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> sleep in the dark I'm not sure what you're even trying to say. This is about chronotypes and a teenager-specific sleeping pattern that has been identified an

> sleep in the dark I'm not sure what you're even trying to say. This is about chronotypes and a teenager-specific sleeping pattern that has been identified and studied. Sleep deprivation is torture, this is not my definition. Sorry, we, as a society, decided that not letting people sleep properly is really fucking crappy. If you want to disagree with that, take that up with the party that came up with the terms. Messing with someone's sleep is a major offense, and there are various ways in which it can happen, and psychology recognizes them, even if you don't. Yes, I'm sure most teenagers have means to go to a sleep center, with their full human rights and disposable income. And when pretty much every teenager has this problem I'm sure that's a good use of resources.

watwut 9y ago
If you are sleep deprived to the point of "torture" you will fall asleep right during the day in noisy place. No study of teenagers sleep patterns found that they are tortured via sleep deprivation. That is lie.
- crooked-v 9y ago
  Uh... lots of high school students literally fall asleep in the middle of class. There's a reason it's a pop culture cliche.
  - watwut 9y ago
    That is not caused by different natural rhytme, that is caused by them not going to sleep till they are exhausted. It does not happen if they are not allowed to watch TV or browse the net or chat of social whatever and are sent to bed by parents. That pop culture cliché also have only kids who don't give a fuck about anything doing that. And it is fuelled by it being perceived as cool. Overwhelming majority of students don't sleep during class.
    - crooked-v 9y ago
      I mentioned it because I was one of those kids. There was nothing "cool" about it, and I found my persistent insomnia, relative to high school schedules, frustrating at best. I got detentions several times for falling asleep in the middle of classes I personally found interesting.
      - watwut 9y ago
        I am pretty confident that that level of insomnia is not cause by normal teenager sleep patterns. If you can't sleep so much that you sleep in sch ool, then your problem is medical.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
I don't know about this man... I get your point but it's a little over dramatic. My 13 year old girl lives with us half the time. Her other parent the other part of the time. They let her keep her phone with her all the time. She can completely skip sleeping entirely for more than 2 days when she has her phone all night, texting with friends. She's having fun, but then she crashes and burns HARD when she comes back to our house. Get's sick, can't focus, emotions out of control. At my house we take her phone away at 10:00pm, and she is passed out 5 minutes later. Funny thing is, I sometimes take away the phone on Sunday, in the afternoon, and she will pass out 5-10 minutes after that too. Her body just needs a lot more sleep than it is getting. This is probably true with a lot of adults too. We use electronic stimulus to keep us going far beyond our "natural rhythms". Take those away and people can sleep. If the natural rhythm of a teenager is to be unable to sleep until 2:00am, what are they supposed to do if they ever change time zones? People may have a naturally tendency to be a night owl or whatever, but that is hardly the most important element in the sleep deprivation story going on right now.
- matwood 9y ago
  This. I mentioned up above that I've always been a morning person along with most of my friends. But, I didn't grow up with a device attached to me. Most of my activities growing up were outside. Going to school early meant more daylight after school to play. Even on weekends I was up with the sun, and often earlier since the surf was typically better early. All spring and summer we would be up at ~4:30am to go fishing. Kids staring at devices all hours of the day has had an enormous impact on their lives that I'm not sure we fully understand yet.
  - newfoundglory 9y ago
    I've never been a morning person. Always been awake late and struggled to wake up in the morning. Imagine how it feels to have people dismiss this as a problem with screen time when I grew up without any screens! (Literally - not even a TV).
    - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
Dylan16807 9y ago
Enforcing sleep deprivation is torture. But that goes far beyond having a terrible wake-up hour. If you can sleep freely in the same 12 hour window each day, you're not being forcibly sleep deprived.

watwut 9y ago

If you are sleep deprived to the point of "torture" you will fall asleep right during the day in noisy place. No study of teenagers sleep patterns found that they are tortured via sleep deprivation. That is lie.

crooked-v 9y ago
Uh... lots of high school students literally fall asleep in the middle of class. There's a reason it's a pop culture cliche.
- watwut 9y ago
  That is not caused by different natural rhytme, that is caused by them not going to sleep till they are exhausted. It does not happen if they are not allowed to watch TV or browse the net or chat of social whatever and are sent to bed by parents. That pop culture cliché also have only kids who don't give a fuck about anything doing that. And it is fuelled by it being perceived as cool. Overwhelming majority of students don't sleep during class.
  - crooked-v 9y ago
    I mentioned it because I was one of those kids. There was nothing "cool" about it, and I found my persistent insomnia, relative to high school schedules, frustrating at best. I got detentions several times for falling asleep in the middle of classes I personally found interesting.
    - watwut 9y ago
      I am pretty confident that that level of insomnia is not cause by normal teenager sleep patterns. If you can't sleep so much that you sleep in sch ool, then your problem is medical.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

I don't know about this man... I get your point but it's a little over dramatic. My 13 year old girl lives with us half the time. Her other parent the other part of the time. They let her keep her phone with her all the time. She can completely skip sleeping entirely for more than 2 days when she has her phone all night, texting with friends. She's having fun, but then she crashes and burns HARD when she comes back to our house. Get's sick, can't focus, emotions out of control. At my house we take her phone away at 10:00pm, and she is passed out 5 minutes later. Funny thing is, I sometimes take away the phone on Sunday, in the afternoon, and she will pass out 5-10 minutes after that too. Her body just needs a lot more sleep than it is getting. This is probably true with a lot of adults too. We use electronic stimulus to keep us going far beyond our "natural rhythms". Take those away and people can sleep. If the natural rhythm of a teenager is to be unable to sleep until 2:00am, what are they supposed to do if they ever change time zones? People may have a naturally tendency to be a night owl or whatever, but that is hardly the most important element in the sleep deprivation story going on right now.

matwood 9y ago
This. I mentioned up above that I've always been a morning person along with most of my friends. But, I didn't grow up with a device attached to me. Most of my activities growing up were outside. Going to school early meant more daylight after school to play. Even on weekends I was up with the sun, and often earlier since the surf was typically better early. All spring and summer we would be up at ~4:30am to go fishing. Kids staring at devices all hours of the day has had an enormous impact on their lives that I'm not sure we fully understand yet.
- newfoundglory 9y ago
  I've never been a morning person. Always been awake late and struggled to wake up in the morning. Imagine how it feels to have people dismiss this as a problem with screen time when I grew up without any screens! (Literally - not even a TV).
  - mrhappyunhappy 9y ago

Dylan16807 9y ago

Enforcing sleep deprivation is torture. But that goes far beyond having a terrible wake-up hour. If you can sleep freely in the same 12 hour window each day, you're not being forcibly sleep deprived.