5 ms·

Newly-discovered human organ may help explain how cancer spreads

158 points by coloneltcb 9y ago

OrganicMSG 9y ago
I wonder how many organs are left to find. Was only recently they added the mesentery to the list.
- excalibur 9y ago
  I don't know that it's so much about "finding" organs anymore, it's more a process of "defining" them.
  - pietroglyph 9y ago
    This article doesn't seem to outline a redefinition, but an actual discovery as a result of better imaging technology. It makes you wonder what other things we can only see in a living body.
    - killjoywashere 9y ago
      It's more of a novel way of seeing what we knew was there, and then some willfully clever writing to make the scientifically routine sound new again. The interstitial space and it's role in carrying debris, waste products, and cells into the lymphatic system is well described, indeed a fundamental premise of physiology in health and disease. Extracellular fluid constitutes about 1/3 of a human's fluid volume. Do you really think we haven't thought about where that 15 liters is? As was said on the other thread, this is like buying the Hubble Space Telescope, pointing it between Mars and Jupiter and breathlessly reporting a new kind of planet that consists of a lot of rocks spread in an orbital ring.
- adventured 9y ago
  I thought it was pretty astounding two years ago when researchers at UVA found a direct link between the brain and immune system that wasn't previously known to exist. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/important-link-between-the-brain-and-immune-system-found/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/important-link-be...
joe_the_user 9y ago
Wow, It sound not like a new organ was discovered but that it been discovered that the fascia[1] have these tubes and that the fascia really is an organ. In studying message, a lot of approaches already treat the fascia as an active, responsive organ rather than as a passive collection of fibrous tissue. The science behind this has been considered murky at best. Now there, at least, is an explanation. The topic is debated here: https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-fascia-matter.php https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-fascia-matter.php [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia
- hinkley 9y ago
  Some eastern medicine and some massage schools recommend against massage and certain types or exercises when you are sick, claiming they will worsen the infection. If metastatic cells can move then surely viruses and bacteria can fit through these channels.
- fredch 9y ago
  This seems more like an extension of the lymphatic system; also you're confusing musculoskeletal fascia with ground substance.
  - joe_the_user 9y ago
    The linked Wikipedia article considers the substance that organs rest on, such as the pericardium, to be part of the fascia system. Though the muscle fascia and organ fascia distinction is worth keeping in mind, the article implies that tubes have been found in both. Also, I think whether these tubes are part of lymphic system is speculation at this point. The main thing is that they havne't considered in anatomy because they're destroyed by embalming.
JeanMarcS 9y ago
Noob question (as I’m not a biologist at all, knowing nothing about this field) : is it a possible explaination for the whole « energy flowing in the body » thing ? If there in fact is a network of fluid inside the body that we didn’t know about before, can’t it explain ?
- fredch 9y ago
  No, bodily "energy flows" are all in the head. It's very easy to think yourself into all sorts of physical sensations.
  - aldoushuxley001 9y ago
    where in the head? Is there a region in the brain this occurs?
    - dboreham 9y ago
      HPA?
    - pygy_ 9y ago
      Most likely somatosensory thalamocoritcal networks (the anterior parts of the parietal lobe and the corresponding thalamus). Maybe the insula, which is involved in visceral sensations as well.
    - dsr_ 9y ago
      Possibly: https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/psychologist-brian-magnetic/ https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/ps...
      - nsouth 9y ago
        The thing is, if I see a fire and put my hand in it, I'll experience pain. An MRI scanner would be able to detect certain parts of my brain being excited. If my brain was then artificially stimulated in the same region, no doubt I'd feel the same pain again. However, none of this means that the fire wasn't real in the first place. Of course, it's interesting because perhaps the fire isn't real and it's just some fringe part of the brain playing up, but I'm not sure how you'd go about designing an experiment to work that out (i.e. whether the circuits exist because the fire is real, or whether they've evolved some anomalous behaviour).
jaclaz 9y ago
Actual article here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-23062-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-23062-6
snambi 9y ago
hmmm... why did they take so long to find out something in the body?
- behm 9y ago
  It's complicated science. Kind of like physics or chemistry. We just don't know how we could live forever.
behm 9y ago
That's amazing! We have 2018 and still find such important stuff! The focus on the cancer PR bingo kinda plays the message down a little... This isn't just important for the understanding of cancer spreading. This could explain and effect so much more. Just give them their damn nobel price!

158 points by coloneltcb 9y ago

OrganicMSG 9y ago

I wonder how many organs are left to find. Was only recently they added the mesentery to the list.

excalibur 9y ago
I don't know that it's so much about "finding" organs anymore, it's more a process of "defining" them.
- pietroglyph 9y ago
  This article doesn't seem to outline a redefinition, but an actual discovery as a result of better imaging technology. It makes you wonder what other things we can only see in a living body.
  - killjoywashere 9y ago
    It's more of a novel way of seeing what we knew was there, and then some willfully clever writing to make the scientifically routine sound new again. The interstitial space and it's role in carrying debris, waste products, and cells into the lymphatic system is well described, indeed a fundamental premise of physiology in health and disease. Extracellular fluid constitutes about 1/3 of a human's fluid volume. Do you really think we haven't thought about where that 15 liters is? As was said on the other thread, this is like buying the Hubble Space Telescope, pointing it between Mars and Jupiter and breathlessly reporting a new kind of planet that consists of a lot of rocks spread in an orbital ring.
adventured 9y ago
I thought it was pretty astounding two years ago when researchers at UVA found a direct link between the brain and immune system that wasn't previously known to exist. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/important-link-between-the-brain-and-immune-system-found/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/important-link-be...

joe_the_user 9y ago

Wow, It sound not like a new organ was discovered but that it been discovered that the fascia[1] have these tubes and that the fascia really is an organ. In studying message, a lot of approaches already treat the fascia as an active, responsive organ rather than as a passive collection of fibrous tissue. The science behind this has been considered murky at best. Now there, at least, is an explanation. The topic is debated here: https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-fascia-matter.php https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-fascia-matter.php [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia

hinkley 9y ago
Some eastern medicine and some massage schools recommend against massage and certain types or exercises when you are sick, claiming they will worsen the infection. If metastatic cells can move then surely viruses and bacteria can fit through these channels.
fredch 9y ago
This seems more like an extension of the lymphatic system; also you're confusing musculoskeletal fascia with ground substance.
- joe_the_user 9y ago
  The linked Wikipedia article considers the substance that organs rest on, such as the pericardium, to be part of the fascia system. Though the muscle fascia and organ fascia distinction is worth keeping in mind, the article implies that tubes have been found in both. Also, I think whether these tubes are part of lymphic system is speculation at this point. The main thing is that they havne't considered in anatomy because they're destroyed by embalming.

JeanMarcS 9y ago

Noob question (as I’m not a biologist at all, knowing nothing about this field) : is it a possible explaination for the whole « energy flowing in the body » thing ? If there in fact is a network of fluid inside the body that we didn’t know about before, can’t it explain ?

fredch 9y ago
No, bodily "energy flows" are all in the head. It's very easy to think yourself into all sorts of physical sensations.
- aldoushuxley001 9y ago
  where in the head? Is there a region in the brain this occurs?
  - dboreham 9y ago
    HPA?
  - pygy_ 9y ago
    Most likely somatosensory thalamocoritcal networks (the anterior parts of the parietal lobe and the corresponding thalamus). Maybe the insula, which is involved in visceral sensations as well.
  - dsr_ 9y ago
    Possibly: https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/psychologist-brian-magnetic/ https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2015/research/ps...
    - nsouth 9y ago
      The thing is, if I see a fire and put my hand in it, I'll experience pain. An MRI scanner would be able to detect certain parts of my brain being excited. If my brain was then artificially stimulated in the same region, no doubt I'd feel the same pain again. However, none of this means that the fire wasn't real in the first place. Of course, it's interesting because perhaps the fire isn't real and it's just some fringe part of the brain playing up, but I'm not sure how you'd go about designing an experiment to work that out (i.e. whether the circuits exist because the fire is real, or whether they've evolved some anomalous behaviour).

jaclaz 9y ago

Actual article here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-23062-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-23062-6

snambi 9y ago

hmmm... why did they take so long to find out something in the body?

behm 9y ago
It's complicated science. Kind of like physics or chemistry. We just don't know how we could live forever.

behm 9y ago

That's amazing! We have 2018 and still find such important stuff! The focus on the cancer PR bingo kinda plays the message down a little... This isn't just important for the understanding of cancer spreading. This could explain and effect so much more. Just give them their damn nobel price!