4 ms·

Ideally I would periodically track my diet for a few weeks and only supplement for deficiencies, but I've found that when I track what I'm eating, I eat differe

Ideally I would periodically track my diet for a few weeks and only supplement for deficiencies, but I've found that when I track what I'm eating, I eat differently. So instead I take half a multivitamin to ensure I'm not totally deficient in anything. Reasoning: > On this point, let me emphasize the logical corollary which I've spelled out repeatedly but that people keep missing: unless your diet is composed entirely of fries, Coke, and fast-food burgers with the lettuce, ketchup, and tomato thrown out, no one should be taking a full daily dose of any commercial multivitamin. You are absolutely guaranteed to get too much of many nutrients, and to create or exacerbate imbalances in others. From: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:a9-5VyWVsH0J:www.longecity.org/forum/stacks/stack/122-michaels-tiered-supplement/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:a9-5VyW...

Jolter 9y ago
What does it cost to go to a doctor and get tested for deficiency? You'd only need to do that once a decade or after implementing major changes to your diet. I have a feeling it would come out to less than your strategy of eating pills "just in case".
- freedomben 9y ago
  It's not quite that simple.. Firstly, it is surprisingly costly and it's getting more so because of several factors (a big one being insurance company regulation around requiring tests to be linked to diagnosis codes. This makes the doctor look bad for giving "unnecessary tests" which in turn makes them not want to give you a test if there isn't clinical evidence to warrant it, regardless of your desire and willingness to pay for it). Secondly, you need to be tested much more often than once a decade. Levels can vary wildly based on diet in sometimes complicated ways. For example? Vitamin D levels are dropping despite no changes in vitamin D intake (and sun exposure). This turns out to be a calcium deficiency, which is required for vitamin D absorption. The calcium deficiency in turn results from some other condition not necessarily related to diet. You also need to be re-tested potentially many times after beginning a supplement to determine if you are at the correct dose. In some cases when the supplement can be dangerous at high levels (such as Vitamin B6 or Iron) you need to be tested regularly for a while to ensure you aren't overdosing (especially B6 levels too high can cause nasty symptoms). Source: personal experience doing exactly this with a variety of vitamins and minerals
  - pigscantfly 9y ago
    You should find a doctor who doesn't take insurance. Out of pocket will be higher, but you can file for reimbursement yourself to offset some of the charges, and the doctor shouldn't have a problem offering a test.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >It's not quite that simple.. Firstly, it is surprisingly costly and it's getting more so because of several factors Well, in these parts of Europe it's like €50 or so.
- pkaye 9y ago
  The most common deficiencies are vitamin D, iron, magnesium, vitamin B12, and vitamin B9. Maybe $200-$300 to get them checked without insurance. I think most people shouldn't be concerned about supplements except vitamin D and iron. Just eat a varied diet.
- nradov 9y ago
  Tests for most of those micronutrients are not very precise, and actual blood levels can fluctuate widely from day to day or even hour by hour depending on what you just ate or how active you've been. So in order to establish a reliable baseline you'd have to do multiple lab tests spread out at various times over several days.
- snikeris 9y ago
  I don't think there are tests for everything. For example, a search for "choline deficiency test" didn't turn up anything for me.
- smileysteve 9y ago
  On the other hand, if deficient in anything, the generic multi-vitamin is likely much less expensive than a targeted vitamin.
gascan 9y ago
You could instead figure out how to incorporate dark leafy greens into your diet a few times a week. They are basically multivitamins in plant form. Have you ever had blanched & sauteed fresh spinach? Blanch for three minutes with a little salt, squeeze out water, saute gently at 4-6 on the dial in a little butter. Really good.
- therein 9y ago
  I think once they reach a certain age, people stop looking at vegetables as not tasty and they are simply not consumed as often due to either (a) the price or (b) the convenience. Otherwise, vegetables can of course be delicious.
- snikeris 9y ago
  Yeah good stuff, but I'd need to eat a ton of spinach to get enough selenium. This is my goto site for food prep information: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43 http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43 Looks like he also recommends blanching first, but doesn't call it that.
  - gascan 9y ago
    You probably already eat (chicken|beef|fish|turkey|egg) too though. (In fact, the spinach goes great with egg)
  - jmulho 9y ago
    But you only need to eat a few Brazil nuts to get enough selenium. More than four a day and you risk selenium toxicity. And they go great with spinach! And the fat increases absorption of fat soluble vitamins in the spinach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut
- LMYahooTFY 9y ago
  >instead While I generally agree, I don't think it's a universal prescription. There are biological defects that inhibit nutrient processing and can require you to take considerably more of said nutrient than you could feasibly acquire from diet.
m3kw9 9y ago
Sounds like quantum mechanics at work here.

Jolter 9y ago

What does it cost to go to a doctor and get tested for deficiency? You'd only need to do that once a decade or after implementing major changes to your diet. I have a feeling it would come out to less than your strategy of eating pills "just in case".

freedomben 9y ago
It's not quite that simple.. Firstly, it is surprisingly costly and it's getting more so because of several factors (a big one being insurance company regulation around requiring tests to be linked to diagnosis codes. This makes the doctor look bad for giving "unnecessary tests" which in turn makes them not want to give you a test if there isn't clinical evidence to warrant it, regardless of your desire and willingness to pay for it). Secondly, you need to be tested much more often than once a decade. Levels can vary wildly based on diet in sometimes complicated ways. For example? Vitamin D levels are dropping despite no changes in vitamin D intake (and sun exposure). This turns out to be a calcium deficiency, which is required for vitamin D absorption. The calcium deficiency in turn results from some other condition not necessarily related to diet. You also need to be re-tested potentially many times after beginning a supplement to determine if you are at the correct dose. In some cases when the supplement can be dangerous at high levels (such as Vitamin B6 or Iron) you need to be tested regularly for a while to ensure you aren't overdosing (especially B6 levels too high can cause nasty symptoms). Source: personal experience doing exactly this with a variety of vitamins and minerals
- pigscantfly 9y ago
  You should find a doctor who doesn't take insurance. Out of pocket will be higher, but you can file for reimbursement yourself to offset some of the charges, and the doctor shouldn't have a problem offering a test.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >It's not quite that simple.. Firstly, it is surprisingly costly and it's getting more so because of several factors Well, in these parts of Europe it's like €50 or so.
pkaye 9y ago
The most common deficiencies are vitamin D, iron, magnesium, vitamin B12, and vitamin B9. Maybe $200-$300 to get them checked without insurance. I think most people shouldn't be concerned about supplements except vitamin D and iron. Just eat a varied diet.
nradov 9y ago
Tests for most of those micronutrients are not very precise, and actual blood levels can fluctuate widely from day to day or even hour by hour depending on what you just ate or how active you've been. So in order to establish a reliable baseline you'd have to do multiple lab tests spread out at various times over several days.
snikeris 9y ago
I don't think there are tests for everything. For example, a search for "choline deficiency test" didn't turn up anything for me.
smileysteve 9y ago
On the other hand, if deficient in anything, the generic multi-vitamin is likely much less expensive than a targeted vitamin.

gascan 9y ago

You could instead figure out how to incorporate dark leafy greens into your diet a few times a week. They are basically multivitamins in plant form. Have you ever had blanched & sauteed fresh spinach? Blanch for three minutes with a little salt, squeeze out water, saute gently at 4-6 on the dial in a little butter. Really good.

therein 9y ago
I think once they reach a certain age, people stop looking at vegetables as not tasty and they are simply not consumed as often due to either (a) the price or (b) the convenience. Otherwise, vegetables can of course be delicious.
snikeris 9y ago
Yeah good stuff, but I'd need to eat a ton of spinach to get enough selenium. This is my goto site for food prep information: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43 http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43 Looks like he also recommends blanching first, but doesn't call it that.
- gascan 9y ago
  You probably already eat (chicken|beef|fish|turkey|egg) too though. (In fact, the spinach goes great with egg)
- jmulho 9y ago
  But you only need to eat a few Brazil nuts to get enough selenium. More than four a day and you risk selenium toxicity. And they go great with spinach! And the fat increases absorption of fat soluble vitamins in the spinach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut
LMYahooTFY 9y ago
>instead While I generally agree, I don't think it's a universal prescription. There are biological defects that inhibit nutrient processing and can require you to take considerably more of said nutrient than you could feasibly acquire from diet.

m3kw9 9y ago

Sounds like quantum mechanics at work here.