11 ms·

Road safety tips from Sweden

53 points by CraneWorm 9y ago

bartkappenburg 9y ago
Here's a map that shows how many deaths in traffic are occuring per 1 million inhabitants in europe: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png
- silvestrov 9y ago
  The corresponding number of fatalities in USA is 115.9 per 1 million inhabitants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...
- kalleboo 9y ago
  I thought the relevant statistic was deaths per kilometer traveled? Otherwise you get countries where people simply drive more skewed higher despite any given ride being just as safe/safer.
  - hippish 9y ago
    Yeah, that ought to skew the results a bit. Looks like the top countries remain the same though https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/road-safety-annual-report-2017/road-fatalities-per-billion-vehicle-kilometres-2015_irtad-2017-graph2-en#page1 https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/road-safety-annual-...
  - sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
    There are a lot of ways to slice the data, and each of them tells a different part of the story. Suppose two countries have the exact same number of fatalities per km, and the same population, but one country drives twice as much. It is still a relevant fact that the country that drives twice as much has twice as many deaths. Policies that discourage driving will help reduce death rates in that country.
    - briandear 9y ago
      Assuming death rates from driving are the only death rates affected. There are unintended consequences worth studying.
      - kalleboo 9y ago
        It certainly can get very complex. Diesel emissions vs electric cars. Emissions in a city where everyone is inhaling the pollution vs in the countryside where it disperses quickly...
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    Infrastructure that forces you to drive more is more dangerous. Do we measure "deaths per bullet purchased"? Shorter drives means fewer deaths, generally speaking.
- klausjensen 9y ago
  Source for the above, but interactive. Check out the infographic, where you can "turn back time" and see how much traffict deaths have been reduced. Europe goes from almost bright red to green/yellow over 15 years.
  - ygra 9y ago
    I'm assuming you meant to share the following: https://infogram.com/road_safety_progress_2016 https://infogram.com/road_safety_progress_2016
- TomK32 9y ago
  In Greece you can buy little metal plugs for your sealtbelt socket so you don't have to use the seatbelt and don't get the error beeps from the car. I'm sure it does contribute to the fatality rate.
  - sjwright 9y ago
    I don't get why anyone would want that. At no time in the two decades I've been driving a car, I've never, ever, ever thought to myself "This seatbelt is annoying, I wish I didn't have to use it." I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger.
    - Freak_NL 9y ago
      That is the normal response in countries that completed the cultural transition from 'no seatbelts' to 'never without a seatbelt', but not all countries started this transition at the same time, and some will take longer than others due to various cultural and political factors, such as the actual risk of getting fined for the offense and the effect of the publicity campaigns. Not using a seatbelt was the norm only fifty years ago.
      - yodsanklai 9y ago
        I remember when we made the transition in my country, about 35 years ago. My mother was pissed off that the government forced her to use the seatbelt. She got herself a doctor note stating she couldn't use it for medical reasons... And a little more recently, people were complaining when we had to wear it on the rear seats, or in buses.
        wink 9y ago
        Maybe it's also how your parents prime you with the necessity. While seatbelts for cars have been mandatory since 1976 in Germany for trucks over 3.5t it's only been since 1992 and I do remember riding in a truck that didn't even have seatbelts (thus it was still ok to ride without) in the early 90s and have an uneasy feeling. Maybe my parents were adamant enough to always wear a seatbelt in the car (at the same time)... Wouldn't say I was scared, but apparently I believed them it was a good thing :P
- VeejayRampay 9y ago
  Note that any stats about France should mention that French roads are some of the busiest in Europe, because we're at the crossroads of everything (lots of truck traffic coming from Germany / Portugal / Spain / Italy / The Netherlands on the highways for example).
icc97 9y ago
90% of the article is about forward/backward facing child seats. But also the article spells out the the paper it was based on falsely claimed there was a significant difference between them and was retracted, restudied and agreed to not be statistically significant. Then it goes on to say, that Sweden does use rear-facing seats as though that somehow proves that there is a statistical significance. Seems like the article could have been cut down to these two paragraphs: > Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. Roads rely more on roundabouts, less on intersections. Cars are not allowed to turn at all when pedestrians are crossing. There are national camera enforcement policies. Sweden also focuses on pedestrian bridges, and separates cars from bicycles and oncoming traffic. > Far fewer people drive under the influence of alcohol; stricter policing has reduced impaired driving to less than 0.25 percent of tested drivers vs. about 1.5 percent of American drivers. (Sweden also has a more stringent definition of driving under the influence, 0.02 percent vs. 0.08 percent.) The speed limit in areas where cars might come into contact with pedestrians (think all of New York City) is less than 20 m.p.h. Speed bumps and other traffic-calming interventions are common. The average cost of obtaining a driver’s license is the equivalent of more than $1,800.
- distances 9y ago
  > Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. I sometimes wonder how it would be possible to just adopt new laws and regulations wholesale from countries that have aimed to do a thing well, and succeeded. I know countries take ideas from each other, but it always seems to be small things and adapted with local modifications. Laws are obviously not for "move fast and break things" approach, but feels like we could achieve so much more.
  - athenot 9y ago
    Yes. But laws must fit within a given culture. Different cultures have different risk appreciation.
  - berg01 9y ago
    Kind of related: There's a small Swedish state-owned (soon to be privatized though) consulting company with about 15 people that exists with the sole purpose of exporting this know-how to other countries. It's been relatively successful in selected developing countries. The know-how is typically given away for free, only actual work (training etc) is charged for. http://www.sweroad.se/ http://www.sweroad.se/ They haven't been hugely successful though. I hear there's often way too much national pride and similar factors ("our country is unique because irrelevant factors X, Y and Z") involved. These people have an odd mix of a) satisfaction because they are helping people not get... killed or maimed b) but also an extreme amount of banging your head against the wall kind of moments Anyway, if you want to implement road safety quickly in your country, they are who you should go to.
lemming 9y ago
Our 4 year old daughter uses a Swedish rear-facing car seat, and she seems fine with it. I'm sure she would prefer a front facing one because she'd be able to see more, but since she was 3 she's been able to see pretty well. It's definitely not uncomfortably small for her. A woman asked a friend of ours "how do you get your kid to eat brown bread?" and our friend replied "she doesn't know there's any other kind". I think the same applies here - we've never had a problem with the seat because she almost never goes in a front-facing one. Even when she has used a friend's seat for whatever reason, it's never been an issue getting her back into hers. And she's a pretty argumentative kid.
- foreigner 9y ago
  My kids are a little older, but I've used the same strategy with bicycle helmets. There's never any argument about using them, because they've simply never been in a bicycle without a helmet, not seen me ride without one.
  - JetSetWilly 9y ago
    It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your kid ride about without body armour on.
    - aesclepius 9y ago
      While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protection does not improve overall morbidity and mortality.
TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
Another way to reduce road accidents would be to reduce Americans' dependence on cars. Better for the environment too.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  It's not dependence, it's preference. Americans (and most everyone else) like to control their 4-vecor.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    It works both ways, if the majority drives then you are left with no infrastructure for people who don't drive, hence you become dependent on driving.
  - abelsson 9y ago
    Having spent quite a bit of time in the US, I've noticed that getting somewhere there takes about the same amount time as home (which happens to be Sweden, hence me clicking the link). As an anecdotal example, some common times for me were about as follows: Going to work, 15 minutes. Grocery store, 5 minutes. Larger shopping mall, 30 minutes. The difference is that in the US that time is spent driving, while home it's walking/biking. So my control of my local 4-vector is essentially equivalent, just with a different space scaling factor applied.
    - jakeogh 9y ago
      I can get anywhere in my local city in the time it takes me to jump in my car and drive there. Comparing that with walking to a bus stop and waiting for it to get near my destination is not even remotely close, _and I wouldn't want to even if it was faster_. Talking about speed (while important) ignores the ability to instantly change your plan. Your experience might work in a closely spaced situation (hence your odd comparison of moving at a magnitude difference velocity), where most people pick the same mall and live close to eachother, but that's not how large countries work.
alkonaut 9y ago
Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size. One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of space in the car, if you want to fit more people in it. A rear facing seat for a 3yo behind the front passenger seat will make the front passenger space tiny in all but the largest cars. If you look around europe you'll find that countries that traditionally use small cars (France, Italy, Britain) probably don't use rear facing seats as much. What part of this is cause and what is effect I don't know, but you won't find many families with small children driving compact cars in Sweden like you do in say the UK or Italy. I saw someone in the UK describe a golf as a "family hatchback" at one point. That person hadn't been in the front passenger seat of a Golf with a rear facing child seat behind (The front seat is then nearly touching the glove compartment).
- rightnow 9y ago
  Father of two twin kids at 3.5 years. Its not hard at all. They climb in themselves, and if u have a seat with adjustable iso-fix bars you get enough room for the front seats.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    It likely depends on the size of the child, the type of seat and the type of car (how much space you can leave begind the seat as the child grows longer). With my second I got a better seat that probably added another 10cm.
  - Steltek 9y ago
    How do larger rear facing seats even fit in smaller European cars? Is your front passenger seat folded all the way down? When we were last car shopping, we looked at small SUVs (CRV, Rav4, Forester) and a rear facing seat mounted "American-style" still intruded on the passenger seat. I can't imagine how you could shift the seat forwards in a sedan and make it work.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jopsen 9y ago
This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)
- briandear 9y ago
  How about just enforcing the speed limit? Speed humps on a road designed for 30 often require slowing to 10. Clearly you have never driven or worked in an ambulance or in emergency services.
  - jopsen 9y ago
    Fair point... It's not great for emergency services. But it's great for residential neighborhoods, and city limits.
- berg01 9y ago
  I think you'll enjoy this 15 minute documentary on a particular bus trap in Stockholm: https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=visa https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=v... Much of it is in English since many of the victims are tourists. (I think this an excellent example of an anti-pattern.)
  - jopsen 9y ago
    The signs clearly says busses only. Why shouldn't there be a price to pay :)
    - berg01 9y ago
      Ha! We have a swearword for vindictive people like you in Sweden. It's "miljöpartist". Prounonced "millowepartist".
- 9y ago
bjoli 9y ago
We also don't hand out driver's licenses left and right to anyone with the ability to find the correct pedals. From what I have seen in the states, you average bad swedish driver would be an american interstate wunderkind.
- jlarsson89 9y ago
  On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.
  - croon 9y ago
    I don't think that detracts any from the initial point. Step one is still to initially only award licenses to competent drivers. That more can be done is (I suspect) a perpetual truth.
    - jlarsson89 9y ago
      I agree, but to live up to that system those that are no longer competent should have it taken away. As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed.
      - croon 9y ago
        > As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed. That is correct. However, this is also true in the US. So since neither requires retaking any tests upon renewal, Swedish drivers (assuming initial premise to be correct) will always be better than their US counterparts, on a proportional decline over time on a graph. I agree that there might be something to do there, but it is again not invalidating the initial statement.
andrewaylett 9y ago
We've got our toddler a Hauck seat, and we're very happy with it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HGH89JI https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HGH89JI He moved into it from a baby seat, so he's never regularly used a front-facing seat. He can still see out well enough to see what's going on, and to comment when we don't go the way he's expecting. He's three at the moment, and we fully expect to keep him rear-facing until he's four. Our older children had to move into a front-facing seats earlier because there wasn't really a choice. But there is now, and I know a couple of other people who have also gone down this route.

53 points by CraneWorm 9y ago

Here's a map that shows how many deaths in traffic are occuring per 1 million inhabitants in europe: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png

silvestrov 9y ago
The corresponding number of fatalities in USA is 115.9 per 1 million inhabitants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...
kalleboo 9y ago
I thought the relevant statistic was deaths per kilometer traveled? Otherwise you get countries where people simply drive more skewed higher despite any given ride being just as safe/safer.
- hippish 9y ago
  Yeah, that ought to skew the results a bit. Looks like the top countries remain the same though https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/road-safety-annual-report-2017/road-fatalities-per-billion-vehicle-kilometres-2015_irtad-2017-graph2-en#page1 https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/transport/road-safety-annual-...
- sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
  There are a lot of ways to slice the data, and each of them tells a different part of the story. Suppose two countries have the exact same number of fatalities per km, and the same population, but one country drives twice as much. It is still a relevant fact that the country that drives twice as much has twice as many deaths. Policies that discourage driving will help reduce death rates in that country.
  - briandear 9y ago
    Assuming death rates from driving are the only death rates affected. There are unintended consequences worth studying.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      It certainly can get very complex. Diesel emissions vs electric cars. Emissions in a city where everyone is inhaling the pollution vs in the countryside where it disperses quickly...
- CalRobert 9y ago
  Infrastructure that forces you to drive more is more dangerous. Do we measure "deaths per bullet purchased"? Shorter drives means fewer deaths, generally speaking.
klausjensen 9y ago
Source for the above, but interactive. Check out the infographic, where you can "turn back time" and see how much traffict deaths have been reduced. Europe goes from almost bright red to green/yellow over 15 years.
- ygra 9y ago
  I'm assuming you meant to share the following: https://infogram.com/road_safety_progress_2016 https://infogram.com/road_safety_progress_2016
TomK32 9y ago
In Greece you can buy little metal plugs for your sealtbelt socket so you don't have to use the seatbelt and don't get the error beeps from the car. I'm sure it does contribute to the fatality rate.
- sjwright 9y ago
  I don't get why anyone would want that. At no time in the two decades I've been driving a car, I've never, ever, ever thought to myself "This seatbelt is annoying, I wish I didn't have to use it." I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger.
  - Freak_NL 9y ago
    That is the normal response in countries that completed the cultural transition from 'no seatbelts' to 'never without a seatbelt', but not all countries started this transition at the same time, and some will take longer than others due to various cultural and political factors, such as the actual risk of getting fined for the offense and the effect of the publicity campaigns. Not using a seatbelt was the norm only fifty years ago.
    - yodsanklai 9y ago
      I remember when we made the transition in my country, about 35 years ago. My mother was pissed off that the government forced her to use the seatbelt. She got herself a doctor note stating she couldn't use it for medical reasons... And a little more recently, people were complaining when we had to wear it on the rear seats, or in buses.
      - wink 9y ago
        Maybe it's also how your parents prime you with the necessity. While seatbelts for cars have been mandatory since 1976 in Germany for trucks over 3.5t it's only been since 1992 and I do remember riding in a truck that didn't even have seatbelts (thus it was still ok to ride without) in the early 90s and have an uneasy feeling. Maybe my parents were adamant enough to always wear a seatbelt in the car (at the same time)... Wouldn't say I was scared, but apparently I believed them it was a good thing :P
VeejayRampay 9y ago
Note that any stats about France should mention that French roads are some of the busiest in Europe, because we're at the crossroads of everything (lots of truck traffic coming from Germany / Portugal / Spain / Italy / The Netherlands on the highways for example).

icc97 9y ago

90% of the article is about forward/backward facing child seats. But also the article spells out the the paper it was based on falsely claimed there was a significant difference between them and was retracted, restudied and agreed to not be statistically significant. Then it goes on to say, that Sweden does use rear-facing seats as though that somehow proves that there is a statistical significance. Seems like the article could have been cut down to these two paragraphs: > Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. Roads rely more on roundabouts, less on intersections. Cars are not allowed to turn at all when pedestrians are crossing. There are national camera enforcement policies. Sweden also focuses on pedestrian bridges, and separates cars from bicycles and oncoming traffic. > Far fewer people drive under the influence of alcohol; stricter policing has reduced impaired driving to less than 0.25 percent of tested drivers vs. about 1.5 percent of American drivers. (Sweden also has a more stringent definition of driving under the influence, 0.02 percent vs. 0.08 percent.) The speed limit in areas where cars might come into contact with pedestrians (think all of New York City) is less than 20 m.p.h. Speed bumps and other traffic-calming interventions are common. The average cost of obtaining a driver’s license is the equivalent of more than $1,800.

distances 9y ago
> Because accidents are inevitable, Swedish regulations aim to make them nonlethal. I sometimes wonder how it would be possible to just adopt new laws and regulations wholesale from countries that have aimed to do a thing well, and succeeded. I know countries take ideas from each other, but it always seems to be small things and adapted with local modifications. Laws are obviously not for "move fast and break things" approach, but feels like we could achieve so much more.
- athenot 9y ago
  Yes. But laws must fit within a given culture. Different cultures have different risk appreciation.
- berg01 9y ago
  Kind of related: There's a small Swedish state-owned (soon to be privatized though) consulting company with about 15 people that exists with the sole purpose of exporting this know-how to other countries. It's been relatively successful in selected developing countries. The know-how is typically given away for free, only actual work (training etc) is charged for. http://www.sweroad.se/ http://www.sweroad.se/ They haven't been hugely successful though. I hear there's often way too much national pride and similar factors ("our country is unique because irrelevant factors X, Y and Z") involved. These people have an odd mix of a) satisfaction because they are helping people not get... killed or maimed b) but also an extreme amount of banging your head against the wall kind of moments Anyway, if you want to implement road safety quickly in your country, they are who you should go to.

lemming 9y ago

Our 4 year old daughter uses a Swedish rear-facing car seat, and she seems fine with it. I'm sure she would prefer a front facing one because she'd be able to see more, but since she was 3 she's been able to see pretty well. It's definitely not uncomfortably small for her. A woman asked a friend of ours "how do you get your kid to eat brown bread?" and our friend replied "she doesn't know there's any other kind". I think the same applies here - we've never had a problem with the seat because she almost never goes in a front-facing one. Even when she has used a friend's seat for whatever reason, it's never been an issue getting her back into hers. And she's a pretty argumentative kid.

foreigner 9y ago
My kids are a little older, but I've used the same strategy with bicycle helmets. There's never any argument about using them, because they've simply never been in a bicycle without a helmet, not seen me ride without one.
- JetSetWilly 9y ago
  It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your kid ride about without body armour on.
  - aesclepius 9y ago
    While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protection does not improve overall morbidity and mortality.

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago

Another way to reduce road accidents would be to reduce Americans' dependence on cars. Better for the environment too.

jakeogh 9y ago
It's not dependence, it's preference. Americans (and most everyone else) like to control their 4-vecor.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  It works both ways, if the majority drives then you are left with no infrastructure for people who don't drive, hence you become dependent on driving.
- abelsson 9y ago
  Having spent quite a bit of time in the US, I've noticed that getting somewhere there takes about the same amount time as home (which happens to be Sweden, hence me clicking the link). As an anecdotal example, some common times for me were about as follows: Going to work, 15 minutes. Grocery store, 5 minutes. Larger shopping mall, 30 minutes. The difference is that in the US that time is spent driving, while home it's walking/biking. So my control of my local 4-vector is essentially equivalent, just with a different space scaling factor applied.
  - jakeogh 9y ago
    I can get anywhere in my local city in the time it takes me to jump in my car and drive there. Comparing that with walking to a bus stop and waiting for it to get near my destination is not even remotely close, _and I wouldn't want to even if it was faster_. Talking about speed (while important) ignores the ability to instantly change your plan. Your experience might work in a closely spaced situation (hence your odd comparison of moving at a magnitude difference velocity), where most people pick the same mall and live close to eachother, but that's not how large countries work.

alkonaut 9y ago

Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size. One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of space in the car, if you want to fit more people in it. A rear facing seat for a 3yo behind the front passenger seat will make the front passenger space tiny in all but the largest cars. If you look around europe you'll find that countries that traditionally use small cars (France, Italy, Britain) probably don't use rear facing seats as much. What part of this is cause and what is effect I don't know, but you won't find many families with small children driving compact cars in Sweden like you do in say the UK or Italy. I saw someone in the UK describe a golf as a "family hatchback" at one point. That person hadn't been in the front passenger seat of a Golf with a rear facing child seat behind (The front seat is then nearly touching the glove compartment).

rightnow 9y ago
Father of two twin kids at 3.5 years. Its not hard at all. They climb in themselves, and if u have a seat with adjustable iso-fix bars you get enough room for the front seats.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  It likely depends on the size of the child, the type of seat and the type of car (how much space you can leave begind the seat as the child grows longer). With my second I got a better seat that probably added another 10cm.
- Steltek 9y ago
  How do larger rear facing seats even fit in smaller European cars? Is your front passenger seat folded all the way down? When we were last car shopping, we looked at small SUVs (CRV, Rav4, Forester) and a rear facing seat mounted "American-style" still intruded on the passenger seat. I can't imagine how you could shift the seat forwards in a sedan and make it work.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jopsen 9y ago

This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)

briandear 9y ago
How about just enforcing the speed limit? Speed humps on a road designed for 30 often require slowing to 10. Clearly you have never driven or worked in an ambulance or in emergency services.
- jopsen 9y ago
  Fair point... It's not great for emergency services. But it's great for residential neighborhoods, and city limits.
berg01 9y ago
I think you'll enjoy this 15 minute documentary on a particular bus trap in Stockholm: https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=visa https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=v... Much of it is in English since many of the victims are tourists. (I think this an excellent example of an anti-pattern.)
- jopsen 9y ago
  The signs clearly says busses only. Why shouldn't there be a price to pay :)
  - berg01 9y ago
    Ha! We have a swearword for vindictive people like you in Sweden. It's "miljöpartist". Prounonced "millowepartist".
9y ago

bjoli 9y ago

We also don't hand out driver's licenses left and right to anyone with the ability to find the correct pedals. From what I have seen in the states, you average bad swedish driver would be an american interstate wunderkind.

jlarsson89 9y ago
On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.
- croon 9y ago
  I don't think that detracts any from the initial point. Step one is still to initially only award licenses to competent drivers. That more can be done is (I suspect) a perpetual truth.
  - jlarsson89 9y ago
    I agree, but to live up to that system those that are no longer competent should have it taken away. As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed.
    - croon 9y ago
      > As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed. That is correct. However, this is also true in the US. So since neither requires retaking any tests upon renewal, Swedish drivers (assuming initial premise to be correct) will always be better than their US counterparts, on a proportional decline over time on a graph. I agree that there might be something to do there, but it is again not invalidating the initial statement.

andrewaylett 9y ago

We've got our toddler a Hauck seat, and we're very happy with it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HGH89JI https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HGH89JI He moved into it from a baby seat, so he's never regularly used a front-facing seat. He can still see out well enough to see what's going on, and to comment when we don't go the way he's expecting. He's three at the moment, and we fully expect to keep him rear-facing until he's four. Our older children had to move into a front-facing seats earlier because there wasn't really a choice. But there is now, and I know a couple of other people who have also gone down this route.