6 ms·

> The elephant in the room is rather "why does Amazon not sell Chromecasts?" > it's an illegitimate business practice when you are in the business of selling p

by geocar 9y ago

> The elephant in the room is rather "why does Amazon not sell Chromecasts?" > it's an illegitimate business practice when you are in the business of selling pretty much everything else. Google is a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in search to move directly into consumer goods. Amazon is also a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in shopping logistics to move directly into consumer goods. This is tit for tat. https://www.recode.net/2017/10/12/16464132/google-target-retailers-amazon-walmart-assistant-alexa-home-echo-augmented-reality https://www.recode.net/2017/10/12/16464132/google-target-ret... https://www.pcworld.com/article/2975731/software-games/youtube-gaming-launches-today-to-challenge-twitchs-livestreaming-dominance.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2975731/software-games/youtu... https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/26/16371292/google-youtube-amazon-echo-show https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/26/16371292/google-youtube-a... These companies are moving into the same market, and if they don't fight as hard as possible, they're letting their shareholders down. I don't know if it's illegal and the DOJ is asleep at the wheel, but Google isn't going to stop: They're not content with selling people's personal data and even that they're losing to ad blockers. They're getting desperate. Amazon isn't going to stop either, fuelling consumerism is their bread and butter, so they need to be in the middle of every shopping transaction. No market is out of bounds, but they're really struggling with media and product. These were big investments and Amazon is simply not very good at either, so they too are desperate. We consumers are surely the collateral damage in the meantime, but besides "voting with our wallet", what else could we do? Regulation would be likely required to even allow Google and Amazon to cooperate without violating their obligations their shareholders, but what shape would that take?

jklinger410 9y ago
Google have not even BEGUN to start selling your personal data.
logicallee 9y ago
>Google is a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in search to move directly into consumer goods. Exactly. Why does anyone even know what a Chromecast is? If you search for "airplay" the first three pages of Google results are how and why you should buy a Chromecast. In fact, if you've ever said "OK Google" in your life, then Google has put on a calendar item into your Calendar saying "Buy a Chromecast." When that calendar item pops up, what does Google do? Order one off of Amazon for you? No: Google actually has an illegal WalMart / AliBaba / Amazon competitor used ONLY by its voice assistant to get you stuff. This monopoly is so deeply embedded it is affecting parts of your life you didn't even know you had. For those of you with sheds in your backyard and an android phone, go out there and check now: notice how it now has a fully functioning toilet with a sewer connection, paid for through your Google play store account. Google doesn't even bother to ask you, for the municipal sewer connections you actually agreed to it when you accepted the license agreement for installing Chrome. It really does have tentacles everywhere. /sssssss come on.
- exikyut 9y ago
  > No: Google actually has an illegal WalMart / AliBaba / Amazon competitor used ONLY by its voice assistant to get you stuff. Could you possibly explain this a little further?? This is very interesting!
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    I'm quite sure he was being sarcastic
    - logicallee 9y ago
      Yes, I thought I made this clear through the seven /sssssss's I included for those playing along. Guess not! I'll spell it out. If you have a shed in your backyard, no, Google didn't install a toilet in it for you while charging your Google play account.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Google Express. A while ago they dropped all integration of Google’s voice assistant with other ways of maintaining a shopping list, and instead it adds those now to Google express, even if that’s not available in your country.
    - kcmp 9y ago
      He was being sarcastic. Google Express is actually a partnership with many retailers. Kind of like an amazon for retailers
  - logicallee 9y ago
    Sarcastic
- buddapalm 9y ago
  I just searched for airplay and only got results for Apple's tech. /snifftest
INTPenis 9y ago
Then how come they sell pixel phones? Edit: I did some googling and it appears that amazon pulled both Apple TV and Chromecast because they didn't offer Amazon Prime. Which is clearly abuse of their position in the market to me but I'm just a layperson. Then int 2017 they were slated to come back but now in 2018 I can't find chromecasts anymore. Only peripherals for it and clones. Edit: Lol I just noticed they're selling the "fire tv stick" instead. What a stupid name.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  How is FireTV stupid, well more stupid than any product name? Amazon have a media receiver line called Fire, FireTV fits the brand and tells you what it does, same as Chromecast -- same format.
  - Something1234 9y ago
    Fire TV is garbage. The only reason to buy one is to flash something else on to it. It doesn't support casting and good luck finding something good to watch.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Well I use it and have found we watch Netflix in preference to terrestrial UK TV to the point we watch so little BBC now we might go back to streaming only and forgo the license fee. A chacun son gout.
  - INTPenis 9y ago
    I got a bad impression from the product on amazon. The shape was square compared to round, the name sounded too much like fire stick and wasn't easy on the tongue. I know now that it's based on Fire (and they have another product called Kindle) but when I just saw the product image say "fire tv stick" with a square USB device in the background I was not impressed.
- foepys 9y ago
  > it appears that amazon pulled both Apple TV and Chromecast because they didn't offer Amazon Prime. Amazon pulled Prime Video off of Chromecast themselves to sell the Fire TV (stick). Google did not remove Amazon's apps.
NicoJuicy 9y ago
Amazon was first to pull Google products. History here: https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/03/02/amazon-still-isnt-selling-chromecast-nearly-three-months-initial-announcement/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/03/02/amazon-still-isnt-s...
- jhall1468 9y ago
  The issue started long before that, with the Fire phone vs Android.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - NicoJuicy 9y ago
    I think, taking everything and not releasing as open source ( only after a lot of negative feedback) did hurt some toes. But that's normal, still, amazon tried a one-up on a shitty way.
zanny 9y ago
I think distinguishing consumer and producer monopolies might be valuable here. Google and Amazon can only be monopolistic and predatory towards producers on their platforms - the sites they rank in search, the ads they sell, the videos uploaded, the sellers of things. Because they have all the audience, anyone trying to get views online, buy ads, upload videos, sell things etc are throwing out a huge majority of the market by not using these two. There can definitely be a case against them there. But those are just because they made products consumers want to use. There is no opportunity cost to switching search engine or store website. It takes a line of text to move to duckduckgo, bing, startpage, etc from Google. It takes a moment to move over to walmart, target, ebay, overstock, newegg, etc from Amazon. Neither can be overtly predatory towards the consumers of their platforms because they have no way to lock them in without taking over the whole Internet (and yeah, Google is trying that with AMP, but I doubt they will ever have enough of the Internet under their control to start restricting / banning non-AMP sites in Chrome - if they ever did that its the most blatant monopoly abuse case since Comcast). Speaking of Comcast, they are the other side of the coin. Comcast has sheer market dominance, uses their size to buy out and kill competition and bribe politicians, and leaves their "customers" with no alternatives while they abuse them. For about 95% of Comcasts market base your options are Comcast or move somewhere without Comcast. That is a blatant, consumer harming monopoly. Online, Facebook is damn close to that. You cannot easily switch to Facebook competitors because social networking is defined by network effects - Facebook is infrastructure as much as search is, but one requires the people you want to be on it while the other just needs to index the sites you want to find. Anyone can index websites, only Facebook can have everyone in your extended family on it. And Facebook surely uses its monopoly position to exploit and abuse its consumers. I just like making the distinction between the two. Both are dangerous, but for most of us the threat of Google and Amazon isn't direct, its to the businesses and services we want to use that we access through them. But it remains our choice to give Google and Amazon that power, choices you don't have with Comcast or even Facebook. As long as I can have a voice in the efficacy of their monopolies I simply feel less threatened by them.
brazzledazzle 9y ago
Does Google actually sell our personal data? I know they use it to advertise more effectively but I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure I've ever seen evidence of it. I'm sure they have a treasure trove of data and use it liberally but selling it is something else entirely.
Dylan16807 9y ago
> Google is a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in search to move directly into consumer goods. How is their search dominance coming into play here? I see leverage of youtube, and leverage of android. Plus plain-old mass media advertising campaigns. Not search.

by geocar 9y ago

jklinger410 9y ago

Google have not even BEGUN to start selling your personal data.

logicallee 9y ago

>Google is a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in search to move directly into consumer goods. Exactly. Why does anyone even know what a Chromecast is? If you search for "airplay" the first three pages of Google results are how and why you should buy a Chromecast. In fact, if you've ever said "OK Google" in your life, then Google has put on a calendar item into your Calendar saying "Buy a Chromecast." When that calendar item pops up, what does Google do? Order one off of Amazon for you? No: Google actually has an illegal WalMart / AliBaba / Amazon competitor used ONLY by its voice assistant to get you stuff. This monopoly is so deeply embedded it is affecting parts of your life you didn't even know you had. For those of you with sheds in your backyard and an android phone, go out there and check now: notice how it now has a fully functioning toilet with a sewer connection, paid for through your Google play store account. Google doesn't even bother to ask you, for the municipal sewer connections you actually agreed to it when you accepted the license agreement for installing Chrome. It really does have tentacles everywhere. /sssssss come on.

exikyut 9y ago
> No: Google actually has an illegal WalMart / AliBaba / Amazon competitor used ONLY by its voice assistant to get you stuff. Could you possibly explain this a little further?? This is very interesting!
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  I'm quite sure he was being sarcastic
  - logicallee 9y ago
    Yes, I thought I made this clear through the seven /sssssss's I included for those playing along. Guess not! I'll spell it out. If you have a shed in your backyard, no, Google didn't install a toilet in it for you while charging your Google play account.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Google Express. A while ago they dropped all integration of Google’s voice assistant with other ways of maintaining a shopping list, and instead it adds those now to Google express, even if that’s not available in your country.
  - kcmp 9y ago
    He was being sarcastic. Google Express is actually a partnership with many retailers. Kind of like an amazon for retailers
- logicallee 9y ago
  Sarcastic
buddapalm 9y ago
I just searched for airplay and only got results for Apple's tech. /snifftest

INTPenis 9y ago

Then how come they sell pixel phones? Edit: I did some googling and it appears that amazon pulled both Apple TV and Chromecast because they didn't offer Amazon Prime. Which is clearly abuse of their position in the market to me but I'm just a layperson. Then int 2017 they were slated to come back but now in 2018 I can't find chromecasts anymore. Only peripherals for it and clones. Edit: Lol I just noticed they're selling the "fire tv stick" instead. What a stupid name.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
How is FireTV stupid, well more stupid than any product name? Amazon have a media receiver line called Fire, FireTV fits the brand and tells you what it does, same as Chromecast -- same format.
- Something1234 9y ago
  Fire TV is garbage. The only reason to buy one is to flash something else on to it. It doesn't support casting and good luck finding something good to watch.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Well I use it and have found we watch Netflix in preference to terrestrial UK TV to the point we watch so little BBC now we might go back to streaming only and forgo the license fee. A chacun son gout.
- INTPenis 9y ago
  I got a bad impression from the product on amazon. The shape was square compared to round, the name sounded too much like fire stick and wasn't easy on the tongue. I know now that it's based on Fire (and they have another product called Kindle) but when I just saw the product image say "fire tv stick" with a square USB device in the background I was not impressed.
foepys 9y ago
> it appears that amazon pulled both Apple TV and Chromecast because they didn't offer Amazon Prime. Amazon pulled Prime Video off of Chromecast themselves to sell the Fire TV (stick). Google did not remove Amazon's apps.

NicoJuicy 9y ago

Amazon was first to pull Google products. History here: https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/03/02/amazon-still-isnt-selling-chromecast-nearly-three-months-initial-announcement/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/03/02/amazon-still-isnt-s...

jhall1468 9y ago
The issue started long before that, with the Fire phone vs Android.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- NicoJuicy 9y ago
  I think, taking everything and not releasing as open source ( only after a lot of negative feedback) did hurt some toes. But that's normal, still, amazon tried a one-up on a shitty way.

zanny 9y ago

I think distinguishing consumer and producer monopolies might be valuable here. Google and Amazon can only be monopolistic and predatory towards producers on their platforms - the sites they rank in search, the ads they sell, the videos uploaded, the sellers of things. Because they have all the audience, anyone trying to get views online, buy ads, upload videos, sell things etc are throwing out a huge majority of the market by not using these two. There can definitely be a case against them there. But those are just because they made products consumers want to use. There is no opportunity cost to switching search engine or store website. It takes a line of text to move to duckduckgo, bing, startpage, etc from Google. It takes a moment to move over to walmart, target, ebay, overstock, newegg, etc from Amazon. Neither can be overtly predatory towards the consumers of their platforms because they have no way to lock them in without taking over the whole Internet (and yeah, Google is trying that with AMP, but I doubt they will ever have enough of the Internet under their control to start restricting / banning non-AMP sites in Chrome - if they ever did that its the most blatant monopoly abuse case since Comcast). Speaking of Comcast, they are the other side of the coin. Comcast has sheer market dominance, uses their size to buy out and kill competition and bribe politicians, and leaves their "customers" with no alternatives while they abuse them. For about 95% of Comcasts market base your options are Comcast or move somewhere without Comcast. That is a blatant, consumer harming monopoly. Online, Facebook is damn close to that. You cannot easily switch to Facebook competitors because social networking is defined by network effects - Facebook is infrastructure as much as search is, but one requires the people you want to be on it while the other just needs to index the sites you want to find. Anyone can index websites, only Facebook can have everyone in your extended family on it. And Facebook surely uses its monopoly position to exploit and abuse its consumers. I just like making the distinction between the two. Both are dangerous, but for most of us the threat of Google and Amazon isn't direct, its to the businesses and services we want to use that we access through them. But it remains our choice to give Google and Amazon that power, choices you don't have with Comcast or even Facebook. As long as I can have a voice in the efficacy of their monopolies I simply feel less threatened by them.

brazzledazzle 9y ago

Does Google actually sell our personal data? I know they use it to advertise more effectively but I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure I've ever seen evidence of it. I'm sure they have a treasure trove of data and use it liberally but selling it is something else entirely.

Dylan16807 9y ago

> Google is a predatory monopoly that is leveraging their existing power in search to move directly into consumer goods. How is their search dominance coming into play here? I see leverage of youtube, and leverage of android. Plus plain-old mass media advertising campaigns. Not search.