution, or just new lines of attack, to spontaneously pop into your head. Surely this benefits most people at some point. I heard of a guy who articulates math problems to his dog, and doing so still added value, even though the dog doesn’t tend to probe or challenge his thinking very often. Sometimes when I get stuck I explain problems to my wife (who is technical but specializes outside of CS) for only 15 minutes or so, and on occasion she provides me the solution without saying a word. However I don’t know the mechanism, is there a formal name for the phenomenon? I’d be curious to know how often during the month he had an opportunity to try this approach on his skip lists bug with different people.

TimJYoung 8y ago
Ha, it's so funny that you mention this. My wife isn't a Luddite, but she's not a developer, either. I narrate design issues I have with our products to her, and she patiently lets me work through the issue out loud, although I'm not quite sure she would love being associated with a dog in this respect. :-) There's something about saying things out loud that clarifies the muddled mess in our heads. I also find this to be the case when having to teach something to someone.
- WhitneyLand 8y ago
  Oh dear, please don’t infer any disrespect. I’m sure she is adding much more value than the dog, if for no other reason than you are forced to articulate things more cogently. I suspect it can work in different ways based on the experience/knowledge of the problem solving partner. Maybe your wife or an expert forces more precise thinking, maybe the dog for some people could create a more uninhibited environment, where we can share “dumb” thoughts we wouldn’t want to speak to a person yet could still lead down a productive path. I hope she appreciates her contribution. Seriously listening to someone is a great gift to give in so many contexts.

whataretensors 8y ago

Most open source projects lose money for the authors. There still isn't a good funding model for open source or open research. These tools are invaluable to developers, and open-source 'vaporware' is R&D. We really should figure out a way to compensate open source authors.

bgongfu 8y ago

I spent decades perfecting my code, never got anything worth mentioning done. To me it was important to realize that it's a way to escape reality, to protect the fuzzy bubble of intellectual masturbation. Truth is; if it doesn't work, no one cares; and rightly so. These days I try hard to stick with solving actual problems and continuously improving solutions; writing code like marathons rather than 100m sprints, growing it like a garden rather than constructing cathedrals.

tzakrajs 8y ago

The scrolling on that page was at times not working on my Android device.

needToSay 8y ago

Lol this nigger is banned from Twitter or harassment