36 ms·
Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems
- Jedd 9y ago> De Beers is fighting Chinese lab-grown diamonds And I hope they lose. https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bullshit https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bulls... (and HN comments on original posting 2013-03-19 -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 )
- hyper_reality 9y agoI also highly recommend Edward Epstein's Atlantic article on this too: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo... One of the best pieces of long-form journalism ever published, without a doubt.
- jrs95 9y agoWhy was De Beers called “The Syndicate” in Israel? Was that where they had their supervillain lair or something? Almost all of the other names are trying too hard to be inconspicuous, and then they go with “The Syndicate”?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- justherefortart 9y agosyn·di·cate noun noun: syndicate; plural noun: syndicates ˈsindikət/ 1. a group of individuals or organizations combined to promote some common interest.
- jrs95 9y agoOf course the literal meaning of it isn't bad, but the connotation is pretty negative. Although perhaps it isn't there, it could just be the English translation that "sounds" that way.
- justherefortart 9y agoYeah, it's been used for "crime syndicate" for a while. But we call them organized crime. So shouldn't calling something an organized <blank> be negative as well? My goal for my Syndicate is like the old video game. Good times!
- arikrak 9y agoThe Priceonomics post didn't really say much more than the Atlantic article, I don't think it discussed synthetic diamonds or the internet or anything. Cubic zirconia looks identical to diamonds but it's not chemically the same so people always considered it fake. Synthetic diamonds are chemically identical so De Beers need to invest millions in figuring out ways to distinguish them. Natural diamonds don't add anything more, but the whole purpose of them is that they're expensive.
- CydeWeys 9y agoCubic zirconia is significantly different from diamond in hardness, optical dispersion, and density. Moissanite is a much closer match, but is more expensive to manufacture.
- ce4 9y agoAnd HN comments from five years ago on that The Atlantic article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- vanderZwan 9y agoIf you ever want a proof that the market can be utterly irrational, look no further than: > The arrival of lab-grown diamonds has challenged the widely-held assumption that diamond prices could only go up
- megaman22 9y agoI guess if there's no blood on your diamond, it isn't real...
- aaron695 9y agoJust like a drawing done by a random child is exactly the same as a drawing done by your own child? Of course it isn't real if it's missing blood, a stupid cliche with a movie to boot, but I'll run with it. Yes where it comes from matters. How it's made matters. We are not children in philosophy 101. The history counts.
- pjc50 9y agoSomeone should tell the bitcoin people.
- lawlessone 9y agoBut now we can make more diamonds :) there will never be more than 21 million bitcoin
- adbachman 9y agoUntil the next fork! Then there will never be more than 42 million bitcoin.
- zhte415 9y ago;) Until the nexr coin. And the next one. Etc...
- tsaoyu 9y agoGreat business idea. Here is the freshly made AD[1]. Curious to see if there is any business plan follow ups. [1](https://i.imgur.com/oD50taU.png https://i.imgur.com/oD50taU.png)
- petre 9y agoIt is only in the last half decade that technology has advanced to a level that scientists at De Beers, itself a pioneer in lab-grown diamond production [..] Of course they have their own diamond growing lab and Deep Sea diamond mining rigs. I too hope are beaten by other market players. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/a-new-frontier-for-diamond-mining-the-ocean/2017/07/01/a04d5fbe-0e40-4508-894d-b3456a28f24c_story.html?utm_term=.5a2cfc16728d https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/a-new-frontier-f...
- lawlessone 9y ago>Deep Sea diamond mining rigs That's actually ridiculous, we're destroying the enviroment to mine something we can produce cheaper in a factory. Not to mention the issues with blood diamonds. child labour etc.
- jseliger 9y agoMe too. When I was in the diamond market I got some from Diamond Foundry: https://qz.com/630512/would-you-propose-with-a-diamond-grown-in-a-lab/ https://qz.com/630512/would-you-propose-with-a-diamond-grown... which I also learned about on HN! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13038912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13038912 although I can't find which submission.
- saagarjha 9y ago> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".
- WingH 9y agoYep I am calling man-made gems “real” diamonds from now on. Der Bers, take that! (I hope your social listening catches this)
- mseebach 9y ago> Der Bers, take that! (I hope your social listening catches this) You probably might want to, like, spell their name even remotely correctly for that to happen.
- wolfgke 9y ago> Yep I am calling man-made gems “real” diamonds from now on. I believe that De Beers has hired a group of highly qualified advertising specialists. So your "little first world anarchy" is really futile.
- phkahler 9y ago>> From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones... Yes, for decades they claimed clarity and purity to be indicators of the highest quality. Now that humans can manufacture them with better specs than nature, they're shifting to claim that "natural" is better. In the end it's a pretty carbon lattice.
- notahacker 9y agoIn that respect it's the same as any other collectible or antique that can be reliably replicated in slightly better condition and with slightly less irregularity than the highly prized "mint condition" originals made by the most skilled artisans... (Less so for industrial uses, or for inserts into the average person's engagement rings where it's the thought and style rather than the provenance that counts)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- moccachino 9y agoFrom the article: >The arrival of lab-grown diamonds has challenged the widely-held assumption that diamond prices could only go up I'll admit I don't know a lot about the diamond market and perhaps I'm misinformed, but how on earth was this a widely held assumption? In a world where people are increasingly aware that De Beers and other companies hold major stockpiles of diamonds solely to keep the price inflated, and when man made diamonds for industrial purposes have been a thing for a long time?
- saagarjha 9y agoProbably because these are both relatively new developments? I'd wager that as recently as 5-10 years ago these were much less of an issue.
- mtgx 9y agoMaybe one day people will also realize that diamonds or other gems have "no intrinsic value", at least when used as jewelry. I know, crazy, right?
- lostlogin 9y agoDiamond blades on my grinder are great, and there is definite value in their hardness. If I could get nicer looking ones with good clarity it would make cutting rebar and grinding steel prettier.
- tibbetts 9y agoAn assumption can be widely held even if most informed people would dispute it. For example the widely held belief that housing prices will only go up, despite historical and theoretical arguments to the contrary.
- moccachino 9y agoThat is absolutely true. I guess my incredulousness stems from that I would consider myself rather uninformed about diamonds and other gemstones, and still I have found the future of the diamond business very questionable. Basically since I saw some movie about how they are kept in stockpiles, and also the movie Blood Diamond. I would have thought it to be rather mainstream knowledge.
- vadimberman 9y agoAbout 10 years ago, I had to deal with a vivid bunch of folks from Belgium. Some of them were related to the diamond industry in Antwerp. One just came back from Congo where he got screwed by a local hi-tech crook that managed to fake a diamond using a plain kitchen microwave oven. No idea how authentic his story was, but the microwave fake stuck in my memory.
- latchkey 9y agoThat made me google and this came up... http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Synthetic-Diamond/ http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Synthetic-Diam... Edit: cook it real good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWhtkkOYoxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWhtkkOYoxo
- vadimberman 9y agoWow, so they were telling the truth! I wonder if the perpetrators googled the recipe...
- xbmcuser 9y agoWhat's the difference man made or natural diamonds are no different.
- Jedd 9y agoIn what sense? I think that from quality, cost, and feature senses, there's lots of differences. Quality - industrial diamonds won't have the flaws that natural diamonds do. In some cases natural flaws add value, but that's a rare exception. Cost - the cartel keeps natural diamonds' prices inflated - so industrial diamonds win out again. Features - read the HN comments I quoted from 2013 in a sibling comment - evidently the industrial process allows for some creative colouring via the use of various gases. It means that matching the common 'rare' colours of natural diamonds is quite easy, but also means there's a bunch of new colours and effects that you just won't find naturally.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ocfnash 9y agoPossibly a good time to plug moissanite yet again: http://diamondssuck.com http://diamondssuck.com
- ansgri 9y agoAlso, fianite (rather popular in Russia, very few links in English — https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Fianite https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Fianite). BUT a friend of mine once said that she would never wear them since they're too chromatic, too much rainbow, therefore too prominent and that to her was a bad taste. I tend to agree with her: expensive everyday jewelry, clothes etc. shouldn't be in your face, but recognizable only on closer inspection.
- StavrosK 9y agoDoes anyone know of a reputable European moissanite store?
- ainiriand 9y agoI bought our engagement ring here, 0 complaints about them: https://www.moissanite.co.uk/ https://www.moissanite.co.uk/
- tuespetre 9y agoMoissanite is so much prettier!
- southphillyman 9y agoThis whole time I thought moissanite were "lab diamonds" but it appears that it's actually a unique gem in regards to chemical properties
- randyrand 9y agoterrible name though..
- userbinator 9y agoAs the price of diamond continues dropping, I wonder if people will find more interesting applications of the material and it'll eventually become as mundane as things like steel and aluminium. Besides its hardness, it also has very high thermal conductivity. Diamond is still too expensive to be a bulk material, but I look forward to when things like this become cheap and commonplace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Single-crystal_CVD_diamond_disc.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Single-crystal_CVD_diamon...
- Jedd 9y agoNeal Stephenson has a book that assumes such an advance -- it's not a key component of the story, but definitely features large in the title : The Diamond Age.
- 3pt14159 9y agoThat’s my favourite book of his, but I’ve stopped recommending it to non-programmers because I think much of it’s magic is knowing how much of it is actually possible in the future.
- Jedd 9y agoPossibly a key indicator of a quality SF idea / author -- how much closer we are to their universe a decade or two later. I've loved everything Neal's written, though I may begrudgingly agree with various critics that suggest he really doesn't do endings very well (REAMDE and Anathem are much, much better on this front). I've tried recommending various books of his to different friends, and I've concluded that I have basically zero predictive capability in terms of working out who would like which of his books. Maybe I've simply failed to grade them properly on the geek scale, but it feels like some of his more technical books appeal to people who don't normally like deep tech, and his deeply social commentary style novels appeal to people who normally push back against strong societal allegory. Which just makes me love his stuff even more.
- 9y ago
- sahoo 9y agoThere is a huge asset freeze on Nirav modi's assets who is one of the largest diamond business man in India for a 2 billion USD fraud.
- ForHackernews 9y agoWhy would you want a mined diamond with all the possible moral complications of child labour and third-world safety standards when you could get a lab-grown diamond of of objectively better quality?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- zaarn 9y agoI wonder if I could buy lab diamonds from alibaba, I'm currently not able to check. I would certainly get the cheap "fake" over the ""real stuff"".
- MereInterest 9y agoYou can, but they aren't as cheap as I had been hoping. If I recall correctly from when I searched a few years ago, they are about 30-50% the price of mined diamonds. Much cheaper overall, but not at commodity levels yet. I had been hoping that they would be cheap enough to buy a few hundred, then hand them out as party favors to weird people out. At some point, I hope they get there. Rubies, on the other hand, are ridiculously cheap. If I feel like picking up another hobby, learning to cut gemstones from bulk corundum could be rather fun.
- pythonaut_16 9y agoYou weren't kidding! It looked like you can buy 1kg of uncut rubies for ~$35 and 100 smaller cut rubies for ~$5
- icefox 9y agoReal rubies I awesome. I picked up 50 of them that are 1cm in size to replace the plastic ones that come in my board games. The weight of them in my hand is unexpected. The upside had to be when I brought them to work and got to pore a pile of real rubies into someones hands. Only "downside" is that even though they are really hard, they can scratch each other. But eh they are cheap enough that I just tossed them in a velvet bag and in the board game box.
- gruez 9y ago>Indeed, even the most experienced diamantaire’s in the world can’t tell the fakes from those extracted from mines when using their naked eye, which is where technology comes in if they look identical to the naked eye, how can jewelers and debeers justify buying the naturals? are you now buying the diamond for its "history" or "story"? is it like buying "organic" food? or is it purely because it was never about the diamond itself; the diamond was just a representation of how money you sank into your spouse?
- ce4 9y agoThey have control over the natural diamond production, much less so over the (man-made) diamonds industry. If they want the "diamonds are forever" adage to survive, they need the public to get the opinion that natural is the real thing.
- samastur 9y agoAs somebody who recently had to buy a replacement wedding ring I can assure you price of jewellery has little to do with price of materials. Mark-up is huge, but knowing this doesn't help you much if everyone is on the racket (to some extent).
- wolfgke 9y ago> if they look identical to the naked eye, how can jewelers and debeers justify buying the naturals? are you now buying the diamond for its "history" or "story"? For some certificate of "naturalness" that comes with the diamond which the jeweler will be able hand out to his customers.
- washadjeffmad 9y agoI bought a "real" diamond after protracted negotiations (with my SO, not the diamond seller), and I still don't really understand it. She cried more during the process than when her grandmother was dying, and she still wanted one particular diamond even though I'd explicitly given a significantly larger budget for either lab grown or moissanite. And although she understood why there was no real difference outside of price, I think she was very worried she would be judged by other women for not having (or being worth) a "real" diamond. She also felt that she wanted something that showed (again, to whom?) I recognized her commitment to me and that I thought she deserved to have the things she wanted, whatever they might be. She got me something in return which I never expected, so it wasn't at all one sided. And it really is amazing seeing all of the reactions and sidelong glances other women give to her ring. I've never noticed anyone's jewelry in any detail beyond that they were wearing some, but now it's like we're surrounded by car fanatics and she has a McLaren P1 strapped to her hand.
- tomtimtall 9y agoAt some point De Beers is going to do an elegant little flip and suddenly proclaim “engineered diamonds” to be far superior to anything that ever came out the ground... only just their particular brand of engineered diamonds.
- bawse1 9y agoI think that many of us are missing the main factor in what makes organic diamonds so expensive. Organic diamonds are "desirable". Desire is strong emotion that can defy logic and is pinnacle to the purchase of any luxury item. It is always the same argument when many of us like to compare a luxury item based on its utility rather than its desirability be it $100k tesla vs. $2k beat up honda, $1k iphone x vs. $600 android. The old honda can take you from point a-b, the android can do what the iphone can. Sure you can nit-pick differences between them but we forget how much of a premium we all pay for things we desire.
- djtriptych 9y agoOn the other hand, we don’t need $50,000 robots to tell the difference between phones or cars.
- Udik 9y agoTell the difference, no. But being sure that the difference really matters might cost you even more. Note that anybody can already see whether a diamond is natural or artificial with their naked eyes: by looking at the certificate that came with it (or didn't). The problem is deciding whether the difference matters.
- jimworm 9y agoCounting on that for my next startup, artisanal electricity.
- rconti 9y agoI already pay extra for 100% 'renewable' energy even though, of course, the actual power I am using is undoubtedly from mixed sources like everyone else's. If only they gave me a free sign to stick in my yard proclaiming my eco-consciousness....
- InitialLastName 9y agoEven better, artisinal AI: Have problem that's hypothetically solvable by AI? Send us some input data, and our experts will send you back a decision based on that.
- coldtea 9y agoFuck De Beers, their blood diamonds, and their useless engagement ring scam. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/how-an-ad-campaign-invented-the-diamond-engagement-ring/385376/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/ho...
- nailer 9y agoArticle is unahamedly biased and provably incorrect: > De Beers fights fake No. De Beers is fighting man made diamonds. They are no less real than mined diamonds. > De Beers to invest tens of millions of dollars on methods to identify the man-made stones that look exactly like the real thing. Man made diamonds are the real thing.
- cirgue 9y ago> Man made diamonds are the real thing. Not to people who want mined diamonds. They're the real thing to you if you don't care about provenience. Not everyone feels that way.
- nailer 9y agoThey might not be desirable to people who prefer mined diamonds, but a diamond is a diamond. I care about provenance - I find mined diamonds less desirable - but I still have to acknowledge that mined diamonds are in fact diamonds.
- foreigner 9y agoTen years ago I actually tried to buy a synthetic diamond engagement ring. My wife is a geek, I thought she would think it was cool. The jewelry store was offended when I asked.
- antisthenes 9y agoGood thing you weren't marrying the jewelry store then.
- ilamont 9y agoWhat will happen to the economies of South Africa, Botswana, and many other sub-Saharan countries if the market for mined diamonds and other jewels collapses?
- _djo_ 9y agoFor South Africa the impact will be very small. The entire mining sector has shrunk to just 7% of the economy, with diamond mining being a tiny fraction of that. Botswana is far more at risk, as around a third of their government revenues come from either diamond sales or diamond mining-related activities. They're already trying to diversify their economy though, as diamond prices have been falling for some time now.
- pimmen 9y agoThis is an industry that has a long history of human rights abuses and funding conflicts, not even mentioning the price fixing they've done by forming straight cartels. Boo hoo.
- SomeHacker44 9y agoI just don't get it. Who cares what the source of a diamond is? Isn't the point of a diamond its beauty in the eye of the beholder? If I had a big diamond I would definitely want the cheapest one possible with a visual aesthetic I like. Fortunately, my wife and I don't like diamonds and we have purple sapphires in our wedding bands.
- struppi 9y agoYes, I also don't understand that "it must be a natural diamond" craze. With all the problems of natural diamonds, I would prefer a lab-grown diamond...
- sizzzzlerz 9y ago100% marketing. When two competing products have an intrinsic difference of nearly zero, the marketing boys have to start making up campaigns that focus on anything that can drive a wedge between the products.
- sizzzzlerz 9y agoMy wife and I did a similar thing, not even bothering with precious stones but designing rings that featured some stunning turquoise set in white gold. Non-traditional? You bet, but neithor of us gave a fuck and we love them. Plus, we didn't go into debt to pay for them, using that money to entertain our guests.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoJewelry has always served as an efficient way to show status, hence the effort behind trying to grade a diamond and verify its origin.
- rhino369 9y agoIt's about rarity and authencity. You might as well ask why people buy first issue Superman Number 1 comics and not a reprint? Same shit pictures right?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
- andrewla 9y ago> At a trade fair in Hong Kong on Tuesday De Beers unveiled its latest diamond verification technology, the coffee-machine sized AMS2 that costs US$45,000 – already a substantial discount to the US$65,000 price tag of its predecessor. Within the first few hours of its release, over a dozen orders had flooded in, the company said. All I can think when I read this is that of course they get orders -- all the companies producing synthetic diamonds want to get hold of this machine so that they can train their production process to produce synthetic diamonds that register as organic.
- theandrewbailey 9y agoMaybe I missed something: how exactly is a diamond "organic"? Do you mean "natural"?
- rhino369 9y agoone definition of organic is more or less natural. Think of "organic growth."
- ballenf 9y agoWould be very surprised if they don't vet the purchasers and lock them down with very, very strict terms. In fact, I'd be surprised if they weren't more so loaning instead of selling the devices, with the right to reclaim in case of "misuse".
- TheRealPomax 9y agoYou can't vet friends of friends. If a respected jewelry house in Hong Kong buys one, that in no way implies a synthetic diamond producer isn't best bar buddies with the jewelry house's owner and deals for access to the machine aren't made outside of business hours.
- OtterCoder 9y agoI was about to quibble with you about the usage of organic, but then I remembered that diamonds are literally just carbon, so, by chemistry, you're right.
- speby 9y agoThis is great. I've heard of lab-grown diamonds for over 10 years now (and they've been making them longer than that). If the diamond market gets shook up over time, which I believe it really should, I hope the engagement ring market also gets a little shook up, which would be good too. It might encourage people to branch out a bit and look at other interesting and cool gems, like emerald, ruby, sapphire, and many others. The whole De Beers "Diamonds are forever" advertising from the mid-1900s is all bullshit anyways and yet managed to successfully brainwash generations of people into buying diamonds for their engagement rings. It wasn't always that way!
- uptown 9y agoWIRED had a cover story about this back in 2003: "THE NEW DIAMOND AGE" https://www.wired.com/2003/09/diamond/ https://www.wired.com/2003/09/diamond/
- captainbland 9y agoGood riddance to bad blood diamonds.
- sgt101 9y agoThe thing is that these diamonds aren't fakes - they are real diamonds. Also for many years there have been gluts of diamonds and the market has been rigged to keep them expensive. Eventually the flood gates will open and diamonds will get real cheap.
- alexandercrohde 9y agoYeah, I'd like it if the word real was put in quotes in the title of the HN post at least.
- giarc 9y agoDoes anyone know of a good, reputable online store that sells these lab-grown diamonds?
- TheRealPomax 9y agoI would like to know who held this "widely-held assumption" because everyone outside of debeers at this point knows full well how much of a scam diamond pricing is.
- danlash 9y agoMy SO is a geologist and likes the idea that Earth created the mineral over millions/billions of years through extreme processes. I'm a technologist, so I kinda like the idea that humans created something "better" using our tools and techniques.
- kenning 9y agohave you bought the diamond yet? it sounds like you guys are one of the rare couples for whom diamonds are particularly romantic. maybe you could buy half of a 'real' and half of a synthetic diamond and combine them?
- jallardice 9y agoI chose a lab-grown diamond to have set in my fiancée's engagement ring. It looks stunning, is significantly larger than I would have been able to afford if sticking to "natural" stones, and nobody can tell the difference. It's certified by IGI, which most people will tell you is not a good thing (you would generally look for GIA certification, and GIA refuse to certify lab-grown diamonds), but if you find a stone that is graded highly across the board by an IGI lab (colour D or E, cut Ideal or Excellent and clarity >VS1) it seems unlikely you'll be disappointed once it's set in a ring.
- wahlis 9y agoSpend your money on good craftmanship instead. The work of a skilled jeweller lasts much longer than any stone.
- SubiculumCode 9y agoThis is a story about a rentier near monopolist (DeBeers) desperately trying to fend off innovation that is making them irrelevant.
- enigma31401 9y agoDe beers blood diamond monopoly is over
- jasonsync 9y agoI recently went shopping for a diamond. Price depends on grading factors such as cut, colour and clarity (inclusions). I was surprised to learn that lab grown diamonds also vary in colour, and may have inclusions, and as such are graded on the same scale as natural diamonds. At most of the stores I visited, the price of lab-grown diamonds was about 30% cheaper compared to their natural counterparts at the same grade. Most surprising though was that the sales people were really pushing hard to sell the lab grown diamonds over the natural ones. I would imagine the markup and commission is much much higher.
- vinceguidry 9y agoThe sub-headline (is there a better term for it?) reads "The arrival of lab-grown diamonds has challenged the widely-held assumption that diamond prices could only go up," which only makes me chuckle. Did people seriously believe that?
- specialbat 9y agoThere are extensive diamond mining operations in the Canadian arctic. I always thought it ironic that people choose for a symbol of their love an object that necessitated destruction of the natural landscape and the production of toxic tailings. Often it is the government who has to do the clean up when it is done at all. It would be a fine thing if lab diamonds could stop this.
- smoyer 9y agoGood! ... The DeBeers cartel is monopolistic and exploitative. There's an interesting article that talks about how they initially created demand for diamonds as they weren't commonly associated with an engagement. I'm glad to hear there's a competitor that should at a minimum lead to a price correction.
- eco 9y agoDeBeers having a monopoly isn't really true anymore. DeBeers lost an antitrust lawsuit in 2012 and had already sold off its stockpile by 2004 under increasing pressure for a lot of new mines opening up, particularly in Russia, which wrestled away their control of the market. Prices of diamonds have actually shot up quite a bit since DeBeers lost control but I don't know what the explanation for that is (maybe they were artificially low because of the stockpile selloff?). I agree that this is a good thing though.
- henryw 9y agoThe article states the increase in price is because "supply in natural diamonds has peaked and due to strong Asian demand".
- Someone 9y agoIn the USA, people don’t primarily buy diamonds for their looks or physical properties, but as a signal to a significant other that they are willing to invest in a relationship. ⇒ If there is a large price correction, something else will replace diamonds (what that something will be is anybody’s guess) De Beers knows that, but wants to stay in the game, so they market “made by nature” as a pre of ‘real’ diamonds.
- rconti 9y agoIf the actual marriage itself wasn't enough of a commitment, I don't know what the stone says! My wife's engagement ring is a sapphire, and I later realized that her mother and grandmother also had sapphire rings. My wedding ring is $20 from Amazon. Good riddance, diamond jewelry industry!
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- astannard 9y agoSo De Beers argument is that their shiny rocks dug out from the ground are worth far more than shiny rocks made in a machine. When no one really cares and people cant tell the difference apart from experts saying they are "fake" to keep their own industries assets from plummeting in value?
- pierut 9y agooh no not our shineys!!!
- pierut 9y agooh no our shineys!
- solotronics 9y agohere is one of the Chinese diamond companies http://www.llgem.com/product/High-Purity-Synthetic-White-Rough-Diamond-for-Jewellery-with-VS-or-VVS-Level.html http://www.llgem.com/product/High-Purity-Synthetic-White-Rou...
- redspectre 9y ago"... has challenged the widely-held assumption that diamond prices could only go up." Did people really believe this? Sounds like these people are as delusional as cryptocurrency folks. No bubble lasts forever. When will people learn. Nothing can go up forever.
- iscsisounddirty 9y agoWhat makes them not real? They are identical chemically, so the only difference is Africans aren't enslaved to make them?
- ksec 9y agoHow much does it cost to produce synthetic diamond? Can I expect the price drop in half in 10 years time? I think Gold is way too cheap while diamond is way too expensive.
- dalbasal 9y agoI'm not sure if this article refers to cubic zirconia, moissanite or some new flavour of human-made diamonds but in either case, this is has been going on for 40 years. The market for diamonds isn't rational, so how it will behave is not predictable. First, the idea that diamonds maintain value is nonsense. This isn't gold or some other mineral "currency." You can sell gold anywhere for close to its spot price. Diamonds OTOH, have buy-sell "spreads" more like antiques or collectible shoes. So, the subtitle is already on the wrong path. Diamonds have never been good stores of wealth, that's why the earlier dowry traditions use gold, cattle, secret recipes or some other reliable asset. With cubic zirconia & moissanite, the diamond industry learned to recognise the "fakes." They've had machines for a while, but the industry also invested a lot in jeweler training. The reason for this is perception. If only machines know the difference... For the average buyer, they're encouraged to note differences in "brilliance" & "fire" which is kind of visible in certain light. Ironically, zirconia & moissanite are different from diamonds in opposite ways, one more and the other less fiery. This is a pure pr fight. If people use terms like "fake diamonds" then de beers wins. "Blood diamonds," then they lose. Curious side note: the CCP has influence on Chinese consumer culture that doesn't exist elsewhere. If they say manufactured diamonds are real, then they are. China doesn't mine diamonds, but they do manufacture them....
- skybrian 9y agoThe article is definitely not about cubic zirconia or moissanite, which are easier to distinguish. You don't need special machines for that.
- dalbasal 9y agoReplying to myself with a conspiracy minded thought.... Now that I think of it, De Beers probably has a strong interest in "fraud" being a problem. If manufactured diamonds are sold as natural, this is fraud. There will be victims, trials, fraud prevention... All good reinforcement that these things, they're not really diamonds. Fake is debatable. Fraud is something that you can get a judge to say. So, back toy initial question. What is this article talking about? Is this a new type of gem, or the ones that have already been available for decades. If not...
- etrautmann 9y agoThis is a bizarre take. There's no such thing as a "fake" diamond, just synthetic or natural. I can't imagine caring that a diamond is natural, especially when the synthetic can be engineered to have superior optical qualities.
- chuckkir 9y agoYou can't argue the genius that came up with "chocolate diamonds." You have a diamond that looks brown and ugly and can somehow make it desirable and even rare. While I swore off natural diamonds a long time ago, somehow I feel like DeBeers will be able to spin this and come out ok.
- ajiang 9y agoLooking forward to the YC-backed diamond company that produces indistinguishable lab-grown diamonds.
- gweinberg 9y agoI'm hoping for someone to develop cheap synthetic ivory that is indistinguishable from natural ivory.
- rconti 9y agoExcellent news all around.
- urda 9y agoI see no problem with this. The Diamond market today is nothing but a scamming and exploitation.
- jwatte 9y agoBetter product, cheaper, with less people exploitation, is a win for everybody on Earth. Except the old cartel. (Which, btw, artificially limits supply of mined diamonds) There were attempts to do the same in the US fifteen years ago -- see for example "Apollo Diamonds." Maybe this time it'll stick?
- falcor84 9y agoI love these sorts of "is it the real thing" tests. This poses a great economic incentive for the producers to put effort into R&D to advance the state of the art. It's just like how image-based captchas have been incentivizing advances in computer vision.