4 ms·

Thank you. I wish more writers cared about readers time and include TL;DR in first paragraph with more detailed content below

dredmorbius 9y ago
Inverted Pyramid. It's Good Journalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism)
unclebucknasty 9y ago
Totally agree. Better yet, don't present an article whose value is premised on a set of facts as some kind of novella. >Just before 8 o’clock on a snowy Wednesday morning, deep in a maze of doors and steel fencing... Good grief. Just tell us what's happening.
gondo 9y ago
they need you to capture your attention to display you the ads. how else would they earn money? or do you expect them to work for free? would you work for free? would you pay for this article? i certainly wouldn't even though i was curious about the answer
- applecrazy 9y ago
  Maybe someone should start a website that collects user submitted TL;DRs for URLs and has a chrome extension to inject the tldr on the page.
  - pirocks 9y ago
    I believe this already exists. http://tldr.guru/ http://tldr.guru/
- Retra 9y ago
  How did human survival somehow come to depend on manipulating and exploiting people? Two things you don't seem to be considering: 1. Maybe most articles simply don't need to exist. 2. Basic income. Or literally any other way of earning a living.
- ssully 9y ago
  A story that is expressly written to hook you for ads is obvious both in how it's written and it's quality (hint: usually bad). There is a lot of trash written just to hook eyeballs so I understand your sentiment, but it's very tiring seeing these comments, especially when it's on a story like this that was well written and clearly not the kind of article you are saying it is. The headline in this case was written to hook your curiosity, but the overall story was meant to explore more then just that answer. While it does answer it's original question, the story is also very much about the history of gorillas in captivity, and how their diets, treatmeant, and original misconceptions keepers had evolved over the years.
  - gondo 9y ago
    how you read the story depends on your subjective judgment. some might find it well written, others might find it too long to get a simple answer to a simple question regardless how well is it written. edit: originally i was responding to the parent comment asking for TLDR on every article. this is not related to the content of this particular article
dswalter 9y ago
I appreciate the work that goes into carefully crafting a longform piece like this and usually prefer the full-course meal that this represents instead of the fast-food version you're asking for.
- kenning 9y ago
  Hiding the synopsis implies that the article is meant to be enjoyed as a narrative, and is not an urgent warning. Breaking news and other urgent matters ("Men walk on the moon", "Nixon resigns," "Net Neutrality abolished") have the synopsis clearly stated at the top. Do those count as "fast food?"
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Journalism style is supposed to be "inverted pyramid", such that all the sentences are ordered by decreasing importance to the audience. If you stop reading in the middle of the article, you only lose some of the details. It is a separate skill from writing an engaging narrative that builds up to a dramatic resolution. It is also a separate skill to know what style is most appropriate for your audience. I think most people casually browsing news on the web would prefer journalistic style to narrative style. But the ones who like narrative might also be willing to pay more for it.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      You can provide both. By way of analogy: a journey is in part about arriving at the (or a) destination, but it's also about the journey itself. Revealing the destination at the beginning, if it is in fact known, does not of necessity detract from the journey. And if an article is in fact about arriving at some conclusion, then, as a courtesy to the reader who is trying to determine how to allocate their own limited attention, providing some indication of where this particular journey ends may prove worthwhile. On the basis of the discussion here and criticisms of this particular article voiced, I'm about to close this particular HN tab and move on to others that may be vaguely more interesting and/or considerate of my attention.
- 9y ago
boomboomsubban 9y ago
The tagline does this. Gorilla hearts were stopping, the problems seems to have been in the gut. What disease was stopping their heart and what digestive issue was causing it are detailed content.
MadcapJake 9y ago
This is so wrong on so many levels. I wish "TL;DR" would just disappear. It's reductionist, lazy, and completely disrespectful to the writer. > I wish more writers cared about readers time I wish more readers would care about the writer's time spent crafting well-rounded, deep and expertly-crafted journalism. TL;DR and its ethos is why journos feel the need to write for clicks and sensationalize the material. If you don't have time to read the article, why do you think you deserve attaining its essence? Would you like your work and toil reduced to a one-liner?
- vernie 9y ago
  If the writer couldn't be bothered to study the gorillas herself what right does she have to write the article?
  - MadcapJake 9y ago
    So only scientists can write articles about science (and only the specific area that they research)? Would you say that only politicians can write about politics? You'd live in a pretty limited (and skewed) world of information if people could only write about personal experience. Or are you arguing that the writer showed little knowledge of actual gorilla research? You didn't provide any argumentation to support this perspective. > what right does she have Could you elaborate on how you got from TL;DRs to freedom of press?
    - Dylan16807 9y ago
      Hint: They doesn't believe that statement, they were using its ridiculousness to attack your point of "If you don't have time to read the article, why do you think you deserve attaining its essence?"

dredmorbius 9y ago

Inverted Pyramid. It's Good Journalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism)

unclebucknasty 9y ago

Totally agree. Better yet, don't present an article whose value is premised on a set of facts as some kind of novella. >Just before 8 o’clock on a snowy Wednesday morning, deep in a maze of doors and steel fencing... Good grief. Just tell us what's happening.

gondo 9y ago

they need you to capture your attention to display you the ads. how else would they earn money? or do you expect them to work for free? would you work for free? would you pay for this article? i certainly wouldn't even though i was curious about the answer

applecrazy 9y ago
Maybe someone should start a website that collects user submitted TL;DRs for URLs and has a chrome extension to inject the tldr on the page.
- pirocks 9y ago
  I believe this already exists. http://tldr.guru/ http://tldr.guru/
Retra 9y ago
How did human survival somehow come to depend on manipulating and exploiting people? Two things you don't seem to be considering: 1. Maybe most articles simply don't need to exist. 2. Basic income. Or literally any other way of earning a living.
ssully 9y ago
A story that is expressly written to hook you for ads is obvious both in how it's written and it's quality (hint: usually bad). There is a lot of trash written just to hook eyeballs so I understand your sentiment, but it's very tiring seeing these comments, especially when it's on a story like this that was well written and clearly not the kind of article you are saying it is. The headline in this case was written to hook your curiosity, but the overall story was meant to explore more then just that answer. While it does answer it's original question, the story is also very much about the history of gorillas in captivity, and how their diets, treatmeant, and original misconceptions keepers had evolved over the years.
- gondo 9y ago
  how you read the story depends on your subjective judgment. some might find it well written, others might find it too long to get a simple answer to a simple question regardless how well is it written. edit: originally i was responding to the parent comment asking for TLDR on every article. this is not related to the content of this particular article

dswalter 9y ago

I appreciate the work that goes into carefully crafting a longform piece like this and usually prefer the full-course meal that this represents instead of the fast-food version you're asking for.

kenning 9y ago
Hiding the synopsis implies that the article is meant to be enjoyed as a narrative, and is not an urgent warning. Breaking news and other urgent matters ("Men walk on the moon", "Nixon resigns," "Net Neutrality abolished") have the synopsis clearly stated at the top. Do those count as "fast food?"
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Journalism style is supposed to be "inverted pyramid", such that all the sentences are ordered by decreasing importance to the audience. If you stop reading in the middle of the article, you only lose some of the details. It is a separate skill from writing an engaging narrative that builds up to a dramatic resolution. It is also a separate skill to know what style is most appropriate for your audience. I think most people casually browsing news on the web would prefer journalistic style to narrative style. But the ones who like narrative might also be willing to pay more for it.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    You can provide both. By way of analogy: a journey is in part about arriving at the (or a) destination, but it's also about the journey itself. Revealing the destination at the beginning, if it is in fact known, does not of necessity detract from the journey. And if an article is in fact about arriving at some conclusion, then, as a courtesy to the reader who is trying to determine how to allocate their own limited attention, providing some indication of where this particular journey ends may prove worthwhile. On the basis of the discussion here and criticisms of this particular article voiced, I'm about to close this particular HN tab and move on to others that may be vaguely more interesting and/or considerate of my attention.
9y ago

boomboomsubban 9y ago

The tagline does this. Gorilla hearts were stopping, the problems seems to have been in the gut. What disease was stopping their heart and what digestive issue was causing it are detailed content.

MadcapJake 9y ago

This is so wrong on so many levels. I wish "TL;DR" would just disappear. It's reductionist, lazy, and completely disrespectful to the writer. > I wish more writers cared about readers time I wish more readers would care about the writer's time spent crafting well-rounded, deep and expertly-crafted journalism. TL;DR and its ethos is why journos feel the need to write for clicks and sensationalize the material. If you don't have time to read the article, why do you think you deserve attaining its essence? Would you like your work and toil reduced to a one-liner?

vernie 9y ago
If the writer couldn't be bothered to study the gorillas herself what right does she have to write the article?
- MadcapJake 9y ago
  So only scientists can write articles about science (and only the specific area that they research)? Would you say that only politicians can write about politics? You'd live in a pretty limited (and skewed) world of information if people could only write about personal experience. Or are you arguing that the writer showed little knowledge of actual gorilla research? You didn't provide any argumentation to support this perspective. > what right does she have Could you elaborate on how you got from TL;DRs to freedom of press?
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    Hint: They doesn't believe that statement, they were using its ridiculousness to attack your point of "If you don't have time to read the article, why do you think you deserve attaining its essence?"