10 ms·

> “People shouldn’t be forced to ‘upgrade’ to the newest model every time a replaceable part on their smartphone or home appliance breaks,” said Mark Murray, Ex

> “People shouldn’t be forced to ‘upgrade’ to the newest model every time a replaceable part on their smartphone or home appliance breaks,” said Mark Murray, Executive Director of Californians Against Waste. “These companies are profiting at the expense of our environment and our pocketbooks as we become a throw-away society that discards over 6 million tons of electronics every year.” This. Don't know when all this changed ( 80s ?) in the US, but even appliance repairs are sort of a thing in the past here. If a washing machine or microwave stops working people simply get a new one. I was quite amused to see an "Appliance Repair" van parked in my neighborhood in San Francisco the other day. I started chatting with the guy and turns out he was from Ukraine and told me that in the former Soviet Union countries, they never throw away any appliance if it stops working. They repair it. Same is the case in countries like India (where I was raised), china. Esp. in India, there are scores of Radio, TV, phone, appliance repair shops in every city and even in villages.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
I've been using a Macbook Pro with an external keyboard for the past year. The builtin keyboard no longer works: 1234567890- qwyuiop asdghjkl; zxcvbnm,./ Notice no E, R, T, or F keys. First the R key went out, and I got around that by leaving "r" in my paste buffer and typing Command-V instead of r. But then the T key went out about a month later. Apple wants $600 for a logic board replacement. It's so annoying to lug an external keyboard everywhere I go. Tiny wireless keyboards just aren't as responsive. But it's less annoying than paying $600 on top of a $2k MBP.
- RankingMember 9y ago
  That is delightfully stubborn of you. I wonder what really goes "wrong" with those logic boards. Could it be as simple as a bad solder joint needing to be reflowed?
- reaperducer 9y ago
  If it's a Macbook with a removable battery, check it for swelling. I had a Macbook experience similar symptoms and it turned out to be pressure being exerted from the swollen battery. Twice.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    I hear about this often, and it happened to my sister's Macbook as well (to the point it was obviously deformed and they tried to tell her she dropped it). Is this a case of people being more likely to complain about it because Macbooks are generally much more expensive than other laptops, or does Apple really have a battery problem with these devices?
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Lithium ion batteries tend to swell when they get old. It's pretty universal. I've replaced the battery in old UPSs as well a very old 4G iPod (in which the swollen battery was keeping the clickwheel from working properly).
    - RandallBrown 9y ago
      Apple has had battery problems in the past where they recalled batteries. Haven't heard of anything lately (last 4 or 5 years) though.
    - reaperducer 9y ago
      I'm surprised that the Apple people tried to make it seem like it was your sister's fault. In both of my cases, I went to the Apple Store and the batteries were replaced without hassle, without charge, and out of AppleCare. Once I didn't even have an appointment; I just walked in with it and they went, "Eeeew! We'll take care of that for you. Stand right there."
      - kbenson 9y ago
        In their defense, it was one manager or something, and the laptop was grossly deformed. I assume it was the battery, as I'm not sure of any other explanation. It was probably 6-7 years ago now, so the details are hazy, but I do recall her being upset and recalling how she actually got into an argument in the Apple store for a good 15 minutes before they finally accepted it. I'm not sure if they finally accepted it because they gave up, or someone looked closer and realized there were no marks on corners/sides to suggest a drop but more towards the center there definitely was deformation of the case. IIRC the tech that initially examined it was fine, but a manager came out after they took it in back.
- acomjean 9y ago
  Odd that "logic board" replacement is required for a keyboard fix.. The apple repairs timeout. A coworker who was looking at a battery replacement on an "air" was told it was 6+ years old thus "vintage" and no longer serviced by apple.
  - Scoundreller 9y ago
    At that point, you can part it out and get about US$500+ without the battery. At least thats what i’m doing now with a mid-2011. Still fetching the same prices for parts as last year.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Where do you sell them? eBay? I have a 2010 MacBook Pro gathering dust. I'd be happy to get pretty much whatever I could for it. It's never going to be used.
      - Scoundreller 9y ago
        eBay for parts. If you want to sell as a whole unit, do it locally.
- Scoundreller 9y ago
  Just buy a new logic board off eBay and DIY. You just need a couple torx screwdrivers.
- monological 9y ago
  If it's a logic board issue, it can most likely be fixed. Check these guys out: https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ They do excellent work.
reaperducer 9y ago
Appliance repair is still quite common in the U.S. The notion that white goods get disposed of as rapidly as they break down is something of an internet-spread cliche. Most large property management companies employ a group of repairmen, or have contracts with several appliance repair companies. If your refrigerator stops cooling in a large apartment building, the management sends a guy to fix it; they don't Amazon you a new fridge. Similarly, if your washing machine breaks, your home warranty company isn't going to send out a replacement machine until an appliance repairman says the thing can't be fixed. I've lived in about a dozen different apartments and houses in almost as many cities in the last 15 years. I've had my appliances fixed by repairmen at least five times. Interestingly, I had two brand-new GE appliances in brand new apartments that needed to be repaired within their first year of operation. But my current 1999 Maytag washer keeps chugging along without complaint. (Though its companion dryer has been repaired by a repairman twice — once for a clogged exhaust hose that caused a small fire, and once for a dead igniter.)
- mathgladiator 9y ago
  It also depends on the brand. I regret getting a Samsung for my area because if it breaks, then I am screwed. A key criteria for me now is the bias towards simple things that have operational support from the community.
  - mikepurvis 9y ago
    I specifically paid more for Whirlpool laundry appliances recently (over Samsung or LG) for this exact reason. I know that spare parts are available online and even locally, and many of the repairs are things I can even do myself (as I did with my previous Whirlpool top loader).
    - natecavanaugh 9y ago
      It seems like Whirlpool and Maytag have long histories of repair and general reliability (at least as far as their marketing and the zeitgeist go), so I wonder what's different about them vs Samsung or LG (maybe it's a tech vs mechanical approach to the problem? I know Chevy vehicles through the 50's-70's used a very limited and common set of parts on everything from the drive train to the car frame, whereas modern companies wish to optimize and reduce costs while innovating).
ghaff 9y ago
Microwave yes. Not sure about washing machine. And I've both had a service tech in and done my own repairs for a dishwasher, freezer, and an oven. It's definitely partly about the cost of getting a repair person in, especially for a major appliance where they have to come to your house. (Often twice. Once to diagnose and once to replace a part.) Though I'd note that repair parts, even from third parties, can be a pretty substantial portion of replacement cost even if you can diagnose with some certainty and do your own repair.
- irrational 9y ago
  >Though I'd note that repair parts, even from third parties, can be a pretty substantial portion of replacement cost This is so true. I've was shocked to realize that the parts to repair my dishwasher would very nearly equal the price of a brand new dishwasher. And all the 3rd party places seem to have nearly the same prices. Fortunately I talked to the manufacturer and they replaced the parts even though it wasn't under warranty anymore, but if they hadn't I probably would have just gotten a new dishwasher.
LastZactionHero 9y ago
I also hate feeling like such a weirdo for repairing my own appliances or electronics. "Ending is better than mending."
- blhack 9y ago
  Who is making you feel like I weirdo? I definitely don't think you're a weirdo. My wife thought I was a hero when I fixed our washing machine a while ago!
pkaye 9y ago
For many of these appliance repairs, the costs quickly add up to a large fraction of a new appliance. In some of the countries you mention, the labor cost is lower.
buckhx 9y ago
"Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches." Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, 1932
- kamaal 9y ago
  This is eerily similar to the essay from the Novel 1984. You just realize at one point in time, the growth of a capitalist society is limited by consuming power of the masses. So after that the only way to grow is to destroy and rebuild. Or in other words - 'War'.
craftyguy 9y ago
Probably about the time that it became cheaper to replace a thing than repair it. Labor is expensive in the US, and so are aftermarket parts. It might cost $400 to repair a TV, and $400 to buy a new, 'better' model. I've even witnessed folks choosing to spend a bit more on a new thing rather than repair the old out of fear the old thing will just break again soon and putting them in the same predicament. For most folks, that's a no-brainer. (personally, I would repair it myself, but that's not an option for some due to skills, required equipment, time, etc)
- ryandrake 9y ago
  I repaired my AV receiver recently with four $1 capacitors and a YouTube walkthrough. The local electronics repair shops wanted $100-150 just to look at it. Ridiculous. Edit: this repair took 1.5 hours and required only basic tools and skills.
  - justboxing 9y ago
    > this repair took 1.5 hours Yep. You essentially 'ate' the labor costs, which are exorbitant in the US. I recently had a plumber come in to look at my leaking toilet tank flush. Cost for parts = 10$ as I later found out at hardware store. Labor = 236$ (I'm not kidding). It literally took the guy 5 mins to change the flush balloon thingy. I observed him and now do it myself too. It's almost seems like Plumbers in the city (San Francisco) have ganged up together to set price for any kind of repair. I did call 2 other plumbers and they both quote price in between 220 and 240 USD.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      So only software developers are allowed to charge "exorbitant" labor rates? Plumbers (like mechanics) also often have set fees. Sometimes, the repair is really simple, as in your case, and would probably have been very easy to do yourself. Other times, there are going to be complications that can take quite a bit more time.
    - Retric 9y ago
      99% of the labor was showing up at your house. Fixing the thing in 1 second or 30 minutes is irrelevant relative to that.
some-guy 9y ago
I wonder if it's a combination of a) appliances are now much cheaper as a percentage of our disposable income b) planned obsolescence. The ironic thing is that we now have such easy access to repair manuals for stuff online. Some things have gotten much harder to repair though since the devices have become more compact (laptops and phones).
- intrasight 9y ago
  I have older appliances, and the Internet has definitely made it possible for me to repair things.
irrational 9y ago
I wonder if this is people just not realizing that things can be repaired? Between books and youtube videos I've been able to repair our washer and dryer, refrigerator, oven, dishwasher, vehicles (I once repaired a turn signal switch by soldering on a piece of metal from a soda can), etc. I've replaced many damaged ipad/iphone screens and they've all worked flawlessly afterwards. All of these things are already repairable. It just takes a little bit of research to learn how to diagnose what is wrong, figure out what parts are needed, and do the repairs. It used to be a lot more difficult before the WWW.
monomyth 9y ago
Just remember this was at least partly due to the high cost, scarce availability of such appliances and a long queue to get a new one.
- Scoundreller 9y ago
  But even when cheap imports flood the market, it’s hard for a lot of people to shake the “repair-everything” mentality.
macjohnmcc 9y ago
We had a washing machine (LG) problem that required the replacement of the drum. The drum was under warranty so no cost but the labor cost put it at around 2/3's the price of a new washing machine with new features and the new warranty. Same with repairs to our HVAC system. We had to have two visits to replace two in warranty items. The labor each time was just shy of $1000. The third warranty break down the guy gave us free labor because it was just getting ridiculous.
philipodonnell 9y ago
Alternate thoery: The repair cost of a new appliance will generally increase/stay fixed over its life (hard to find parts, labor rates remain fixed). The price of an equivalent new appliance will tend to decrease along an expected rate of innovation. Thus, the expected life of a product tends to reflect a pivot point where the repair cost curve exceeds some threshold where a new appliance becomes attractive financially. The rate of innovation is then the primary drive of expected product life, and if innovation increased in the 90s and 00s, expected product life naturally decreased. If innovation slows, expected product life should start increasing again.
arielweisberg 9y ago
The appliance repair model is as awful. Call around and wait for someone to come and fail to fix the appliance. Pay way too much for said unskilled labor. Either pay again or wait forever for the original person to come and do it right as they dodge your calls and try to avoid having to finish the job. Oh and you are still on the hook for the cost of parts. And oh yeah they broke something else while they were in there. Good luck getting them to admit they did it and fix it. Also they scratched up your floor and dinged your walls. Most of the people doing this kind of work are doing it for a reason, and it's not because they are reliable. The barrier to entry is low and there are little to no consequences for doing a bad job. Repeat business is not that important because things just don't break that often. And then when it is finally fixed you have an old machine and the next thing breaks soon after. Or you could buy something new with a warranty sold by someone with a brand to maintain. Also see Sam Vimes "Boots" theory.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Since it’s such unskilled labor it ought to be trivial for a rockstar developer to do.
kamaal 9y ago
>>Esp. in India, there are scores of Radio, TV, phone, appliance repair shops in every city and even in villages. Indian here. Our First TV we bought ran a good 25 years. It was repaired at least 2 - 3 times. Often for 1/10th the price of a new TV. It finally totally croaked. I salvaged speakers etc, and put it to good use. The TV we have now is running for 10+ years and is going strong. Its a CRT TV. I've told my family we will buy a big new LED one once this croaks. But its going quite strong. Given everyone around has moved on these latest LED TVs, my family is quite pissed that the TV is still running strong :) My friend gave a new LED Sony TV to me to see if it can be fixed. When I enquired the costs came up to 60% the cost of a new TV. At that point you wonder if you want to keep it and repair it, or just toss out and buy a new one. The problem is lack of serviceable part inside. Also they don't make durable products anymore. Even in India.

sillysaurus3 9y ago

I've been using a Macbook Pro with an external keyboard for the past year. The builtin keyboard no longer works: 1234567890- qwyuiop asdghjkl; zxcvbnm,./ Notice no E, R, T, or F keys. First the R key went out, and I got around that by leaving "r" in my paste buffer and typing Command-V instead of r. But then the T key went out about a month later. Apple wants $600 for a logic board replacement. It's so annoying to lug an external keyboard everywhere I go. Tiny wireless keyboards just aren't as responsive. But it's less annoying than paying $600 on top of a $2k MBP.

RankingMember 9y ago
That is delightfully stubborn of you. I wonder what really goes "wrong" with those logic boards. Could it be as simple as a bad solder joint needing to be reflowed?
reaperducer 9y ago
If it's a Macbook with a removable battery, check it for swelling. I had a Macbook experience similar symptoms and it turned out to be pressure being exerted from the swollen battery. Twice.
- kbenson 9y ago
  I hear about this often, and it happened to my sister's Macbook as well (to the point it was obviously deformed and they tried to tell her she dropped it). Is this a case of people being more likely to complain about it because Macbooks are generally much more expensive than other laptops, or does Apple really have a battery problem with these devices?
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Lithium ion batteries tend to swell when they get old. It's pretty universal. I've replaced the battery in old UPSs as well a very old 4G iPod (in which the swollen battery was keeping the clickwheel from working properly).
  - RandallBrown 9y ago
    Apple has had battery problems in the past where they recalled batteries. Haven't heard of anything lately (last 4 or 5 years) though.
  - reaperducer 9y ago
    I'm surprised that the Apple people tried to make it seem like it was your sister's fault. In both of my cases, I went to the Apple Store and the batteries were replaced without hassle, without charge, and out of AppleCare. Once I didn't even have an appointment; I just walked in with it and they went, "Eeeew! We'll take care of that for you. Stand right there."
    - kbenson 9y ago
      In their defense, it was one manager or something, and the laptop was grossly deformed. I assume it was the battery, as I'm not sure of any other explanation. It was probably 6-7 years ago now, so the details are hazy, but I do recall her being upset and recalling how she actually got into an argument in the Apple store for a good 15 minutes before they finally accepted it. I'm not sure if they finally accepted it because they gave up, or someone looked closer and realized there were no marks on corners/sides to suggest a drop but more towards the center there definitely was deformation of the case. IIRC the tech that initially examined it was fine, but a manager came out after they took it in back.
acomjean 9y ago
Odd that "logic board" replacement is required for a keyboard fix.. The apple repairs timeout. A coworker who was looking at a battery replacement on an "air" was told it was 6+ years old thus "vintage" and no longer serviced by apple.
- Scoundreller 9y ago
  At that point, you can part it out and get about US$500+ without the battery. At least thats what i’m doing now with a mid-2011. Still fetching the same prices for parts as last year.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Where do you sell them? eBay? I have a 2010 MacBook Pro gathering dust. I'd be happy to get pretty much whatever I could for it. It's never going to be used.
    - Scoundreller 9y ago
      eBay for parts. If you want to sell as a whole unit, do it locally.
Scoundreller 9y ago
Just buy a new logic board off eBay and DIY. You just need a couple torx screwdrivers.
monological 9y ago
If it's a logic board issue, it can most likely be fixed. Check these guys out: https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ They do excellent work.

reaperducer 9y ago

Appliance repair is still quite common in the U.S. The notion that white goods get disposed of as rapidly as they break down is something of an internet-spread cliche. Most large property management companies employ a group of repairmen, or have contracts with several appliance repair companies. If your refrigerator stops cooling in a large apartment building, the management sends a guy to fix it; they don't Amazon you a new fridge. Similarly, if your washing machine breaks, your home warranty company isn't going to send out a replacement machine until an appliance repairman says the thing can't be fixed. I've lived in about a dozen different apartments and houses in almost as many cities in the last 15 years. I've had my appliances fixed by repairmen at least five times. Interestingly, I had two brand-new GE appliances in brand new apartments that needed to be repaired within their first year of operation. But my current 1999 Maytag washer keeps chugging along without complaint. (Though its companion dryer has been repaired by a repairman twice — once for a clogged exhaust hose that caused a small fire, and once for a dead igniter.)

mathgladiator 9y ago
It also depends on the brand. I regret getting a Samsung for my area because if it breaks, then I am screwed. A key criteria for me now is the bias towards simple things that have operational support from the community.
- mikepurvis 9y ago
  I specifically paid more for Whirlpool laundry appliances recently (over Samsung or LG) for this exact reason. I know that spare parts are available online and even locally, and many of the repairs are things I can even do myself (as I did with my previous Whirlpool top loader).
  - natecavanaugh 9y ago
    It seems like Whirlpool and Maytag have long histories of repair and general reliability (at least as far as their marketing and the zeitgeist go), so I wonder what's different about them vs Samsung or LG (maybe it's a tech vs mechanical approach to the problem? I know Chevy vehicles through the 50's-70's used a very limited and common set of parts on everything from the drive train to the car frame, whereas modern companies wish to optimize and reduce costs while innovating).

ghaff 9y ago

Microwave yes. Not sure about washing machine. And I've both had a service tech in and done my own repairs for a dishwasher, freezer, and an oven. It's definitely partly about the cost of getting a repair person in, especially for a major appliance where they have to come to your house. (Often twice. Once to diagnose and once to replace a part.) Though I'd note that repair parts, even from third parties, can be a pretty substantial portion of replacement cost even if you can diagnose with some certainty and do your own repair.

irrational 9y ago
>Though I'd note that repair parts, even from third parties, can be a pretty substantial portion of replacement cost This is so true. I've was shocked to realize that the parts to repair my dishwasher would very nearly equal the price of a brand new dishwasher. And all the 3rd party places seem to have nearly the same prices. Fortunately I talked to the manufacturer and they replaced the parts even though it wasn't under warranty anymore, but if they hadn't I probably would have just gotten a new dishwasher.

LastZactionHero 9y ago

I also hate feeling like such a weirdo for repairing my own appliances or electronics. "Ending is better than mending."

blhack 9y ago
Who is making you feel like I weirdo? I definitely don't think you're a weirdo. My wife thought I was a hero when I fixed our washing machine a while ago!

pkaye 9y ago

For many of these appliance repairs, the costs quickly add up to a large fraction of a new appliance. In some of the countries you mention, the labor cost is lower.

buckhx 9y ago

"Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches." Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, 1932

kamaal 9y ago
This is eerily similar to the essay from the Novel 1984. You just realize at one point in time, the growth of a capitalist society is limited by consuming power of the masses. So after that the only way to grow is to destroy and rebuild. Or in other words - 'War'.

craftyguy 9y ago

Probably about the time that it became cheaper to replace a thing than repair it. Labor is expensive in the US, and so are aftermarket parts. It might cost $400 to repair a TV, and $400 to buy a new, 'better' model. I've even witnessed folks choosing to spend a bit more on a new thing rather than repair the old out of fear the old thing will just break again soon and putting them in the same predicament. For most folks, that's a no-brainer. (personally, I would repair it myself, but that's not an option for some due to skills, required equipment, time, etc)

ryandrake 9y ago
I repaired my AV receiver recently with four $1 capacitors and a YouTube walkthrough. The local electronics repair shops wanted $100-150 just to look at it. Ridiculous. Edit: this repair took 1.5 hours and required only basic tools and skills.
- justboxing 9y ago
  > this repair took 1.5 hours Yep. You essentially 'ate' the labor costs, which are exorbitant in the US. I recently had a plumber come in to look at my leaking toilet tank flush. Cost for parts = 10$ as I later found out at hardware store. Labor = 236$ (I'm not kidding). It literally took the guy 5 mins to change the flush balloon thingy. I observed him and now do it myself too. It's almost seems like Plumbers in the city (San Francisco) have ganged up together to set price for any kind of repair. I did call 2 other plumbers and they both quote price in between 220 and 240 USD.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    So only software developers are allowed to charge "exorbitant" labor rates? Plumbers (like mechanics) also often have set fees. Sometimes, the repair is really simple, as in your case, and would probably have been very easy to do yourself. Other times, there are going to be complications that can take quite a bit more time.
  - Retric 9y ago
    99% of the labor was showing up at your house. Fixing the thing in 1 second or 30 minutes is irrelevant relative to that.

some-guy 9y ago

I wonder if it's a combination of a) appliances are now much cheaper as a percentage of our disposable income b) planned obsolescence. The ironic thing is that we now have such easy access to repair manuals for stuff online. Some things have gotten much harder to repair though since the devices have become more compact (laptops and phones).

intrasight 9y ago
I have older appliances, and the Internet has definitely made it possible for me to repair things.

irrational 9y ago

I wonder if this is people just not realizing that things can be repaired? Between books and youtube videos I've been able to repair our washer and dryer, refrigerator, oven, dishwasher, vehicles (I once repaired a turn signal switch by soldering on a piece of metal from a soda can), etc. I've replaced many damaged ipad/iphone screens and they've all worked flawlessly afterwards. All of these things are already repairable. It just takes a little bit of research to learn how to diagnose what is wrong, figure out what parts are needed, and do the repairs. It used to be a lot more difficult before the WWW.

monomyth 9y ago

Just remember this was at least partly due to the high cost, scarce availability of such appliances and a long queue to get a new one.

Scoundreller 9y ago
But even when cheap imports flood the market, it’s hard for a lot of people to shake the “repair-everything” mentality.

macjohnmcc 9y ago

We had a washing machine (LG) problem that required the replacement of the drum. The drum was under warranty so no cost but the labor cost put it at around 2/3's the price of a new washing machine with new features and the new warranty. Same with repairs to our HVAC system. We had to have two visits to replace two in warranty items. The labor each time was just shy of $1000. The third warranty break down the guy gave us free labor because it was just getting ridiculous.

philipodonnell 9y ago

Alternate thoery: The repair cost of a new appliance will generally increase/stay fixed over its life (hard to find parts, labor rates remain fixed). The price of an equivalent new appliance will tend to decrease along an expected rate of innovation. Thus, the expected life of a product tends to reflect a pivot point where the repair cost curve exceeds some threshold where a new appliance becomes attractive financially. The rate of innovation is then the primary drive of expected product life, and if innovation increased in the 90s and 00s, expected product life naturally decreased. If innovation slows, expected product life should start increasing again.

arielweisberg 9y ago

The appliance repair model is as awful. Call around and wait for someone to come and fail to fix the appliance. Pay way too much for said unskilled labor. Either pay again or wait forever for the original person to come and do it right as they dodge your calls and try to avoid having to finish the job. Oh and you are still on the hook for the cost of parts. And oh yeah they broke something else while they were in there. Good luck getting them to admit they did it and fix it. Also they scratched up your floor and dinged your walls. Most of the people doing this kind of work are doing it for a reason, and it's not because they are reliable. The barrier to entry is low and there are little to no consequences for doing a bad job. Repeat business is not that important because things just don't break that often. And then when it is finally fixed you have an old machine and the next thing breaks soon after. Or you could buy something new with a warranty sold by someone with a brand to maintain. Also see Sam Vimes "Boots" theory.

ghaff 9y ago
Since it’s such unskilled labor it ought to be trivial for a rockstar developer to do.

kamaal 9y ago

>>Esp. in India, there are scores of Radio, TV, phone, appliance repair shops in every city and even in villages. Indian here. Our First TV we bought ran a good 25 years. It was repaired at least 2 - 3 times. Often for 1/10th the price of a new TV. It finally totally croaked. I salvaged speakers etc, and put it to good use. The TV we have now is running for 10+ years and is going strong. Its a CRT TV. I've told my family we will buy a big new LED one once this croaks. But its going quite strong. Given everyone around has moved on these latest LED TVs, my family is quite pissed that the TV is still running strong :) My friend gave a new LED Sony TV to me to see if it can be fixed. When I enquired the costs came up to 60% the cost of a new TV. At that point you wonder if you want to keep it and repair it, or just toss out and buy a new one. The problem is lack of serviceable part inside. Also they don't make durable products anymore. Even in India.