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“More often than not, she relies on charts, graphs and quantitative analysis as a foundation for a decision, particularly when it comes to evaluating
by terminado 8y ago
“More often than not, she relies on charts, graphs
and quantitative analysis as a foundation for a
decision, particularly when it comes to evaluating
people … At a recent personnel meeting, she homes in
on grade-point averages and SAT scores to narrow a
list of candidates, many having graduated from Ivy
League schools, … One candidate got a C in macroeconomics.
“That’s troubling to me,” Ms. Mayer says.
“Good students are good at all things.”
Kind of a stunning misconception right there. A person only needs to look in the mirror, to invalidate such an idea.
- sova 8y agoEspecially with an education system that's effective on only 2 out of 12 different brain arrangements [see Timothy Leary's "your brain is god"], it's hard to say that school marks are any predictor of how beneficial one will be to Humanity or the Planet.
- icelancer 8y ago>> it's hard to say that school marks are any predictor of how beneficial one will be to Humanity or the Planet I've mostly found them to be negative signals. I blind applications for education now.
- psyc 8y agoThe phrasing is unfortunate. It's reasonable in that context, in that very high GPAs aren't that uncommon at her level. "All academic things." Naturally "all things" is much too broad.
- terminado 8y agoTo frame an assessment of an individual like that, risks throwing the baby out with the bath water. It leaves no room for externalities and circumstance, and assumes the individual had all needs met, perfectly, at all times. Facts are facts, even if someone came up short once or twice. Maybe blame is irrelevant, and excuses aren't a substitute for productivity, but simply put, that's not how you measure humans, and any human knows that.
- psyc 8y agoOh I absolutely agree it's an appalling approach to hiring, at least for a role that isn't heavy on macroeconomics (or whatever). I suppose I was only making the trivial point that very high GPAs are common in that sphere. But upon reflecting on your reply, maybe that is an undesirable self-perpetuating selection effect.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> risks throwing the baby out with the bath water If one has an excess of qualified candidates, this isn't an issue. Wasting too much time on the decision becomes the biggest risk.
- quantumhobbit 8y agoI think we have seen that an excess of qualified candidates, for some values of qualified, leads to problems with diversity in tech. After all if you have enough candidates, you can choose to only hire clones if the founders. And completely miss out on the benefits of diverse experiences bringing out creativity.
- candiodari 8y agoIsn't this racist ? Why are you saying "diverse" candidates wouldn't be qualified ? Google is well known, as are many other companies, to have the upper echelons of engineering filled with Stanford grads (and faculty), with their idea of diversity being the occasional Berkeley faculty member that's well liked there. (other companies, of course, have different universities they do this with, although Stanford certainly seems to have more than it's fair share) So on the plus side, it's not racist. On the down side ...
- GFY-NSA 8y ago>After all if you have enough candidates, you can choose to only hire clones if the founders Or you could choose to hire people who aren't clones. It's not like you're stuck with Hobb's Choice when you have a glut of options
- seibelj 8y agoI got a C+ in linear algebra because it was the easiest math course I took in college. I barely studied for the final. I thought I could sleep through it and pass, so I skimmed the material and went to bed early, and then did really bad. I guess I’m not google material :’(
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- faceplanted 8y agoI had a calculus class at uni that started so easy that no-one was showing up after week one, and the module was 90% exam, 10% coursework, so people weren't bothering to do the assignments either. The people not showing up didn't seem to realise that the class ramped up to multivariable calculus by the end of term (Britain doesn't really separate calculus into numbered stages in the same way the US does), and the final revision lecture before the exam was completely full and the room had an air of absolute dread now that everyone knew what they'd been missing. Not a very high pass rate on that class.
- osoba 8y agoI had a class that was so easy that most students didn't bother to show up for lectures. Near the end of the semester the profesor got angry that nobody came to his lecture and decided to retroactively grade attendance with 70% of the grade. Most students flunked. I was fortunate that his class was in between two others I was taking, so I attended about half of the lectures and passed it with a grade that corresponds to the American C+/B-
- debatem1 8y agoI graduated with a GPA so low recruiters used to ask me whether it was on a 4-point scale, but I got a job at Google and eventually led a team there. Probably shouldn't freak out over one test.
- stefkors 8y agoHow did you still end up at google?
- alecco 8y agoI beg to differ. Ms. Mayer is right. She wants high-functioning, compliant drones.
- hyperpallium 8y agoEinstein failed experimental physics (src: Isaacson's bio)
- yodsanklai 8y ago“Good students are good at all things.” If she doesn't have enough "good student" applications (according to her definition of "good student") in her company, which criteria will she relax? And even if she does have a large enough pool of "good student" applicants, how would she select one among them?
- s1212321 8y agoTypical uncreative Google reliance on useless statistics. This is why Google produces horrible APIs and Googlers often cannot code (seen in various OSS projects).
- bhickey 8y ago> “Good students are good at all things.” This is an unfounded and dangerous belief. Skills do not necessarily transfer. Ben Carson, for example, is by all accounts the most talented neurosurgeon to ever live. He doesn't give the impression of being qualified as a federal administrator. Another example -- back in school we had a physics Nobel Laureate who decided he was a biologist. Despite all indications to the contrary he was taken seriously in this endeavor.
- WalterSear 8y agoHe's nothing of the sort: he's a hatchetman of last resort.
- walshemj 8y agoNo they are not real polymaths are incredibly rare and don't fit the mould that rote learning and getting a 4.0. They only one close to a real polymath I know started a company when young sold it out for $$ at a young age then decided to get a Phd in music - after a bad accident whist in traction taught himself programming - oh and was also a session musician and played on top 10 hits
- dschuler 8y agoYour comments are hard to read because they parse ambiguously. It could be "No, they are not real. Polymaths are...", or it could begin "No, they are not real polymaths...". This makes me wonder how Latin could do without punctuation.
- stochastic_monk 8y agoLook at Watson from Watson & Crick to see that even doing one thing well in a field doesn’t imply doing other good work in the same field, let alone the other issues.
- Alex3917 8y ago> Kind of a stunning misconception right there. A person only needs to look in the mirror, to invalidate such an idea. It's shocking because making a statement like that seems almost incompatible with being an intelligent person. If that quote isn't misrepresenting her beliefs, it really raises quite a number of questions.
- mariodiana 8y agoI'm inclined to think that "good students" are very often intelligent people pleasers who will drive themselves to achieve in order to win the attention of teachers, parents, awards committees, and friends and neighbors. These students often are "good at all things"—if our evaluation criteria is earning good grades in school. Good grades in school, nevertheless, only means so much. Perhaps Ms. Mayer is most comfortable hiring such people.
- nikofeyn 8y agoit’s the first sentence that really gets me. “More often than not, she relies on charts, graphs and quantitative analysis as a foundation for a decision, particularly when it comes to evaluating people …” what a travesty that misses the entire point. seems she doesn’t hire people but rather resources.
- walshemj 8y agoSounds like some one the neurodiversity spectrum but doesn't realise her limitations and make any attempt to learn coping strategies.
- zdragnar 8y ago> “Good students are good at all things.” If you're going by grades, then odds are what you're really selecting for is students who are good at the things they felt safe taking, not those who challenged themselves.
- rootlocus 8y agoMy university colleagues who got straight A's were mostly mediocre but had very good memory, learned only what was needed for the test, and occasionally cheated. Most of them didn't understand how things worked, but they memorized everything possible. On the opposite side, I had colleagues who passed some courses with flying colors (sometimes going so far as to being exempt from taking the final test due to their prowess during the semester), but failed other, unrelated courses, because they simply didn't care. From my experience, I have zero faith in grades.
- sjg007 8y agoI'm pretty sure that Google realized that this type of screening didn't work and dropped the GPA and associated requirements. There was a big article about it in the New York Times I believe.
- akhilcacharya 8y agoI mean, if you look at the average Stanford CS student (as she was) they're probably at least mildly above average at all of the things they do academically. I know several with > 4.0 there while still being chess grandmasters or incredible in music.
- rajacombinator 8y agoIt’s not really stunning but actually a moderately reasonable and commonplace middlebrow misconception. (Still incorrect though.)