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I had been optimistic about Krakow becoming a big tech hub, but the Polish government's shift toward authoritarianism makes that less likely.

kozikow 9y ago
Our startup is split between Silicon Valley and Poland. I would say the biggest problem with the current government are taxes. Desperate to fund the socialist policy of "500+", the government changes the "interpretation" of the current tax code. Suddenly programmers are taxed at a higher rate: e.g. https://www.wykop.pl/link/4196755/informatycy-nie-moga-byc-pewni-pit-ow-za-ubiegle-lata/ https://www.wykop.pl/link/4196755/informatycy-nie-moga-byc-p... . Besides that, the government tries to be friendly to tech startups. Another problem is GDPR. It sounds like the life of European startups is going to get much harder. One potential upside is EU funding. Having used both VC and EU funding I am not sure if it's really worth it, even if it's equity free.
- thraway180306 9y ago
  Polish tax code and adjudication has been a mess for a very long time. The actual rates have not changed, interpretations do change constantly and you can't get a binding one. There is no such thing. You can officially request some advice from the ministry explaining what the dues are in your case, but what this says is not binding for the revenue service if they choose not to refrain from harassing you with their creative interpretations. Combined with lack of precedence law every issue becomes a potential court gamble (and it is a gamble) if not resolved amicably. That this is new is just hot air about the current government (despicable for other good reasons).
LaGrange 9y ago
Also the air quality is rather terrible.
- kss238 9y ago
  In Krakow? Has it changed a lot in the past years? I was there in 2014 and the air was great.
  - kornakiewicz 9y ago
    Were you in summer? The problem with air pollution is rather seasonal and while in warmer months it's not an issue, winters are terrible. Source: I lived in Kraków for 4 years.
    - kss238 9y ago
      Yeah I was, so that was probably it.
  - eafkuor 9y ago
    It's so bad that Dynatrace, who is hiring in Gdańsk (another Polish city), is trying to convince devs from Kraków to move there with this: http://zmiensrodowisko.pl/ http://zmiensrodowisko.pl/
  - Guest9812398 9y ago
    I spent some time in Krakow and it has horrible air quality. Summer feels normal like any other city, but certain times during the winter it's difficult to see due to the smog. See the below video for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nxugvTmJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nxugvTmJo
    - navaati 9y ago
      Wow darn I'm never throwing the stone at China again, seeing this in Europe, so close to home !
  - FranOntanaya 9y ago
    In the whole area. Where I spent time people still use coal heating and you had garbage pick up once a week (and you had to tip), so even tho burning garbage in the stove is illegal you surely knew when a neighbor was doing it. Part of my coming back home culture shock was not seeing cars covered in sooth.
- gambiting 9y ago
  It is literally the worst in Europe at the moment. It's a huge issue over there.
- bluecalm 9y ago
  It's a sad state of affairs in major Polish cities. Out of the 4 major tech hubs: Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, 3-city (Gdansk/Sopot/Gdynia which form one long city) air is terrible in all with the exception of 3-city. Even there it's not so rosy (depends on the area, some are very clean, some not so much but air pollution stations are too sparse to show it). I moved out because of it and I wouldn't advise anyone to live in Poland (outside 3-city) if they have other options. It's not worth it to risk your health. The situation is terrible for many reasons but major 2 are ancient coal/junk heating (people won't upgrade to eco-friendly heating because most of them are dirty poor and their main problem is to find a cheaper coal substitute for next winter) and Germans flooding us with used diesel cars with particulate filters long not working (or removed). There is a lot of talk about CO2 but this is long term danger while used diesel cars are poisoning us right now at massive scale.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    How the Germans flood you with these diesels? Do they drop their used car right across the border or is it organized at state level? And why they take out particle filters before that?
fatfox 9y ago
Agreed. Krakow, Poznan, many cities in Poland are full of talented young people and they produce great stuff. But the current line of the Polish government will make it a less than ideal place for investment.
- oyvey 9y ago
  I prefer to make less money than to live in a multicutural paradise like in the west.
cmdkeen 9y ago
Having visited recently and met with several tech companies and western firms utilising it I'd say it is already a tech hub, and has a bright future. The sheer number of graduates being produced, and the proven ability to scale up operations there makes it really attractive. It is also a lovely city to visit, which is always worth bearing in mind when it comes to where companies might open a satellite office...
- yazr 9y ago
  Are the devs/QA english speaking or just the managers ?!
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    No we not speaking English. /s
  - zootam 9y ago
    english is typically taught in primary school to everyone
    - marak830 9y ago
      While I don't want to disagree with you about that locale, it's also taught here in Japan, and the English level is abhorebt. (Source: part time English teacher in Japan in my free time, taught every level from kindergarten to senior highschool). My point being, teaching from an early age, while is an advantage, does not necessarily mean a good comprehension or ability to speak.
      - Tharkun 9y ago
        I had a chat with a bunch of Japanese university students last month. They told me the same thing. They told me their English classes weren't too bad when it came to grammar, but they hardly ever practiced speaking the language. I can't even imagine learning a language without speaking it! Edit: sausage fingers
  - 9y ago
badpun 9y ago
I'd say they're much less radical than Trump. Does Trump make America a bad place for tech? I don't think he has impacted the SV ecosystem much for example.
- m_ke 9y ago
  https://www.geekwire.com/2018/fewer-international-grad-students-seeking-computer-science-degrees-u-s-first-time-years/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/fewer-international-grad-stude...
  - adventured 9y ago
    The figures in the article, representing the drop, are 27% above 2012 levels. For science & engineering the student numbers are 46% higher than 2012. So much for that premise. The decline shown is between 2016 and 2017. Trump wasn't President. Any decisions to attend in the US would have been considered well before it was even clear he would have a serious chance of winning. There are two likely reasons for that dip. First, the cost of university education in the US is quite high. Second and in tandem with the first issue, countries like China that formerly would have sent a lot of students to the US, increasingly have the education systems and infrastructure - along with the post education opportunities - in place to retain their own talent pools.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > The decline shown is between 2016 and 2017. Trump wasn't President. Trump was, in fact, President well before the 16 April — 15 November period covered for the 2017 data. > Any decisions to attend in the US would have been considered well before it was even clear he would have a serious chance of winning. But would have had ample time to be reconsidered after he won, and even after the initial implementation of the travel ban. > There are two likely reasons for that dip. First, the cost of university education in the US is quite high That was true I've the 2012–2016 period of increase, too, it didn't change between 2016 and 2017. > Second and in tandem with the first issue, countries like China that formerly would have sent a lot of students to the US, increasingly have the education systems and infrastructure - along with the post education opportunities - in place to retain their own talent pools. That also didn't dramatically change between 2016 and 2017. What did dramatically change between 2016 and 2017 was the visible attitude of the U.S. public and government to foreigners.
nukeop 9y ago
Krakow thrives under the so-called "authoritarian" (actually very mundane and liberal) government. The conditions for the growth of the tech sector are there, and most people working in it agree that they are better off than they were a couple of years ago and it's still getting progressively better.
pjf 9y ago
Re: Polish government, I wouldn't trust the news hype on "authoritarianism" at all - IMHO, these "news" are largely just some powerful people doing dirty politics
- Freak_NL 9y ago
  It is a sentiment shared by the EU though. The Polish government's approach to dismantling the trias politica is worrying, to say the least: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/polish-mps-pass-supreme-court-bill-criticised-as-grave-threat https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/polish-mps-pas...
- m_fayer 9y ago
  As someone descended partially from Jews from that area, calling the attempted rewriting of some very personal and painful history "hype" strikes me as malicious and insulting.
expertentipp 9y ago
> Polish government's shift toward authoritarianism makes that less likely. In case of Krakow I would rather worry about the awful air pollution. What you hear about Polish politics is a political war resulting with plenty of nonsense media content produced.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

kozikow 9y ago

Our startup is split between Silicon Valley and Poland. I would say the biggest problem with the current government are taxes. Desperate to fund the socialist policy of "500+", the government changes the "interpretation" of the current tax code. Suddenly programmers are taxed at a higher rate: e.g. https://www.wykop.pl/link/4196755/informatycy-nie-moga-byc-pewni-pit-ow-za-ubiegle-lata/ https://www.wykop.pl/link/4196755/informatycy-nie-moga-byc-p... . Besides that, the government tries to be friendly to tech startups. Another problem is GDPR. It sounds like the life of European startups is going to get much harder. One potential upside is EU funding. Having used both VC and EU funding I am not sure if it's really worth it, even if it's equity free.

thraway180306 9y ago
Polish tax code and adjudication has been a mess for a very long time. The actual rates have not changed, interpretations do change constantly and you can't get a binding one. There is no such thing. You can officially request some advice from the ministry explaining what the dues are in your case, but what this says is not binding for the revenue service if they choose not to refrain from harassing you with their creative interpretations. Combined with lack of precedence law every issue becomes a potential court gamble (and it is a gamble) if not resolved amicably. That this is new is just hot air about the current government (despicable for other good reasons).

LaGrange 9y ago

Also the air quality is rather terrible.

kss238 9y ago
In Krakow? Has it changed a lot in the past years? I was there in 2014 and the air was great.
- kornakiewicz 9y ago
  Were you in summer? The problem with air pollution is rather seasonal and while in warmer months it's not an issue, winters are terrible. Source: I lived in Kraków for 4 years.
  - kss238 9y ago
    Yeah I was, so that was probably it.
- eafkuor 9y ago
  It's so bad that Dynatrace, who is hiring in Gdańsk (another Polish city), is trying to convince devs from Kraków to move there with this: http://zmiensrodowisko.pl/ http://zmiensrodowisko.pl/
- Guest9812398 9y ago
  I spent some time in Krakow and it has horrible air quality. Summer feels normal like any other city, but certain times during the winter it's difficult to see due to the smog. See the below video for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nxugvTmJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nxugvTmJo
  - navaati 9y ago
    Wow darn I'm never throwing the stone at China again, seeing this in Europe, so close to home !
- FranOntanaya 9y ago
  In the whole area. Where I spent time people still use coal heating and you had garbage pick up once a week (and you had to tip), so even tho burning garbage in the stove is illegal you surely knew when a neighbor was doing it. Part of my coming back home culture shock was not seeing cars covered in sooth.
gambiting 9y ago
It is literally the worst in Europe at the moment. It's a huge issue over there.
bluecalm 9y ago
It's a sad state of affairs in major Polish cities. Out of the 4 major tech hubs: Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, 3-city (Gdansk/Sopot/Gdynia which form one long city) air is terrible in all with the exception of 3-city. Even there it's not so rosy (depends on the area, some are very clean, some not so much but air pollution stations are too sparse to show it). I moved out because of it and I wouldn't advise anyone to live in Poland (outside 3-city) if they have other options. It's not worth it to risk your health. The situation is terrible for many reasons but major 2 are ancient coal/junk heating (people won't upgrade to eco-friendly heating because most of them are dirty poor and their main problem is to find a cheaper coal substitute for next winter) and Germans flooding us with used diesel cars with particulate filters long not working (or removed). There is a lot of talk about CO2 but this is long term danger while used diesel cars are poisoning us right now at massive scale.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  How the Germans flood you with these diesels? Do they drop their used car right across the border or is it organized at state level? And why they take out particle filters before that?

fatfox 9y ago

Agreed. Krakow, Poznan, many cities in Poland are full of talented young people and they produce great stuff. But the current line of the Polish government will make it a less than ideal place for investment.

oyvey 9y ago
I prefer to make less money than to live in a multicutural paradise like in the west.

cmdkeen 9y ago

Having visited recently and met with several tech companies and western firms utilising it I'd say it is already a tech hub, and has a bright future. The sheer number of graduates being produced, and the proven ability to scale up operations there makes it really attractive. It is also a lovely city to visit, which is always worth bearing in mind when it comes to where companies might open a satellite office...

yazr 9y ago
Are the devs/QA english speaking or just the managers ?!
- expertentipp 9y ago
  No we not speaking English. /s
- zootam 9y ago
  english is typically taught in primary school to everyone
  - marak830 9y ago
    While I don't want to disagree with you about that locale, it's also taught here in Japan, and the English level is abhorebt. (Source: part time English teacher in Japan in my free time, taught every level from kindergarten to senior highschool). My point being, teaching from an early age, while is an advantage, does not necessarily mean a good comprehension or ability to speak.
    - Tharkun 9y ago
      I had a chat with a bunch of Japanese university students last month. They told me the same thing. They told me their English classes weren't too bad when it came to grammar, but they hardly ever practiced speaking the language. I can't even imagine learning a language without speaking it! Edit: sausage fingers
- 9y ago

badpun 9y ago

I'd say they're much less radical than Trump. Does Trump make America a bad place for tech? I don't think he has impacted the SV ecosystem much for example.

m_ke 9y ago
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/fewer-international-grad-students-seeking-computer-science-degrees-u-s-first-time-years/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/fewer-international-grad-stude...
- adventured 9y ago
  The figures in the article, representing the drop, are 27% above 2012 levels. For science & engineering the student numbers are 46% higher than 2012. So much for that premise. The decline shown is between 2016 and 2017. Trump wasn't President. Any decisions to attend in the US would have been considered well before it was even clear he would have a serious chance of winning. There are two likely reasons for that dip. First, the cost of university education in the US is quite high. Second and in tandem with the first issue, countries like China that formerly would have sent a lot of students to the US, increasingly have the education systems and infrastructure - along with the post education opportunities - in place to retain their own talent pools.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > The decline shown is between 2016 and 2017. Trump wasn't President. Trump was, in fact, President well before the 16 April — 15 November period covered for the 2017 data. > Any decisions to attend in the US would have been considered well before it was even clear he would have a serious chance of winning. But would have had ample time to be reconsidered after he won, and even after the initial implementation of the travel ban. > There are two likely reasons for that dip. First, the cost of university education in the US is quite high That was true I've the 2012–2016 period of increase, too, it didn't change between 2016 and 2017. > Second and in tandem with the first issue, countries like China that formerly would have sent a lot of students to the US, increasingly have the education systems and infrastructure - along with the post education opportunities - in place to retain their own talent pools. That also didn't dramatically change between 2016 and 2017. What did dramatically change between 2016 and 2017 was the visible attitude of the U.S. public and government to foreigners.

nukeop 9y ago

Krakow thrives under the so-called "authoritarian" (actually very mundane and liberal) government. The conditions for the growth of the tech sector are there, and most people working in it agree that they are better off than they were a couple of years ago and it's still getting progressively better.

pjf 9y ago

Re: Polish government, I wouldn't trust the news hype on "authoritarianism" at all - IMHO, these "news" are largely just some powerful people doing dirty politics

Freak_NL 9y ago
It is a sentiment shared by the EU though. The Polish government's approach to dismantling the trias politica is worrying, to say the least: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/polish-mps-pass-supreme-court-bill-criticised-as-grave-threat https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/polish-mps-pas...
m_fayer 9y ago
As someone descended partially from Jews from that area, calling the attempted rewriting of some very personal and painful history "hype" strikes me as malicious and insulting.

expertentipp 9y ago

> Polish government's shift toward authoritarianism makes that less likely. In case of Krakow I would rather worry about the awful air pollution. What you hear about Polish politics is a political war resulting with plenty of nonsense media content produced.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]