7 ms·

Ask HN: How do you keep a good posture when you spend most of your type sitting?

115 points by kevindeasis 9y ago

taohansen 9y ago
I’ve made this comment before but I’ll do it again because I honestly feel like the way Westerners approach this problem is deeply wrong. Look to the East my brethren! Get a kneeling bench or meditation cushion set, buy a bench from Ikea, put your computer on it and get to work. This goes even better with an external ergonomic keyboard like the Kinesis and a height adjustable laptop stand clamped to the bench. Check it out! https://cloud.disroot.org/s/XZnwfi9m7xicyCx https://cloud.disroot.org/s/XZnwfi9m7xicyCx
- senorsmile 9y ago
  I really like this idea. I have struggled with back and neck issues for a long time. I think I shall have to try this. Btw, that thinkpad looks exactly like my p51s.
  - taohansen 9y ago
    It’s a P50! No kidding, I’ve struggled with the same my whole life. Got into Olympic lifting, saw chiropractors, osteopaths: moving to sit on the floor was the only thing that saved me. My Keybase is linked in my profile if you have any questions!
- graeme 9y ago
  Do you kneel or sit cross legged?
  - taohansen 9y ago
    I alternate throughout the day. You will need to if you are just starting out. Both postures encourage the lengthening of independent muscle groups. In this previous comment [1] I list a cushion and bench you may use for either style! [ 1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15737443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15737443
arun_dev 9y ago
To maintain good posture just start moving. I stretch several times a day, I stop my work on 5pm everyday, then run in park, stretch starting from neck to feet. Then some core exercises, movements like push-ups, pull-ups, deep squats, various movement for lower back strengthening, skipping(*some days). Please watch this https://londonreal.tv/e/bonus-full-beach-interview-ido-portal-just-move/ https://londonreal.tv/e/bonus-full-beach-interview-ido-porta...
gymshoes 9y ago
I follow a pomodoro-music approach. Play ambient music for 25 minutes and go for a walk. Apart form that, lifting weights in the gym and doing back exercises.
melvinram 9y ago
Stand for part of the day.
jschwartzi 9y ago
Lift weights.
- amingilani 9y ago
  Lifting weights was what fixed my posture in general. However, when sitting, I use an external mouse and keyword, and use my DnD starter kit and a few books to raise my MacBook to eye level. This keeps me sitting up, but doesn't fatigue my hands by keeping them raised. The only thing I regret with this setup is buying a bloody magic mouse. Just don't buy it.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  I’m gonna second this one. I’ve had all kinds of pain related to working at a desk all day. Wrist, back, shoulder, etc. Ergonomic equipment helped some, but it was getting stronger that finally made work related pain a thing of the past.
- daxorid 9y ago
  Cannot emphasize this enough. Deadlifts, in particular, are indispensable for posture and elimination of back pain. At least in the anecdotal experiences of myself and my friends.
- devbug 9y ago
  Deadlifts and squats. If you're a newbie, follow Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength."
  - test1235 9y ago
    Recommend 5x5 stronglifts ... not because it's a particularly good program (it's not - it's too easy to burn out early), but because it's a good resource to learn the main lifts initially. Lots of photos and explanations all in one place to make it as easy as possible for the new lifter. https://stronglifts.com/5x5/ https://stronglifts.com/5x5/
    - mod 9y ago
huy-nguyen 9y ago
I have an adjustable desk at work and alternate between sitting and standing every hour or so. The bathroom is also on another floor so I walk up/down the stairs a few times a day.
- sndean 9y ago
  > The bathroom is also on another floor so I walk up/down the stairs a few times a day. It does seem like this is one of the better ways to go about it, where you have to get up. In my case the vending machine that takes Apple Pay is across campus/base a quarter mile away.
Apreche 9y ago
I don't bother. I got a nice hunch going on. No back pain, though! I'm very comfortable.
Byteme8199 9y ago
Take breaks every hour or so to do a few minutes of deep squats, push-ups or any other stretchy activity. Not only will you be able maintain better posture, but you may also find yourself more refreshed to take on your work flow without mental fatigue.
iammiles 9y ago
I'll echo having a standing desk and alternating between sitting and standing. Also about every hour I'll try to remember to have a 5 minute walk.
episteme 9y ago
Obviously I am just one data point, but I spent many years with back pain and seeing Physios who would tell me to sit with better posture. They would give me endless stretches and exercises which I would spend time every day doing and suggest I stand for half the time if possible. No matter what I tried, sitting with good posture was never comfortable. It wasn't until I visited a physio who told me not to worry about it, that I could sit however was comfortable and it wouldn't hurt my back, people are built differently, that the pain started going away. I challenge you to find someone who sits with good posture who -doesn't- have back pain. So my question is, why do you want to sit in a particular way? What does good mean to you?
- thrav 9y ago
  I’m all about the lean back. My chair is always positioned as low and as far back as it goes. Takes pressure off your spine. Distributes weight over the entire back rest, instead of just lightly touching it. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15939377/ns/health-health_care/t/ease-back-pain-dont-sit-straight/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15939377/ns/health-health_care/t/e...
- johannesg 9y ago
  I'm a physio, and I'm so happy you were given good advice. Indeed, backs are strong and don't get damaged by sitting. Find a sitting position that's comfortable for you, because indeed, every body is different.
jimmaswell 9y ago
Not strictly answering the question, but something I've been thinking about in this area recently. In regards to ergonomics, it's right under our noses but it seems to be overlooked - cars' seats seem to have perfect ergonomics. I can sit in mine for 2 hours straight and have no desire to adjust anything at all, and getting out feel the same as before I got in, besides the unavoidable slight stiffness that'll come with any prolonged stillness like that. Compare to any other sitting arrangement, where I'll inevitably either want to adjust it over time, move in it a bit, or realize I've been sitting wrongly in it causing a minor back pain or the like. Maybe office desk/chair ergonomics need to take a cue from car interiors.
- calt 9y ago
  I'll strongly disagree with this one. After a day of driving I regret it. I don't own a car so o rent a variety of different ones. The headrest always forces my neck forward. The bucket shape of the seats closes my chest and causes shoulder issues.
bra-ket 9y ago
Take a break for a smoke every half an hour
- majewsky 9y ago
  s/smoke/walk/
jseliger 9y ago
Sit-stand desk: https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-de... As others have said too, lifting weights / yoga. There is no "easy" answer. Sitting seems very bad. These recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16465294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16465294 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215 are useful.
cimmanom 9y ago
1) This is absolutely crucial: Especially if you use a laptop, get an external keyboard and a very high riser for the screen (most risers on the market aren't nearly high enough). If you're both typing into your laptop keyboard and trying to view its screen, you'll have no choice but to slouch or hunch. To get the screen to the right height relative to the keyboard (for upright posture and elbows at a right angle at your side), even a short person should lift their laptop by over 18 inches (roughly the distance from waist to shoulder). 2) Get a vision exam annually and corrective lenses if appropriate so you never have to lean in to your screen.
- copperx 9y ago
  It has been my hope for the last few decades that a laptop manufacturer notices this and offers a laptop with a screen that can be raised without being detached from the keyboard. Having a screen in so close proximity to a keyboard makes zero ergonomic sense.
gk1 9y ago
I spend a lot of time on calls. Whenever I can (if I'm not on video) I stand up and pace around my office during the call. Some times I even grab a resistance band.
gringoDan 9y ago
No need for anything crazy - just position your laptop so the screen is at eye level when you're sitting up straight. My personal setup is Roost Stand + external keyboard & mouse. And I'd echo lifting weights.
henrik_w 9y ago
Not for posture per se, but two things that help me: - Using a standing desk, and alternating between sitting and standing during the day. - Using a break program (I use MacBreakZ) to do some stretches every 45 minutes or so.
maelito 9y ago
Use a desktop setup with a height adjustable monitor (or a pile of 'learn this language' fat books) and an external keyboard.
philfrasty 9y ago
Tip for anyone who wants to get into working out but has a hard time sticking to it: sign up for something where you book classes at a fixed time instead of just signing up for a gym. I have been working out at regular gyms for the last 10+ years (it's part of my biz) and recently switched to Crossfit with fixed-classes...insane how the combination of fixed appointment + small group fosters discipline/motivation.
tboyd47 9y ago
I'm an ergonomics geek. I had bad sitting posture for years, then struggled with severe shoulder and back pain for years after that. It got so bad that I could not sit and type for more than 15 minutes without collapsing at my desk. It became a career threatening emergency for me. I sought the support of specialists, doctors, orthopedists, physical therapists, physical trainers, etc. I did posture exercises, stretches, dry needling, replaced most of my office equipment, and so on. Now I can (finally!) work at a computer comfortably for 8 hours a day. The #1 thing that helped me was sitting forward, on the edge of the chair, with legs tucked in, and removing the arm rests so my arms hang down naturally. A lot of people say it's unnatural, therefore, unhealthy, for humans to sit for 8 hours a day, but that's not entirely true. Humans have been riding horses and camels since practically the dawn of history, sometimes for >8 hours a day, weeks at a time, however these animals do not have arm rests or back rests. The #2 thing was getting ergonomic equipment. Most office equipment is not designed for ergonomics, but economics. For a keyboard, I highly recommend the Kinesis Advantage2. The scooped design conforms naturally to the curves of the human hand. Though you have to relearn typing to an extent, it's totally worth it. You will also need an adjustable height external monitor. If you don't want to pay, don't be shy to ask your employer. It's an investment that pays off big in your efficiency. The #3 thing was doing wall slides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtlRQxwt3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtlRQxwt3g This doesn't help with the pain, but it is the only exercise I've ever tried that corrects kyphotic posture. Immediately after I started doing them, friends and family were asking me if I've gotten taller. It activates muscles in the upper back that I didn't even know existed.
- muzani 9y ago
  Microsoft also makes a lot of great ergonomic equipment that are priced mid range.
- specialist 9y ago
  Good post, much agreement, thank you, congrats on your health. I also sit forward. I think of it as active posture. I'm holding myself upright. Versus slouching. When I "lean into" my work, I imagine myself being more attentive, productive. (I wouldn't know how to measure that.) I'd only add that everyone should get regular physical therapy tune ups. I've always been active (hiking, cycling, gym) so I thought I was doing pretty good. Turns out I had been neglecting my smaller muscles and balance. I was shocked how much functionality I had lost. Like standing on one foot to put on the other sock. For further motivation, all the balance exercises have helped build my body awareness and therefore my posture.
memyselfando 9y ago
For me it just feels so good to do sports regularly, so I do sports 4 times a week for 30 minutes in my living room. I follow the exercises of the following book: "You Are Your Own Gym: The Bible of Bodyweight Exercises" by Mark Lauren and Joshua Clark. There is an exercise plan so you know what to do and nearly all exercises can be done without special equipment. And the best - most of the 30 minutes you just lay down and recover ;). I can really recommend it.
deleted 9y ago
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sebkap 9y ago
I recommend Gokhale method (https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...) which helped me fix my back pain and allow to sit for long periods of time without any problem. This book will teach you how to sit correctly and few other things about your back.
rb808 9y ago
Alexander Technique saved me, its a course where trainer makes you aware of your posture, especially about how you hold your head. Check if there is an instructor in your area more generally: Have monitors high so you are looking straight ahead. Feet flat on the floor a good chair that adjusts to your body. ie there is no way you can work on a laptop in a cafe 6+ hrs a day without getting chronic back problems.
- rublev 9y ago
  This is great. My new landlord teaches the Alexander Technique, I think I'll hit her up. This thread has been a godsend. Just sitting straight on the edge of my chair like someone else here mentioned helped with my shoulder blades, with no arm rests, feet tucked and on the ground, and looking ahead.
- pimlottc 9y ago
  > ie there is no way you can work on a laptop in a cafe 6+ hrs a day without getting chronic back problems. This is the dirty little secret of the hip modern agile coworking 24/7 hackathon startup/freelancer/diy tech lifestyle. Our sleek streamlined unibody laptops are amazing tools but they are horrible for our bodies.
- Kagerjay 9y ago
  Rule of thumb is to have the center point of your main monitor directly at eye level, or very close to it Leaning back in a chair is ok so long as your back is straight
- etiam 9y ago
  I'm imagining AR as a potentially major help here. The ability to define a virtual screen in an ergonomically appropriate part of the space ought to work wonders for a lot of on-the-fly offices. Of course by Murphy's law it will probably first cause a whole new class of ergonomy injuries due to extra, imbalanced weight on the neck, but one day...
zcarter 9y ago
One weird trick: sit at the very front of your chair with your thighs pitched down, weight resting on your butt. That will angle your pelvis forward, closer to a standing position. You should find it easier to sit upright with your spine straight.
avtar 9y ago
Lots of great tips here regarding taking breaks every 30 mins to stand, walk, stretch, etc. Yoga and other forms of core strengthening exercise will help reinforce better posture. If you don't do this already then ensure that your knees are lower than your hips by placing a cushion or something underneath you [1]. That seems to help promote the natural curve in the lower back. Doing that while gently lowering shoulders, keeping them back, and raising the chest forward a bit helps a lot. For me it's a dynamic process that requires frequent checking-in to make adjustments and release tension. [1] https://www.garmaonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Seated-Meditation-Alignment.gif https://www.garmaonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Sea... Linked from this site https://www.garmaonhealth.com/meditation-posture-manifests-goals/ https://www.garmaonhealth.com/meditation-posture-manifests-g...
salmonfamine 9y ago
I have scoliosis and a chronically screwed up upper back. If I sit at a desk with a bad ergo setup, I will experience back pain within 30-45 minutes. I'm pretty tall, so the majority of desk setups are, by default, too short, and force me to hunch over my keyboard. A good chair helps as well. Besides that, regular exercise helps tremendously. Seriously, if you do not exercise at least twice a week, I would strongly advise making beginning to do so your highest priority.
exabrial 9y ago
Proper desk height, proper chair height. I'm 6'4", so nothing 'standard' even confess close to being ergonomic
TallGuyShort 9y ago
I've had severe, 2-3x weekly migraines most of my life (I'm 30) and in the last year I've managed to virtually eliminate them. Posture turned out to be a big part of this. Some of the things I've done that seem to have made a huge difference: - Sit closer to the edge of my chair - I'm a bit shorter than many are designed for. I keep a small cushion between my back and my office chair. It keeps me sitting upright and helps my legs form right angles with themselves, with the floor, with my back, and be well-supported. With my back supporting itself more, I don't slouch as easily. If you're also short, also look into foot rests so your feet don't dangle. - I've spent some time messing with arm-rests but my current office chair can't get to quite the right height and I haven't found a good solution (don't want to buy yet another chair). The only migraines I've had recently felt connected to spasms in my shoulder, so I suspect that's still my weak spot. - Raise my monitor up, big time. It's actually at eye-level if I look straight ahead, not just at a level that seems normal for looking at. - Work out more. I just bought a moderately heavy kettle bell to build some strength and get my wriggles out. A few times a day when I walk by, I'll pick it up and do a few lifts in each arm, do a couple of back exercises. Not directly related to posture, but I'm sure it helps, and also helps with some related issues. Any moderate exercise is probably good. - Massage therapy every 6 weeks or so - often timed to be right after I return from a business trip or some other very stressful time. Now that I'm used to this, honestly I don't need much of an excuse to go :) Again, not directly related to posture, but if you're suffering from the problems related to bad posture, this could help to while you're figuring it out (since I'm sure it takes some experimentation for most people).
gldalmaso 9y ago
One thing I realized after starting Pilates was that before I didn't have good posture not because I didn't remember to sit correctly but rather I didn't have the muscular strength to keep my body on that position. With a weak abdominal core, you get fatigued from sitting straight and quickly relax to lean on the chair, putting strain on your spine which lead to back pains. You need exercise to have a healthy muscular strength to hold your skeleton properly. When you achieve that sitting straight is not the burden it felt before.
b0rsuk 9y ago
I don't sit except when necessary. I can do that because I'm looking for a job. It's been a few months and I noticed my bad back condition drastically improved out of sudden. I promised myself to never sit again in front of computer at home. I Currently have my PC next to bed. Standing desk is not a solution. Standing for long periods is less healthy than walking. Ask any barber about occupational diseases. They'll tell you there are issues with knees and blood circulation. Ask any person whose job involves standing for long periods of time, like a shop clerk. I do 40 minutes of core exercises 4 times a week due to my bad back, and it's helping a great deal. Recently I started incorporating the ultimate back exercise - pullups. But I believe the long term solution is a chaise or a very horizontal recliner, like a dentist's chair. Obviously you're NOT going to get something like that installed at a typical job unless you're the CEO I guess.
austincheney 9y ago
If you really want to improve your posture get really bad asthma and run a lot at fast speeds. The rest of the day you are in recovery and when the pollen or arosoles get really bad you will probably be spending a good portion of the day in a casual asthma attack. Today was really bad as I had to limit myself to a 14 minute two mile and that left me utterly exhausted. Good posture at this point becomes involuntary, provided you remain awake, as you are casually trying to focus with minimal air intake. Your body will naturally right itself into the most rigid form that benefits pulmonary relaxation at the cost of other muscle systems, particularly as the bonchial muscle systems approach muscle failure and your asthma symptoms subside.
CryptoPunk 9y ago
I find not leaning back when doing a physical activity like typing helps. So that means I lean a little a bit forward. This takes more energy but reduces strain put on the joints/muscles that are tensed while typing.
sunmag 9y ago
With an ergodox keyboard.
alsetmusic 9y ago
I used to have debilitating back pain. I saw chiropractors and got frequent back massages, wore a lifting belt at times, invested in a high end tempurpedic bed (which I recommend), and stretched daily. Besides the bed, the most useful move was a proper chair. I have an Aeron that I love and recently suggested the same for my brother, who also has frequent back pain. Whatever brand you choose, proper seating is invaluable. https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/office-chairs/aeron-chairs/ https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/office-chairs/...
peeters 9y ago
I had a heck of a time at my previous workplace being comfortable; tried different sitting positions, standing part of the day, etc. Then I came to my current workplace which had Aeron chairs. I don't even think about how I'm sitting now, I just sit how I'm comfortable. I sit reclined, my arms only a few inches below my shoulders, resting on my desk. My eyes are level with about 3" from the bottom of my monitors. I'm probably breaking every ergonomics rule. I have to have my phone remind me to get up, if it was just about comfort or back pain I could sit all day. Who knows if there will be long term effects from this, but my body is telling me no. Invest in a good chair.
moneytide1 9y ago
Quitting sitting job has allowed me to stand and move often.
cup-of-tea 9y ago
I lift weights and stretch on a regular basis. Even though I spend only a fraction of my time doing this and most of my time sitting I do not suffer from back pain or posture problems. I used to suffer from both. I've been doing strength training for almost two years now and I've got to the point where my strength is classed as "advanced". That's roughly where a reasonably strong person can expect to get to with consistent training and no drug use. I also finely control my diet. For strength training I used a program called Greyskull LP (Phrak's variation) [1] and for my diet I use Leangains. Both are quite technical and make sense to hackers, I think. Phrak's variation of GSLP is important because it places equal emphasis on pull movements for upper body. These are better for the shoulder joints than pushing and lead to having balanced strength. Unbalance is the cause of many pains and posture problems. For stretching I used a program calling "Starting Stretching" [3]. I was able to increase my flexibility significantly which helps me with cycling. [1] http://i.stack.imgur.com/OUcEY.png http://i.stack.imgur.com/OUcEY.png [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/wiki/faq [3] https://phrakture.github.io/starting-stretching.html https://phrakture.github.io/starting-stretching.html
- supreme_sublime 9y ago
  I've been doing Stronglifts for a bit, fell off for a few months but got back on it regularly the past 6 months or so. My biggest problem has always been my diet. I'm pretty used to eating whatever I want as I've always been tall and lean. At the moment I eat a lot of tacos, eggs and bacon, I also eat a spicy chicken deluxe from Chick-Fil-A for lunch every day I'm in the office. Probably not the best diet. I'm not opposed to eating healthier foods, but for the past couple weeks I've been doing time restricted eating to pretty decent effect. Basically the same thing as intermittent fasting, just not as much of a focus on the diet side of things. All this to say, all the advice I've seen online about what diet are focusing on macros, which is great. What I really want though is specific meals that are easy to make in large quantities so I don't have to spend all my time cooking. Do you have any resources for that? I've come across some sites like https://www.eatthismuch.com/ https://www.eatthismuch.com/, but last I checked the recipes are kind of lacking. Any recommendations there?
  - 9y ago
globuous 9y ago
EDIT: it doesn't actually address the question until the PS. Just my 2 cents on back pain while coding. But it implies not sitting.... Actually, something I just realized is that I'd rather be mostly lying and trying to find a neutral position that gives be proper head alignment while not 'flex' my neck muscles. It allows me to type use my computer while completely relaxed. It requires being able to lie down and exercise every 2h to 'activate' you muscles every so often. I know that in this position, I can type for 12 hours easy, a few days in a row (I'm only 26 though). My father has bad back pain (slipped disc for many decades) and since I was a kid I've seen him work on his computer lying down over week-end in his bed with a bunch of pillows. But I always wondered if this was actually a sustainable posture. What do you guys think ? Would I rather code sitting down as much as I can and only lie down when I need to ? But if it's better to kinda lye down like in a Lamborgini when using a computer, maybe that's the future ! ^^ I'm sorry I don't have a better recommendation for OP, good luck to you :) P. S. I've seen people recommend the Kinesis Advantage2 keyboard, just letting your know that my brother was going through RSI and this keyboard helped him tremendously. He also invested in an 'ergonomic' chair he felt comfortable working on. And also invested in a desk that you can raise and work standing up from. It's a big investment but he's feeling muuuuch better. You're an 'athelete' of the computers, I think that justifies buying 'athlete' equipment for us. Just like a race car driver has an crazy car or Federer has a crazy racket and good shoes.
bewe42 9y ago
I have a simple standing table arrangement. My main table is wide enough to put another small side table on it (bought for 5 quid or so at Ikea). Most of the time I sit, but several times a day I stand using the side table. Works perfectly. Standing up also helps me to re-focus. I highly recommend this.
bewe42 9y ago
I also recommend the foundation training. It's helping me a lot and really simple to do. Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOkRpabTWz-G5dRqsABppDQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOkRpabTWz-G5dRqsABppDQ
kyriakos 9y ago
I used to have back pain from sitting too long. So I fixed the problem by going to gym (couple of times a week) and taking short breaks every 45 - 50 minutes while at work. Just going to get a glass of water, visiting the bathroom, moving to talk to a colleague did the trick. Also push ups, almost daily, twice a day doing 20 push ups really made a difference.
ntlk 9y ago
I lift.
burkemw3 9y ago
I got glasses there were focused at approximately the distance my monitor is from my face (~1 arm length), in addition to many of the other things mentioned (chair/desk adjustment, walks, etc) I'm near sighted and the monitor starts getting blurry at just the right distance. I have glasses for nearsightedness that are focused very far out (the common case). Wearing them for constant work at arms length really tired my eyes out. So, I'd frequently work without my glasses, but hunch forward a little to make seeing things easier. With glasses dedicated for computer work, I can read everything I need to, my body can stay in the position it should be, and my eyes don't get nearly as tired. As a side benefit, the glasses help me focus in other areas of my life. I frequently wear them while cooking, and it helps me do one thing at time, as other stuff is blurry.

115 points by kevindeasis 9y ago

I’ve made this comment before but I’ll do it again because I honestly feel like the way Westerners approach this problem is deeply wrong. Look to the East my brethren! Get a kneeling bench or meditation cushion set, buy a bench from Ikea, put your computer on it and get to work. This goes even better with an external ergonomic keyboard like the Kinesis and a height adjustable laptop stand clamped to the bench. Check it out! https://cloud.disroot.org/s/XZnwfi9m7xicyCx https://cloud.disroot.org/s/XZnwfi9m7xicyCx

senorsmile 9y ago
I really like this idea. I have struggled with back and neck issues for a long time. I think I shall have to try this. Btw, that thinkpad looks exactly like my p51s.
- taohansen 9y ago
  It’s a P50! No kidding, I’ve struggled with the same my whole life. Got into Olympic lifting, saw chiropractors, osteopaths: moving to sit on the floor was the only thing that saved me. My Keybase is linked in my profile if you have any questions!
graeme 9y ago
Do you kneel or sit cross legged?
- taohansen 9y ago
  I alternate throughout the day. You will need to if you are just starting out. Both postures encourage the lengthening of independent muscle groups. In this previous comment [1] I list a cushion and bench you may use for either style! [ 1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15737443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15737443

arun_dev 9y ago

To maintain good posture just start moving. I stretch several times a day, I stop my work on 5pm everyday, then run in park, stretch starting from neck to feet. Then some core exercises, movements like push-ups, pull-ups, deep squats, various movement for lower back strengthening, skipping(*some days). Please watch this https://londonreal.tv/e/bonus-full-beach-interview-ido-portal-just-move/ https://londonreal.tv/e/bonus-full-beach-interview-ido-porta...

gymshoes 9y ago

I follow a pomodoro-music approach. Play ambient music for 25 minutes and go for a walk. Apart form that, lifting weights in the gym and doing back exercises.

melvinram 9y ago

Stand for part of the day.

jschwartzi 9y ago

Lift weights.

amingilani 9y ago
Lifting weights was what fixed my posture in general. However, when sitting, I use an external mouse and keyword, and use my DnD starter kit and a few books to raise my MacBook to eye level. This keeps me sitting up, but doesn't fatigue my hands by keeping them raised. The only thing I regret with this setup is buying a bloody magic mouse. Just don't buy it.
toasterlovin 9y ago
I’m gonna second this one. I’ve had all kinds of pain related to working at a desk all day. Wrist, back, shoulder, etc. Ergonomic equipment helped some, but it was getting stronger that finally made work related pain a thing of the past.
daxorid 9y ago
Cannot emphasize this enough. Deadlifts, in particular, are indispensable for posture and elimination of back pain. At least in the anecdotal experiences of myself and my friends.
devbug 9y ago
Deadlifts and squats. If you're a newbie, follow Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength."
- test1235 9y ago
  Recommend 5x5 stronglifts ... not because it's a particularly good program (it's not - it's too easy to burn out early), but because it's a good resource to learn the main lifts initially. Lots of photos and explanations all in one place to make it as easy as possible for the new lifter. https://stronglifts.com/5x5/ https://stronglifts.com/5x5/
  - mod 9y ago

huy-nguyen 9y ago

I have an adjustable desk at work and alternate between sitting and standing every hour or so. The bathroom is also on another floor so I walk up/down the stairs a few times a day.

sndean 9y ago
> The bathroom is also on another floor so I walk up/down the stairs a few times a day. It does seem like this is one of the better ways to go about it, where you have to get up. In my case the vending machine that takes Apple Pay is across campus/base a quarter mile away.

Apreche 9y ago

I don't bother. I got a nice hunch going on. No back pain, though! I'm very comfortable.

Byteme8199 9y ago

Take breaks every hour or so to do a few minutes of deep squats, push-ups or any other stretchy activity. Not only will you be able maintain better posture, but you may also find yourself more refreshed to take on your work flow without mental fatigue.

iammiles 9y ago

I'll echo having a standing desk and alternating between sitting and standing. Also about every hour I'll try to remember to have a 5 minute walk.

episteme 9y ago

Obviously I am just one data point, but I spent many years with back pain and seeing Physios who would tell me to sit with better posture. They would give me endless stretches and exercises which I would spend time every day doing and suggest I stand for half the time if possible. No matter what I tried, sitting with good posture was never comfortable. It wasn't until I visited a physio who told me not to worry about it, that I could sit however was comfortable and it wouldn't hurt my back, people are built differently, that the pain started going away. I challenge you to find someone who sits with good posture who -doesn't- have back pain. So my question is, why do you want to sit in a particular way? What does good mean to you?

thrav 9y ago
I’m all about the lean back. My chair is always positioned as low and as far back as it goes. Takes pressure off your spine. Distributes weight over the entire back rest, instead of just lightly touching it. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15939377/ns/health-health_care/t/ease-back-pain-dont-sit-straight/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15939377/ns/health-health_care/t/e...
johannesg 9y ago
I'm a physio, and I'm so happy you were given good advice. Indeed, backs are strong and don't get damaged by sitting. Find a sitting position that's comfortable for you, because indeed, every body is different.

jimmaswell 9y ago

Not strictly answering the question, but something I've been thinking about in this area recently. In regards to ergonomics, it's right under our noses but it seems to be overlooked - cars' seats seem to have perfect ergonomics. I can sit in mine for 2 hours straight and have no desire to adjust anything at all, and getting out feel the same as before I got in, besides the unavoidable slight stiffness that'll come with any prolonged stillness like that. Compare to any other sitting arrangement, where I'll inevitably either want to adjust it over time, move in it a bit, or realize I've been sitting wrongly in it causing a minor back pain or the like. Maybe office desk/chair ergonomics need to take a cue from car interiors.

calt 9y ago
I'll strongly disagree with this one. After a day of driving I regret it. I don't own a car so o rent a variety of different ones. The headrest always forces my neck forward. The bucket shape of the seats closes my chest and causes shoulder issues.

bra-ket 9y ago

Take a break for a smoke every half an hour

majewsky 9y ago
s/smoke/walk/

jseliger 9y ago

Sit-stand desk: https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-de... As others have said too, lifting weights / yoga. There is no "easy" answer. Sitting seems very bad. These recent discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16465294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16465294 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215 are useful.

cimmanom 9y ago

1) This is absolutely crucial: Especially if you use a laptop, get an external keyboard and a very high riser for the screen (most risers on the market aren't nearly high enough). If you're both typing into your laptop keyboard and trying to view its screen, you'll have no choice but to slouch or hunch. To get the screen to the right height relative to the keyboard (for upright posture and elbows at a right angle at your side), even a short person should lift their laptop by over 18 inches (roughly the distance from waist to shoulder). 2) Get a vision exam annually and corrective lenses if appropriate so you never have to lean in to your screen.

copperx 9y ago
It has been my hope for the last few decades that a laptop manufacturer notices this and offers a laptop with a screen that can be raised without being detached from the keyboard. Having a screen in so close proximity to a keyboard makes zero ergonomic sense.

gk1 9y ago

I spend a lot of time on calls. Whenever I can (if I'm not on video) I stand up and pace around my office during the call. Some times I even grab a resistance band.

gringoDan 9y ago

No need for anything crazy - just position your laptop so the screen is at eye level when you're sitting up straight. My personal setup is Roost Stand + external keyboard & mouse. And I'd echo lifting weights.

henrik_w 9y ago

Not for posture per se, but two things that help me: - Using a standing desk, and alternating between sitting and standing during the day. - Using a break program (I use MacBreakZ) to do some stretches every 45 minutes or so.

maelito 9y ago

Use a desktop setup with a height adjustable monitor (or a pile of 'learn this language' fat books) and an external keyboard.

philfrasty 9y ago

Tip for anyone who wants to get into working out but has a hard time sticking to it: sign up for something where you book classes at a fixed time instead of just signing up for a gym. I have been working out at regular gyms for the last 10+ years (it's part of my biz) and recently switched to Crossfit with fixed-classes...insane how the combination of fixed appointment + small group fosters discipline/motivation.

tboyd47 9y ago

I'm an ergonomics geek. I had bad sitting posture for years, then struggled with severe shoulder and back pain for years after that. It got so bad that I could not sit and type for more than 15 minutes without collapsing at my desk. It became a career threatening emergency for me. I sought the support of specialists, doctors, orthopedists, physical therapists, physical trainers, etc. I did posture exercises, stretches, dry needling, replaced most of my office equipment, and so on. Now I can (finally!) work at a computer comfortably for 8 hours a day. The #1 thing that helped me was sitting forward, on the edge of the chair, with legs tucked in, and removing the arm rests so my arms hang down naturally. A lot of people say it's unnatural, therefore, unhealthy, for humans to sit for 8 hours a day, but that's not entirely true. Humans have been riding horses and camels since practically the dawn of history, sometimes for >8 hours a day, weeks at a time, however these animals do not have arm rests or back rests. The #2 thing was getting ergonomic equipment. Most office equipment is not designed for ergonomics, but economics. For a keyboard, I highly recommend the Kinesis Advantage2. The scooped design conforms naturally to the curves of the human hand. Though you have to relearn typing to an extent, it's totally worth it. You will also need an adjustable height external monitor. If you don't want to pay, don't be shy to ask your employer. It's an investment that pays off big in your efficiency. The #3 thing was doing wall slides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtlRQxwt3g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOtlRQxwt3g This doesn't help with the pain, but it is the only exercise I've ever tried that corrects kyphotic posture. Immediately after I started doing them, friends and family were asking me if I've gotten taller. It activates muscles in the upper back that I didn't even know existed.

muzani 9y ago
Microsoft also makes a lot of great ergonomic equipment that are priced mid range.
specialist 9y ago
Good post, much agreement, thank you, congrats on your health. I also sit forward. I think of it as active posture. I'm holding myself upright. Versus slouching. When I "lean into" my work, I imagine myself being more attentive, productive. (I wouldn't know how to measure that.) I'd only add that everyone should get regular physical therapy tune ups. I've always been active (hiking, cycling, gym) so I thought I was doing pretty good. Turns out I had been neglecting my smaller muscles and balance. I was shocked how much functionality I had lost. Like standing on one foot to put on the other sock. For further motivation, all the balance exercises have helped build my body awareness and therefore my posture.

memyselfando 9y ago

For me it just feels so good to do sports regularly, so I do sports 4 times a week for 30 minutes in my living room. I follow the exercises of the following book: "You Are Your Own Gym: The Bible of Bodyweight Exercises" by Mark Lauren and Joshua Clark. There is an exercise plan so you know what to do and nearly all exercises can be done without special equipment. And the best - most of the 30 minutes you just lay down and recover ;). I can really recommend it.

deleted 9y ago

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sebkap 9y ago

I recommend Gokhale method (https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...) which helped me fix my back pain and allow to sit for long periods of time without any problem. This book will teach you how to sit correctly and few other things about your back.

rb808 9y ago

Alexander Technique saved me, its a course where trainer makes you aware of your posture, especially about how you hold your head. Check if there is an instructor in your area more generally: Have monitors high so you are looking straight ahead. Feet flat on the floor a good chair that adjusts to your body. ie there is no way you can work on a laptop in a cafe 6+ hrs a day without getting chronic back problems.

rublev 9y ago
This is great. My new landlord teaches the Alexander Technique, I think I'll hit her up. This thread has been a godsend. Just sitting straight on the edge of my chair like someone else here mentioned helped with my shoulder blades, with no arm rests, feet tucked and on the ground, and looking ahead.
pimlottc 9y ago
> ie there is no way you can work on a laptop in a cafe 6+ hrs a day without getting chronic back problems. This is the dirty little secret of the hip modern agile coworking 24/7 hackathon startup/freelancer/diy tech lifestyle. Our sleek streamlined unibody laptops are amazing tools but they are horrible for our bodies.
Kagerjay 9y ago
Rule of thumb is to have the center point of your main monitor directly at eye level, or very close to it Leaning back in a chair is ok so long as your back is straight
etiam 9y ago
I'm imagining AR as a potentially major help here. The ability to define a virtual screen in an ergonomically appropriate part of the space ought to work wonders for a lot of on-the-fly offices. Of course by Murphy's law it will probably first cause a whole new class of ergonomy injuries due to extra, imbalanced weight on the neck, but one day...

zcarter 9y ago

One weird trick: sit at the very front of your chair with your thighs pitched down, weight resting on your butt. That will angle your pelvis forward, closer to a standing position. You should find it easier to sit upright with your spine straight.

avtar 9y ago

Lots of great tips here regarding taking breaks every 30 mins to stand, walk, stretch, etc. Yoga and other forms of core strengthening exercise will help reinforce better posture. If you don't do this already then ensure that your knees are lower than your hips by placing a cushion or something underneath you [1]. That seems to help promote the natural curve in the lower back. Doing that while gently lowering shoulders, keeping them back, and raising the chest forward a bit helps a lot. For me it's a dynamic process that requires frequent checking-in to make adjustments and release tension. [1] https://www.garmaonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Seated-Meditation-Alignment.gif https://www.garmaonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Sea... Linked from this site https://www.garmaonhealth.com/meditation-posture-manifests-goals/ https://www.garmaonhealth.com/meditation-posture-manifests-g...

salmonfamine 9y ago

I have scoliosis and a chronically screwed up upper back. If I sit at a desk with a bad ergo setup, I will experience back pain within 30-45 minutes. I'm pretty tall, so the majority of desk setups are, by default, too short, and force me to hunch over my keyboard. A good chair helps as well. Besides that, regular exercise helps tremendously. Seriously, if you do not exercise at least twice a week, I would strongly advise making beginning to do so your highest priority.

exabrial 9y ago

Proper desk height, proper chair height. I'm 6'4", so nothing 'standard' even confess close to being ergonomic

TallGuyShort 9y ago

I've had severe, 2-3x weekly migraines most of my life (I'm 30) and in the last year I've managed to virtually eliminate them. Posture turned out to be a big part of this. Some of the things I've done that seem to have made a huge difference: - Sit closer to the edge of my chair - I'm a bit shorter than many are designed for. I keep a small cushion between my back and my office chair. It keeps me sitting upright and helps my legs form right angles with themselves, with the floor, with my back, and be well-supported. With my back supporting itself more, I don't slouch as easily. If you're also short, also look into foot rests so your feet don't dangle. - I've spent some time messing with arm-rests but my current office chair can't get to quite the right height and I haven't found a good solution (don't want to buy yet another chair). The only migraines I've had recently felt connected to spasms in my shoulder, so I suspect that's still my weak spot. - Raise my monitor up, big time. It's actually at eye-level if I look straight ahead, not just at a level that seems normal for looking at. - Work out more. I just bought a moderately heavy kettle bell to build some strength and get my wriggles out. A few times a day when I walk by, I'll pick it up and do a few lifts in each arm, do a couple of back exercises. Not directly related to posture, but I'm sure it helps, and also helps with some related issues. Any moderate exercise is probably good. - Massage therapy every 6 weeks or so - often timed to be right after I return from a business trip or some other very stressful time. Now that I'm used to this, honestly I don't need much of an excuse to go :) Again, not directly related to posture, but if you're suffering from the problems related to bad posture, this could help to while you're figuring it out (since I'm sure it takes some experimentation for most people).

gldalmaso 9y ago

One thing I realized after starting Pilates was that before I didn't have good posture not because I didn't remember to sit correctly but rather I didn't have the muscular strength to keep my body on that position. With a weak abdominal core, you get fatigued from sitting straight and quickly relax to lean on the chair, putting strain on your spine which lead to back pains. You need exercise to have a healthy muscular strength to hold your skeleton properly. When you achieve that sitting straight is not the burden it felt before.

b0rsuk 9y ago

I don't sit except when necessary. I can do that because I'm looking for a job. It's been a few months and I noticed my bad back condition drastically improved out of sudden. I promised myself to never sit again in front of computer at home. I Currently have my PC next to bed. Standing desk is not a solution. Standing for long periods is less healthy than walking. Ask any barber about occupational diseases. They'll tell you there are issues with knees and blood circulation. Ask any person whose job involves standing for long periods of time, like a shop clerk. I do 40 minutes of core exercises 4 times a week due to my bad back, and it's helping a great deal. Recently I started incorporating the ultimate back exercise - pullups. But I believe the long term solution is a chaise or a very horizontal recliner, like a dentist's chair. Obviously you're NOT going to get something like that installed at a typical job unless you're the CEO I guess.

austincheney 9y ago

If you really want to improve your posture get really bad asthma and run a lot at fast speeds. The rest of the day you are in recovery and when the pollen or arosoles get really bad you will probably be spending a good portion of the day in a casual asthma attack. Today was really bad as I had to limit myself to a 14 minute two mile and that left me utterly exhausted. Good posture at this point becomes involuntary, provided you remain awake, as you are casually trying to focus with minimal air intake. Your body will naturally right itself into the most rigid form that benefits pulmonary relaxation at the cost of other muscle systems, particularly as the bonchial muscle systems approach muscle failure and your asthma symptoms subside.

CryptoPunk 9y ago

I find not leaning back when doing a physical activity like typing helps. So that means I lean a little a bit forward. This takes more energy but reduces strain put on the joints/muscles that are tensed while typing.

sunmag 9y ago

With an ergodox keyboard.

alsetmusic 9y ago

I used to have debilitating back pain. I saw chiropractors and got frequent back massages, wore a lifting belt at times, invested in a high end tempurpedic bed (which I recommend), and stretched daily. Besides the bed, the most useful move was a proper chair. I have an Aeron that I love and recently suggested the same for my brother, who also has frequent back pain. Whatever brand you choose, proper seating is invaluable. https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/office-chairs/aeron-chairs/ https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/office-chairs/...

peeters 9y ago

I had a heck of a time at my previous workplace being comfortable; tried different sitting positions, standing part of the day, etc. Then I came to my current workplace which had Aeron chairs. I don't even think about how I'm sitting now, I just sit how I'm comfortable. I sit reclined, my arms only a few inches below my shoulders, resting on my desk. My eyes are level with about 3" from the bottom of my monitors. I'm probably breaking every ergonomics rule. I have to have my phone remind me to get up, if it was just about comfort or back pain I could sit all day. Who knows if there will be long term effects from this, but my body is telling me no. Invest in a good chair.

moneytide1 9y ago

Quitting sitting job has allowed me to stand and move often.

cup-of-tea 9y ago

I lift weights and stretch on a regular basis. Even though I spend only a fraction of my time doing this and most of my time sitting I do not suffer from back pain or posture problems. I used to suffer from both. I've been doing strength training for almost two years now and I've got to the point where my strength is classed as "advanced". That's roughly where a reasonably strong person can expect to get to with consistent training and no drug use. I also finely control my diet. For strength training I used a program called Greyskull LP (Phrak's variation) [1] and for my diet I use Leangains. Both are quite technical and make sense to hackers, I think. Phrak's variation of GSLP is important because it places equal emphasis on pull movements for upper body. These are better for the shoulder joints than pushing and lead to having balanced strength. Unbalance is the cause of many pains and posture problems. For stretching I used a program calling "Starting Stretching" [3]. I was able to increase my flexibility significantly which helps me with cycling. [1] http://i.stack.imgur.com/OUcEY.png http://i.stack.imgur.com/OUcEY.png [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/wiki/faq https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/wiki/faq [3] https://phrakture.github.io/starting-stretching.html https://phrakture.github.io/starting-stretching.html

supreme_sublime 9y ago
I've been doing Stronglifts for a bit, fell off for a few months but got back on it regularly the past 6 months or so. My biggest problem has always been my diet. I'm pretty used to eating whatever I want as I've always been tall and lean. At the moment I eat a lot of tacos, eggs and bacon, I also eat a spicy chicken deluxe from Chick-Fil-A for lunch every day I'm in the office. Probably not the best diet. I'm not opposed to eating healthier foods, but for the past couple weeks I've been doing time restricted eating to pretty decent effect. Basically the same thing as intermittent fasting, just not as much of a focus on the diet side of things. All this to say, all the advice I've seen online about what diet are focusing on macros, which is great. What I really want though is specific meals that are easy to make in large quantities so I don't have to spend all my time cooking. Do you have any resources for that? I've come across some sites like https://www.eatthismuch.com/ https://www.eatthismuch.com/, but last I checked the recipes are kind of lacking. Any recommendations there?
- 9y ago

globuous 9y ago

EDIT: it doesn't actually address the question until the PS. Just my 2 cents on back pain while coding. But it implies not sitting.... Actually, something I just realized is that I'd rather be mostly lying and trying to find a neutral position that gives be proper head alignment while not 'flex' my neck muscles. It allows me to type use my computer while completely relaxed. It requires being able to lie down and exercise every 2h to 'activate' you muscles every so often. I know that in this position, I can type for 12 hours easy, a few days in a row (I'm only 26 though). My father has bad back pain (slipped disc for many decades) and since I was a kid I've seen him work on his computer lying down over week-end in his bed with a bunch of pillows. But I always wondered if this was actually a sustainable posture. What do you guys think ? Would I rather code sitting down as much as I can and only lie down when I need to ? But if it's better to kinda lye down like in a Lamborgini when using a computer, maybe that's the future ! ^^ I'm sorry I don't have a better recommendation for OP, good luck to you :) P. S. I've seen people recommend the Kinesis Advantage2 keyboard, just letting your know that my brother was going through RSI and this keyboard helped him tremendously. He also invested in an 'ergonomic' chair he felt comfortable working on. And also invested in a desk that you can raise and work standing up from. It's a big investment but he's feeling muuuuch better. You're an 'athelete' of the computers, I think that justifies buying 'athlete' equipment for us. Just like a race car driver has an crazy car or Federer has a crazy racket and good shoes.

bewe42 9y ago

I have a simple standing table arrangement. My main table is wide enough to put another small side table on it (bought for 5 quid or so at Ikea). Most of the time I sit, but several times a day I stand using the side table. Works perfectly. Standing up also helps me to re-focus. I highly recommend this.

bewe42 9y ago

I also recommend the foundation training. It's helping me a lot and really simple to do. Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOkRpabTWz-G5dRqsABppDQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOkRpabTWz-G5dRqsABppDQ

kyriakos 9y ago

I used to have back pain from sitting too long. So I fixed the problem by going to gym (couple of times a week) and taking short breaks every 45 - 50 minutes while at work. Just going to get a glass of water, visiting the bathroom, moving to talk to a colleague did the trick. Also push ups, almost daily, twice a day doing 20 push ups really made a difference.

ntlk 9y ago

I lift.

burkemw3 9y ago

I got glasses there were focused at approximately the distance my monitor is from my face (~1 arm length), in addition to many of the other things mentioned (chair/desk adjustment, walks, etc) I'm near sighted and the monitor starts getting blurry at just the right distance. I have glasses for nearsightedness that are focused very far out (the common case). Wearing them for constant work at arms length really tired my eyes out. So, I'd frequently work without my glasses, but hunch forward a little to make seeing things easier. With glasses dedicated for computer work, I can read everything I need to, my body can stay in the position it should be, and my eyes don't get nearly as tired. As a side benefit, the glasses help me focus in other areas of my life. I frequently wear them while cooking, and it helps me do one thing at time, as other stuff is blurry.