16 ms·

Startup School Beijing

153 points by tvvocold 8y ago

walrus01 8y ago
New Pied Piper?
- kewafb14 8y ago
  Hah that's what crossed my mind too :)
  - mirgj 8y ago
    there is already something similar [1] and its called TerarkDB [1] and it gains the interest of Alibaba already. [1] https://www.techinasia.com/real-pied-piper-silicon-valley https://www.techinasia.com/real-pied-piper-silicon-valley [2] http://www.terark.com/ http://www.terark.com/
middle1 8y ago
When will original online Startup School start this year? Who knows?
- ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
  Are you talking about this? https://www.startupschool.org/ https://www.startupschool.org/ I don't understand if this is something online or not, it mentions attending group office hours.
  - middle1 8y ago
    Yes, I was meaning that one.
  - sandslash 8y ago
    It's all completely virtual. All "attendance" in the course is done online, including group office hours.
- sandslash 8y ago
  The Startup School online course will start in August. We'll make an announcement soon!
chronic289 8y ago
US and Europe are fucked
- staticelf 8y ago
  Why lol?
  - zfdrdg 8y ago
    Not sure what the parent comment meant but maybe because software jobs will start to move to lower earning locations. I've been wondering about this. Manufacturing has largely moved off shore over the last 40 years but software seems much easier to move. Could the whole industry disappear from the first world at a much faster rate?
    - shaki-dora 8y ago
      > Could the whole industry disappear from the first world at a much faster rate? No. Because any country dominating the software industry will, almost by defintion, be “first world”.
      - gaius 8y ago
        That is not what first world means.
        shaki-dora 8y ago
        True. It means “white”. Which is why it’s largely gone out of fashion.
        gaius 8y ago
        Not really. In the days of the Cold War there was the “third world” as in “third party”, that is any country who wasn’t in either NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Later on people came to use “first world” to mean the West which would make the former Soviet countries the second world. And the third world is still... every other country.
b6 8y ago
I'm not optimistic about this at all. The same metrics for success just don't apply in China. All the elements necessary for success in the US could be there, but in China the startup may get red-taped and legislated out of existence in favor of a basically identical entity with better connections to the Satanic squid in charge of the country. I predict a rapid demise for this project, sorry to say. Talented Chinese entrepreneurs, please make your way out of the country as soon as you can.
- neolefty 8y ago
  Having spent 5 years there, I have to say it's not a uniform hellscape, to say the least. There are millions of potential Chinese entrepreneurs, idealistic and talented, who deserve to have their efforts catalyzed. That's the way forward. If you want a new generation of leaders and a more egalitarian culture, you are not alone, and I'm super happy to see YC decide to help build it.
baybal2 8y ago
Out of all places? Why??? And... >Saturday, May 19, 2018 (5 月19 日，周六) >Tsinghua University （清华大学) Beijing, China （中国北京) This is just... they could've just went for the central committee party school if they wanted to get high profile handshakes that much
- molteanu 8y ago
  >Out of all places? Why??? "Since China is the fastest growing tech ecosystem in the world and a massive center of new innovations - we want to meet more founders from China!"
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
greatabel 8y ago
They need compete with www.sinovationventures.com.'Sinovation Ventures' has quite a few similarities to YC, for example:The founders like to support each other, etc
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Kai Fu’s (famous for the ballmer chair) innovation works has been around forever, it’s not like China is lacking for YC-style tech incubators. However, they are all Chinese owned and managed without direct connections to SV.
  - contingencies 8y ago
    There is HAX in Shenzhen, but it's focused on pre-crowdfunded consumer hardware projects. However, at their last building (they moved around 2016/2017) the space apparently interleaved the foreign cohort with a domestic intake they never talk about (to my knowledge) in foreign media. https://hax.co/ https://hax.co/ There are quite a few in Hong Kong as well. https://medium.com/whub/hong-kong-accelerator-and-incubator-programmes-you-need-to-know-568590b836c8 https://medium.com/whub/hong-kong-accelerator-and-incubator-...
SuperNinKenDo 8y ago
I'm disappointed to know that YC has drank the cool-aid on China. Once you invest significantly in China, you quickly find yourselves beholden to the whims of the CCP. And for what? Such privileges as building their dystopian techno-autocracy for them? I don't see any signs in this statement that you are going into this with your eyes open to either the difficulties this will cause down the line, nor the morally "questionable" things you will all be a part of building now. Of course, none of that will be in there, because you all already know that to say anything untoward on the matter would break the ice right out from under your feet. And of course, that's all if you're actually "successful", unlikely given the CCP will prefer something more malleable than even the likes of Zuckerberg are willing to be. I foresee a rapid demise to this project, indeed, I pray for it, as the alternative, you guys actually succeeding, would be painful to watch given what it will involve.
- opportune 8y ago
  Agreed, investing in China is the "invading Russia" of the tech world. Yes, China is a huge market and a rapidly growing economy, which makes investing there an extremely appetizing prospect. However, it seems very difficult for non-chinese to be able to hold onto their investments in China without their business being ripped off (e.g. having the business model copied by a more Chinese company that gets favorable government treatment and takes over the nascent market), not to mention the political uncertainty of having to deal with / win the favor of arbitrary officials in the Chinese government that may have interests conflicting with your own. And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling - suppose you create a wildly successful and helpful service for Chinese people that involves users' geographic data, private messages between individuals, or financial transactions. You won't get a say in turning over that data to authorities for any and every reason that they have for wanting it. Are you willing to actively participate in corruption and the quashing of political dissent for money?
  - DanielBMarkham 8y ago
    "And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling..." This is the thing I don't understand. Ten years ago, you could make a case that simply by making stuff people want, the world would become more connected, all sorts of goodness will happen. You can no longer make that case. People are not idiots. They see both the good and bad that tech has brought. Technology companies are ethically responsible for what their tools end up doing. And if they can't be bothered to develop their own ethics, the rest of us are going to have to develop some for them. I must be missing something. YC is a really smart bunch of guys. Certainly they know what the hell they're getting into.
fisheuler 8y ago
北京欢迎你。
erikb 8y ago
This will fail so much. If you ever had anything to do with China you know there's no path in. Especially under Xi. Even in the old lang sine, when China was (more) open to the West it was still hard. Think about getting serious stuff stolen, threatened by people with sticks etc. Then you sue someone and the judge simply decides in favor of the Chinese party, no matter what they did. The only option I can see is if you have privately loads of money and then marry a strong business family in China. Then through your Chinese wife you can achieve something.
- forkerenok 8y ago
  I would assume YC has plenty of "wives" and "husbands" (read network connections) in China to vouch for them in front of CCP leaders. Edit: Besides, regardless of connections, I think, the deal where YC provides easy U.S. market entry for Chinese startups for a share in the company is pretty attractive to both sides.
  - erikb 8y ago
    Yes, that's what they think if they offer that. And my additional point was that what westerners consider "network connections" you can't have with Chinese people if you are not of Chinese heritage nor married to a Chinese wife. Even if you are a woman and married to a Chinese husband it might not be enough, because he won't listen to you in business related issues. Also hiring Chinese consultants to take care of the relationship won't work, because when the fighting starts they will side at least secretly with the Chinese other party. Also one needs to consider that culture is not just weird behavior. Through the back and forth of each appropriate reaction a Chinese person can achieve something with other Chinese people, despite him being also very frustrated with how the Chinese culture works. Because you don't know the intuitive right reaction you cannot get to that point where you can finally get some honest/valuable response. It can't be learned from a book. You need to grow up with this, because even the Chinese people don't really understand why it works.
    - justicezyx 8y ago
      > if you are not of Chinese heritage nor married to a Chinese wife OK, I think you assume there is no case of Chinese men and non-Chinese women marriage, or same-gender marriage. That appears rather subtle but offensive bias.
jlg23 8y ago
I am amazed by the negativity in the comments. China is a very specific environment with its own rules - just like the US or Europe. There you need to maintain good relations with the party, in the western world it is government officials (preferably those who are not voted into office and thus stick around). Entering such a new, different playing field should tickle every entrepreneur's nerves. Edit: How we fail, esp. in the fb- and now Google debate, that most of the tech we develop is dual-use and can be turned against us in an instant, escapes me.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Endy 8y ago
Thank you so much for displaying that YC has taken a step toward accepting China's desires to rule the world and a step away from supporting free and open cultural discourse. I think I'm going to be avoiding HN for a while, so that I can avoid the pro-Chinese propaganda and policy which is likely to result from this move.
baby 8y ago
This is awesome. I’ve been wondering how hard it is to partner up, give trainings or consult in China. Without many english speakers there it seems that the Chinese language is a pre requisite but it might be getting better. If anyone has experience to share I’d be interested. I’m guessing this kind of ventures might be easy sales to universities like Tsing Hua.
- jk2323 8y ago
  What do you have? What do you want?
  - baby 8y ago
    Oh, I've been giving applied crypto trainings at Black Hat and different venues. I was wondering if I could train or give classes in China, or collaborate or do security consulting for companies there.
tgb29 8y ago
I have the priveledge of being around Chinese students who are studying in the US. Two comments I've heard recently: 'Doing research in China is the dream' 'I'll move back to China after I graduate; there's more opportinuty for startups there.'
- Matticus_Rex 8y ago
  I've had the dubious privilege of being around many college students, and in that experience the fact that they say something is true about markets or academia has very little relationship to whether it is actually true.
gaius 8y ago
How does this square with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918480 ?
- neolefty 8y ago
  BTW, that's a link to a discussion of the NYTimes article "Wanted at Chinese Startups: Attractive Women to Ease Coders’ Stress". Likewise, isn't Hollywood the place with Harvey Weinstein? Must be purely evil. No, China is big and intellectually diverse. Many young idealists who deserve to be catalyzed. Source: Lived there 2011-2016.
  - coupdejarnac 8y ago
    Most people commenting on these China posts have a superficial, at best, understanding of China.
Dowwie 8y ago
Of all the provinces, why Beijing?
- baybal2 8y ago
  >Of all the provinces, why Beijing? Because this guy lives there > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Xi_Jinping_March_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Xi_Jinpi...
- jk2323 8y ago
  Because Beijing is the best city in China. Shanghai is for people who don't like China. By the way, never fuck with anyone with money in Shanghai. There is always somebody with more money than you. Never fuck with anyone with power in Bejing....
philippz 8y ago
I don't find Beijing to be the best place to start something like that. I'd rather prefer Shanghai which provides a much better ecosystem and access to capital than Beijing.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Shenzhen is the tech place to be in China. But if you want to make the government happy, you got to be near them in Beijing, so a lot of tech happens there also.
  - mirgj 8y ago
    Is true, but Shenzhen is culturally very different from Beijing and so is Shanghai. Shenzhen is a new city and tech stuff are there because of the influence of Guangzhou as production hub and HK as facilitator for access to the west. Beijing is more, let me say it, artistic. Is much more vibrant, culturally, than any other city in China. This kind of mix that you can find in New Work, Berlin or London also it brings innovation. So I don't think is meant to make the government "happy". Many Chinese tech company started in Beijing form many reasons: education, capital access, culture and so on. To give you an example: Mobike was founder by an ex journalist
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      Many tech companies started in Beijing with obvious government boosts. There is also the major research universities (PKU and Qinghua at the top, many more at tiers just under). However, Beijing is also famous for government meddling and Black Audi-style privileged that is lacking in SZ and SH. Take traffic for example, it is much saner in SH and SZ because the police can actually enforce the rules, whereas in BJ you get a asense they have given up because they feel like everyone is an official or is connected to one. It is a weird city even by Chinese standards.
      - mirgj 8y ago
        I don't have nothing to support this thesis. I just shared my pure observation, after living there for a while, I notice it was a way more dynamic compared to the other 'cold' Chinese cities. Yet I think my message didn't pass through since I got downvoted
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
How does this work since foreigners are still not allowed to have equity in Chinese startups? Is YC getting an exemption from the government, or are they holding it in a Chinese incorporated company?
- contingencies 8y ago
  This is not my experience, owning one and having owned another. Foreigners can own outright or have a stake in multiple types of organizations, either directly or indirectly, though not all (certain protected sensitive industries such as media, finance, etc.). I suppose this is perhaps a misconception based upon some kind of isolated incidence in which a domestic Chinese registered company had issues writing a foreign investor as a direct shareholder. I am certain this can be done but wouldn't be surprised if it may require alteration of the registration category of the company or the reformation of a new entity owing to the ancient (but improving!) corporate registration system which was geared toward early large foreign industrial investments which came with substantial government shepherding. I seriously doubt the assumed case that caused this misconception is some kind of conniving attempt at ineffective protectionism - far more likely just the wee end of inertia stemming from old-school socialist bureaucracy.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    This is simply not true. Many foreigners have been scammed by this, working for a Chinese startup on the promise of equity, and then being eventually told it is impossible because the government won’t allow it. See: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/09/the-china-stock-option-scam.html https://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/09/the-china-stock-option-.... If you are a foreigner working for a domestic startup, you simply aren’t allowed to have equity. If the company is already listed or is a foreign company, then no problem, otherwise it simply isn’t allowed.
    - baybal2 8y ago
      Yes, no company can offer options if they are not public, without any exceptions as I know. Any promise of an option through a proxy subsidiary, variable interest entity for a non listed company is not legal under the republic's law. On other hand, a right-away stock transfer is fully legit. If they sell a part of the stock to a listing aggregation vessel, you can have a part of this vessel's share. Though, I keep myself a kilometer away from any financial scheme in China, and advise you do the same.
contingencies 8y ago
Great timing! Right in line with our Series A. Happy to meet any HN'ers! Email in profile.
Presquare 8y ago
Very exciting news! I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. My biggest problem with Silicon Valley is its ideological uniformity and the increasing willingness to use their companies/products as vehicles to push their ideologies. China would be in an excellent position to address the part of the Western market that is increasingly alienated by this push. They can build SV tech clones for the local market, and then expand to the global market by offering ideologically more neutral (from Western perspective) alternatives to SV tech. Chinese startups will have their own flaws, but at least we will have a choice.
- seawlf 8y ago
  >ideologically more neutral I hardly feel like the global market will accept Chinese alternatives as being "ideologically neutral" in any sense of the phrase.
- benjaminsuch 8y ago
  I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. Why would you want that? As long as the chinese goverment prevent foreign companies to buy chinese companies no one should be happy about chinese startups going global. The chinese goverment is highly corrupt and only supports actions which benefits the chinese. That's why there are so many "joint ventures".
  - ObnoxiousProxy 8y ago
    I agree with the corrupt part, but it's interesting that you say "the chinese government...only supports actions which benefits the chinese" as if it's a horrible thing. Every government does what is best for their country... Being upset about it is like getting mad at fire for being hot.
- ribfeast 8y ago
  What ideologies do you mean exactly?
- ng12 8y ago
  I'm deeply confused what "ideological diversity" Chinese companies will offer. How much of the Western market is really pining for that autocratic, pro-censorship touch?
indescions_2018 8y ago
Will there be a livestream? Would be a great opportunity to try out instantaneous real-time audio and video translation in english, chinese and japanese ;) Baidu Shows Off Its Instant Pocket Translator https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610623/baidu-shows-off-its-instant-pocket-translator/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610623/baidu-shows-off-it...
polmoya 8y ago
test
auganov 8y ago
To people debating whether China are the good guys or not - hundreds of thousands Falun Dafa practicioners are locked up in Chinese concentration camps. Thousands have died of torture. Many more are suffering it everyday. China is ruled by a cruel evil regime. No question about it. You won't hear people involved with China talk about it. You won't be allowed into China if you do.
- eksemplar 8y ago
  America has been making children afraid of blue skies with its murder drones for the past 15 years. If evil was an obstacle we wouldn’t be able to use American tech either. I’m not a fan of China and I’m certainly weary of their government spying through their tech, but I’m not really a fan of the NSA being able to read my emails either. Obviously America is the lesser evil, and it’s unfortunate that power is shifting to China, but maybe there will be some healthy lessons in American tech when you start to feel the abuse you’ve put your friends through. Probably not though.
  - auganov 8y ago
    How exactly are uninteded civil casualties in military operations comparable to systemic and deliberate jailing and killing of innocent people? This is very low grade whataboutism.
    - typon 8y ago
      "uninteded civil casualties" This is how Americans justify destroying three countries (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and millions of lives.
- logicallee 8y ago
  >You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that specifically you, auganov, even if this profile is under your real name, would be allowed into China without any issue. (Despite what you've just written.) The standard I've heard said is that "you wouldn't be able to stand in Tiananman square with a 'Free Tibet' sign". To those of us in the free world, that's a ridiculously stifling standard. You can stand in Washington or Times Square with a sign reading whatever you want, 'it's a free country'. China, obviously, isn't. You can't use the standard "hey, it's a free country" because it's not. But this does not extend to your speech outside of China. Trying to bring your free speech into China seems (to me), on a practical level, like trying to bring your heroin, cocaine, and guns in your carry-on to America. Can't do that (and there would be serious consequences.) But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life. I wouldn't ever say any of those things if I'm in China, even in English, even on an international forum, because I would have checked my free speech at the border. On a practical level state oppression is a huge private business. When you're in China you're not free, even in your mundane online speech, such as in private messages in wechat. People pay attention to watching what they say, on an everyday level. But to return to my point, it doesn't mean you wouldn't be allowed in China if you expressed your thoughts previously in the free world. EDIT: I forgot to mention, I've heard an exception for journalists, in the sense that their previous speech is examined more closely, but I don't know if they're refused entry or just watched more closely once there.
sandGorgon 8y ago
India drives the most number of applications to YC after the USA. I wonder why China was chosen over India.
- dbuder 8y ago
  Access to the Chinese market is more valuable and more difficult.
notbeevil 8y ago
shame on HN.
ausjke 8y ago
you go china, you listen to CCP, then you probably will make some money by trading away your soul. if you want to have freedom of speech there somehow, you're out immediately, the great firewall is there for a reason.
exabrial 8y ago
Interesting... I'll be in Bejing these dates, I may stop in!
pnw_hazor 8y ago
How will this impact my social credit score? Every day China is becoming even more of a nightmare dystopia, so of course YC will dive in headfirst.
zwaps 8y ago
A country where if you disagree with any policy on social media, your kids literally can't go to school, you can't fly and you can't buy a house. Sure, I'll invest right away!
jpincheira 8y ago
to any of the organizers... is it possible to attend to the talks even though I'm starting a company based off -at the moment- Vietnam?

153 points by tvvocold 8y ago

walrus01 8y ago

New Pied Piper?

kewafb14 8y ago
Hah that's what crossed my mind too :)
- mirgj 8y ago
  there is already something similar [1] and its called TerarkDB [1] and it gains the interest of Alibaba already. [1] https://www.techinasia.com/real-pied-piper-silicon-valley https://www.techinasia.com/real-pied-piper-silicon-valley [2] http://www.terark.com/ http://www.terark.com/

middle1 8y ago

When will original online Startup School start this year? Who knows?

ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
Are you talking about this? https://www.startupschool.org/ https://www.startupschool.org/ I don't understand if this is something online or not, it mentions attending group office hours.
- middle1 8y ago
  Yes, I was meaning that one.
- sandslash 8y ago
  It's all completely virtual. All "attendance" in the course is done online, including group office hours.
sandslash 8y ago
The Startup School online course will start in August. We'll make an announcement soon!

chronic289 8y ago

US and Europe are fucked

staticelf 8y ago
Why lol?
- zfdrdg 8y ago
  Not sure what the parent comment meant but maybe because software jobs will start to move to lower earning locations. I've been wondering about this. Manufacturing has largely moved off shore over the last 40 years but software seems much easier to move. Could the whole industry disappear from the first world at a much faster rate?
  - shaki-dora 8y ago
    > Could the whole industry disappear from the first world at a much faster rate? No. Because any country dominating the software industry will, almost by defintion, be “first world”.
    - gaius 8y ago
      That is not what first world means.
      - shaki-dora 8y ago
        True. It means “white”. Which is why it’s largely gone out of fashion.
        gaius 8y ago
        Not really. In the days of the Cold War there was the “third world” as in “third party”, that is any country who wasn’t in either NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Later on people came to use “first world” to mean the West which would make the former Soviet countries the second world. And the third world is still... every other country.

b6 8y ago

I'm not optimistic about this at all. The same metrics for success just don't apply in China. All the elements necessary for success in the US could be there, but in China the startup may get red-taped and legislated out of existence in favor of a basically identical entity with better connections to the Satanic squid in charge of the country. I predict a rapid demise for this project, sorry to say. Talented Chinese entrepreneurs, please make your way out of the country as soon as you can.

neolefty 8y ago
Having spent 5 years there, I have to say it's not a uniform hellscape, to say the least. There are millions of potential Chinese entrepreneurs, idealistic and talented, who deserve to have their efforts catalyzed. That's the way forward. If you want a new generation of leaders and a more egalitarian culture, you are not alone, and I'm super happy to see YC decide to help build it.

baybal2 8y ago

Out of all places? Why??? And... >Saturday, May 19, 2018 (5 月19 日，周六) >Tsinghua University （清华大学) Beijing, China （中国北京) This is just... they could've just went for the central committee party school if they wanted to get high profile handshakes that much

molteanu 8y ago
>Out of all places? Why??? "Since China is the fastest growing tech ecosystem in the world and a massive center of new innovations - we want to meet more founders from China!"
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

greatabel 8y ago

They need compete with www.sinovationventures.com.'Sinovation Ventures' has quite a few similarities to YC, for example:The founders like to support each other, etc

seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Kai Fu’s (famous for the ballmer chair) innovation works has been around forever, it’s not like China is lacking for YC-style tech incubators. However, they are all Chinese owned and managed without direct connections to SV.
- contingencies 8y ago
  There is HAX in Shenzhen, but it's focused on pre-crowdfunded consumer hardware projects. However, at their last building (they moved around 2016/2017) the space apparently interleaved the foreign cohort with a domestic intake they never talk about (to my knowledge) in foreign media. https://hax.co/ https://hax.co/ There are quite a few in Hong Kong as well. https://medium.com/whub/hong-kong-accelerator-and-incubator-programmes-you-need-to-know-568590b836c8 https://medium.com/whub/hong-kong-accelerator-and-incubator-...

SuperNinKenDo 8y ago

I'm disappointed to know that YC has drank the cool-aid on China. Once you invest significantly in China, you quickly find yourselves beholden to the whims of the CCP. And for what? Such privileges as building their dystopian techno-autocracy for them? I don't see any signs in this statement that you are going into this with your eyes open to either the difficulties this will cause down the line, nor the morally "questionable" things you will all be a part of building now. Of course, none of that will be in there, because you all already know that to say anything untoward on the matter would break the ice right out from under your feet. And of course, that's all if you're actually "successful", unlikely given the CCP will prefer something more malleable than even the likes of Zuckerberg are willing to be. I foresee a rapid demise to this project, indeed, I pray for it, as the alternative, you guys actually succeeding, would be painful to watch given what it will involve.

opportune 8y ago
Agreed, investing in China is the "invading Russia" of the tech world. Yes, China is a huge market and a rapidly growing economy, which makes investing there an extremely appetizing prospect. However, it seems very difficult for non-chinese to be able to hold onto their investments in China without their business being ripped off (e.g. having the business model copied by a more Chinese company that gets favorable government treatment and takes over the nascent market), not to mention the political uncertainty of having to deal with / win the favor of arbitrary officials in the Chinese government that may have interests conflicting with your own. And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling - suppose you create a wildly successful and helpful service for Chinese people that involves users' geographic data, private messages between individuals, or financial transactions. You won't get a say in turning over that data to authorities for any and every reason that they have for wanting it. Are you willing to actively participate in corruption and the quashing of political dissent for money?
- DanielBMarkham 8y ago
  "And even if you are successful, you have to consider the ethics of what you're enabling..." This is the thing I don't understand. Ten years ago, you could make a case that simply by making stuff people want, the world would become more connected, all sorts of goodness will happen. You can no longer make that case. People are not idiots. They see both the good and bad that tech has brought. Technology companies are ethically responsible for what their tools end up doing. And if they can't be bothered to develop their own ethics, the rest of us are going to have to develop some for them. I must be missing something. YC is a really smart bunch of guys. Certainly they know what the hell they're getting into.

fisheuler 8y ago

北京欢迎你。

erikb 8y ago

This will fail so much. If you ever had anything to do with China you know there's no path in. Especially under Xi. Even in the old lang sine, when China was (more) open to the West it was still hard. Think about getting serious stuff stolen, threatened by people with sticks etc. Then you sue someone and the judge simply decides in favor of the Chinese party, no matter what they did. The only option I can see is if you have privately loads of money and then marry a strong business family in China. Then through your Chinese wife you can achieve something.

forkerenok 8y ago
I would assume YC has plenty of "wives" and "husbands" (read network connections) in China to vouch for them in front of CCP leaders. Edit: Besides, regardless of connections, I think, the deal where YC provides easy U.S. market entry for Chinese startups for a share in the company is pretty attractive to both sides.
- erikb 8y ago
  Yes, that's what they think if they offer that. And my additional point was that what westerners consider "network connections" you can't have with Chinese people if you are not of Chinese heritage nor married to a Chinese wife. Even if you are a woman and married to a Chinese husband it might not be enough, because he won't listen to you in business related issues. Also hiring Chinese consultants to take care of the relationship won't work, because when the fighting starts they will side at least secretly with the Chinese other party. Also one needs to consider that culture is not just weird behavior. Through the back and forth of each appropriate reaction a Chinese person can achieve something with other Chinese people, despite him being also very frustrated with how the Chinese culture works. Because you don't know the intuitive right reaction you cannot get to that point where you can finally get some honest/valuable response. It can't be learned from a book. You need to grow up with this, because even the Chinese people don't really understand why it works.
  - justicezyx 8y ago
    > if you are not of Chinese heritage nor married to a Chinese wife OK, I think you assume there is no case of Chinese men and non-Chinese women marriage, or same-gender marriage. That appears rather subtle but offensive bias.

jlg23 8y ago

I am amazed by the negativity in the comments. China is a very specific environment with its own rules - just like the US or Europe. There you need to maintain good relations with the party, in the western world it is government officials (preferably those who are not voted into office and thus stick around). Entering such a new, different playing field should tickle every entrepreneur's nerves. Edit: How we fail, esp. in the fb- and now Google debate, that most of the tech we develop is dual-use and can be turned against us in an instant, escapes me.

deleted 8y ago
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Endy 8y ago

Thank you so much for displaying that YC has taken a step toward accepting China's desires to rule the world and a step away from supporting free and open cultural discourse. I think I'm going to be avoiding HN for a while, so that I can avoid the pro-Chinese propaganda and policy which is likely to result from this move.

baby 8y ago

This is awesome. I’ve been wondering how hard it is to partner up, give trainings or consult in China. Without many english speakers there it seems that the Chinese language is a pre requisite but it might be getting better. If anyone has experience to share I’d be interested. I’m guessing this kind of ventures might be easy sales to universities like Tsing Hua.

jk2323 8y ago
What do you have? What do you want?
- baby 8y ago
  Oh, I've been giving applied crypto trainings at Black Hat and different venues. I was wondering if I could train or give classes in China, or collaborate or do security consulting for companies there.

tgb29 8y ago

I have the priveledge of being around Chinese students who are studying in the US. Two comments I've heard recently: 'Doing research in China is the dream' 'I'll move back to China after I graduate; there's more opportinuty for startups there.'

Matticus_Rex 8y ago
I've had the dubious privilege of being around many college students, and in that experience the fact that they say something is true about markets or academia has very little relationship to whether it is actually true.

gaius 8y ago

How does this square with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918480 ?

neolefty 8y ago
BTW, that's a link to a discussion of the NYTimes article "Wanted at Chinese Startups: Attractive Women to Ease Coders’ Stress". Likewise, isn't Hollywood the place with Harvey Weinstein? Must be purely evil. No, China is big and intellectually diverse. Many young idealists who deserve to be catalyzed. Source: Lived there 2011-2016.
- coupdejarnac 8y ago
  Most people commenting on these China posts have a superficial, at best, understanding of China.

Dowwie 8y ago

Of all the provinces, why Beijing?

baybal2 8y ago
>Of all the provinces, why Beijing? Because this guy lives there > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Xi_Jinping_March_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Xi_Jinpi...
jk2323 8y ago
Because Beijing is the best city in China. Shanghai is for people who don't like China. By the way, never fuck with anyone with money in Shanghai. There is always somebody with more money than you. Never fuck with anyone with power in Bejing....

philippz 8y ago

I don't find Beijing to be the best place to start something like that. I'd rather prefer Shanghai which provides a much better ecosystem and access to capital than Beijing.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Shenzhen is the tech place to be in China. But if you want to make the government happy, you got to be near them in Beijing, so a lot of tech happens there also.
- mirgj 8y ago
  Is true, but Shenzhen is culturally very different from Beijing and so is Shanghai. Shenzhen is a new city and tech stuff are there because of the influence of Guangzhou as production hub and HK as facilitator for access to the west. Beijing is more, let me say it, artistic. Is much more vibrant, culturally, than any other city in China. This kind of mix that you can find in New Work, Berlin or London also it brings innovation. So I don't think is meant to make the government "happy". Many Chinese tech company started in Beijing form many reasons: education, capital access, culture and so on. To give you an example: Mobike was founder by an ex journalist
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Many tech companies started in Beijing with obvious government boosts. There is also the major research universities (PKU and Qinghua at the top, many more at tiers just under). However, Beijing is also famous for government meddling and Black Audi-style privileged that is lacking in SZ and SH. Take traffic for example, it is much saner in SH and SZ because the police can actually enforce the rules, whereas in BJ you get a asense they have given up because they feel like everyone is an official or is connected to one. It is a weird city even by Chinese standards.
    - mirgj 8y ago
      I don't have nothing to support this thesis. I just shared my pure observation, after living there for a while, I notice it was a way more dynamic compared to the other 'cold' Chinese cities. Yet I think my message didn't pass through since I got downvoted

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

How does this work since foreigners are still not allowed to have equity in Chinese startups? Is YC getting an exemption from the government, or are they holding it in a Chinese incorporated company?

contingencies 8y ago
This is not my experience, owning one and having owned another. Foreigners can own outright or have a stake in multiple types of organizations, either directly or indirectly, though not all (certain protected sensitive industries such as media, finance, etc.). I suppose this is perhaps a misconception based upon some kind of isolated incidence in which a domestic Chinese registered company had issues writing a foreign investor as a direct shareholder. I am certain this can be done but wouldn't be surprised if it may require alteration of the registration category of the company or the reformation of a new entity owing to the ancient (but improving!) corporate registration system which was geared toward early large foreign industrial investments which came with substantial government shepherding. I seriously doubt the assumed case that caused this misconception is some kind of conniving attempt at ineffective protectionism - far more likely just the wee end of inertia stemming from old-school socialist bureaucracy.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  This is simply not true. Many foreigners have been scammed by this, working for a Chinese startup on the promise of equity, and then being eventually told it is impossible because the government won’t allow it. See: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/09/the-china-stock-option-scam.html https://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/09/the-china-stock-option-.... If you are a foreigner working for a domestic startup, you simply aren’t allowed to have equity. If the company is already listed or is a foreign company, then no problem, otherwise it simply isn’t allowed.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Yes, no company can offer options if they are not public, without any exceptions as I know. Any promise of an option through a proxy subsidiary, variable interest entity for a non listed company is not legal under the republic's law. On other hand, a right-away stock transfer is fully legit. If they sell a part of the stock to a listing aggregation vessel, you can have a part of this vessel's share. Though, I keep myself a kilometer away from any financial scheme in China, and advise you do the same.

contingencies 8y ago

Great timing! Right in line with our Series A. Happy to meet any HN'ers! Email in profile.

Presquare 8y ago

Very exciting news! I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. My biggest problem with Silicon Valley is its ideological uniformity and the increasing willingness to use their companies/products as vehicles to push their ideologies. China would be in an excellent position to address the part of the Western market that is increasingly alienated by this push. They can build SV tech clones for the local market, and then expand to the global market by offering ideologically more neutral (from Western perspective) alternatives to SV tech. Chinese startups will have their own flaws, but at least we will have a choice.

seawlf 8y ago
>ideologically more neutral I hardly feel like the global market will accept Chinese alternatives as being "ideologically neutral" in any sense of the phrase.
benjaminsuch 8y ago
I hope YC will help Chinese startups become global. Why would you want that? As long as the chinese goverment prevent foreign companies to buy chinese companies no one should be happy about chinese startups going global. The chinese goverment is highly corrupt and only supports actions which benefits the chinese. That's why there are so many "joint ventures".
- ObnoxiousProxy 8y ago
  I agree with the corrupt part, but it's interesting that you say "the chinese government...only supports actions which benefits the chinese" as if it's a horrible thing. Every government does what is best for their country... Being upset about it is like getting mad at fire for being hot.
ribfeast 8y ago
What ideologies do you mean exactly?
ng12 8y ago
I'm deeply confused what "ideological diversity" Chinese companies will offer. How much of the Western market is really pining for that autocratic, pro-censorship touch?

indescions_2018 8y ago

Will there be a livestream? Would be a great opportunity to try out instantaneous real-time audio and video translation in english, chinese and japanese ;) Baidu Shows Off Its Instant Pocket Translator https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610623/baidu-shows-off-its-instant-pocket-translator/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610623/baidu-shows-off-it...

polmoya 8y ago

test

auganov 8y ago

To people debating whether China are the good guys or not - hundreds of thousands Falun Dafa practicioners are locked up in Chinese concentration camps. Thousands have died of torture. Many more are suffering it everyday. China is ruled by a cruel evil regime. No question about it. You won't hear people involved with China talk about it. You won't be allowed into China if you do.

eksemplar 8y ago
America has been making children afraid of blue skies with its murder drones for the past 15 years. If evil was an obstacle we wouldn’t be able to use American tech either. I’m not a fan of China and I’m certainly weary of their government spying through their tech, but I’m not really a fan of the NSA being able to read my emails either. Obviously America is the lesser evil, and it’s unfortunate that power is shifting to China, but maybe there will be some healthy lessons in American tech when you start to feel the abuse you’ve put your friends through. Probably not though.
- auganov 8y ago
  How exactly are uninteded civil casualties in military operations comparable to systemic and deliberate jailing and killing of innocent people? This is very low grade whataboutism.
  - typon 8y ago
    "uninteded civil casualties" This is how Americans justify destroying three countries (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and millions of lives.
logicallee 8y ago
>You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that specifically you, auganov, even if this profile is under your real name, would be allowed into China without any issue. (Despite what you've just written.) The standard I've heard said is that "you wouldn't be able to stand in Tiananman square with a 'Free Tibet' sign". To those of us in the free world, that's a ridiculously stifling standard. You can stand in Washington or Times Square with a sign reading whatever you want, 'it's a free country'. China, obviously, isn't. You can't use the standard "hey, it's a free country" because it's not. But this does not extend to your speech outside of China. Trying to bring your free speech into China seems (to me), on a practical level, like trying to bring your heroin, cocaine, and guns in your carry-on to America. Can't do that (and there would be serious consequences.) But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life. I wouldn't ever say any of those things if I'm in China, even in English, even on an international forum, because I would have checked my free speech at the border. On a practical level state oppression is a huge private business. When you're in China you're not free, even in your mundane online speech, such as in private messages in wechat. People pay attention to watching what they say, on an everyday level. But to return to my point, it doesn't mean you wouldn't be allowed in China if you expressed your thoughts previously in the free world. EDIT: I forgot to mention, I've heard an exception for journalists, in the sense that their previous speech is examined more closely, but I don't know if they're refused entry or just watched more closely once there.

sandGorgon 8y ago

India drives the most number of applications to YC after the USA. I wonder why China was chosen over India.

dbuder 8y ago
Access to the Chinese market is more valuable and more difficult.

notbeevil 8y ago

shame on HN.

ausjke 8y ago

you go china, you listen to CCP, then you probably will make some money by trading away your soul. if you want to have freedom of speech there somehow, you're out immediately, the great firewall is there for a reason.

exabrial 8y ago

Interesting... I'll be in Bejing these dates, I may stop in!

pnw_hazor 8y ago

How will this impact my social credit score? Every day China is becoming even more of a nightmare dystopia, so of course YC will dive in headfirst.

zwaps 8y ago

A country where if you disagree with any policy on social media, your kids literally can't go to school, you can't fly and you can't buy a house. Sure, I'll invest right away!

jpincheira 8y ago

to any of the organizers... is it possible to attend to the talks even though I'm starting a company based off -at the moment- Vietnam?