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Texas woman sentenced to 5 years in prison for voting while on probation
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- coding123 9y agoCan't you just hear those white Texans: "We'll show her". I don't think any comment on that site sums it up more than that one.
- gpm 9y agoThat's a pretty damn racist comment. I'm sure it is not every white Texan, and I am sure it is not only white Texan's but also Texan's of other races. Is the relevant group predominantly white? Yes, probably. That doesn't make it acceptable to paint all white people with that brush. Imagine if I made a similar comment about black people and shootings.
- lukeschlather 9y agoThe difference is power. Denigrating a politically weak group like black people is just bullying. Denigrating the dominant group is standing up to power.
- xyzzyz 9y agoSure, which is why denigrating black people in media and corporate setting is completely acceptable, while denigrating whites is shunned and can easily get you fired. Oh wait, I meant the other way around.
- Dirlewanger 9y agoYup, you're sure showing all those poor whites in Appalachia and countless rural counties!
- ygaf 9y agoIn other words, you're blind as to whether denigration is justified.
- lukeschlather 9y agoNot blind, but to make a really stark example, there's a difference between mocking someone when you have a gun to their head, and mocking someone who has a gun to your head. The former is just adding insult to injury, the latter is stupid but a little brave at the same time.
- ygaf 9y agoIn the former example you have so much power that whatever cause you had to denigrate them no longer matters to you, but that is neither the common case nor principled.
- 394852034 9y agoWhat a vile and racist thing to say. You're disgusting.
- scarecrowbob 9y agoWell, as a white guy in Texas , "not all white Texans" isn't the most helpful response. Regardless of the last name of the judge in this case, your comment more or less meets with my experiences. This conviction is a pretty fucking vile turn of events, and it is fundamentally tied to the racist fears about voter fraud that are, themselves, sublated attempts to prevent "illegitimate" populations from voting: "It's very much about voter intimidation: “I don’t think I’ll ever vote again,” she told the news outlet after her indictment. “That’s being honest. I’ll never vote again.”" The vast majority of folks in Texas are, IMO, racist, and often in ways that they don't understand. Like, they are often not Klan members. But they do often think that "hispanics" are simultaneous "lazy" and willing to out work them to "take their jobs". This conviction is yet another example of that kind of bigotry... it just seems like a natural, common sense kind of thing to the racists in Texas (note that I didn't say all Texans, thanks). These are common ideas here among the white folks, who largely are the folks who have the political power to make crazy, fantasy-based laws about voting practices and then equal power to create and enforce these laws. This woman is basically a sacrifice on the alter to reifying those fantasies about voter fraud. And the people here are indeed very much about retributive, rather than restorative or transformative justice. So on that account, yes, you're totally right: this conviction is 100% about the happy reification of a fantasy that people are out to commit fraud. This lady is basically a sacrifice to that fantasy: “This case shows how serious Texas is about keeping its elections secure, and the outcome sends a message that violators of the state’s election law will be prosecuted to the fullest,” Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said after Ortega was sentenced. ” So fuck Ken Paxton, and fuck anybody who thinks that this is a reasonable kind of thing.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- phonon 9y agoAn aside, can you explain your usage of the word "sublated"? Is that referring to "Aufheben"?[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufheben https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufheben
- 9y ago
- p3llin0r3 9y agoThis is a feature, not a bug. The prison system is designed to drag you in and keep you in. Just disgusting.
- akuji1993 9y agoYep, that's exactly what a private prison system leads to. You can see the system working as intended here. 5 years is... just ridiculous. There's no words for this kind of injustice.
- thatswrong0 9y agoPrivate prisons have basically nothing to do with this. They house very little of the prison population (less than 10% IIRC)
- Guvante 9y agoPrivate prisons lead to lobbying for harsher convictions to improve the bottom line of those prisons, that is why they often come up.
- evanpw 9y agoSo do police and prison guards' unions, and they're much larger: https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/02/are-for-profit-prisons-or-public-unions https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/02/are-for-profit-prisons-or....
- Retric 9y agoPrison guard unions and private prisons are effectively the same thing. They are both groups that directly benefit by increasing the prison population.
- enraged_camel 9y ago>>Private prisons have basically nothing to do with this. Incorrect. Private prisons have lobbyists that contaminate the system further upstream to ensure a steady supply of inmates. They do this by lobbying legislators for harsher prison sentences on trivial crimes.
- chomp 9y agoFelon disenfranchisement by state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement#In_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement#In_t...
- sitepodmatt 9y agoWow that is fucked up, and yet sadly I think state side HN readers will rage more about the use of "loaded" words like blacklist, whitelist, slave database, dog balls (for javascript brackets) and so on before focusing on real problems - but where is the fun in that. There's a good documentary about Texas throwing kids in the jail for trivial crimes for multiple years that highlights how retarded the system is (beyond this case), can't find title at the moment grr..
- dmode 9y agoWhat a disgusting story. How come the State is so vindictive towards the weak and so powerless against people who starts unjustified wars or brings down the financial system ?
- sexoffender 9y agoTheir hope is that maybe they'll be able to change the future for the better by making an example of someone, even if they have to be excessive, cruel, or unjust toward that person. They're justifying the means by the hoped end.
- blackbagboys 9y agoA more prosaic and more likely explanation is that states controlled by the Republican party seek to suppress black voting by any means possible because it's a threat to their hold on power.
- cgriswald 9y agoI find that explanation unlikely. First, the vast majority of states have some type of voting restrictions on felons, with Maine and Vermont being the only exceptions. Second, some states historically and modernly controlled by the Republican party (e.g. Montana) return the right to vote after release. Third, among states with harsher restrictions (ending after parole or probation) that are historically OR modernly Republican controlled (ignoring the first point-that many such states are Democrat controlled), the demographics are, in many cases, such that all other races combined could not muster even the perception of a threat to the white, Republican voting bloc.
- s2g 9y agoTossing her in prison for 5 years as part of a "crackdown" on voter fraud in an effort to prove it is a problem, and then disenfranchise as a "correction", is a pure republican move.
- s2g 9y ago
- colanderman 9y agoWhy in the world is this a felony? If it's "mere" disenfranchisement you're going for, why not simply… don't count the vote?
- cynusx 9y agoThe goal of that would be to extend the total disenfranchisement period
- dbbk 9y agoThe vote wasn't even counted in the end.
- rndmize 9y agoDisenfranchisement can be achieved on a greater scale if you make an example of people. If you take one person and throw them in jail for voting, you get a classic chilling effect.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- danschumann 9y agoThis is likely a very old law, or old sentence. I wonder if more of our school system could be focused on teaching people every single law that could screw them over. We learn the rules of math, science, etc, but not our own system?
- pbiggar 9y agoAs soon as I saw the headline I thought "I bet she's black". And it turns out she is.
- ocfx 9y agoIgnorance to the law does not make you immune to the law.
- AckSyn 9y agoIt certainly doesn't. It's also sad that it's a law but that's an other discussion.
- jadedhacker 9y agoNext time someone crosses the street outside the crosswalk and gets 5 years, please quote this again. That's more intentional than what this lady did by mistake casting a provisional ballot. Proportionality is a core principle, you don't whip out the harshest possible punishment just because you can. In this case, they should have simply discarded her ballot and informed her of her status. Of course, disenfranchising any citizen, even convicted felons, is completely unjust, so I would argue they shouldn't have even done that.
- ocfx 9y agoShe didn't get 5 years because she did this act by itself, she got it for doing it while on probation. Also J walking is an infraction and this isn't. Pretty big difference in the severity of the crime, potentially altering the outcome of an election is far worse than j walking. Granted her vote alone wouldn't do that, but its a matter of principle, if you let one person get away with it then it adds up.
- ifdefdebug 9y agoHow does such an attorney and judge feel after such a trial? Do they feel satisfied, fulfilled? Taking away 5 years of someone's life over a little mistake that didn't hurt anyone? I don't get it: why does a free people like the Americans allow for that kind of sinister figures to be their prosecutors and judges?
- sexoffender 9y agoYou're thinking under the assumption that there's no corruption in the judicial system, and also that every judge and jury and attorney intend to act for the good of every individual person, rather than for some other agenda. That's the kind of naivety I had too. That's not how the world works. The world is a horrifyingly evil place.
- chasing 9y agoDo you notice the color of the woman's skin? There you go.
- trhway 9y agovoting while black. Or poor. Rephrasing that old saying - steal a vote and you get 5 years in prison, steal an election and you get to be the President.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- notafxn 9y agoI'm not racist, so no, I don't notice it. :-)
- tarboreus 9y agoSeriously? It's 2018. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/color-blindness-is-counterproductive/405037/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/color-b...
- cynusx 9y agoI never quite understood voter disenfranchisement. Some quick googling tells me that 6 million people are disenfranchised in the US, which out of 235 million voting-aged population means 2.5% of the US voting-aged population is disenfranchised. It is also majority targeted towards black voters (despite 18% of voting population, 34% of disenfranchised are black) Putting it together for me it's clear that police brutality, redistricting and rigid voter disenfranchisement all serve the same purpose. To disenfranchise black voters to the maximum extent possible while remaining constitutional. This should become a supreme court matter someday.
- AckSyn 9y agoYou make a lot of leaps and assumptions in whatever logic you're using to jump from "isn't allowed to vote b/c of probation" to "omg blacks are targeted for harassment".
- loceng 9y agoSounds like it should be categorized as cruel and unusual punishment, even if it's currently the status quo and therefore very usual.
- cynusx 9y agoWell, the only reason I can think of that voting while disenfranchised would be a felony would be to extend the total period of disenfranchisement. Surely voting by itself doesn't warrant a 5 year jail sentence
- jernfrost 9y agoMan the US just disgust me. Land of the free my ass. The amount of inhumane policies is just staggering. The most brutal and unjust “justice” system in the free world. That American put up with this system is the biggest puzzle. It seems like the only freedom Americans care about is to carry a gun. Any other freedom they are cool with flushing down the toilet. Sorry for the angry rant, I know there are lots of good and decent people in the US, but how on earth can you stand by year after year and be so chill about the inhumanity of the system?
- syshum 9y agoWhile I 100% agree about the amount of inhumane policies and do not believe the US (or any other nation) are free. It is completely untrue that the only freedoms Americans care about is guns, that seems like that because 1. The Mainstream media loves to cover it 2. Guns are a taboo or unusual Topic for many nations 3. Given the US is one of the last if not the last first world nation that has few regulations on owning Auto-Loading guns it is common for other nations to us that as a sign post to express how "backwards" the US is, and virtue signal how much "better" they are in comparison because they outlawed the evil gun 4. The US has made lots of process in the progression of liberty even in my life time. Drugs laws are beginning to loosen, More expansions on Free Speech over the protest of the "hate Speech is not free speech" people, and others Over all there is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more work to be done for the cause of liberty, but the idea that Americans only care about guns is simply incorrect or rather incomplete probably based on biased news coverage
- anigbrowl 9y agovirtue signal how much "better" they are in comparison because they outlawed the evil gun No, it's much more common for some Americans to virtue signal how free they feel by the number and caliber of the guns they own. People in other countries don't hate guns, they just recognize their destructive potential and limit their availability on that basis. To the extent that they think they're better, it's because they have so few episodes of mass or casual murder by comparison. The US has made lots of process in the progression of liberty even in my life time. Drugs laws are beginning to loosen, You mean the drug laws that the US instituted in the 70s and then kept ratcheting up penalties on for a couple decades afterwards? If you were born in the 90s I realize it's hard to conceptualize variations in the law prior to that, but you should probably look into the political roots of the drug war and the economics involved in its export. More expansions on Free Speech over the protest of the "hate Speech is not free speech" people, and others It's odd that the people who've championed the freedom to express support for genocide under the rubric of free speech have been entirely absent from just about every other free speech cause in recent memory. You might want to broaden your scope a little bit.
- InclinedPlane 9y agoI can't quite figure out what the major differentiating factor is between that case and this one where someone intentionally tried to vote twice and just got 2 years of probation: https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/979519186820128768 https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/979519186820128768 I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.
- gpm 9y agoDifferent state, Iowa vs Texas?
- tyingq 9y agoThe major difference is skin color.
- gdulli 9y agoIsn't the whole point of probation that you're under a microscope and face greater penalties for wrongdoing, in exchange for an early release or bypassing jail for an earlier offense?
- InclinedPlane 9y agoThe whole point of probation is that you are trusted enough to not be put in prison.
- chapill 9y agoHN commenters claim there was no voter fraud in 2016. Voter fraud is discovered and prosecuted. HN commenters then complain that prosecuting the voter fraud they said didn't exist is excessive. Free and fair elections are what make America great. Sad to see such a lack of respect for that here.
- auggierose 9y agoIdeally, you would not allow people who don't have (additionally) Ph.D.'s in either Math or Physics make laws, but that's not how the world currently works.
- gnulinux 9y agoWhy Math or Physics?
- jefe_ 9y agoSome options: Hey, you're not on the list, you can't vote. Hey, you're not on the list, use the computer in the corner to enter your details and see if you're eligible. Hey, you're not on the list, here is a provisional ballot, we will verify your info and if it clears, your vote will be counted. You should not get 5 years in prison because the election board is incapable of securing their processes.
- clintonb 9y agoThe final option (provisional ballot) is what happened. The problem is she also signed an affidavit stating that she was eligible. It is a completely victimless crime and a waste of taxpayer dollars.
- RickJWag 9y agoNot victimless. That fraudulent vote cancelled a legitimate one. The punishment is excessive, but there is a real crime here.
- scarecrowbob 9y agoYes victimless: the vote was removed on review.
- s2g 9y ago> Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton This man deserves to be in prison.
- RickJWag 9y agoReminds me of the monetary damages levied against people who shared music files. There was a wrong-doing, but the punishment is excessive.
- rwz 9y agoPutting aside the whole "why voting disenfranchisement is even a thing in the first place" argument, this situation should have been just — Sorry maam, it seems like you can't cast a ballot this time due to being on probation. Have a nice day.
- pavlikp 9y agothe land of the freeeeeeeeeeeeee oh, wait ....
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- choward 9y ago> “I don’t think I’ll ever vote again,” she told the news outlet after her indictment. “That’s being honest. I’ll never vote again.” This reminds of an article I read about a city government considering fining people for putting non-recyclables in their recycling containers. If there is a risk of getting punished for doing the right thing and no risk if you don't try to do the right thing, then guess which one I'm choosing.