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The real reason why OLPC failed is that children in downtrodden countries don't need a laptop. They need food, a healthy environment, good old fashioned classro
by dingo_bat 9y ago
The real reason why OLPC failed is that children in downtrodden countries don't need a laptop. They need food, a healthy environment, good old fashioned classroom education and plenty of pens and notebooks. A laptop is the worst tool you can use for studying.
I went through my entire school and undergraduate college without once bringing my laptop into the classroom. My mother and father learned to program in FORTRAN using nothing but pen, paper and the occasional slide rule.
Paper books, decent sized notebooks and ballpoint pens. Spend $100 on that. That will actually help. This whole project was solving a first world problem in the third world.
- elsonrodriguez 9y ago...Porque no los dos?
- dingo_bat 9y agoThen they should have spent $200.
- elsonrodriguez 9y agoGood job. Now we can start having a conversation of what our children are really worth! Do I hear a $300? Or is that all we got?
- antirez 9y agoI learned BASIC at school writing programs in my notebook... Much powerful way to learn not only having to write the program, but also having to run it in your mind. Of course once at home I could write the source and run it in the actual computer at least.
- lev99 9y ago> A laptop is the worst tool you can use for studying. A laptop is a great tool for studying. Word Processing makes editing papers much easier than the old markup and rewrite method. The web makes researching topics and cross referencing documents much easier. Nothing beats actually running code for learning how to program. If I was going to spend $100/yr on educational supplies for a student I wouldn't spend it on a laptop. Pencils, notebooks, and textbooks are more important. If I was going to spend $1000/yr on educational supplies for a student I 100% would include a computer.
- hfdgiutdryg 9y agoTechnology is a distraction in the classroom. I regret even the minimal presence of technology when I was in school, aside from computer science 'lab' work.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> Technology is a distraction in the classroom. Pencils, paper, white/blackboards, books, chairs, desks, walls, windows, electric lighting, HVAC systems, and even clothing are all “technology”.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoYes, but I think we're all intelligent enough to understand what the parent means.
- lev99 9y agoIt's often a distraction in the classroom, but it's also a very valuable tool for studying. It seems really reasonable to have laptops off during instruction periods, have them on for some labs, and use them to help with homework.
- epmaybe 9y agoI don't agree with this sentiment. Semantics aside (pens and paper are considered technology whether you like it or not), technology is what you make of it. If you can apply said technology to be more productive in class, then allow yourself to take full advantage of that. If you personally know you're going to spend most of that time in the classroom going on Facebook or Twitter, then you should have the self-control to not bring your laptop to class. I'm someone who gets distracted very easily, so my compromise was blocking websites that caused distractions during class so that I could focus on annotating class powerpoints rapidly.
- hfdgiutdryg 9y agoI don't agree with this sentiment Okay. Google study technology interferes with learning and do some reading. If you personally know you're going to spend most of that time in the classroom going on Facebook or Twitter, then you should have the self-control to not bring your laptop to class. And everyone should have self control, optimal intelligence, etc. But that's not how the world works. As for Facebook and Twitter, how about the 20 minutes spent in every trig class making sure that everyone's TI-82 was set to radians and not degrees, and running around the class addressing errors caused by typos? That's time that could be better spent on classic analysis. What about the complete rabbit's hole that is Wikipedia?
- jbob2000 9y agoThe hope was that we could export a lot of knowledge in a very small package to people who were susceptible to its uptake. We might not see the benefits of OLPC until these children become adults. One of the problems with providing charity in Africa is the ridiculous amount of superstition that pervades every aspect of African life. If we can remove one or two of these superstitions, then uplifting African society will be so much easier (perhaps it is ethnocentric of me to assume that African society wants and/or needs to be uplifted, maybe that's why the program failed?). There was a video posted a while back where the students of a South African university were mad that they weren't learning about magic. Yes, magic. They had "seen magic" in their villages and were upset that the university was teaching them that magic wasn't possible (It didn't help that the lessons were coming from white people, but that's another issue). You can't fix adults when they get all the way to university with those kinds of superstitions, you just need to start on the next generation and hope the lessons stick.
- jimmyjack 9y agoAs an African, born and currently living in Africa where I develop and deploy ICT solutions to the most remote areas, I would like to say that what you are saying is utter uninformed bullshit. The superstition that is prevalent is one person believing neighbors and relatives are bewitching them or using them somehow to fuel their success. Having come from such a background, that has not stopped my education. Secondly if you spent 1 hour in any African village, you would realize how highly people think of their own governments, white people and people from towns. The challenge we have is that due to corruption by our own people (who the multitude trust) who fail to bring us the books, pens and pencils, we fall victim to the west's kindness and sometimes propensity for such uninformed nonsense as you have written above. Also, absolutely no one would take any of those South African students seriously, it's a joke. We are not as backwards as you think. Unless you also believe thoughts and prayers will stop your mass shootings. Lastly, the west's general belief in the superstitution of praying to a guy who was nailed to a cross then resurrected after 3 days seems NOT to have had a negative bearing on your development. How do you suppose witchcraft has held back Africans?
- jbob2000 9y ago
- mjw1007 9y agoPaper books are expensive to print, warehouse, and ship. If someone could make a robust laptop for $100 I could easily believe in it being a net gain, even if it was only ever used for reading textbooks.
- dingo_bat 9y agoNo. Paper books for schoolchildren are extremely cheap[0]. They work without power. They work even after getting a bit wet. They work even if you sit on them. You can highlight and underline stuff on the pages. You can share it easily. You can even take small notes on the books. You can do exercises right on the book. You can take photocopies easily. There is simply no competition. [0] https://www.amazon.in/Books-NCERT/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A976389031%2Cp_27%3ANCERT https://www.amazon.in/Books-NCERT/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A97...
- j45 9y agoWhile printing is cheap, the licensing of the content often is not and can vary from country to country. If textbooks were cheaper, Khan Academy would not be successful. Open Educational Resources (OER) hopefully will make some inroads on this but until then, textbooks are generally more expensive.
- mjw1007 9y agoLicence costs aren't an inherent advantage of 'digital' distribution over paper, though. But if we could get to the stage where the licensing costs are are small compared to the production costs, the laptop would do better, because it could contain thousands of books.
- FrojoS 9y agoCorrect, but do student need thousands of books. Maybe 20-30 per year?
- 9y ago
- VikingCoder 9y agoI thought it was crap, too, until I read: The cheapest way to give 100 books to someone in the third world is to give them a laptop (and a way to power it.) Also, for most of their target audience, the laptop would be the brightest source of light in their home. This image, in particular: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6990034.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6990034.stm So, no, don't think of it as a "laptop," it's just an educational device in a laptop form factor. That said, I had major problems with how OLPC executed on that vision.
- dingo_bat 9y ago> The cheapest way to give 100 books to someone in the third world is to give them a laptop (and a way to power it.) I doubt it. Have a look at these prices[0]. The most expensive books do not exceed ₹150. A 100 of those costs ₹15000. $100 = ₹6500. Plus add the power source. You get very close to ₹15000. And as we saw, $100 was nowhere near enough to make a good usable laptop/educational device. So you need to spend more. And that is when compared to Amazon! Buying books wholesale (or printing them) will be even cheaper. [0] https://www.amazon.in/Books-NCERT/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A976389031%2Cp_27%3ANCERT https://www.amazon.in/Books-NCERT/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A97...
- vorpalhex 9y agoHave you ever tried to ship 100 books? Last time I tried to ship 2 cookbooks across the US it was nearly $30 for just shipping. I would much rather ship a laptop and a power solution. Not to mention the storage and care of 100 books in less-than-ideal housing where moisture and rodents are very real problems. Plus the actual volume of 100 some books. Compared to a laptop, that can sit in your bag, and also serve as a light source. It doesn't need to be a good laptop, it just has to be a laptop. There were still french farmers using text only BBS like terminals a decade ago, quite happily.
- dingo_bat 9y agoHave you clicked the link in my comment? Delivery of books is cheap in third world countries. OLPC was not targeting American students! Also, you don't buy 100 books at once. A year in school will need about 10 books. Send the next 10 next year.
- rhacker 9y agoThe only thing I can think of is give a man a fish/fishing pole to this comment. It's been said billion times over, but 2017-2018 is the year of Africa. You will see in the coming years React software development shops pop up in Africa like we saw in Pakistan, India. That being said, I don't think it's $100 laptops, its $1000 laptops.
- foobarbecue 9y ago... 2017-2018? As in... last year and this year?
- shafyy 9y agoYour argument is: "I have done x in the past and I turned out fine, so x must be the best path in the future". That's the least innovative way of thinking. Ever. PS: I'm not saying $100 laptops in Africa or good or bad, just saying your argument is ridiculous.
- dingo_bat 9y agoMy argument is not that. My argument is that you feed bread, rice and meat to a starving person. Not cake and pizza. The first requirement to improve students' life is to ensure they have adequate books, stationery, good teachers and food. Laptops come a bit later.
- cag_ii 9y agoYou're conflating two different problems. OLPC was never meant to replace food (or other necessities). Additionally, having a dictionary, spell checker and encyclopedia at your fingertips make a laptop a great addition to a classroom.
- dingo_bat 9y agoIt was meant to be an analogy.
- shafyy 9y agoI don't think anyone seriously argues that kids should receive laptops over food. But your argument is exactly that: You're implying that books and pencils are more important for education than "high"-tech. Do you really think having a pencil, textbook and a notepad is more important than having access to the internet with countless, excellent free resources of education (e.g. Khan Academy).
- dingaling 9y agoBooks, stationery; need to be stored properly to protect them from climate and insects. Need to be protected from unscrupulous adults who desire fire tinder. Solar-charged laptops can be weather-sealed and are much less useful for unintended destructive uses.
- hindsightbias 9y agoI'm wondering if there's any evidence that classroom education in the First World has benefited from laptops. Any peer-reviewed studies on a grade school computer-based curricula out there?
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoI think the problem is that the tech gets implemented by general subject teachers, often without proper support (in UK). You need comprehensively designed curricula that can exploit all the tech available in a completely integrated way. Instead it seems you get a pile of tablets, then a subscription to an online system, and it relies on the particular teachers comfort level with the tech and willingness to include it. In UK schools the use of tech seems mostly unsophisticated.
- bluGill 9y agoI always use this analogy: how/have hammers in the classroom benefited education. Once we divorce ourselves from the baggage of wanting to "prepare kids of the future" we can be more objective. None of my English teachers have brought a hammer into the classroom. The Physics/science teachers need one of those 2 meter cartoon rubber hammers for some demonstrations. The shop class needs 40 different types of hammers, and 6 of them there is enough for each student to have one. The art class needs a couple hammers, and once in a while the teacher will borrow a complete set from the shop classroom. You can continue the logic for other areas. Now that have set our mind right, what about computers. There are a number of places where computers are useful in school, but only rarely is it because they are a computer. In English class you need a word processor - there is no particular reason a dedicated word processor only machine wouldn't work just as well if a modern one existed. Likewise in all other classes, the important part isn't the computer, the important part is the software the computer is running.
- SamReidHughes 9y agoThe general programmability of a graphing calculator has been important for a subset of students.
- tlrobinson 9y agoI think the idea of the OLPC was just ahead of its time. A good live teacher will likely always be able to provide higher quality education, but at some point recorded lectures and adaptive learning software will be adequate and more cost effective than the average live teacher who can only teach a few dozen students at a time. If the alternative is no or low quality education then certainly that would be preferable.
- saas_co_de 9y agoWhat they really need is a Chinese smartphone running android for $50 ...
- akvadrako 9y agoOr a tablet for a similar price. This basically serves the same purpose as an OLPC but with a much bigger ecosystem and economies of scale.
- imtringued 9y agoThe article talked about children preferring smartphones but also that they are less ruggedized and break more easily. In this regard OLPC is a success.
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoThis is such a common problem in our industry, we see technology as the answer to every problem. You can see it here, some article will raise and issue and there will be a dozen posts suggesting an app for that. I guess there is some truth to that aphorism that if your only tool is a hammer then everything looks like a nail.
- jlebrech 9y agoIf they need food, clothing or furniture. why not give them practical courses such as gardening/farming, sewing, woodwork. Sure it sounds like labor, but does a child in a deprived country need to learn how to make text bold, write a formula or even code.
- bluGill 9y agoThey already are learning that from the adults in their life. If they want to get beyond they need to do something different. There are two choices: experiment and see what works, or learn from others. The latter is much easier - IF you can find out what others have done. There are many modern farming methods that could apply well to the village garden, but there are subtle things that have to be got just right or it will be a failure just like the adults in the village warn you. The kids who can read have a much better chance trying the right experiment in the village garden and getting a good harvest, while those who seem to try the same thing without reading first are likely to make one of those small mistakes that ruin the harvest and fail the experiment.
- jlebrech 9y agoyou're right, learning an basic arithmetic would obviously be something to teach then but also with some practical skills (how school used to be for the west)
- wavemode 9y agoI disagree with the sentiment that because you can study without a laptop, giving the students laptops is pointless. There is a lot of value in becoming familiar with modern technology and learning computer-related skills.