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The Chinese Car Invasion Is Coming
- FreakyT 8y agoInterestingly, in Chile (and possibly other South American countries, perhaps someone else can weigh in) you can already buy Chinese car brands at dealers. I was told that BYD vehicles are the cheapest option but also have terrible reliability.
- thatfrenchguy 8y agoChile’s pretty fascinating because you can buy everything.
- elvirs 8y agoRussia and I think all post Soviet countries. Turkey and most of the middle East countries are full of chinese cars. I think developed countries will lose the markets where they used to sell their older off lease cars to. Eastern European countries are literally Germany & France's junk yard. Looks like thats about to change
- moltar 8y agoNot going to change for a bit. There’s still the fallout from Dieselgate. All of those cars are ending up for peanuts in Eastern Europe. My friend from Ukraine was quoting me insanely low prices for premium cars in Ukraine. And that’s with their super high tax rate. Also, Eastern Europeans like to show off. Car is a major status symbol. Driving a Chinese car is a hair above driving a Soviet car. So anyone who can afford anything better will not buy it.
- elvirs 8y agoshowing off is huge in that part of the world. they will prefer a 20 year old bmw thats falling apart, makes all kind of noises and stinks gasoline rather than get behind a wheel of a newer economy Hyundai
- moltar 8y agoExactly. And provided that premium class cars are now a quarter of the price just a few years ago, who in their right mind would get a new Kia vs a 3yo Audi/BMW.
- rlglwx 8y agoWhenever you read an article like this ask yourself why it hasn’t happened yet. Geely, Great Wall and numerous other Chinese domestic brands have been operating for decades. Why haven’t they cracked the USA market? The dealer network system in the United States.
- pzone 8y agoThen why don't you see them in Europe either?
- osivertsson 8y agoProbably due to strict safety and environmental regulations that gets stricter over time.
- ch4ck 8y agoBut I see many new Volvo cars here...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- floatrock 8y ago> The dealer network system in the United States. So I get that franchising laws require dealers to be independent from manufacturers and they're up there with occupational licensing, but how exactly does that prevent a new manufacturer from entering the market? I assume if you can raise a few billion to build a plant, kickstarting a bunch of new "independent" dealerships is just another line item you plan for...
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoTesla just bypassed the dealer system altogether.
- levosmetalo 8y agoAnd Tesla sold how many cars exactly? The discussion here is about manufacturers trying to actually sell existing cars, not marketing department doing the PoC on sales.
- gojomo 8y agoWill it be dockless rent-by-the-minute electric hatchbacks on every block? Please let it be dockless rent-by-the-minute electric hatchbacks on every block.
- beebmam 8y agoIf global markets aren't transforming China out of totalitarianism, then morally, shouldn't we stop assisting the economic development of China? I'm horrified by some of the stories I've been told by my Chinese co-workers. Threats of violence to family members (for speaking freely) by the Chinese government is extremely common.
- xevb3k 8y agoI think it’s something that should be considered, but it would be useful to provide more than anecdotal support. Are threats of violence really that common? What clear sources are there for that statement?
- helloindia 8y agoHeard of Google?
- jon_richards 8y agoYou might like this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+you http://lmgtfy.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+you
- nichtich 8y agoThe usual. WaPo/NYTimes both did several stories like this. But keep in mind that one result of suppression of free speech is the lack of clear sources. So anecdotal is sometimes the best we got. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/asia/china-xinjiang-rfa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/world/asia/china-xinjiang...
- xevb3k 8y agoThe article you cite is regarding journalists. While I accept that this is bad, the comment above as I understood it was regarding threats against regular people for speaking freely. I’m not saying that doesn’t occur, but I would be interested in non-anecdotal sources. If any exist.
- wildchild 8y agoOnly kamikaze use their coffins on wheels. In any light road accident this "car" folds like a cardboard box.
- mc32 8y agoWhile Chinese cars will prove to be worthy competitors to American (and European) domestic MFGS --I imagine the threat to Japanese and Korean manufacturers in overseas markets will be very significant, since many of those markets don't have a "domestic brand" they have an affinity to.
- doesnt_know 8y agoI didn't know this was controversial in any way, they've been in the Oceania market for some time. My wife and I own a Chery J3, purchased it new. It came with a 3 year mechanical warranty plus other benefits for like half the price of a Japanese car. I mean, it's pretty obviously catering for the "budget" market, it is literally the cheapest new car you can buy in the country. But it has suited our needs and we're actually a bit attached to the stupid thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoI think Chinese cars have been in markets like Australia for awhile now, as well awards developing markets. I don’t think they’ve been present anywhere else however. There was a scandal in Australia a few years ago with I think BYD or Chery lowering their standards after crash test approval.
- 2RTZZSro 8y agoThe crash tests are already abysmal I cannot imagine how dangerous this car is if they actually lowered their safety standards after the test.
- tschwimmer 8y agoCan you talk a bit more about your experience with the car? How much did it cost, how reliable has it been, what are your most and least favorite things about it?
- 2RTZZSro 8y agoThe Chery J3 costs just as much as the Japanese car if not more. The catch is when you crash you pay with your life. The J3 has very poor body integrity in an accident. It should be pulled from all markets immediately. If you value life you should immediately get rid of this car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naUWH8Scc80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naUWH8Scc80
- ummonk 8y ago
- sunstone 8y agoIt may be coming but it's unlikely to be coming to North America, Europe and India any time soon. After having been forced to turn over their technology to China to enter its market these countries are not willingly going to turn around and buy that technology back in their own markets.
- WillReplyfFood 8y agoIm sure the core-ruptured politician caste wouldnt even consider such a sell-out. Im reall trying to keep a straigth face here.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- adrianN 8y agoGood. Maybe some real competition can shake up the established car manufacturers. Right now they have to be forced by the government to modernize their lineup wrt emissions. I can't wait for cheap Chinese EVs in inner cities.
- grecy 8y agoWhen it came to Australia it essentially forced the closure of the Ford and Holden (GM) vehicle design and factories. You can buy a brand new Chinese car with a 3 year warranty for less than the depreciation on a new Ford/GM/Toyota would be in 2 years. So after 3 years you can literally drive the Chinese vehicle to the dump and buy another one, and you're still up financially. Reviews so far say they're cheap, you get what you pay for, but they work and are reliable enough.
- threeseed 8y agoThis isn't what happened at all. The decline of Australian car makers was entirely a result of consumers favouring (a) European car makers e.g. Mercedes and (b) smaller, more fuel efficient cars. People just don't want large, 4 door sedan cars with V8 5L engines, a comparatively lower class brand and a less than luxurious interior.
- gkanai 8y ago> they're cheap, you get what you pay for, but they work and are reliable enough. Chinese vehicles are not as safe in accidents as those cars which have had a longer time to engineer safety technologies. Also the price point of most Chinese cars do now allow for addition of safety technologies at the level of most other non-Chinese vehicles. Same thing with the upcoming COMAC Chinese-made airplanes. You do not want to fly those planes when they finally hit the market.
- boznz 8y agoFord, BMW, VW, Volvo, etc already manufacture cars in China, and with 50% to 100% Chinese ownership its pretty obvious the next generation of Chinese cars are going to have the same level of refinement and safety as these (because, well Fuck IP rights) and at about half the price
- dnomad 8y agoI've noticed Australians and many others will go out of their way to not buy Chinese-made. It's a bit crazy. People, especially some Chinese themselves in certain cities, will go out of their way to spend a bunch of many on expensive Japanese and American cars when you can get a an equivalent Chinese vehicle for literally a third of the price. You've got to hand it to the car companies, they've done a very, very good job convincing people that their car is a status symbol just as important as their house.
- rmason 8y agoIf China was serious they'd market solely electric cars to get a toehold in the American market. I can hear a dealer now telling a prospect, you can wait another two years for a Model 3 or buy ours and drive it home tonight. There's a pent up demand for battery powered cars under $40K. A Chinese SUV? It would have to be rather compelling to take a chance.
- stretchwithme 8y agoI'll stick with Japanese cars. I've been driving Toyotas for 35 years. And they're an ally. My hope is that China will moderate and become less authoritarian and less of a threat to its neighbors. Most countries have over time. And I hope the US will be less involved in foreign military adventures. There's no doubt in my mind that much of what dictators do is driven by what we do. I also believe that trade helps prevent war. We tend to not go to war with countries with whom we have many profitable relationships.
- gkanai 8y ago> My hope is that China will moderate and become less authoritarian and less of a threat to its neighbors. That Xi just took power until his death means that this is not happening in China.
- latch 8y ago> less of a threat to its neighbors Doesn't China have a exceedingly good record here? Quick googling suggest it has had no major (and certainly no unilateral) military conflicts in the last 30 years. Military build up seems reasonable given the situation in Korea, Pakistan and India, the growing isolation of Russia, and America's continued military "adventures." It's claims in the south china sea do seem out of character, but we live in a world where might is right.
- arvinjoar 8y agoYou can't look only at track record. Afaik they have an unreasonable amount of infantry for purely defensive purposes. They're #3 globally in terms of firepower, of course they won't create trouble until they're reasonably sure they'll come out ahead. Once they're more powerful economically and militarily you'll have a an unscrupulous nation, with a dictator for life, capable of very long-term planning, leading a pretty explicitly racist people in need of massive amounts of natural resources. So yeah, even though they're not currently adventurous militarily, I wouldn't count on that being the case forever.
- 2RTZZSro 8y agoNo, it's not. Chinese cars will not pass US safety regulations for a long time and at a high cost.
- moltar 8y agoOf course they will. The reason they are not safe is not because they don’t know how to make a safe car. It’s because the requirements were not there before. Why build it safer at an expense, if you don’t have to. Montréal company is already in the process of importing BYD electric cars for taxis. http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/03/05/teo-taxi-aura-un-nouveau-competiteur-a-montreal http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/03/05/teo-taxi-aura-un... Our rules in Canada are just as strict as in US. So if they can do it - anyone can do it.
- Theodores 8y agoIn big Chinese cities it costs you the equivalent of many thousands of dollars to get a licence plate. Without that city plate you cannot drive in the city during rush hour, you have to have a city plate. Typically electric cars and plug in hybrids are exempt from the scheme. This means that if you live in Shenzen and want to get around then you can see if you win the lottery of licence plates and are allowed to pay $10K to join the club, or you just get an electric car. The electric cars are better than the old fashioned cars with better ride quality due to the battery weight, better turning circles due to no huge motor between the front wheels, spritely acceleration off the line (if not at highway speeds), plus silence when waiting at the lights. This is a civilised experience and people don't go back to noisy motors with 'stick shift' involvement in driving. Much like how people did not go back to the horse when the car came along. A cheap basic car is better than a horse with fluffy cushions. China are leading the way on this electric car revolution, they are doing great with their domestic market and when the rest of the world goes electric the Chinese brands will have quite an advantage. In Europe a lot of fanfare was made about Jaguar and their electric SUV, which is not out yet. It will be contract manufactured by Magna in Graz Austria, not made in Jaguar's own factory in Birmingham. The Nissan Leaf (new version) is a car well suited to Western markets and built by Nissan/Renault rather than outsourced. A very nice product, as is the BMW i3, but it seems that the Chinese really have a better product for the market - affordable! Tesla have shown that car interiors do not have to be 'luxury leather' with a massive console thing, dashboard resembling a radiogram from the 1950's, silly carpets everywhere topped out with chintzy bling trim. The budget Chinese cars have none of the 'luxury trim' with hard plastics everywhere. However the experience is actually civilised, no noise, no rattles, lots of interior space. So owners are quite willing to forget the fluffier aspects of old fashioned cars. There is no range anxiety either, if you are going to drive all day to get somewhere you just get a plane instead and get your day back.
- amriksohata 8y agoYou have to love how threatened people feel by China rising, words like "invasion" and "human rights". How do we think The United States rose or Britain? When they became the biggest superpowers? Just look at the migration of Europeans into the Wild West and how they took the Natives land from them, or the slave trade etc. I'm not saying that makes them any better, but it's just odd how we sometimes perceive ourselves better just because now after all those years we are trying to teach the world our mistakes but oh no you're not allowed to grow!
- thisisit 8y agoDoes anyone know how much of current US/European cars use Chinese parts? I think if current car manufacturers are already dependent on Chinese parts, then we are not having much of an "invasion" really.
- rasz 8y agoTesla does, alu profiles are from China.