24 ms·

Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

• michaelmrose 9y ago
  Lets be real about America's relationship with China. They are our enemies. Both parties seek to dominate the globe even if nobody is anxious to do so bullets and bombs. Both parties have values that can never be reconciled. How do you reconcile the notion that man ought to be free with a society that believes in lifelong servitude and a mans proper place under each others boots. A society that poisons its people and executes the parties responsible only when it becomes a public embarrassment. That dissembles undesirable portions of its populace for spare body parts for more affluent and desirable portions of its populace. That rolls over its people with tanks when they dare to disagree. Americans may be at many times poor examples of the values we hold dear but our society is at worst working towards living our ideals. China is nothing but a more tractable, predictable, and sane North Korea and nothing in our lifetimes or our childrens lifetimes is going to change that. A company that holds itself to be an American company shouldn't bow its neck to terrible people or ask Americans to do so. I am aware that they are a multinational and may not wish to be seen as American which is just fine by me. I just don't wish our government employees or leadership to patronize them and strongly suggest that those who feel strongly about America also abstain from giving anyone affiliated with Marriott their money.
  • kristianov 9y ago
    > I just don't wish our government employees or leadership to patronize them and strongly suggest that those who feel strongly about America also abstain from giving anyone affiliated with Marriott their money. I feel kinda bad for Marriot: Chinese boycott them for liking the tweet, and now americans are furious that they apologized.
    • yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
      We aren't furious that they apologized, we're furious that they fired someone over a mistake just because China threw a tantrum.
  • earenndil 9y ago
    I agree with what you said, partly. And I agree that there are serious problems with chinese culture and government (at least, from my perspective). But, why should the US government be any better?
    • hnaccy 9y ago
      >But, why should the US government be any better? Its foundational principles are superior.
      • stevenwoo 9y ago
        As an American citizen, I'm pretty ashamed our Constitution has forever enshrined slavery, and it's something that still resonates today. There is a terrible irony of setting a colony free from the UK and then having the heritage of slavery being celebrated in swaths of the United States for hundreds of years, even after abolition, as some sort of worthy heritage.
        • grzm 9y ago
          The US Constitution also includes the means to amend the document, which has been done numerous times, including the 13th Amendment, which corrects Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3. There's of course still room for improvement, we have the means do do so, creating an even more perfect union. While keeping in mind the past (which, as an append-only document, the Constitution makes sure we do) and working for the future (while perhaps chafing at the rate of improvement), I think that's also something to be proud of.
          • stevenwoo 9y ago
            Oh yes you are absolutely right. I should have added to my original comment, China does some horrible things, but short of a world war ( based on the geographic location of Tibet/China) we are going to have to convince the Chinese to change their behavior - that foundation argument isn't going anywhere, and I have had this discussion on this topic with Chinese nationals and it always comes back to "it's our country" and then back to many issues that are currently not going well in the United States and how we Americans need to fix our own house first. Also, I imagine explaining the 3/5ths clause is pretty monstrous burden for parents of kids of color today, I remember a large part of this discussion in high school civics made me feel a little bit ill. My conservative teacher back then was pretty proud of this "compromise".
  • probably_not 9y ago
    I am neither American nor Chinese, but your oversimplification will be taken more seriously if (i) US stops borrowing insane amounts of money from China to fund its grand lifestyle (aka beggars cannot be choosers) (ii) you could spend some time introspecting on the said grand lifestyle which plays a major role in having to deal mainly with first world problems (are we living our ideals?) vs third world ones (how to manage so many poor people without access to a lot of resources?) (iii) US itself didn't have an extremely hypocritical stance wherever it suits them. I don't see too many Americans talking about the labor rights in oil rich countries You know, its a complex system. Although I do agree with your thesis (no company should bow to these kind of petty demands), its not because the demand is coming from China. I would say the same thing to those who profit from, say, the lunatic patent system imposed via US on other countries.
  • chibg10 9y ago
    I don't think the issue is Chinese culture, but it is Chinese leadership--which, admittedly, has encouraged and created a culture of concerning nationalism and subservience to authoritarians with no respect for human rights or rule of law. If you look back in contemporary Chinese history, there are several episodes where influential groups were openly supporting a more democratic society. It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and censorship. I agree that the CCP is an enemy we should we wary of. But we should be just as wary of writing off any large group of fellow humans as enemies. The enemy is the brainwashers themselves, not their victims.
    • michaelmrose 9y ago
      The society that gives birth to the autocrats is complicit and for the most part welcoming of its values. It's a mistake to merely think of them as brainwashed. They rule their society still because their values and the values of the people are aligned. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2... /why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html It's a pragmatic society that believes in authoritarian rule because they believe it works and because the morality and ideals always come after pragmatism for them. They themselves and not the rulers that temporarily maintain control are our irreconcilable enemies.
      • jpttsn 9y ago
        Harsh. What about postwar Germany?
        • deleted 9y ago
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      • deleted 9y ago
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    • Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago
      It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and censorship (...) the brainwashers (...) In the last four decades, the poverty rate in China has fallen from over 90% to below 10%. http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecialNoteChart1.png http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecial... Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty, most people have seen a radical improvement in their standard of living in the last decades. Do you really think the main reason why they don't rise against their government is "propaganda" and "brainwash"? How many well-informed and not-brainwashed people would choose to support a revolution (with the associated risk of violence, chaos and deaths) when the statu quo is a fast, steady and practically unrivaled increase in everyday living conditions, even if the government is authoritarian? I don't think many would, regardless of whether their culture were Chinese or Western.
• djinnandtonic 9y ago
  "Answer a survey to continue reading this content." No.
• SeoxyS 9y ago
  The rational and nice thing to do for Marriott is to fire the guy, give him a nice severance and a wink-wink apology, and hook him up with a gig at Starwood Hotel & Resorts.
• Y_Y 9y ago
  If you suggested Nebraska was independent, nobody would flip out, because it's nonsense. Unfortunately large industrial empires need space and resources and so it's necessary to expand beyond what might be the "real" border of your country. But who's to complain? Everyone likes the Dali Lama, but capitalism doesn't allow you to choose karma over cash.
  • Waterluvian 9y ago
    I'm going to guess it's far more complex than that. I wouldn't feel whole if Quebec wasn't a part of Canada, but I can also appreciate the separatists' position on the matter.
  • daxorid 9y ago
    Western China is a combination of agriculture, and completely barren, unused land. They have plenty, without Tibet and Taiwan. There's another reason, here.
    • Y_Y 9y ago
      > Tibet has huge reserves of copper, lithium, gold and silver. Most of it has never been touched, because the Tibetans didn't mine the land: it's against their religious practices to disturb the ground. But China has begun mining on an enormous scale. from https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-china-s-exploitation-tibet-s-natural-resources https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-ch...
      • Declanomous 9y ago
        My understanding is that the bigger issue is that Tibet is bordered on the West by a geographical barrier in the Himalayas, whereas the Eastern border with China is relatively unprotected. Given the tensions between India and China, it makes sense that China would want to exert influence over the geographical region of Tibet.
    • forapurpose 9y ago
      > There's another reason, here. The traditional explanation, AFAIK, is that China seeks a buffer around the 'Han core' (maybe the SE 2/3 of China). That buffer is Manchuria in the north, Xinjiang in the NW, Tibet in the SW, and now they seek control of the South China Sea in the south and the various seas and islands to the east. If you look at the last imperial dynasty, the Qing (~1644-1911), you can see the same map and geographical strategy. (The Communists follow the imperial dynasties in other ways too, including now a head of state for life. Will his kids follow him?) That also follows traditional, pre-democratic great power strategy of creating a buffer region. For example, Russia is trying to do it now with Ukraine, Belarus, and Georgia (and with eyes on the Baltics), and did it in the past with the USSR and the Warsaw Pact states. Contrast that with democratic nations such as the US and those in the EU, and their relations with their neighbors.
• musage 9y ago
  > He announced an “eight-point rectification plan” that included education for hotel employees across the globe and stricter supervision. That reminds me of the White Rose demanding examples to be made of the Nazis so nobody would ever even dream of following in their footsteps. That never happened, and it shows.
• jknoepfler 9y ago
  That's the first time I've been hit with a survey-wall. Warning that the content is not free. The title is click bait anyway, so I'm not sure what I was expecting.
  • joelrunyon 9y ago
    There's no survey-wall.
    • ryanwaggoner 9y ago
      There was for me on mobile, not on desktop.
      • WiseWeasel 9y ago
        On desktop there's just auto-playing video with obnoxiously loud commercials; reminded me I need the Mute Sites By Default [1] extension installed on this computer. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mute-sites-by-default/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mute-sites-by...
    • sb8244 9y ago
      You have to "answer" a question to get access to the content.
  • lallysingh 9y ago
    Yeah. A little surreal getting asked for opinions in order to read an article about someone getting fired for showing an opinion.
    • meric 9y ago
      Getting asked for opinions in order to read an article about someone getting fired for showing an opinion about people showing an opinion about a form asking for an opinion.
      • 9y ago
• clishem 9y ago
  Sounds like the script of a Black Mirror episode to me.
  • S_A_P 9y ago
    Came here to say this, and cant even really connect the dots on how a hotel chain recognizing a country or not is not the bigger deal than liking a twitter post. Shoot, if I were in the same position I would think I was promoting the chain by liking posts related to it. Complete insanity.
  • zeth___ 9y ago
    Someone with a twitter account should tweet this at Donald Trump. That will be a real black mirror episode.
    • Stanleyc23 9y ago
      the pathos of trump was basically covered in that episode with Waldo that blue bear. fun fact: it predates trump's presidential run by several years.
      • nasredin 9y ago
        Fun trivia: Charlie Brooker talks himself of predicting a Trump-like person becoming president and that Black Mirror "Waldo" episode. Don't recall the source.
  • _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
    The problem about Black Mirror is that since at least 2016 it has been leaking into this reality.
• douglaswlance 9y ago
  Welcome to 2018
• _rpd 9y ago
  tl;dr: He liked this tweet from an official Marriott account, upsetting Chinese officials ... > Friends of Tibet congratulate global hotel chain #Marriott International for listing #Tibet as a country along with #HongKong and #Taiwan.
• avree 9y ago
  It's strange to me how much emphasis they're putting on the tweet. Wasn't the spark that incensed China so much their decision to list Tibet as a country in the survey?
  • djrogers 9y ago
    Nobody really knew about that until the yeeet was liked by the Marriott corporate account, so in a sense you’re right but the ‘like’ was the proximate cause of the firestorm.
    • elefanten 9y ago
      Well, whoever sent the tweet that was liked seemed to have heard about it.
    • helloindia 9y ago
      Listing Tibet & Taiwan as country was discovered by some while filling a survey on Marriott china site. Tweet Like wasn't the cause of the firestorm
• your-nanny 9y ago
  Firing the employee seems counterproductive. It hurts morale, and doesn't actually solve the problem.
  • djrogers 9y ago
    I’m not sure Tiebtan independence is a problem that Marriott can solve.
    • zeth___ 9y ago
      Oh good, then China has nothing to worry about and can leave everything as was is.
    • _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
      I doubt that is the problem the parent was referring to.
    • wollw 9y ago
      I would think that's part of the reason he shouldn't be fired. What difference should it make to anyone mature enough to do business with?
    • toss1 9y ago
      Tho they can't solve it single-handedly, they can refuse to be part of the problem by kowtowing to the Chinese Communist Party. And in case it isn't clear: the only proper attitude to this kind of bullying from the likes of dictatorial regimes is Eff 'em. China are only trying to bully everyone into helping propagate a lie. The fact is that they invaded the country of Tibet in living memory and it's leader still lives in exile. It was nothing but a territorial land and water resources grab. And they have been working on cultural genocide ever since, starting with burning monastaries within the first week of the invasion, and continuing with in-migration of Chinese to swamp the traditional culture, and kidnapping Tibet's religious leaders. We may not be able to force their hand, but every company and person can refuse to participate in their lying charade. (and just to be clear, my beef is with the CCP, not the people of China, who are largely just as subject to the unjust govt)
• peapicker 9y ago
  If Marriott were really serious, they should have fired the survey writer instead. They again, maybe that person was fired too. But as to appeasing China, well... I'm not sympathetic.
  • astura 9y ago
    No one to fire - the survey was provided by an outside company. Marriott needs to compile a "list of countries" to provide to third party vendors in the future.
  • zrb05293 9y ago
    You’re putting an awful lot of faith in the amount of work executives will do. Not to disparage all C-level executives. But I’m not surprised at all that “China is mad at this tweet...Fire the person on the other end of it.” Is as far as they were willing to dig. They usually fix symptoms, not problems.
• nl 9y ago
  Surprised no one asks the obvious question: why doesn’t Twitter (“can’t make any money”) charge for running a tweet competition and fix their bot problem.
  • colejohnson66 9y ago
    Because they don’t want to fix their bots; it boosts their. numbers
    • nl 9y ago
      That’s easy to say, but one look at their recent investment call transcripts shows that’s a pretty naive view. To make it clear, number of users is great, but revenue growth is much much better.
• coldacid 9y ago
  Well, I certainly won't be staying at any Marriott hotels any more. That's an abysmal way of handling things.
  • thisacctforreal 9y ago
    I think these personal boycotts are important and I also participate in them (Nestle, Facebook, etc). But it's unfortunate know that we will likely never be able to match the scale of a boycott from China. edit: However if China keeps doing stunts like this then companies might be able to make the decision not to do business there.
    • kodablah 9y ago
      Were we a squeakier, more collective wheel it might be different. I had a similar thought a few months back actually: https://github.com/cretz/software-ideas/issues/66 https://github.com/cretz/software-ideas/issues/66. But I can't be bothered to go run around on Twitter, Yelp, business-shame-site du jour all the time. It's why companies with self-imposed principles instead of purchased ones fare better in the long run, and it can't be quantified.
    • coldacid 9y ago
      Re edit: Isn't that what Google's already done? If only other big tech companies would flip Beijing the bird the same way...
  • anonforthis323 9y ago
    Is it? It seems like a very standard way of handling things. Also, Marriott is definitely one of the better mid-range chains.
    • jackvalentine 9y ago
      > It seems like a very standard way of handling things. Does that make it not abysmal?
• corobo 9y ago
  The meat of the story is that Omaha man worked for Marriott hotels on customer support. Their support system allows their agents to like tweets. The man appears to have inadvertently clicked like on a tweet while dealing with a large influx of support messages (due to a promo going on) thanking Marriott for listing Tibet as its own country which was a huge no-no due to Mariott's presence in China. Execs fire him as a part of their "sorry China" grovelling. My kneejerk is to believe fired man. I've clicked like on things by accident browsing regular Twitter, never mind a support system designed to skim through hundreds of requests. Unfortunately belief isn't going to restore the job, this is another lesson for the pile that companies will axe employees over fixing (heck, explaining) a problem with the system. It's the cheapest option. If liking a tweet will infuriate the largest (by population) country in the world, maybe $14/hr support agents shouldn't be able to one-click like tweets. Another question does occur - if it's such a big deal for them, why is/was Tibet listed as its own country in their system that prompted the liked tweet in the first place?
  • chrischen 9y ago
    Yea it's weird I feel like liking the tweet should pale in comparison to whoever listed Tibet as its own country. Seems like the mistake was listing tibet as a country on the survey and they fired a guy just because he put attention to it by liking a tweet (and was thus used as a sacrifice). If I were China, I'd probably demand the firing of someone more consequential than a random minimum wage worker who had little to deal with the insult in the first place.
    • lostlogin 9y ago
      If you were in China would you really find it insulting that Tibet is considered by some to be its own country? It was invaded, and I can’t really see any other way to characterise what happened.
      • chrischen 9y ago
        That depends if you think some Americans would be offended if you claimed Hawaii was its own country. It was also invaded and then forcibly gentrified and colonized. That's not to even mention the entirety of the United States. It's not so much if China has legitimate claims on Tibet so much as it's the pot calling the kettle black. The greatest conquerer on Earth and its modern beneficiaries telling another country to give up territory and sovereignty.
• joe_the_user 9y ago
  Aside from other questions, in what way does this mid-level management position wherein one is constantly surveiled a "dream job"? Ah, because the employers only hire people who claim it's their dream job? Because mostly a simple unfair firing situation wouldn't get the outrage it deserved unless the situation would flogged someone losing their dream job? None of the rhetoric inflation involved is the fault of this unfairly fired guy but it is an unfortunate sign of today.
  • the-pigeon 9y ago
    My dream is to become a customer support representative for a large corporation. With enough hard work and sacrifice I know I can make it happen!
    • toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Outside of certain industries in the US, it is very very hard to get a well paying stable job. You do a disservice to those who are hanging on by their nails for economic security.
    • umeshunni 9y ago
      That's rather condescending. The article mentions why this job was important to him: He spent time in Boys Town as a teenager. He developed drug and alcohol dependency issues before graduating from high school, and eventually got three DUIs as a young adult. He bounced aimlessly from job to job. But the Marriott job was different, he said. In his 18 months there, he had been promoted once, then given a raise, as superiors rewarded his skill and hard work. “This was such a big step for me to find a job I loved, one I took to with passion and heart,” he says. He takes off his glasses and dries his eyes with his shirt sleeve.
    • jnbiche 9y ago
      Your condescension and privilege is almost unbelievable. Not everyone can become a hotshot software developer making $200,000/year. Please think about how many people out there struggle to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.
  • 9y ago
• intopieces 9y ago
  Even if it wasn't an accident -- even if he saw the Tweet, and on behalf of Marriott and in full intention of broadcasting such, he clicked "Like" on this tweet, it's completely insane he would be fired for it. The tweet exhibits a positive sentiment. I would not expect most people to know that this sentiment matters to China. This is another example of China exerting influence on the open web, and it's shameful that we have ceded leadership to China like this.
  • banned1 9y ago
    Employees in social media teams should not be clicking LIKE in anything. It’s too risky to the business, and it conflates your personal preferences with corporate business goals. You cannot be yourself on social media anymore. You just have to be inactive, a fake, or pretend to be like what the echo chamber asks you to be.
    • gowld 9y ago
      He wasn't being "himself". He was an employee of Marriott Incorporated, doing the job he is paid to: publicize Twitter users who paint Marriott Incorporated in a good light.
    • sib 9y ago
      Just a quick note that you probably mean "conflates" (combine two or more texts, ideas, etc. into one) rather than "conflagrates" (a conflagration is 'an extensive fire that destroys a great deal of land or property.') ;)
      • banned1 9y ago
        You are right! THANK YOU FOR TEACHING ME something. (Fixed it) Have a great weekend!
    • tempestn 9y ago
      Clicking 'like' on tweets positive toward the brand is a common job for employees in social media teams. Making connections around the brand is the whole job of those employees. (Not saying whether or not he should have liked this particular tweet, or whether it was an accident or whatever—just that it's common and part of the job to like a tweet.)
• kodablah 9y ago
  Stories like this are how companies end up on my mental boycott list which is fairly indefinite especially when their value-add over competitors is limited or non-existent. I'd be glad to read the other side of this as I usually don't like to draw conclusions from pieces like this, but I suspect it's pretty clear in this case. /me slots Marriott just above Nestle in mental Rolodex. Bet they can't quantify that, I don't have a Twitter account.
  • gowld 9y ago
    Firing one employee is "just above" starving thousands of babies in Africa?
    • kodablah 9y ago
      Alphabetically, yes :-)
  • derekp7 9y ago
    I've tried this in the past, but then came to the realization that there aren't really that many ethical companies. And for each item such as this that you hear about, there are millions of incidents from their competitors that go unnoticed.
• zeth___ 9y ago
  Up next, all atheists and homosexuals get fired from any company that deals with Saudi Arabia. We can't let backwards dictatorships have any say in how a democracy is ran. Marion should be made an example of in the US. Say a wink wink nudge nudge major tax audit of every single Marion hotel.
  • elefanten 9y ago
    This isn't an example of anyone having a say in how the government is run. Any kind of extra-legal and arbitrary "making an example" of a company domestically would be disastrous to confidence in the market. The better implementation of your objective would be to create a policy (enshrined in rules) first, then go after anyone who violates it.
    • zeth___ 9y ago
      >Any kind of extra-legal and arbitrary "making an example" of a company domestically would be disastrous to confidence in the market. The market is in place to serve the country, not the other way around. Corporate charters are given by government and can be revoked. Colluding with a foreign country that we have a strained relationship with should be grounds for at least looking at the company much more closely.
      • weirdstuff 9y ago
        It's unfortunate that countries do increasingly exist to serve markets. In my opinion that's a real inversion, although subtle, that's been taking place. Which leads us to a bought political system, at the moment at least.
        • cinquemb 9y ago
          >Which leads us to a bought political system, at the moment at least. Some would say it has always been bought, because markets are made to serve people (some of those people may have different governments), and the people running the markets will use that leverage over others in varying degrees…
• fra 9y ago
  This is the exact wrong approach to incident management. A business intending not to make this kind of mistakes again would hold a post mortem and fix the system failures encountered. Marriott just needed a scapegoat.
• sandov 9y ago
  What a crappy website. Autoplay video and whenever I click on the text below the image, the image comes up and covers what I was reading.
  • quadrangle 9y ago
    I visited it with a ton of blocking/privacy plugins including NoScript, it was all broken site. I clicked Firefox's "reader" feature and read the article. It was a clear, effective read.
• chrischen 9y ago
  "Dozens of social media accounts were tweeting angry things, including many death threats, at both Roy and Marriott. This seems especially odd considering Twitter itself is officially banned in China, and thus can be accessed only by residents breaking the law or by bot accounts." Not sure why they assume that "dozens of social media accounts" of pro-China supporters is not possible. They're making some weird assumption that only people within China could possibly support the Chinese government on the issue. This paragraph makes no sense at all. The issue is actually quite controversial, and in my experience most Chinese overseas support China on the issue, as it's seen as similar to the US/Hawaii situation and an affront to China's sovereignty and management of internal affairs.
  • gowld 9y ago
    Furthermore, Twitter may be banned, but the government propaganda office certainly has access if they want it.
    • astura 9y ago
      Right, not only that but they may also actively employ people to spread pro-China messages on Western sites. Like Russia does.
  • nugi 9y ago
    Everyone outside china sees tibet, tiawan as seperate countries half invaded by qn incompetent and opressive china.
    • anonforthis323 9y ago
      That's not true at all. A lot of expat Chinese are strongly patriotic. I would also add that a lot of the pro-independence Taiwanese I know actually see Tibet as a part of China too. It's weird, I know.
  • kodablah 9y ago
    > They're making some weird assumption that only people within China could possibly support the Chinese government on the issue. That's not how I read it. I read it saying it's odd that a platform banned as bad by a government is so readily used by those who support the government. I won't even address the end of your post in detail because it's unrelated to governments punishing businesses for liked tweets.
• it_learnses 9y ago
  It's about time western and Asian nations united against Chinese bullying and corporate theft. Let's put sanctions and tariffs on China. It might hurt for a while, but we will be free of their dictatorial hold. And while we are at it, demand that they withdraw all claims from Tibet, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. Let's establish better relationship with India, Japan, and Korea to route manufacturing.
• msie 9y ago
  They should just rehire him quietly. I hardly think China is going to keep tabs on his employment status.
  • jacobush 9y ago
    We will let them know.
• ada1981 9y ago
  TL;DR: Marriott puts out a survey, someone compliments them on the content of the survey via a tweet, an employee likes the tweet, and gets fired because China gets triggered.
  • ada1981 9y ago
    I've come to appreciate when I make posts that get downvoted sometimes, because it means I'm not bending to the will of peer pressure.
• rndmize 9y ago
  > China forced Marriott to suspend all online booking for a week at its nearly 300 Chinese hotels. A Chinese leader also demanded the company publicly apologize and “seriously deal with the people responsible,” the Journal reported. I look forward to the coming years where China continues to grow in influence and power, and the useful things they choose to do with them. /s The last time I felt like I was seeing a use of government power this idiotic was when Congress decided to investigate cheating in the MLB (or NFL or whatever it was).
  • 8bitsrule 9y ago
    I think they've been influenced by seeing all the attention DT gets for throwing shit fits.
    • azernik 9y ago
      Trust me, they were pulling the kinds of stunts over Tibet and Taiwan and the Diaoyu islands and a few other issues loooong before Trump made that fateful ride down the escalator.
• seshagiric 9y ago
  This is an atrocity. The image in the said tweet clearly shows a decently large group of people holding 'thanks Marriot' cards. It's easy to think why the employee liked it. And really how many people know about geopolitically sensitive areas like Tibet...
• bb88 9y ago
  Usually when an issue like this gets up to the CEO, there really isn't any other choice but to fire whoever is responsible. I don't necessarily agree with it, but the reality is: China >> Mariott.
  • gowld 9y ago
    Sure. The CEO should fire himself, since he is the responsible party for this irreparable harm to CHina.
    • zrb05293 9y ago
      Or fire whoever stamped the paperwork for Mariott to become a corporation!
• darkerside 9y ago
  Something about this story seems off to me. I think it's the fact that the employee was so insistent that he mistakenly liked the tweet, implying that he never would have liked such a tweet on purpose. Seems far more likely he thought it was innocuous and clicked it, which would be totally understandable. The story comes off as a but disingenuous. Moreover, the lack of comment from Marriott makes this a very one sided story. Pure speculation, but I wonder if he was asked to apologize publicly and refused?
• w8rbt 9y ago
  Someone needs to hire this guy. It was an honest mistake.
  • orangecat 9y ago
    It was an honest mistake. The only mistake he made was accepting a job at a company that turned out to be run by spineless bootlickers.
• tim333 9y ago
  tl;rd Marriot employee dealing with 1000s of tweets liked: >Friends of Tibet congratulate global hotel chain #Marriott International for listing #Tibet as a country along with #HongKong and #Taiwan. pic.twitter.com/SXKWb20v3e China freaked out and >forced Marriott to suspend all online booking for a week at its nearly 300 Chinese hotels. A Chinese leader also demanded the company publicly apologize and “seriously deal with the people responsible,” Maybe Marriott could quietly hire him back. The Chinese are a bit touchy over what I think is the largest military invasion and land grab of the last century by area.
  • anonforthis323 9y ago
    If I remember correctly, China didn't "freak out." A bunch of Chinese patriots freaked out and started to tweet/weibo it and brought it to the attention of the Chinese government. At that point, the government had to act, otherwise, they would be seen as soft on separatism.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• banned1 9y ago
  Wow, if China is going to be a superpower and such a sensitive pony tail, this is going to be bad. When we in the US didn’t like other countries we just bombed them or appoint puppet leaders. What will they do? Fire everybody?
• piss_a_mystic 9y ago
  A company will always err on the side of firing an employee when threatened with a lawsuit or government action. The principle behind this behavior is very simple: make sure the finger is pointed at the party least capable of fighting for its own rights. It's anecdote time using this throwaway account. I used to work as a software engineer at a major hedge fund, where most of the computer systems were run by an outside vendor. One of these systems was a Flash-based data tool, an archaic piece of work that was poorly implemented, entirely undocumented, and thoroughly hated by everyone at the firm. I was part of a three-person team who, along with the CTO, were hired to replace this website. We were told to use whatever means were necessary to figure out a way to build better systems for the hedge fund. On a fine summer afternoon not so long ago, my teammate was trying to figure out how the existing Flash-based website worked. This person downloaded a popular Flash decompilation tool in order to peek at the UI source code. Neither him nor me were aware that the same vendor who ran this Flash-based website had also installed surveillance software that pulled web browsing history from every computer at the firm. It turned out that the firm's contract with this vendor included explicit verbiage that prohibited any kind of reverse engineering of the Flash-based website, and specifically called out Flash decompilation as a forbidden activity. Obviously, none of the employees were ever notified of this clause in the contract, and were unaware of the forbidden nature of this activity. A few days later, the entire department - the "offending" colleague and two other engineers including myself, as well as the CTO - were all summarily fired for violating a contract clause that none knew about. This man's story is sad and regrettable, yet it does not surprise me in the least. The firm screwed up, and chose to take a course of action that limited its own responsibility at the expense of four livelihoods. Sic transit gloria mundi, while American greed continues on its own vicious course.
• rayiner 9y ago
  Glad to see that the cowards at Marriott are willing to stand up to insane Chinese bullying. I’m switching to Hilton.
  • tptacek 9y ago
    You don't think Hilton routinely fires people for unfair, chickenshit reasons too, taking advantage of the immense power differential a giant corporation has over low-skilled labor? Isn't that the real problem here?
• nugi 9y ago
  Mariott just lost my family, and companies business. I hope china was worth it. No integrity, means no support from me.
• Lazare 9y ago
  I find stories like this very frustrating. It seems pretty clear that: 1) Roy Jones did nothing wrong, but lost his job through no fault of his own. 2) Marriott did something morally wrong because it was easy, and will suffer zero consequences. 3) China doesn't really care about the underlying issue, but is engaging in a cynical power play to exert dominance. In a better world, Marriott would have refused to buckle, or having done so, would face meaningful consequences. In this world, the only party in this sotry to actually suffer is the only one who is morally blameless. And that's just how it is.
  • factsaresacred 9y ago
    > China doesn't really care about the underlying issue, but is engaging in a cynical power play to exert dominance. Boy, I wish that was true. China is petulant beyond belief. A thousands years old civilization that rallies their netizens any time anybody dare "insult the feelings of the Chinese people". That's how illegitimate and insecure powers behave.
    • Tade0 9y ago
      This makes me think: How fragile must this power be if a "like" on social media is enough to elicit such a response?
  • sah2ed 9y ago
    The article clearly mentions that they had to punish someone. Also, China imposed harsh consequences in the form of lost revenue for Marriott due to the liked tweet: "China forced Marriott to suspend all online booking for a week at its nearly 300 Chinese hotels. A Chinese leader also demanded the company publicly apologize and “seriously deal with the people responsible,” the Journal reported."
    • Lazare 9y ago
      > The article clearly mentions that they had to punish someone. ...well, no. They had a choice. They didn't have to fire the guy. > Also, China imposed harsh consequences in the form of lost revenue for Marriott True. But no one is imposing any consequences on Marriott for firing the guy, harsh or not. For Marriott, that makes the decision easy I suppose. It does not, however, change what's right.
• victimized 9y ago
  A company will always err on the side of firing an employee when threatened with a lawsuit or government action. The principle behind this behavior is very simple: make sure the finger is pointed at the party least capable of fighting for its own rights. It's anecdote time using this throwaway account. I used to work as a software engineer at a major hedge fund, where most of the computer systems were run by an outside vendor. One of these systems was a Flash-based data tool, an archaic piece of work that was poorly implemented, entirely undocumented, and thoroughly hated by everyone at the firm. I was part of a three-person team who, along with the CTO, were hired to replace this website. We were told to use whatever means were necessary to figure out a way to build better systems for the hedge fund. On a fine summer afternoon not so long ago, my teammate was trying to figure out how the existing Flash-based website worked. This person downloaded a popular Flash decompilation tool in order to peek at the UI source code. Neither him nor me were aware that the same vendor who ran this Flash-based website had also installed surveillance software that pulled web browsing history from every computer at the firm. It turned out that the firm's contract with this vendor included explicit verbiage that prohibited any kind of reverse engineering of the Flash-based website, and specifically called out Flash decompilation as a forbidden activity. Obviously, none of the employees were ever notified of this clause in the contract, and were unaware of the forbidden nature of this activity. A few days later, the entire department - the "offending" colleague and two other engineers including myself, as well as the CTO - were all summarily fired for violating a contract clause that none knew about. This man's story is sad and regrettable, yet it does not surprise me in the least. The firm screwed up, and chose to take a course of action that limited its own responsibility at the expense of four livelihoods. Sic transit gloria mundi, while American greed continues on its own vicious course.
• m3kw9 9y ago
  It may not look like it, but this is equivalent to accidentally pressing a missle button and it hit the country on the other side.
  • functioningCog 9y ago
    ...or accidentally sending a missile warning to Hawaii.
  • John_KZ 9y ago
    Yeah, Americans seem pretty indifferent on such issues, probably because they oppress others too well and don't get to hear such things themselves. What if a major French company lists the Falklands under Argentina? What if open street map deletes Israel? What if Airbus "likes" a tweet from a middle eastern man that calls for the complete removal of US forces from Iraq? Things like that matter, and really piss off the involved parties, especially when they're at least technically correct (as in the case of Tibet being autonomous, but de-facto part of China).
    • tinza123 9y ago
      totally agree. All that hypocrisy caused by ignorance. They just don't understand how sensitive such matters are before they even try. Sad!
    • jodrellblank 9y ago
      What if a major French company lists the Falklands under Argentina? You'd get a reddit "BritishProblems" grumpy post about it? https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2emlt0/i_was_filling_in_an_online_application_and_under/ https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2emlt0/i_w... https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/search?q=country+list&restrict_sr=on https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/search?q=country+li...
  • nasredin 9y ago
    >>It may not look like it, but this is equivalent to accidentally pressing a missle button and it hit the country on the other side. TBH I expected somebody to Godwin this whole thing, but the quality of people commenting on HN is just too damn high. Guess your comment is as close as we gonna get. Never thought the like button of one tweet can have such devastating consequences.
• kylnew 9y ago
  Honestly, Marriott is a terrible chain with contempt for its own customers. Every time I use a Marriott (not always by choice) I’m insulted by the quality of food for the price they ask. I once got $10 ‘fresh squeezed OJ’ at breakfast before knowing the price and realizing they were pouring it from a Tropicana container. So when I hear this story I’m not even remotely surprised by Marriotts behavior. Upper management has its head so far up its own rear end this is par for the course.
  • Aloha 9y ago
    Was it a franchised property, or OandO, or was it just merely managed by Marriott?
    • kylnew 9y ago
      Not certain but it’s been a repeat problem that I eventually realized Marriott having their name on it was the common denominator
• fwgwgwgch 9y ago
  If anybody needs reasons to at least partially support Trump, this is it. Nobody else would counter china Hillary's team was getting Chinese money from Terry McAullife.
  • learc83 9y ago
    Trump on the President of China taking power for life: "He's now president for life. President for life. And he's great. I think it’s great." Doesn't sound like standing up to China to me.
• ggg9990 9y ago
  Please give me a trade war with China. I’ll pay $5000 for a TV and $2000 for an iPhone if it means we can stick it to those shitstains.
• jdironman 9y ago
  My father was 'Rookie of the Year' in 1988 for Marriott hotels. He got to take my mother to an actual grand ball at the time for their ceremonies, crystal chandelier and all. He was only a cook at the time but an exceptionally hard worker who really stood out. He worked two jobs at the time. One being at Marriott hotels, and the other cleaning a whole Kroger's floor by himself. 20 something thousand square feet, swept, mopped, buffed, and shined single-handed after a full shift at Marriott. For some reason this story stood out to me. The world these days is sometimes too connected for its own good that it forgets to relate to the individual.
• Steeeve 9y ago
  Seems like they could have saved themselves a good deal of money and headache by offering this guy a severance package ahead of his firing being made public.
• codeisawesome 9y ago
  It's amusing how much dread is inspired inside when I try to make a comment here. Can't say anything without marking myself against one of the many parties here. What a drama!
  • nasredin 9y ago
    If you don't speak up for yourself, somebody else will and you may not like what the say.
• verelo 9y ago
  Great idea! Immediately made me think of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAcyTXRunY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjAcyTXRunY Hopefully no birds like this in the area.
• peterkelly 9y ago
  They just fired the one guy who they would have been able to rely on 100% to never, ever make that mistake again.
• Aloha 9y ago
  I'm a Marriott rewards platinum member, with over a year in house, and staying in a Marriott hotel right now, and I find this behavior disgraceful - and while I'm likely to complain to Marriott about it (and did previously), I'm unlikely to change my stay preferences. Most Marriott employees I know of (not who work for franchises), speak highly of the work environment and culture that I know its a good place to work/be - but behavior like this is still at best foolish - I mean this guy just learned a multi-million dollar lesson, isnt he the one you'd want to keep on?
• ghostcluster 9y ago
  And thus the Chinese Communist Party's cold authoritarian censorship extends overseas to strike at the job of a US citizen. It was just a few months ago that I wrote this here on HN: > I even feel a personal dampening on what I will say publicly about China on social media, just because of hypothetical tech/travel opportunities, and I don't even live there. Obviously, those fears were founded. Part of me is happy about the Trump tariffs because it will force more multinational corporations to stand up and show their true selves with regards to what matters more to them: access to the Chinese market, or basic human justice and dignity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16272683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16272683
  • Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago
    > I even feel a personal dampening on what I will say publicly about China on social media, just because of hypothetical tech/travel opportunities, and I don't even live there. I feel the same, but not only about China.
  • zombieprocesses 9y ago
    It isn't just china. You can be fired for offending european sensibilities. You can be fired for offending saudis/muslims/etc. Of course we already have examples of tech workers being fired for conservative opinions. But the most egregious example is israel, where it is illegal for an american citizen to boycott israel.
  • anonforthis323 9y ago
    I wonder if the CCPs censorship department will one day be as powerful as the RIAA or MPAA? What's scarier is that in this day and age, anything you say on social media can be a fireable offense. Wasn't there an American teacher that was fired this week because he dissed the military? Or the numerous professors that are in trouble for complaining about BLM disrupting their class?
• rubyn00bie 9y ago
  There is only one person to blame for this and it is the executive in charge. What a fucking chicken shit and horrible leader to throw his subordinate under the bus for what is a process and institutional problem. I️ wont be using the Marriot again (not that I️ wouldve).
  • mistermann 9y ago
    I think some blame belongs with Western leadership who've created this monster. Without companies falling over themselves to set up shop in China, and Western governments not stopping to think about the geopolitical ramifications, China never would have amassed this much power in so little time, obviously with a lack of corresponding wisdom. Unfortunately, there's now no going back, lest we cause a recession! China will be the de facto leader of the world very soon, and when that happens the Marriots or any of us won't have the option of refusing their requests - you will do it, or else.
  • mathgenius 9y ago
    Yes, total dick move. And who knows how high up the blame lies. The bottom-rung exec is likely just as clueless. Clearly they need to outsource the social media stuff. This is going to become more and more important for big corps to get on top of, and having a few click-monkeys do it is just obviously not going to work.
• bArray 9y ago
  For those saying something along the lines of "should we expect a massive reaction every time a few people get upset?" - just look at the UK and the Nazi pug story [1]. It seems as though a mass of outraged people on social media can have very real life consequences as there's no evidence for it stopping anytime soon. Personally I think this is more towards a vigilante mob culture and in most cases it's counterproductive to throw people under the bus. The real failure here was Marriott failing to envision somebody one day accidentally pressing a button in "error" (at least to cause negative PR). They've set a dangerous standard for themselves that large negative PR should result in job losses. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/nazi-pug-man-arrested-after-teaching-girlfriends-dog-to-perform/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/09/nazi-pug-man-arr...
• onetimemanytime 9y ago
  >>Roy sure didn’t mean to get fired from his $14-an-hour online customer service job, a job the 49-year-old says was his best ever. $14 an hour and a "Marriott customer care manager" ? Just wow.
• paradite 9y ago
  Chinese citizen here. A few points that I want to make after reading some comments: 1. I would be personally offended if anyone or any organization lists Tibet as a country. 2. Lots of Chinese people would be offended too by this. Reasons for 1 and 2: - It is a piece of wrong information - The wrong information directly contradicts what is considered basic knowledge in China - That basic knowledge happens to be on the topic of sovereignty - Chinese people care a lot of sovereignty (see https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo/issues/6006 https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo/issues/6006) Why do Chinese people care so much about sovereignty? Culture and history. It is the same question as: - Why do Americans care so much about freedom of speech, democracy and race equality? - Why do Japanese people care so much about respect and etiquette? Now addressing the obvious issue, that some people support the idea of Tibet becoming independent and they should be free to express their ideas. Yes, they are free to say so, but there are two things to keep in mind: - Opinions are not facts, you can support whatever you want, but don't say it as a fact like "Tibet is a country as of 24 March, 2018." That is not the right thing to do. - If you choose to freely express your opinions or spread false information, you will face consequences for them. For example, a PR firm would likely tell you that expressing such opinions would results in negative brand image and boycott in China. In addition, saying something like that in China would result in more serious consequences. You might not like it, but that is beyond your control and you should be aware of that.
  • sdrothrock 9y ago
    For an American perspective, I've thought about this a lot while talking to Chinese friends, and I wonder if the closest thing to this in American culture (while not being at all equivalent, just analogous) would be claiming that Puerto Rico is the 51st state. Factually, it is not. Emotionally, some people may want it to be and may very well have valid arguments for it. People across the US and Puerto Rico would have strong opinions on either side of the argument.
    • charlieflowers 9y ago
      Anecdotally, I'm an American and that statement would get barely a chuckle out of me. I really wouldn't care and most people I know wouldn't either. So I don't know if it's the best analogy.
• erikb 9y ago
  a) It can't be a dream job if you get fired for liking a tweet. The dream job only existed in your head and getting fired hit you with the truth that your fantasy ad reality don't match. b) Midnight on-call support is not a dream job. Have you ever worked in anything that is close to customers? These jobs are a pain in the a and mostly underpaid. Also you can always, always find another job like that. c) He didn't get fired for a like. He got fired because his actions resulted in losing millions of dollars. In such a situation someone needs to get fired. It doesn't matter if anybody is at fault or not. It must have consequences. And as the lowest level employee in the chain it's easy to fire you first. Sh*t happens.
  • ggg9990 9y ago
    a,b) A dream job can be a dream job solely for paying $14/hr when every other job you could get paid $9.
  • nasredin 9y ago
    A LOT of manual labor jobs are shittier (you can use bad words here BTW) than working in an air-conditioned office chatting on Twitter all day.
  • Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    For a) Sure, that changed the "dream job"... but come on, it seems he didn't think that a simple mistake could raise such a stir. And it seems a misguided like would generally be something reprimanded instead of it losing your job. This situation was weirdly blown out of proportion for numerous reasons, which weren't his fault. As far as we know, everything leading up to that moment could have seemed reasonable enough to the man. for b: That's nearly twice the minimum wage. It isn't manual labour, you aren't doing collections, and they likely offer decent health insurance for call center employees on top of a couple weeks vacation and a little bit of flexibility. Sure, there are going to be stressful nights, but others will be full of other sorts of people. Who is to say that can't be someone's dream job?
• drawkbox 9y ago
  A data bill of rights might be the issue of our time. No matter if you are in a free country or anywhere in the world, people should be able to have opinion that is represented in their digital form. The US could lead on this and we would be smart to push for it. Also, maybe with our surveillance society there is some path to forgiveness if people makes mistakes. Everything now is too much of a permanent record which was always feared and not fair for the human condition where people make mistakes and change.
  • Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    It is unfortunate that the US seems to not be serious about rights not already in the Constitution. In international agreements, it seems to sign but not ratify them. (1) https://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-so-reluctant-sign-human-rights-treaties https://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-so... (2) https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/10/economist-explains-2 https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/10/e... (3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_unratified_by_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_u... In addition, the current political climate seems to want to remove some protections already in the constitution and I would think other countries would be hesitant to enter agreements such as these with the US, considering things like backing out of trade agreements and the Paris climate agreement.
• pseingatl 9y ago
  The real story here is not the at-will status of American employees, but the extraterritorial application of law. A Chinese worker is familiar with Chinese censorship and policy and know that Tibet is a third rail issue. You cannot possibly expect a low-level employee in Nebraska would know this. So when a country (like the U.S., like China) tries to impose its laws (like the U.S. did in New Zealand to Kim Dotcom) you have unexpected consequences. As countries seek to criminalize webhosting (FOSTA), the Internet will be increasingly siloed. If you want to know what the Internet will look like in twenty years, look at North Korea. Connections outside extremely limited. Ony North Korean laws apply. That is the direction we're headed.
• Tistel 9y ago
  I feel bad for guy. Everyone has had some mind numbing task that causes you to space out. But! Here is a half baked app idea that might prevent, or at least reduce, this unfortunate situation. Make it like the nuclear launch systems in movies (probably set in rural Nebraska deep down 300 feet below a corn field). There are multiple people getting the same social media feeds. They react independently, but actual responses are delayed. If all the people noticed an event (tweet etc) it goes into a further consideration pool, the rest are dropped. In the further consideration pool, event reaction only get out and leave the system (become real) if the majority are in agreement. In the binary situations it’s a simple vote majority. In free form text, use ML to characterize the content into a few buckets (affirmation, lukewarm, negative and joke (or whatever)). You should call the app “social kaboom averted.” Personally, I want to live in a society where all three of the voters vote for Tibet over bastard commies. Eff Marriot, or no, wait. Eff Mary-rot! The system could also work on a delay. So the same person has to double check their own tweets (and hacker news comments) after x hours. That app is called “sleep on it.”
• jccalhoun 9y ago
  Maybe we need to rethink unions and employment at will laws.
• bryanrasmussen 9y ago
  I feel sorry for the guy because it really seems like he needs better dreams.
• censorship 9y ago
  Marriot holds all bilderberg meetings also. This tells me a lot of they care towards workers. Staff is these bosses like animals. They have to live, eat and have "right" opinions. They can be easy replaced with androids later.
• drngdds 9y ago
  Why does Twitter make likes public? There isn't even a way to hide them, afaik. I don't use Twitter but if I did, I certainly wouldn't want everyone knowing everything I like.
• mcherm 9y ago
  China is a bully. Bullys are a serious problem when they are bigger and stronger than most everyone around and also the community does not band together to stop them.
• retributor 9y ago
  HOW DARE YOU CLICK THE WRONG ICON. DO YOU NOT KNOW THE PENALTY FOR SUCH THINGS IS DEATH??? YOU CLICKED THE WRONG ICON. YOU CLICKED THE WRONG ICON ON A TWEET. YOU CLICKED THE WRONG ICON ON THE WRONG TWEET. YOU ARE PATHETIC SCUM. YOU FORFEIT YOUR LIFE.
• HillaryBriss 9y ago
  I think Marriott's response was heavy handed and excessive. I'm not staying at any Marriott hotels.