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I was on this call. It was extremely cringey/embarrassing to hear Elon dismiss valid questions. At the same time, it was fantastic to see a young, smart, retai
by mephitix 8y ago
I was on this call. It was extremely cringey/embarrassing to hear Elon dismiss valid questions.
At the same time, it was fantastic to see a young, smart, retail investor (Gali from Hyperchange) get to ask so many questions directly to the leadership team. I thought before the call that Gali would get to ask only one question, like the other analysts. He was able to ask almost 10!
It was surreal. I was left feeling that the team overall did a great thing by allowing Gali but wished that Elon didn’t insult the institutional investors by (at least so harshly) dismissing valid questions.
- danso 8y agoLetting one person ask 10 questions means less time for other investors to ask their own individual questions.
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- mephitix 8y agoThis is true, but retail investors don’t typically interact at this level. At the beginning of the call Elon said that they would let the earnings call run until they were out of questions. That clearly didn’t happen...
- gr3yh47 8y agoTo be fair (edit: figuratively, to state a favorable viewpoint on Elon's decisiont to give more time to one person) he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers. I think Elon might have done well to be less brusque with the more run of the mill questions but I really enjoyed listing to the long exchange there
- devmunchies 8y ago> To be fair he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes.
- gr3yh47 8y ago>thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes. fair point ;)
- hcknwscommenter 8y ago> he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers. In the context of an investor call, which are supposed to convey an investment thesis for the company, I cannot agree. The questions were too pie-in-the-sky to have any bearing on whether TSLA equity/debt/or hybrid have an attractive relative value. It seemed to me that Elon was simply running out the clock.
- xkjkls 8y agoIt's a filibuster.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago"Sacconaghi pressed ahead with another query about Tesla lowering its 2018 capital expenditure projection to $3 billion, from $3.4 billion. Ahuja said the carmaker would spend less by simplifying its approach to automation and curtailing infrastructure outlays. 'And so where specifically will you be in terms of capital requirements?' Sacconaghi said. 'Excuse me. Next. Next,' Musk said to the call operator. 'Boring, bonehead questions are not cool. Next?'" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-03/elon-musk-s-most-dumbfounding-moments-on-tesla-s-earnings-call https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-03/elon-musk...
- imdsm 8y agoTo be fair, he's not entirely wrong. I guess people just don't expect this type of response. But then, acting within the confines of normality isn't really the trait that may bring the dawn of a new era of humanity. Interestingly though, markets are reaction to this response emotionally.
- Semirhage 8y agoBut then, acting within the confines of normality isn't really the trait that may bring the dawn of a new era of humanity. Truly, this sounds divorced from the reality of anything Elon Musk is involved in. He’s making electric cars, rockets, and solar panels, not fusion power or immortality pills. Let’s be realistic! I think it’s important to separate what he actually does from what you desperately hope he may someday do.
- trophycase 8y agoIf colonizing a new planet isn't a new era of humanity, I'm not sure what is...
- s_kilk 8y agoHe hasn't colonised a new planet, and frankly my wager is that he never will.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y agoYeah but his questions weren't really that great. The two questions from analysts he skipped before throwing it to the youtube guy were tough questions asking about specific details that Elon obviously didn't want to answer. Youtube guys questions were softer which is why Elon stayed with him for so long. I have to say I think letting someone like Gali ask questions at all is pretty bad, it specifically degrades what these calls are for. It's basically a filibuster.
- ghostbrainalpha 8y agoSo Musk turned a Conference Call that people want to be like a trial... into a commercial for Tesla. You may not like it as a speculator of the stock, but it might be more in line with his and Telsa's long term interest.
- vkou 8y ago> You may not like it as a speculator of the stock Or, you know, an owner of the stock with a long position. Someone who cares that the company is a viable business. > but it might be more in line with his and Telsa's long term interest. His long-term interests don't matter. It's a public company. His shareholders' long term interests are what's important - his job is to execute on them. If he can't do that, he shouldn't have taken the company public. He works for these investors, not the other way around.
- mephitix 8y agoI disagree - I thought the questions were good. I wish both sides were able to answer questions, as Elon had promised in the beginning of the call! (He said something along the lines of, we want extra time for Q&A, will keep the call running until there are no more questions) Having a retail investor at the table is a great thing for Tesla shareholders, IMO because so much of the public is interested in the company. I think the split between retail/institutional is 50/50 (I may be wrong on this). Here are some interesting things that came out during Gali's questions: - Tesla network/autopilot: autopilot safety data on quarterly basis. Timeline of network depends on regulators. A lot of autopilot crashes are from experienced drivers. - More info on getting towards level 5 autonomy (hardware is going to be enough, but needs more powerful computers) - Model Y production - not starting until 2020 - Supercharging network (V3): compared to Porsche’s 350kw supercharger. Tesla's main goal is to increase range. - Interested in having supercharger network partner with another auto maker - Tesla Semi - building out batteries/renewable energy to lower cost - Nikola lawsuit - Tesla Energy: prioritize power wall backlog now. Gigawatt/hour project coming out soon. How it compares to competition - Tesla thanking China - possibly building Gigafactory in China
- debt 8y agoYeah I concur. The kind of numbers they're talking about are no joke. Investors immediately responded to Elon's hubris in kind by severely punishing the stock. Seems the joke is on Musk.
- greglindahl 8y agoHow did you figure out that the reason the stock fell was this particular one? (Edit: "Elon's hubris" in particular) Stock programs have all kinds of explanations they give out as to why a stock moves. Usually, it's a guess.
- dragontamer 8y ago> How did you figure out that the reason the stock fell was this particular one? https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iYhgfoDa6lZA/v2/-1x-1.png https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iYhgfoDa6lZ... Correlation =/= causation. But... its reasonable to see the connection here.
- mephitix 8y agoI had the Google stock chart open while the call was running. It was pretty much night and day. Before the call, it was up by about 0.25%. Then after market, during the call it was hovering between 1% and -1% - then immediately after the dismissal it started dropping quickly.
- jacquesm 8y agoSure, but if the stock starts dropping during an earnings call in after hours trading and drops a whopping 5%+ at the opening of the next session then it is a reasonable assumption that something during the earnings call triggered the sell-off. And they were doing ok right up to the point where Elon stopped answering investors questions.
- arkis22 8y agoA little more context from the WSJ article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-elon-musk-turns-conference-call-into-sparring-session-1525339803 https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-elon-musk-turns-conferen...) >“We’re going to go to YouTube, sorry. These questions are so dry. They’re killing me.” He directed the operator to take questions from Tesla investor Galileo Russell, whose HyperChange TV YouTube channel features a video titled, “Why I Bought Tesla Today at $255/Share.” >Mr. Russell, who had campaigned to get on the call usually reserved for analysts, got more than 20 minutes from Mr. Musk. The first of his dozen or so questions: When will Tesla launch its own network of driverless cars? >“Thank you for an interesting question,” Mr. Musk replied. It's especially cringey because if Musk was honest about that interesting question he would say he has no idea and should really be focusing on ramping up production. Instead it's a softball question that lets Musk proselytize on the radical world changing work that Tesla is doing...
- gfody 8y agoIn the grand scheme of things figuring out how to make model3's faster than they can sell them is a boring problem for Musk and I could imagine how frustrating it must be to have all the banks freaking out as if they're going to miss a fleeting opportunity to sell a bunch of cars. It's like when Nikola Tesla was trying to build worldwide wireless telegraphy but J.P. Morgan just wanted him to make fluorescent lights. Hopefully things go better for Elon than they did for Nikola.
- TAForObvReasons 8y agoIt may be a "boring" problem, but people aren't just paying for a reservation for nothing, ultimately they are expecting a car. And if there's no indication that they can meet the promises, that's a problem and he shouldn't be promising or giving wild production estimates in the first place. Unless you believe that Musk is selling the ability for people to say they have a reservation. In which case there's no point to even bother building the cars in the first place.
- gfody 8y ago
- plint 8y agoThere was a petition of sorts on twitter to get Hyperchange on to the conference call. I think Elon was trying to segue with a plug to these guys because they aren't the regulars. I'm asking seriously though, what would he stand to gain from hiding info about capex? Or do you think the reaction from investors is due to his attitude or signs of stress/things going wrong internally?
- YurtleTheTurtle 8y agoHe doesn't want to admit they company will need to raise money later this year.
- mephitix 8y agoHe actually addressed capital raise on the call and it was pretty clear when he kept saying that they wouldn't need or want a capital raise
- MagnumOpus 8y agoYes, but that is the sort of "boring" detail that he routinely lies about (as are ramp-up schedules, delivery amounts, revenues and that sort of boorish stuff only Wall Street nerds care about)
- hcknwscommenter 8y agoYes, but when institutional investors pointed out holes in his explanation about how you could go from burning 1B a quarter with 3B on hand and not need a capital raise, they got "boring" and "next."
- dragonwriter 8y ago> He actually addressed capital raise on the call and it was pretty clear when he kept saying that they wouldn't need or want a capital raise Yes, his forward looking statement was clear, just as Tesla's repeatedly-missed production projections have been clear. OTOH, when your statements about the future keep turning out to be wrong, it's not surprising that people want more than your conclusions but also want supporting evidence that those conclusions are grounded in reality.
- s2g 8y agoIt was fantastic to watch him use Gali as a PR tool while he dodged real questions?
- mephitix 8y agoPerspective. Listening to a retail investor who never gets a seat at the table get to ask so many questions was a good thing - for Gali. I can be cynical too and look at it as a PR stunt - in many ways it was given that he allowed Gali to ask almost 10 questions - but at the end of the day I was thinking - good for that guy.
- nodesocket 8y agoDisagree about it being embarrassing and cringey. I appreciate his no-bs and no-fluff candor. Elon called out the press for writing misleading articles to generate clicks. He went as far as calling it irresponsible and dangerous. He also called out day-traders, saying of you can't handle volatility then sell your stock. "I am not here to convince you to buy Tesla stock." You can listen to the call at https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/nwvzygvo https://edge.media-server.com/m6/p/nwvzygvo
- 3pt14159 8y agoYeah I agree with you nodesocket. Musk comes off as focusing on the right things, not getting bogged down by a x% difference on capital outlay here or there.
- matwood 8y ago> not getting bogged down by a x% difference on capital outlay here or there. People would not be after him so much if he hadn't missed almost every prediction he's made. The company is quickly approaching a cliff that the Musk cheerleaders cannot simply cheer him across. Timelines really start to matter when your runway is running out.
- erikpukinskis 8y agoWhy do they keep asking him? It seems stupid. He can tell you very clearly what will do (and he does it). He obviously can’t predict the timeline. Either it’s impossible to predict, or Elon can’t do it. Either way continuing to expect accurate predictions from him is the definition of insanity.
- 3pt14159 8y agoThere is no fast approaching cliff or any such nonsense. Tesla's market cap is $50B. They can release stock and dilute current shareholders if they need to. Talking about whether it is a $4.4B capital outlay or $4.0B capital outlay doesn't matter. What matters for Tesla is making sure that their core offering doesn't get overshadowed by an established automotive manufacturer before they can scale. What matters for Tesla is that petrol prices don't plummet due to some new unforeseen technology of economic downturn. What matters for Tesla is that their cars wear reliably so they don't tarnish their reputation.
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- pooya13 8y agoIf an investor's decision to buy or sell a stock is based on how "cringey" a conference call is and not the numbers then I think they are in the wrong business. I think Elon did the right thing. It would be better for Tesla in the long term if the day traders sell their stocks. Tesla fans such as myself would love to pick up some stocks at low prices and because we buy into the vision we will not sell it anytime soon which brings more stability to the stock.
- pooya13 8y agoTo those who are down voting my comment without providing a rebuttal: https://www.barrons.com/articles/family-office-leaders-are-eager-for-insights-1525213404 https://www.barrons.com/articles/family-office-leaders-are-e...
- Retric 8y ago7% drop does not really equate to Tesla Plunges IMO. Was this bad enough that you wanted to sell?
- refurb 8y agoReally? They beat earnings estimates, so I would assumed the stock would have gone up, at least by a few percentage points. I would say a 10% drop in a stock over a few hours is "plunging".
- Retric 8y agoI hear plunge and I think time to by, but here are prices from last 30 days: 286.94 + 305.72 - 289.66 + 304.70 - 294.08 + 300.00 - 291.21 + 300.08 - 280.69 + 301.15 - 284.45 I see numbers above the recent peak, and below the current low.
- supergirl 8y agomusk is cringey in general