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345 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

Ajedi32 9y ago
Lots of really interesting details in the [developer documentation][1]. Quick summary of the hardware: * 6-DOF tracked controller * Eye tracking * Multiple depth of field display * Persistent location tracking across multiple rooms * Processor/GPU power comparable to "high end mobile hardware" And software: * Custom operating system based on Android (but heavily modified) * Multiple apps can run at once and be displayed in the same physical space And a few limitations: * FOV is going to be rather small * Variable depth-of-field display doesn't work well with objects less than a foot (30 cm) from your face * Takes a few seconds for the system to adjust when you move real objects around (so if you move your couch, it won't notice instantly) * The display can't draw darkness or black (virtual objects can't cast shadows on real ones) [1]: https://creator.magicleap.com/ https://creator.magicleap.com/ (Requires login)
- epberry 9y ago
  Yeah the variable depth-of-field not working well at < 1 ft is a just a property of the hardware sensors. I guess I don't know exactly what they are but if it's time of flight or stereo then they could make it work better at closer ranges but then it wouldn't work as well farther away.
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    That's referring to the user being < 1 ft from a virtual object, not a physical one. The docs say "Currently we do not recommend to having interactions with objects within 30 cm of your view for prolonged periods of time. When users approach too close to content for us to display, fade content out gracefully rather than sharply clipping the view."
- michaelbuckbee 9y ago
  I was really happy to see eye tracking in this list as I consider that a "gateway technology" that opens up a variety of additional really cool features. The big one is probably foveated rendering [1] which both allows for a more natural look as well as (hopefully) more efficient visuals. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX0wCdD2LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX0wCdD2LA
- deleted 9y ago
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- hokkos 9y ago
  We still have to wait for the exact FoV, and the eye tracking seems interesting but it doesn't seems to be better than the Hololens, and won't be from the 2018-2019 Hololens.
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    Wait, the Hololens has eye tracking? That's interesting, I'd never heard that before. Anyway, I think the main innovation Magic Leap seems to be pushing over its competitors is its multiple depth of field display. It'll be interesting to see how big of a difference that actually makes in practice.
    - lwansbrough 9y ago
      No HoloLens doesn't have eye tracking. I think they're saying the device as a whole doesn't seem to be better than HoloLens. Which I might agree with. The form factor may be stranger though, which would be an accomplishment.
      - jadeddrag 9y ago
        Accurate eye tracking UI/UX might be the game changer that puts the ML over the HoloLens, despite its other shortcomings.
- shostack 9y ago
  I worry about the FOV piece as someone that experiences motion sickness from VR and normal non-VR games with narrow FOVs. For those more knowledgeable, is this something that is less of an issue because it is AR vs. VR?
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    I think it's very unlikely you'll get motion sick in AR, _especially_ AR with a small FOV. The vast majority of your vision will still be filled with reality, so it won't be all that different from wearing a pair of regular glasses, at least from your brain's perspective. Not to mention that Magic Leap's multiple depth-of-field display will likely simulate normal vision much better than current-generation VR displays, and that there's no artificial locomotion in AR.
    - haeffin 9y ago
      I get dizzy about half an hour into using the HoloLens. I am not sure why, I think it may be because the tracking/rendering doesn't quite keep up with fast head motions making the holograms "inconsistent" with the real world. It might also be that it's because of the accomodation/convergence mismatch ...
      - veganjay 9y ago
        Do you think it is related to the weight of the HoloLens? I find that many people feel uncomfortable after 20 minutes of use. And at least one person got a headache using it.
- nneonneo 9y ago
  The HoloLens has many similar features: * Persistent location tracking * Processor/GPU power (HoloLens is x86-based with a dedicated HPU unit for hand/environment tracking) * Custom OS based on Windows Universal * Multiple apps can run * FOV is small * Display doesn't work with nearby objects * Brief update delay for real objects - there's a short delay for direct object mesh tracking and a longer delay for spatial anchor updates, IIRC * Can't draw blackness From the last few limitations, it seems they may just be using the same waveguide displays as the HoloLens. Variable DoF sounds interesting - I suppose they're using eye tracking to provide blur-DoF effects, but I wonder how quickly they can adapt the image. Would also be interesting if variable DoF means something else. A tracked controller is nice but perhaps nothing too new. I wonder how they track the controller if it's out of the FoV of the head-mounted camera setup? HoloLens has a clicker controller but that's inertially tracked so it's much more similar to a gyro-mouse than e.g. a Rift controller.
eanzenberg 9y ago
Timing? It feels like VR is old news and there's no killer use-case for AR.
- cjsawyer 9y ago
  Welcome to the bleeding edge. If that’s how you think then tech may not be for you.
  - eanzenberg 9y ago
    Right, so VR's been around for 30 years. Keep staying on "bleeding edge" lul.
    - HammadB 9y ago
      This is an odd way of looking at in my opinion. Apple started making the newton tablet in 1987 and the iPad came to fruition in 2010. The underlying technology for a compelling and consumer-ready VR/AR/<buzzacronym of choice> is much harder problem to solve, it will naturally take longer. I think the software industry sometimes has too short a timescale in its understanding of "bleeding edge".
      - cinquemb 9y ago
        >Apple started making the newton tablet in 1987 I'd say it also helped that Apple had already shipped the Apple II and derivatives before 1987 so that they could at least burn some percent of revenue on R&D (if you want to also ignore how they were also struggling from the mid 80's to the 90's even after already shipping an actual product to the market). >…it will naturally take longer. Whatever they're working on at this point, maybe it would have been better to stay in academia for a while longer before starting up the hype machine… But oh well, we shall see eventually, one way or another.
      - cjsawyer 9y ago
        Same thing with cars, TV’s, airplanes. Basically every piece of important technology was selling to the public before the first “good” iteration.
pwaivers 9y ago
So... Can we buy the product?
- TremendousJudge 9y ago
  It just says "shipping in 2018". I still feel like Magic Leap is vaporware for some reason
  - cinquemb 9y ago
    It also says "Product is continually advancing and may be different at time of shipment", which makes me wonder what is going on.
  - cryptoz 9y ago
    Magic Leap promised a completely goggles-free AR experience. You could load up hundreds of people in a room and show them AR demos. You could be on a beach and watch a communal AR event with thousands of people. You could teach in a classroom without any kinds of headgear or goggles or anything. Magic Leap is 100% vapourware, even if they release some headset. Magic Leap are liars and cheaters and full of BS vapourwear claims until they release their Magic Leap thing with no headset that gives perfect AR to everyone. Until that day they are liars and cheats. Edit: Source, magicleap.com circa 2015 or so. https://web.archive.org/web/20150402084910/http://www.magicleap.com/#/home https://web.archive.org/web/20150402084910/http://www.magicl...
    - Ajedi32 9y ago
      > Magic Leap promised a completely goggles-free AR experience Nowhere on that page does it say anything about "goggles-free AR". Heck, the page is so vague it's not even 100% clear it's talking about AR at all. If you went and misinterpreted that vague marketing teaser as a promise of pie-in-the-sky technology, that's on you.
      - abritinthebay 9y ago
        Their early promotional material sure implied that strongly. They may have a cool product but they over-hyped the hell out of themselves three years ago and they don't even have physical units to demo yet. That's a massive marketing failure.
MBCook 9y ago
I’m getting SO SICK of random websites pausing my podcast because they have some ‘video’ on their page that screws it up. I couldn’t even see a video or animation on the page. But I was already pissed off before I started reading.
- RickS 9y ago
  IMO this is less a fault of websites that contain media, and more the fault of the OS that mediates what media is playing. In other words, there should be a toggle to "default mute the web and keep spotify running".
  - MBCook 9y ago
    I disagree. How is the OS supposed to know the difference? If you want to make a nice animation, how about not including an audio track? Or using the attributes to specify it should be played muted so it won’t cut my audio by default (what YouTube and others do).
    - rebuilder 9y ago
      The OS (or browser, rather) probably shouldn't allow autoplaying sounds at all.
    - llao 9y ago
      Your OS cannot play multiple audio streams at once? That sounds like Linux 10 years ago.
- y03a 9y ago
  What is it that's only allowing you to play audio from a single source at a time? On my desktop that sound just plays over other sounds, nothing pauses. I hate auto-play media as much as the next guy but your real problem is an awkward configuration or oddly limited device.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    I’m not on a desktop.
dmode 9y ago
Can someone comment on what are some compelling use cases for Magic Leap that can be developed using these APIs ? Still seems to me that they are constrained by a device that you need to carry
- cheez 9y ago
  For me, a completely virtual desktop for work.
  - aetherson 9y ago
    Highly limited field of view means that even if everything else lines up for this (which is unlikely), it won't work for you. EDIT: Also, this seems like a better use case for VR than AR. EDIT2: Also, it can't draw black.
    - cheez 9y ago
      I tried VR, way too immersive.
      - amelius 9y ago
        Maybe a better way to implement AR would be by combining real-world images (through cameras) with CGI into a VR goggle. One problem though: focusing your eyes doesn't work as expected. But at least you can get better black pixels.
  - curiousDog 9y ago
    As someone who suffers from neck issues, a VR/AR setup that’ll let me code without straining my neck while looking at a monitor would be a godsend. Is anyone aware of such a setup that exists today?
    - pedrocr 9y ago
      The Oculus Rift supposedly made that possible in one of the latest versions. But I'm curious why you strain your neck looking at a monitor and wouldn't looking at a virtual monitor. Don't you just need to adjust the monitor physical location to whatever the virtual location you would use?
fiatjaf 9y ago
Some years ago I saw (here on HN?) a video of an iPad app that showed kids drawing lines on blank paper, then tooking a picture of the drawings with the app. After that, they would be able to run nice games with those same lines serving as the scenario. Does anyone know what was this?
- davidmurdoch 9y ago
  There is https://attractive.se/games/papergame/ https://attractive.se/games/papergame/ and then http://www.quivervision.com/ http://www.quivervision.com/ does something similar with drawings.
- jsgo 9y ago
  Osmo?
bluetwo 9y ago
Will it help me find my keys?
walterbell 9y ago
Are there good 3D/depth cameras that work with Linux?
- VectorLock 9y ago
  Kinects?
  - walterbell 9y ago
    Looking for something comparable to the raw resolution of the iPhone X camera (which is a descendant of the old Kinect camera). Mainly older cameras on the market: https://stimulant.com/depth-sensor-shootout-2/ https://stimulant.com/depth-sensor-shootout-2/ On iOS, Apple won't let apps access the raw depth sensor data, only a reduced-resolution sample.
- lawki 9y ago
  I've been using the intel realsense D415 recently on linux/windows and it works quite well.
  - walterbell 9y ago
    Thanks, found a review of this camera in healthcare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5799357/pdf/10916_2018_Article_905.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5799357/pdf/109...
  - photojosh 9y ago
    Can concur. I'm running a pair of D435 under Linux. Still some teething issues, see the SDK and issues at [0], but the quality of the data out of these things is amazing compared to previous generation sensors. [0]: https://github.com/IntelRealSense/librealsense https://github.com/IntelRealSense/librealsense [1]: https://github.com/intel-ros/realsense/ https://github.com/intel-ros/realsense/
jhauris 9y ago
What does everyone make of perpetual license to content agreement? Is this just so they can operate the service, or are they able to sell and use your content without cutting you in? > Specifically, you grant Magic Leap a worldwide, irrevocable (except as set forth below), perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free and fully sublicensable right and license to use, copy, display, store, adapt, publicly perform and distribute Your Content so that Magic Leap can operate, deliver, and improve our Services.
- deleted 9y ago
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- fairpx 9y ago
  When lawyers set these things up, they tend to keep things as broad as possible. In practice this means that they can show how cool their technology is in a commercial, while showcasing your app without necessarily your approval. Obviously it would be absurd to make money of your content and not cut you in, since those types of actions ripple very quickly in dev communities.
  - drcode 9y ago
    You can't excuse a bad agreement by just arguing "it's so ridiculously in Magic Leap's favor that it's against their interest to actually enforce it."
  - taneq 9y ago
    In practice it also means they can bundle your killer game with their headset and not pay you for it. Would they? Probably not. Could they, according to this? Yes. (Not a lawyer blah blah.)
- tmuir 9y ago
  Call it hyperbole, but in light of the last few days Facebook revelations, these terms of service contracts are suddenly quite interesting. On one hand, this one at least, is written in marketing speech and legalese, switching narrative voices frequently, salesperson telling us how thrilled they are about entering a legally binding agreement with us, smoothly segueing to lawyer explaining to us, without a glimmer of salesperson's self-awareness, the lopsided agreement that has both salesperson and lawyer so frickin thrilled. I hope we are rapidly approaching the day of reckoning where these types of agreements are actively struck down as categorically irrelevant. Claiming up front, complete lack of obligation or blame for anything negative that may ensue from the use of, and the claim to exclusive rights to anything positive that may ensue from the use of, your software, is bogus, at least in the manner these terms of service do it. If you really claim all of these things, and want anyone to believe your marketing spiel about enthusiasm for legal arrangements, print it on a T-shirt, and go tell the world about it. Don't bombard me with marketing, and then take me off in a corner and get me to sign away any rights just as I've decided to use your product. I don't advocate for companies being defenseless, but it seems to me that this imbalance of culpability, and ownership rights, if they truly exist as the terms of service claims, might inspire the type of hubris that leads to what we see being revealed today. If the United States judicial system is so terrible that you aren't willing to subject yourself to it in matters concerning your behavior, fix the judicial system. Don't run to some parallel system you've captured simply by sophistication lent by your resources.
jhauris 9y ago
Is it unrealistic to hope for a linux SDK? They have Unity and Unreal SDKs (both of which engines support Linux in my understanding), and their custom OS is based on Android.
- robeastham 9y ago
  Would love this too.
fairpx 9y ago
It's nice that we can start building with the SDK, but I'm more interesting in experiencing what I've made. I'd rather have the device and build a simple hello world demo that inspires me to build more vs spend a bunch of time diving deep into an sdk and while having no idea how the end user will experience the stuff I create. With iOS for example, you could develop a majority of apps by just using the simulator, since the experience is (mostly) 2d. But I remember when starting out, the more fun projects to work on were using the accelerometer. The only way to experience the magic in that case, was with an actual device. With Magic Leap, the entire experience is spatial. So it's probably the other way around where the device is mostly the only way to really understand what it is that you're building.
- roymurdock 9y ago
  Yea very strange that they released the SDK and tools without the hardware. How r u supposed to know the ins and outs, quirks, user experience to expect on the glasses without playing around a bit with them first, maybe with a few pre supplied apps by magic leap. I can think of a few reasons, none of them good, to release tools before the platform
  - jpalomaki 9y ago
    I think releasing the developer hardware too early can ruin the whole product launch. People will form their opinion based on the reviews of the devkit hardware and sample apps. Launching the consumer product without apps is not good either. By launching the SDK early, developers can play around with it. Maybe they can even pick serious and promising apps to some "insider" program and provide access to real hardware.
    - deleted 9y ago
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    - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
      This is a modern thing which I don't think applies to technology that is (ostensibly) category setting. In the early days of consumer computing, the hardware was released with a handful of supported software that the hardware maker teamed up on, then MAYBE a devkit would come out. The most hardcore would create their own DevKits. http://devkits.handheldmuseum.com/ http://devkits.handheldmuseum.com/
georgewsinger 9y ago
It looks like Magic Leap is running a heavily modified version of Android. For a project to take pure Linux Desktop to VR, see SimulaVR: https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula If you are interested in seeing Linux Desktop go from 1% of Desktops worldwide to competing with Windows/Apple, show this project some love.
- lev99 9y ago
  https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/graphs/contributors https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/graphs/contributors I love seeing open source projects with multiple active developers. Georgeswinger has 47 commits on the project now, and is the third most prolific developer when ranked by commits.
- deleted 9y ago
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- qume 9y ago
  That's a breath of functionally fresh as in freedom VR air. Thank you
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mjal 9y ago
I feel like a site shouldn't have to assume that you're familiar with their product to understand what they're trying to push. This single page is useless to actually explain what this is in context, you need to click back to the main site (which is at the bottom of the page) to find out, and even then it's very sparse.
p1necone 9y ago
I still wont be convinced the magic leap isn't vaporware until I see a demo that isn't an obviously prerendered mockup.
sureaboutthis 9y ago
I had to go half way down the page to get a hint as to what this software is. I did not find anywhere on that page that describes it for anyone who doesn't already know what it is.
- sbarre 9y ago
  To be fair, the early-adopter audience for this SDK product is definitely one who already knows what Magic Leap is, and what this would be for. I would assume once the project is generally available, more time/effort will be spent marketing the creator tools to a wider developer audience.
  - sureaboutthis 9y ago
    If one wants to promote anything, explaining what it is on the front page would be essential. I see these omissions in abundance on tech web sites.
NIL8 9y ago
The front page should tell us exactly what this is and who/what it's for. Those with knowledge of this industry might be able to jump on board quickly, while everybody else is left scratching their heads.

345 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

Lots of really interesting details in the [developer documentation][1]. Quick summary of the hardware: * 6-DOF tracked controller * Eye tracking * Multiple depth of field display * Persistent location tracking across multiple rooms * Processor/GPU power comparable to "high end mobile hardware" And software: * Custom operating system based on Android (but heavily modified) * Multiple apps can run at once and be displayed in the same physical space And a few limitations: * FOV is going to be rather small * Variable depth-of-field display doesn't work well with objects less than a foot (30 cm) from your face * Takes a few seconds for the system to adjust when you move real objects around (so if you move your couch, it won't notice instantly) * The display can't draw darkness or black (virtual objects can't cast shadows on real ones) [1]: https://creator.magicleap.com/ https://creator.magicleap.com/ (Requires login)

epberry 9y ago
Yeah the variable depth-of-field not working well at < 1 ft is a just a property of the hardware sensors. I guess I don't know exactly what they are but if it's time of flight or stereo then they could make it work better at closer ranges but then it wouldn't work as well farther away.
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  That's referring to the user being < 1 ft from a virtual object, not a physical one. The docs say "Currently we do not recommend to having interactions with objects within 30 cm of your view for prolonged periods of time. When users approach too close to content for us to display, fade content out gracefully rather than sharply clipping the view."
michaelbuckbee 9y ago
I was really happy to see eye tracking in this list as I consider that a "gateway technology" that opens up a variety of additional really cool features. The big one is probably foveated rendering [1] which both allows for a more natural look as well as (hopefully) more efficient visuals. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX0wCdD2LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX0wCdD2LA
deleted 9y ago
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hokkos 9y ago
We still have to wait for the exact FoV, and the eye tracking seems interesting but it doesn't seems to be better than the Hololens, and won't be from the 2018-2019 Hololens.
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  Wait, the Hololens has eye tracking? That's interesting, I'd never heard that before. Anyway, I think the main innovation Magic Leap seems to be pushing over its competitors is its multiple depth of field display. It'll be interesting to see how big of a difference that actually makes in practice.
  - lwansbrough 9y ago
    No HoloLens doesn't have eye tracking. I think they're saying the device as a whole doesn't seem to be better than HoloLens. Which I might agree with. The form factor may be stranger though, which would be an accomplishment.
    - jadeddrag 9y ago
      Accurate eye tracking UI/UX might be the game changer that puts the ML over the HoloLens, despite its other shortcomings.
shostack 9y ago
I worry about the FOV piece as someone that experiences motion sickness from VR and normal non-VR games with narrow FOVs. For those more knowledgeable, is this something that is less of an issue because it is AR vs. VR?
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  I think it's very unlikely you'll get motion sick in AR, _especially_ AR with a small FOV. The vast majority of your vision will still be filled with reality, so it won't be all that different from wearing a pair of regular glasses, at least from your brain's perspective. Not to mention that Magic Leap's multiple depth-of-field display will likely simulate normal vision much better than current-generation VR displays, and that there's no artificial locomotion in AR.
  - haeffin 9y ago
    I get dizzy about half an hour into using the HoloLens. I am not sure why, I think it may be because the tracking/rendering doesn't quite keep up with fast head motions making the holograms "inconsistent" with the real world. It might also be that it's because of the accomodation/convergence mismatch ...
    - veganjay 9y ago
      Do you think it is related to the weight of the HoloLens? I find that many people feel uncomfortable after 20 minutes of use. And at least one person got a headache using it.
nneonneo 9y ago
The HoloLens has many similar features: * Persistent location tracking * Processor/GPU power (HoloLens is x86-based with a dedicated HPU unit for hand/environment tracking) * Custom OS based on Windows Universal * Multiple apps can run * FOV is small * Display doesn't work with nearby objects * Brief update delay for real objects - there's a short delay for direct object mesh tracking and a longer delay for spatial anchor updates, IIRC * Can't draw blackness From the last few limitations, it seems they may just be using the same waveguide displays as the HoloLens. Variable DoF sounds interesting - I suppose they're using eye tracking to provide blur-DoF effects, but I wonder how quickly they can adapt the image. Would also be interesting if variable DoF means something else. A tracked controller is nice but perhaps nothing too new. I wonder how they track the controller if it's out of the FoV of the head-mounted camera setup? HoloLens has a clicker controller but that's inertially tracked so it's much more similar to a gyro-mouse than e.g. a Rift controller.

eanzenberg 9y ago

Timing? It feels like VR is old news and there's no killer use-case for AR.

cjsawyer 9y ago
Welcome to the bleeding edge. If that’s how you think then tech may not be for you.
- eanzenberg 9y ago
  Right, so VR's been around for 30 years. Keep staying on "bleeding edge" lul.
  - HammadB 9y ago
    This is an odd way of looking at in my opinion. Apple started making the newton tablet in 1987 and the iPad came to fruition in 2010. The underlying technology for a compelling and consumer-ready VR/AR/<buzzacronym of choice> is much harder problem to solve, it will naturally take longer. I think the software industry sometimes has too short a timescale in its understanding of "bleeding edge".
    - cinquemb 9y ago
      >Apple started making the newton tablet in 1987 I'd say it also helped that Apple had already shipped the Apple II and derivatives before 1987 so that they could at least burn some percent of revenue on R&D (if you want to also ignore how they were also struggling from the mid 80's to the 90's even after already shipping an actual product to the market). >…it will naturally take longer. Whatever they're working on at this point, maybe it would have been better to stay in academia for a while longer before starting up the hype machine… But oh well, we shall see eventually, one way or another.
    - cjsawyer 9y ago
      Same thing with cars, TV’s, airplanes. Basically every piece of important technology was selling to the public before the first “good” iteration.

pwaivers 9y ago

So... Can we buy the product?

TremendousJudge 9y ago
It just says "shipping in 2018". I still feel like Magic Leap is vaporware for some reason
- cinquemb 9y ago
  It also says "Product is continually advancing and may be different at time of shipment", which makes me wonder what is going on.
- cryptoz 9y ago
  Magic Leap promised a completely goggles-free AR experience. You could load up hundreds of people in a room and show them AR demos. You could be on a beach and watch a communal AR event with thousands of people. You could teach in a classroom without any kinds of headgear or goggles or anything. Magic Leap is 100% vapourware, even if they release some headset. Magic Leap are liars and cheaters and full of BS vapourwear claims until they release their Magic Leap thing with no headset that gives perfect AR to everyone. Until that day they are liars and cheats. Edit: Source, magicleap.com circa 2015 or so. https://web.archive.org/web/20150402084910/http://www.magicleap.com/#/home https://web.archive.org/web/20150402084910/http://www.magicl...
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    > Magic Leap promised a completely goggles-free AR experience Nowhere on that page does it say anything about "goggles-free AR". Heck, the page is so vague it's not even 100% clear it's talking about AR at all. If you went and misinterpreted that vague marketing teaser as a promise of pie-in-the-sky technology, that's on you.
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      Their early promotional material sure implied that strongly. They may have a cool product but they over-hyped the hell out of themselves three years ago and they don't even have physical units to demo yet. That's a massive marketing failure.

MBCook 9y ago

I’m getting SO SICK of random websites pausing my podcast because they have some ‘video’ on their page that screws it up. I couldn’t even see a video or animation on the page. But I was already pissed off before I started reading.

RickS 9y ago
IMO this is less a fault of websites that contain media, and more the fault of the OS that mediates what media is playing. In other words, there should be a toggle to "default mute the web and keep spotify running".
- MBCook 9y ago
  I disagree. How is the OS supposed to know the difference? If you want to make a nice animation, how about not including an audio track? Or using the attributes to specify it should be played muted so it won’t cut my audio by default (what YouTube and others do).
  - rebuilder 9y ago
    The OS (or browser, rather) probably shouldn't allow autoplaying sounds at all.
  - llao 9y ago
    Your OS cannot play multiple audio streams at once? That sounds like Linux 10 years ago.
y03a 9y ago
What is it that's only allowing you to play audio from a single source at a time? On my desktop that sound just plays over other sounds, nothing pauses. I hate auto-play media as much as the next guy but your real problem is an awkward configuration or oddly limited device.
- MBCook 9y ago
  I’m not on a desktop.

dmode 9y ago

Can someone comment on what are some compelling use cases for Magic Leap that can be developed using these APIs ? Still seems to me that they are constrained by a device that you need to carry

cheez 9y ago
For me, a completely virtual desktop for work.
- aetherson 9y ago
  Highly limited field of view means that even if everything else lines up for this (which is unlikely), it won't work for you. EDIT: Also, this seems like a better use case for VR than AR. EDIT2: Also, it can't draw black.
  - cheez 9y ago
    I tried VR, way too immersive.
    - amelius 9y ago
      Maybe a better way to implement AR would be by combining real-world images (through cameras) with CGI into a VR goggle. One problem though: focusing your eyes doesn't work as expected. But at least you can get better black pixels.
- curiousDog 9y ago
  As someone who suffers from neck issues, a VR/AR setup that’ll let me code without straining my neck while looking at a monitor would be a godsend. Is anyone aware of such a setup that exists today?
  - pedrocr 9y ago
    The Oculus Rift supposedly made that possible in one of the latest versions. But I'm curious why you strain your neck looking at a monitor and wouldn't looking at a virtual monitor. Don't you just need to adjust the monitor physical location to whatever the virtual location you would use?

fiatjaf 9y ago

Some years ago I saw (here on HN?) a video of an iPad app that showed kids drawing lines on blank paper, then tooking a picture of the drawings with the app. After that, they would be able to run nice games with those same lines serving as the scenario. Does anyone know what was this?

davidmurdoch 9y ago
There is https://attractive.se/games/papergame/ https://attractive.se/games/papergame/ and then http://www.quivervision.com/ http://www.quivervision.com/ does something similar with drawings.
jsgo 9y ago
Osmo?

bluetwo 9y ago

Will it help me find my keys?

walterbell 9y ago

Are there good 3D/depth cameras that work with Linux?

VectorLock 9y ago
Kinects?
- walterbell 9y ago
  Looking for something comparable to the raw resolution of the iPhone X camera (which is a descendant of the old Kinect camera). Mainly older cameras on the market: https://stimulant.com/depth-sensor-shootout-2/ https://stimulant.com/depth-sensor-shootout-2/ On iOS, Apple won't let apps access the raw depth sensor data, only a reduced-resolution sample.
lawki 9y ago
I've been using the intel realsense D415 recently on linux/windows and it works quite well.
- walterbell 9y ago
  Thanks, found a review of this camera in healthcare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5799357/pdf/10916_2018_Article_905.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5799357/pdf/109...
- photojosh 9y ago
  Can concur. I'm running a pair of D435 under Linux. Still some teething issues, see the SDK and issues at [0], but the quality of the data out of these things is amazing compared to previous generation sensors. [0]: https://github.com/IntelRealSense/librealsense https://github.com/IntelRealSense/librealsense [1]: https://github.com/intel-ros/realsense/ https://github.com/intel-ros/realsense/

jhauris 9y ago

What does everyone make of perpetual license to content agreement? Is this just so they can operate the service, or are they able to sell and use your content without cutting you in? > Specifically, you grant Magic Leap a worldwide, irrevocable (except as set forth below), perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free and fully sublicensable right and license to use, copy, display, store, adapt, publicly perform and distribute Your Content so that Magic Leap can operate, deliver, and improve our Services.

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fairpx 9y ago
When lawyers set these things up, they tend to keep things as broad as possible. In practice this means that they can show how cool their technology is in a commercial, while showcasing your app without necessarily your approval. Obviously it would be absurd to make money of your content and not cut you in, since those types of actions ripple very quickly in dev communities.
- drcode 9y ago
  You can't excuse a bad agreement by just arguing "it's so ridiculously in Magic Leap's favor that it's against their interest to actually enforce it."
- taneq 9y ago
  In practice it also means they can bundle your killer game with their headset and not pay you for it. Would they? Probably not. Could they, according to this? Yes. (Not a lawyer blah blah.)
tmuir 9y ago
Call it hyperbole, but in light of the last few days Facebook revelations, these terms of service contracts are suddenly quite interesting. On one hand, this one at least, is written in marketing speech and legalese, switching narrative voices frequently, salesperson telling us how thrilled they are about entering a legally binding agreement with us, smoothly segueing to lawyer explaining to us, without a glimmer of salesperson's self-awareness, the lopsided agreement that has both salesperson and lawyer so frickin thrilled. I hope we are rapidly approaching the day of reckoning where these types of agreements are actively struck down as categorically irrelevant. Claiming up front, complete lack of obligation or blame for anything negative that may ensue from the use of, and the claim to exclusive rights to anything positive that may ensue from the use of, your software, is bogus, at least in the manner these terms of service do it. If you really claim all of these things, and want anyone to believe your marketing spiel about enthusiasm for legal arrangements, print it on a T-shirt, and go tell the world about it. Don't bombard me with marketing, and then take me off in a corner and get me to sign away any rights just as I've decided to use your product. I don't advocate for companies being defenseless, but it seems to me that this imbalance of culpability, and ownership rights, if they truly exist as the terms of service claims, might inspire the type of hubris that leads to what we see being revealed today. If the United States judicial system is so terrible that you aren't willing to subject yourself to it in matters concerning your behavior, fix the judicial system. Don't run to some parallel system you've captured simply by sophistication lent by your resources.

jhauris 9y ago

Is it unrealistic to hope for a linux SDK? They have Unity and Unreal SDKs (both of which engines support Linux in my understanding), and their custom OS is based on Android.

robeastham 9y ago
Would love this too.

fairpx 9y ago

It's nice that we can start building with the SDK, but I'm more interesting in experiencing what I've made. I'd rather have the device and build a simple hello world demo that inspires me to build more vs spend a bunch of time diving deep into an sdk and while having no idea how the end user will experience the stuff I create. With iOS for example, you could develop a majority of apps by just using the simulator, since the experience is (mostly) 2d. But I remember when starting out, the more fun projects to work on were using the accelerometer. The only way to experience the magic in that case, was with an actual device. With Magic Leap, the entire experience is spatial. So it's probably the other way around where the device is mostly the only way to really understand what it is that you're building.

roymurdock 9y ago
Yea very strange that they released the SDK and tools without the hardware. How r u supposed to know the ins and outs, quirks, user experience to expect on the glasses without playing around a bit with them first, maybe with a few pre supplied apps by magic leap. I can think of a few reasons, none of them good, to release tools before the platform
- jpalomaki 9y ago
  I think releasing the developer hardware too early can ruin the whole product launch. People will form their opinion based on the reviews of the devkit hardware and sample apps. Launching the consumer product without apps is not good either. By launching the SDK early, developers can play around with it. Maybe they can even pick serious and promising apps to some "insider" program and provide access to real hardware.
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  - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
    This is a modern thing which I don't think applies to technology that is (ostensibly) category setting. In the early days of consumer computing, the hardware was released with a handful of supported software that the hardware maker teamed up on, then MAYBE a devkit would come out. The most hardcore would create their own DevKits. http://devkits.handheldmuseum.com/ http://devkits.handheldmuseum.com/

georgewsinger 9y ago

It looks like Magic Leap is running a heavily modified version of Android. For a project to take pure Linux Desktop to VR, see SimulaVR: https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula If you are interested in seeing Linux Desktop go from 1% of Desktops worldwide to competing with Windows/Apple, show this project some love.

lev99 9y ago
https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/graphs/contributors https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/graphs/contributors I love seeing open source projects with multiple active developers. Georgeswinger has 47 commits on the project now, and is the third most prolific developer when ranked by commits.
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qume 9y ago
That's a breath of functionally fresh as in freedom VR air. Thank you

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mjal 9y ago

I feel like a site shouldn't have to assume that you're familiar with their product to understand what they're trying to push. This single page is useless to actually explain what this is in context, you need to click back to the main site (which is at the bottom of the page) to find out, and even then it's very sparse.

p1necone 9y ago

I still wont be convinced the magic leap isn't vaporware until I see a demo that isn't an obviously prerendered mockup.

sureaboutthis 9y ago

I had to go half way down the page to get a hint as to what this software is. I did not find anywhere on that page that describes it for anyone who doesn't already know what it is.

sbarre 9y ago
To be fair, the early-adopter audience for this SDK product is definitely one who already knows what Magic Leap is, and what this would be for. I would assume once the project is generally available, more time/effort will be spent marketing the creator tools to a wider developer audience.
- sureaboutthis 9y ago
  If one wants to promote anything, explaining what it is on the front page would be essential. I see these omissions in abundance on tech web sites.

NIL8 9y ago

The front page should tell us exactly what this is and who/what it's for. Those with knowledge of this industry might be able to jump on board quickly, while everybody else is left scratching their heads.