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When the United States does something like this others start doing it too, sometimes seemingly just to reciprocate or spite. The US contributes so much to the w

When the United States does something like this others start doing it too, sometimes seemingly just to reciprocate or spite. The US contributes so much to the world with respect to tech, business, culture and science but it’s also an exporter of increasing bureaucracy.

adventured 9y ago
I agree, this is very obviously a policy area where the US should be leading (or at least not setting new negative standards). It's curious though, as the popular thing to claim today is that China is obviously the future. They're going to supposedly dominate everything, from AI to robotics to insert-tech-thing-here. Article after article proclaimed that China would take advantage of Trump's immigration policies to do a massive global talent grab. So what happened to that fraudulent premise? There are almost zero human rights in China. The few they had acquired, have increasingly been stripped back away. So this social media grab is a massive problem for the US. Having zero rights in China means they're going to acquire all the world's talent and dominate the universe. Something certainly doesn't make sense in the storyline.
- jbros 9y ago
  And when the capitalists, (elite, the 1%) see how good the cpc has it, that they can milk everyone else, they will try the same here. I call for economic and miltary containment of China.
bambax 9y ago
> bureaucracy I wouldn't call it bureaucracy, but I don't know of a proper, better name. Hysteria maybe. Not sure.
- mulmen 9y ago
  Oppression is a good start.
  - zafiro17 9y ago
    There are a lot of people who call this "due diligence." Receiving permission to visit a country is a privilege, not a right. This trend of wanting better data before making decisions is the natural result of there being better data available on which to make it. Banks, loan officers, job offerers, and now nation states are each equally right in taking advantage of whatever you've chosen to put out there in public. I personally have no problem with this, and to the contrary would call to account institutions that make decisions without considering the data.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - jstanley 9y ago
      > Receiving permission to visit a country is a privilege, not a right. It shouldn't be. All border checks should be abolished. All passports should be abolished. Free people in the world should be able to travel between countries freely, and without having to justify themselves or ask permission, just as they can travel between cities within a country freely.
      - kofejnik 9y ago
        I agree! Also, let's take it a step further and abolish all door locks as well! Free people of the world should not have to ask permission to enter a house!
        jstanley 9y ago
        I'm not saying it's OK to go in arbitrary people's houses without permission. I'm saying it should be OK to go in arbitrary public places without permission.
      - michaelt 9y ago
        And if 30,000 camouflaged, balaclava-clad Russian speakers happen to cross the border from Russia to Ukraine, they're just exercising their right as free people :) Seriously though, it depends on what responsibilities you think the government has towards the people. If a country with high taxes and generous public services bordered a country with low taxes and minimal public services, you can see why problems could arise if people could cross between at will.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- asciimo 9y ago
  Xenophobia?
- stjohnswarts 9y ago
  Bureaucracy is often the result of hysteria. The USA is hysterical over terrorism when it should be hysterical over cancer, college cost increases, and health care. It's all a product of the government realizing that it's easy to fool the bleating masses with terrorist straw men.
  - opportune 9y ago
    It's not only the government, the media is very much a contributing factor too. One small terrorist attack yields multiple days of coverage and exposure. Terrorism is given an extremely outsized portion of coverage on the news and as a result people think it's a much bigger problem than it actually is. But it's an extremely convenient cover for taking away people's rights and spending even more money on the military. I've posted this before in another thread, but after 2001, less Americans have been killed by terrorists per year than have been killed by lightning. And yet think of all the money and attention that have been devoted to something more dangerous than slipping in the bathtub, and the rights "we" willingly gave up for that. It makes 0 sense
  - mulmen 9y ago
    Based on the definition of bureaucracy [1] I disagree with you. I do think the tail is wagging the dog in American politics these days but I do not think bureaucracy is the reason. I actually think the bureaucratic parts of our government work quite well. Examples being the National Park Service or NASA. I think the real problem is that our elected representatives (politicians) are so concerned with reelection that they manipulate their constituents rather than acting as representatives. It's more of an electoral problem. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy
__jal 9y ago
> but it’s also an exporter of increasingly intrusive, dehumanizing panty-sniffing and dangerous precedent due to its undeserved reputation as an exemplar of freedom FIFY.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Ya, China will start asking all of us Americans for our WeChat IDs (they would ask for Twitter and Facebook also, but those are blocked).
bsimpson 9y ago
Happens already with visa fees. I believe one of the reasons Americans need to purchase Indian visas in advance is because Indians must do so to enter America.

adventured 9y ago

I agree, this is very obviously a policy area where the US should be leading (or at least not setting new negative standards). It's curious though, as the popular thing to claim today is that China is obviously the future. They're going to supposedly dominate everything, from AI to robotics to insert-tech-thing-here. Article after article proclaimed that China would take advantage of Trump's immigration policies to do a massive global talent grab. So what happened to that fraudulent premise? There are almost zero human rights in China. The few they had acquired, have increasingly been stripped back away. So this social media grab is a massive problem for the US. Having zero rights in China means they're going to acquire all the world's talent and dominate the universe. Something certainly doesn't make sense in the storyline.

jbros 9y ago
And when the capitalists, (elite, the 1%) see how good the cpc has it, that they can milk everyone else, they will try the same here. I call for economic and miltary containment of China.

bambax 9y ago

> bureaucracy I wouldn't call it bureaucracy, but I don't know of a proper, better name. Hysteria maybe. Not sure.

mulmen 9y ago
Oppression is a good start.
- zafiro17 9y ago
  There are a lot of people who call this "due diligence." Receiving permission to visit a country is a privilege, not a right. This trend of wanting better data before making decisions is the natural result of there being better data available on which to make it. Banks, loan officers, job offerers, and now nation states are each equally right in taking advantage of whatever you've chosen to put out there in public. I personally have no problem with this, and to the contrary would call to account institutions that make decisions without considering the data.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jstanley 9y ago
    > Receiving permission to visit a country is a privilege, not a right. It shouldn't be. All border checks should be abolished. All passports should be abolished. Free people in the world should be able to travel between countries freely, and without having to justify themselves or ask permission, just as they can travel between cities within a country freely.
    - kofejnik 9y ago
      I agree! Also, let's take it a step further and abolish all door locks as well! Free people of the world should not have to ask permission to enter a house!
      - jstanley 9y ago
        I'm not saying it's OK to go in arbitrary people's houses without permission. I'm saying it should be OK to go in arbitrary public places without permission.
    - michaelt 9y ago
      And if 30,000 camouflaged, balaclava-clad Russian speakers happen to cross the border from Russia to Ukraine, they're just exercising their right as free people :) Seriously though, it depends on what responsibilities you think the government has towards the people. If a country with high taxes and generous public services bordered a country with low taxes and minimal public services, you can see why problems could arise if people could cross between at will.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
asciimo 9y ago
Xenophobia?
stjohnswarts 9y ago
Bureaucracy is often the result of hysteria. The USA is hysterical over terrorism when it should be hysterical over cancer, college cost increases, and health care. It's all a product of the government realizing that it's easy to fool the bleating masses with terrorist straw men.
- opportune 9y ago
  It's not only the government, the media is very much a contributing factor too. One small terrorist attack yields multiple days of coverage and exposure. Terrorism is given an extremely outsized portion of coverage on the news and as a result people think it's a much bigger problem than it actually is. But it's an extremely convenient cover for taking away people's rights and spending even more money on the military. I've posted this before in another thread, but after 2001, less Americans have been killed by terrorists per year than have been killed by lightning. And yet think of all the money and attention that have been devoted to something more dangerous than slipping in the bathtub, and the rights "we" willingly gave up for that. It makes 0 sense
- mulmen 9y ago
  Based on the definition of bureaucracy [1] I disagree with you. I do think the tail is wagging the dog in American politics these days but I do not think bureaucracy is the reason. I actually think the bureaucratic parts of our government work quite well. Examples being the National Park Service or NASA. I think the real problem is that our elected representatives (politicians) are so concerned with reelection that they manipulate their constituents rather than acting as representatives. It's more of an electoral problem. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy

__jal 9y ago

> but it’s also an exporter of increasingly intrusive, dehumanizing panty-sniffing and dangerous precedent due to its undeserved reputation as an exemplar of freedom FIFY.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Ya, China will start asking all of us Americans for our WeChat IDs (they would ask for Twitter and Facebook also, but those are blocked).

bsimpson 9y ago

Happens already with visa fees. I believe one of the reasons Americans need to purchase Indian visas in advance is because Indians must do so to enter America.