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But these are eco-friendly bitcoins. In china they burn coal for this. So I think this is definitely a good thing.

by mathgenius 9y ago

PakG1 9y ago
Mining bitcoin in Iceland hasn't stopped bitcoin mining in China with coal though, has it? So what does that matter?
- leoc 9y ago
  Assuming that higher supply of Bitcoin means lower price (a dangerous assumption for anything with such a heavily speculation-driven price, I know) then that lower price should presumably mean lower production of Bitcoin in China, maybe only modestly lower.
  - wolco 9y ago
    What happens is the difficulity rate increases and the power required to mine the next coin increases and China's miners requires more coal. Iceland's clean energy has a dirty by-product.
    - Someone 9y ago
      Not necessarily. If clean energy in Iceland is cheaper than coal in China and can grow indefinitely, increasing the difficulty may push the Chinese miners out of the market, stopping all coal-using crypto-currency mining.
      - coconutrandom 9y ago
        Not sure why they downvoted this. This is an accurate comment.
        elago 9y ago
        "and can grow indefinitely" It's accurate only given this flawed assumption.
        loeg 9y ago
        It's accurate if both of its big assumptions are true, which seems unlikely given how inexpensive coal is and the relative levels of corruption and tolerance for environmental damage between China and Iceland.
        dredmorbius 9y ago
        Presuming the antecedant.
      - mg74 9y ago
        Clean energy can not grow indefinitely in Iceland, there is only so much water falling so many meters. There may be other methods involving steam and earth warmth that Iceland may be uniquely competitive in, but that is going to require the invention of new technologies and processes.
    - joshlemer 9y ago
      Well at the same time it out competes other miners, so may reduce greenhouse gas emissions on net.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
      Maybe this is why we haven’t heard from advanced alien civilisations: they’ve all extinguished their suns in an effort to mine the next block, thereby rapidly rendering their whole civilisation extinguished. Of course, any sufficiently advanced civilisation that can build a Contraption to extract all the energy from s star should also be advanced enough to build a computer model complex enough to reveal the secrets of warp drive, but didn’t because they were too busy mining crypto.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    But it's not higher supply, since the network enforces a limit of 1 block every 10 min. Bitcoin does not scale, it's just people reaching for a smaller part of the pie that, for pretty purely speculative reasons, still cost a lot.
riantogo 9y ago
It is like people around the world paying for steam in Iceland.
mg74 9y ago
You are assuming that mining for crypto is a useful thing to begin with. Not everyone agrees with you. And many here in Iceland are not enamoured with the idea that we should build more damns and loose more waterfalls so some people can get rich off speculation. Even if it is more eco friendly than people getting rich off speculation in China.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  You are assuming people will stop mining if this is banned in Iceland. That's just not how it works. Feel free to like or dislike cryptocurrency mining (I too believe it to be a waste of energy -- but that's not the point), but it's likely not going away. So you want the "green" efforts to be as cheap and efficient as possible, if you want to outcompete the less eco friendly alternatives.
  - mg74 9y ago
    Judging from your comment Im assuming you do not live in Iceland, apologies if Im wrong. The reality is that there are only a handful of energy providers in Iceland capable of providing the energy at this scale, Landsvirkjun being the largest (by far). These companies are either government owned or very sensitive to political realities, and will stop selling energy to mining centers if the pressure becomes strong enough.
    - charlesdm 9y ago
      You're right, I do not. Sure, but these companies would just relocate again? I don't see how that fixes things at the global level (aside from them leaving Iceland and relocating somewhere else, of course). Now they might at least be paying taxes and generating some jobs. If it wasn't used for mining, where would the excess power go?
  - SiempreViernes 9y ago
    Why would bitcoin be harder to ban than filamentary lightbulbs? You think they can lobby harder than the transport industry that would gain from the distraction?
wklauss 9y ago
> But these are eco-friendly bitcoins. In china they burn coal for this. So I think this is definitely a good thing. I'm hoping this is sarcasm, but in case it's not the cost of opportunity here is the main issue. Imagine all that computer power applied to protein folding simulation, to name a simple, useful-for-everyone task.
- yason 9y ago
  The comment seemed pragmatic. Coins will be mined regardless of whether it makes sense: it's better if it's done more ecologically as long as coins will be mined.
  - SiempreViernes 9y ago
    If individuals rather spend their money on mining coins that's fine, but building an entire industry spending the finite resources of the Earth dedicated to breaking pointless hashes seems pretty idiotic from a pure survival standpoint.
    - Bizarro 9y ago
      You have a confused view of the realities of "individuals" vs "industry".
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  You would think someone would have by now invented a crypto currency who’s token is a correctly folded protein. There’s probably a rule, or law, or some such, that predicts if I do an internet search for this I will find it is already a thing.
  - bostik 9y ago
    I saw a talk by researcher in the UK who has been toying around with the concept of cryptocurrencies with useful proof-of-work schemes. Mirror of Faye's talk slides here: https://yadi.sk/d/8ezgDZvO3PLZ6C https://yadi.sk/d/8ezgDZvO3PLZ6C
onetimemanytime 9y ago
YOU think that, not Icelanders. Hydropower has its major issues and thermal also has its own. So this is the classic "not in my backyard." Also, what good is it if an industry builds up, cities spring up as a results...and then it collapses?

But these are eco-friendly bitcoins. In china they burn coal for this. So I think this is definitely a good thing.

PakG1 9y ago

Mining bitcoin in Iceland hasn't stopped bitcoin mining in China with coal though, has it? So what does that matter?

leoc 9y ago
Assuming that higher supply of Bitcoin means lower price (a dangerous assumption for anything with such a heavily speculation-driven price, I know) then that lower price should presumably mean lower production of Bitcoin in China, maybe only modestly lower.
- wolco 9y ago
  What happens is the difficulity rate increases and the power required to mine the next coin increases and China's miners requires more coal. Iceland's clean energy has a dirty by-product.
  - Someone 9y ago
    Not necessarily. If clean energy in Iceland is cheaper than coal in China and can grow indefinitely, increasing the difficulty may push the Chinese miners out of the market, stopping all coal-using crypto-currency mining.
    - coconutrandom 9y ago
      Not sure why they downvoted this. This is an accurate comment.
      - elago 9y ago
        "and can grow indefinitely" It's accurate only given this flawed assumption.
      - loeg 9y ago
        It's accurate if both of its big assumptions are true, which seems unlikely given how inexpensive coal is and the relative levels of corruption and tolerance for environmental damage between China and Iceland.
      - dredmorbius 9y ago
        Presuming the antecedant.
    - mg74 9y ago
      Clean energy can not grow indefinitely in Iceland, there is only so much water falling so many meters. There may be other methods involving steam and earth warmth that Iceland may be uniquely competitive in, but that is going to require the invention of new technologies and processes.
  - joshlemer 9y ago
    Well at the same time it out competes other miners, so may reduce greenhouse gas emissions on net.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    Maybe this is why we haven’t heard from advanced alien civilisations: they’ve all extinguished their suns in an effort to mine the next block, thereby rapidly rendering their whole civilisation extinguished. Of course, any sufficiently advanced civilisation that can build a Contraption to extract all the energy from s star should also be advanced enough to build a computer model complex enough to reveal the secrets of warp drive, but didn’t because they were too busy mining crypto.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  But it's not higher supply, since the network enforces a limit of 1 block every 10 min. Bitcoin does not scale, it's just people reaching for a smaller part of the pie that, for pretty purely speculative reasons, still cost a lot.

riantogo 9y ago

It is like people around the world paying for steam in Iceland.

mg74 9y ago

You are assuming that mining for crypto is a useful thing to begin with. Not everyone agrees with you. And many here in Iceland are not enamoured with the idea that we should build more damns and loose more waterfalls so some people can get rich off speculation. Even if it is more eco friendly than people getting rich off speculation in China.

charlesdm 9y ago
You are assuming people will stop mining if this is banned in Iceland. That's just not how it works. Feel free to like or dislike cryptocurrency mining (I too believe it to be a waste of energy -- but that's not the point), but it's likely not going away. So you want the "green" efforts to be as cheap and efficient as possible, if you want to outcompete the less eco friendly alternatives.
- mg74 9y ago
  Judging from your comment Im assuming you do not live in Iceland, apologies if Im wrong. The reality is that there are only a handful of energy providers in Iceland capable of providing the energy at this scale, Landsvirkjun being the largest (by far). These companies are either government owned or very sensitive to political realities, and will stop selling energy to mining centers if the pressure becomes strong enough.
  - charlesdm 9y ago
    You're right, I do not. Sure, but these companies would just relocate again? I don't see how that fixes things at the global level (aside from them leaving Iceland and relocating somewhere else, of course). Now they might at least be paying taxes and generating some jobs. If it wasn't used for mining, where would the excess power go?
- SiempreViernes 9y ago
  Why would bitcoin be harder to ban than filamentary lightbulbs? You think they can lobby harder than the transport industry that would gain from the distraction?

wklauss 9y ago

> But these are eco-friendly bitcoins. In china they burn coal for this. So I think this is definitely a good thing. I'm hoping this is sarcasm, but in case it's not the cost of opportunity here is the main issue. Imagine all that computer power applied to protein folding simulation, to name a simple, useful-for-everyone task.

yason 9y ago
The comment seemed pragmatic. Coins will be mined regardless of whether it makes sense: it's better if it's done more ecologically as long as coins will be mined.
- SiempreViernes 9y ago
  If individuals rather spend their money on mining coins that's fine, but building an entire industry spending the finite resources of the Earth dedicated to breaking pointless hashes seems pretty idiotic from a pure survival standpoint.
  - Bizarro 9y ago
    You have a confused view of the realities of "individuals" vs "industry".
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
You would think someone would have by now invented a crypto currency who’s token is a correctly folded protein. There’s probably a rule, or law, or some such, that predicts if I do an internet search for this I will find it is already a thing.
- bostik 9y ago
  I saw a talk by researcher in the UK who has been toying around with the concept of cryptocurrencies with useful proof-of-work schemes. Mirror of Faye's talk slides here: https://yadi.sk/d/8ezgDZvO3PLZ6C https://yadi.sk/d/8ezgDZvO3PLZ6C

onetimemanytime 9y ago

YOU think that, not Icelanders. Hydropower has its major issues and thermal also has its own. So this is the classic "not in my backyard." Also, what good is it if an industry builds up, cities spring up as a results...and then it collapses?