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Review: Tesla Model 3 lives up to hype
- paulcole 9y agoHoly cow, I didn't realize they were missing production by so much. Estimated 20k in December and ended up being just 1,500. May as well have said they'd make a million of them lol.
- ythn 9y agoEveryone knew it. Toyota, arguably the world champions of car production, scoffed at Musk's production optimism.
- kjksf 9y ago"missing" is relative. The original official (from Tesla/Musk) estimate for mass production (5k / week) of Tesla 3 was 2020. In 2014 they moved that back by 2 years to early 2018. In late 2017 they moved that forward by 6 months, to mid 2018. So depending on which official estimate you're looking at, they are either 6 months late or 1.5 years ahead.
- fmihaila 9y ago> The original official (from Tesla/Musk) estimate for mass production (5k / week) of Tesla 3 was 2020. In 2014 they moved that back by 2 years to early 2018. In late 2017 they moved that forward by 6 months, to mid 2018. A friendly correction: funnily enough, the terms 'moving/pushing back' and ' moving/bringing forward' in time work in the opposite way to how non-native English speakers (such as myself) tend to understand and use them. The mental image I use to remember it has the event looking at me from the future, so bringing it 'forward' moves it closer to where I stand, in the present.
- mtgx 9y agoThey probably won't reach 5,000 a week until in the second half of the year. They're at 1,000 a week right now. Still, at least the car seems great. Being a year behind in production is not going to matter that much in the long-term, even if say 50,000 people cancel their orders. They'll probably keep the pipeline full for the next 3-4 years, while still steadily increasing production. I'm sure larger carmakers have had such delays for at least some of their car models, too.
- gowld 9y agoA year in a production means by the time they are shipping cars, competitors are 1 year better. Nissan has increased range on the LEAF from 2012 84mi to 2018 151mi, and targeting 2018 225mi
- ProAm 9y agoI thought everyone knew the general consensus with Musk's time frames were to always add 3 years to the promise? It's not bad but I can't remember an time estimate they have reached successfully with any of the companies?
- mozumder 9y agoNeed comparison to GM Bolt EV, probably it's most direct competitor. My bro just got one of those, and it seems to live up to the hype as well.
- jbuild 9y agoI’m curious if the average Model 3 buyer is the same as the average electric car buyer. The Model 3 isn’t just an electric car the same way a GM Bolt EV is, the Tesla has all the self-driving features that are still relatively unmatched by other offerings in the market. The Autonomous Bolt EV doesn’t go into production until next year.
- wffurr 9y agoSome argue that GM's "Super Cruise" is a better level 2 system than the Tesla systems: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/04/cadillac-super-cruises-to-the-front-with-the-most-advanced-semi-autonomous-car-on-the-market/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/04/cadillac-super-cruises-... Not yet available in the Bolt, but maybe in the next model year.
- telchar 9y agoI would consider another EV - for me that's the main I'm looking for in my next car. The reason I'm waiting for a model 3 rather than already driving a Bolt or Leaf is largely a matter of battery longevity. I want to have some assurance that the battery will not need replacing in the first 5-10 years. Tesla so far seems to be the best in that regard with their large packs and active pack management. The beauty and performance of the car are a nice plus, but even with that I'm not certain I'll wind up with a 3.
- elago 9y agoWhat data have you found regarding superiority of the Tesla Model 3 battery pack vs the Bolt. From my research, the Leaf is far behind, but the Bolt and Model 3 seem very similar almost to the point where I'd guess driving style and heater usage would make up the difference.
- ckastner 9y agoWas the product hype ever a "hype"? I thought it was the production hype that had investors worried.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- matte_black 9y agoShould I cancel my Model 3 reservation and get my $1000 back? Or could I sell it off to someone who now wants a Tesla Model 3 faster?
- dawnerd 9y agoWhat position are you?
- kjksf 9y agoTesla doesn't allow that without written consent (https://teslanomics.co/can-i-sell-my-model-3-reservation/ https://teslanomics.co/can-i-sell-my-model-3-reservation/). That being said, you can try buying the car and re-selling it immediately. Whether someone would take you up on that offer is another question.
- mrep 9y agoYeah, I was planning on doing that since my brother works for tesla and can skip to the head of the line but then I found out you would have to pay double sales tax on that (1 for the original sale and 1 for the resale). Also, you are technically now allowed to claim the federal tax rebate if you buy the car with the intention of selling (hard to prove but not worth the risk).
- rorosaurus 9y agoAdditionally, in the agreement you sign when you take delivery, I believe there is a clause requiring you to not resell for a profit.
- matte_black 9y agoWow you can’t resell the car for profit? Absurd.
- dawnerd 9y agoGood luck enforcing that. Sell the car at cost and sell a token item for the remainder...
- peg_leg 9y ago"Unless you’ve been living on Mars, you know the Model 3’s production launch has been a pickle " And if you're living on Mars...your Roadster is on its way
- russellbeattie 9y agoThat launch had some issues as well... You'll have to head over to the asteroid belt to pick it up.
- dmart 9y agoHaving to look down at a center-mounted console to see your current speed seems dangerous. Really, the whole "remove all tactile console controls and slap in an iPad" thing seems lazy and tacky.
- jacquesm 9y agoThat's the same in every Mini.
- nathanstitt 9y agoNot quite. The large round speedometer in the center on the mini is only to honor the old mini look. They also have a fairly large digital speedometer on the top of the steering column.
- 762236 9y agoiPad Pro
- spike021 9y agoWhile I completely agree, your statement made me consider that altogether it's not much different from looking down at a normal car's speedometer already.
- bryanlarsen 9y agoTo be pedantic, the Model 3's speedometer is considerably higher than the speedometer of most cars. You have to look right, not down.
- vvanders 9y agoYup, to go even further the Saturn Ion had almost the exact same placement ~10 years ago.
- mey 9y agoRemember car shopping and hating those center console displays. I like Mazda's HUD system (think some luxury cars have had such solutions for awhile) which allows you not even change the focus of your eyes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZdisJihI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZdisJihI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr02z6tgss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr02z6tgss
- mandeepj 9y agoTesla now has a ton of experience. Can someone please help me understand why Model 3 production has been so challenging? I get this part that it requires a new production line and have its own part list. Is that the challenge? Btw, detroitnews.com is a navigation nightmare - popup after popup, auto play ads
- jacquesm 9y ago> I get this part that it requires a new production line and have its own part list. Is that the challenge? Yes. Making cars is hard. Making them with a low defect rate is harder still. Making a completely new car on a completely new line is super hard, especially if the cars have to be relatively cheap.
- yorby 9y agoHopefully the Model 3 has a lower defect rate then previous Teslas
- kjksf 9y agoAccording to https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/26/can-tesla-learn-chevy-bolt-production-ramp/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/26/can-tesla-learn-chevy-b..., Tesla managed to build Tesla 3 faster and in greater volume that GM managed to build Chevy Bolt. Is that accurate? I don't know but I'm pretty sure manufacturing a completely new car in volume is challenging for any car company, including those that are 100 years old, have tons of money, existing factories and lots of employees.
- mikeash 9y agoIt’s true but a bit pointless. GM isn’t building a lot of Bolts because there aren’t that many buyers for them. If demand suddenly spiked to a million cars a year, they could probably ramp up to meet that demand fairly quickly. Tesla is ramping up pretty quickly too, though. I think the main difference is that Tesla is being watched by everybody and they’re getting production cars out early. When GM takes some time to ramp up production, people mostly don’t notice or don’t care. For one example I was personally interested in, the plug-in hybrid version of Mitsubishi’s Outlander has had its US release delayed five years due to production constraints. I think it might finally be available, judging from their web site. I really wanted one back when it was supposed to come out in 2013, but in the intervening half decade I bout a Tesla, reserved another one, and no longer want to buy something that burns any gas.
- SubiculumCode 9y agoIf the Tesla model 3 was really shipping with an advanced UI, it would feature real tactile dumb buttons. Instead, it removes utility for 'clean' lines. I appreciate the approach (e.g. it worked for Apple), but soft buttons are a bane, IMO.
- jamiegreen 9y agoPerhaps each to their own, but I find the maze of meaningless buttons on most steering wheels to be far worse
- derekp7 9y agoI'd like to see some real-world reports on how useable having most of the controls in the screen are. My first concern is being able to accurately interact with it while the car is moving -- personally my arm would be bouncing all over the place from car motion when the arm is extended that far. As a point of reference, my Ford has their new Sync 3 system, and I often need to steady my hand by resting the thumb just past the edge of the screen. Many controls are available on my car as physical knobs, levers, and buttons, in addition to the screen, but some things like setting dual-zone climate control or manually moving the vent between floor and dash are screen only. And I typically can only mess with that at a stop light. Now the counter-arguments on the Tesla would include that their self-driving capabilities decrease the risk of looking at the screen for a few seconds, and the screen placement probably helps too. But I'd still like to see some long-term reports as situations arise, such as when a passing truck sprays water/mud on the windshield and you need to quickly increase the speed of the wipers to high and put the windshield wash on. Or a rapidly changing climate condition causes the windshield to suddenly fog over (doesn't happen that often, but it has for me periodically), and you need to take a glove off to get the screen to work. My other gripe is that the screen isn't molded into the dash, but on a stem sticking out -- it doesn't really look like it is part of the car. And looking at the pictures, the only thing I can think of is that this was a cost cut, as it is probably expensive designing and manufacturing all the normal dash controls. But then again, I could be wrong, but if not, I really hope the rest of the industry doesn't follow. And I hope that this isn't a trend for Tesla, and future models will have more driver friendly controls.
- mikecleach 9y agoI suspect the rest of the industry won't follow because we have many decades worth of research into why tactile buttons and knobs are a good thing while piloting vehicles. This just reeks of Musk overriding his designers in service of a pure vision, and frankly it's reckless and I plan to give Teslas I see on the road a wide berth so they don't murder me while trying to change the airflow via touchscreens with zero feedback.
- derekp7 9y agoFrom a "visual" statement, at least from the pictures, something about that dash (at least to me, others may differ) screams out "cheap" and "cost cut". I'd really like to know if this was the case (cost cut), or if it really was a design choice.
- tammer 9y agoAll these comments about hardware buttons will in a few years inspire the same chuckles reading comments about how hardware keyboards are absolutely essential for cellphones from 2007.
- xyzzyz 9y agoSomehow almost all phone manufacturers in 2018 still include hardware buttons in their phones, precisely when the UX of a hardware button is better.
- voodooranger 9y agoThe Model 3 also has some hardware buttons.
- nostromo 9y agoI'm now imagining trying to drive a car with a touch screen steering wheel and touch screen pedals.
- ken 9y agoSaab once made a prototype with a steer-by-wire joystick. All the reviews I've read were that it wasn't so great -- and clearly, they must have agreed, since they never put it into production.
- IronWolve 9y agoI still hate giving up my screen to onscreen keyboard and would love a clamshell keyboard for my android phone... They also said SD card are going away, that hasnt worked out so well. Neither has the headphone jack for audiophiles.
- mrep 9y agoI'd argue the headphone jack is staying around because most people including myself don't want to be forced to use bluetooth ones which are more expensive and require recharging.
- nilkn 9y agoFor anyone interested, Doug DeMuro's video on the Model 3 is probably the most informative I've seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6VqldjTT8
- AlimJaffer 9y agoOne of my favourite reviewers. He can be a bit hokey at times, but he truly understands and appreciates cars.
- kbenson 9y agoIs anyone else not enthused about the single screen for all instrumentation? I was talking to friends about it this weekend, and as someone that works in technology I have quite a bit of distrust in the idea of one screen for all your essential driving information, including fuel capacity, speed, warning indicators, etc sharing space with the entertainment and navigation system when operating something as fundamentally dangerous as an automobile (even if we often forget how dangerous it is). * I don't want to be at the whim of some designer's ideas as to whether when I switch navigation screens my fuel gauge and current speed should shrink or move to a separate area for better design flow. I want them at the same location no matter what. * I don't want the added complexity of the entire entertainment and navigation system working against the stability of the system. I don't want poor quality of some random widget crashing my only information display. * After the Jeep hacking a few years ago where there wasn't enough separation between the internet connected devices and features essential to operation of the vehicle, many commenters here were saying anything without an air-gap between the internet and CAN-bus is a security problem.[1] That may or may not be extreme, but putting everything together like this means I really want to know what steps they've taken to segregate and secure high-importance data channels in the car. I really hope the answer isn't "we have software that is responsible for firewalling access." When it comes to something like this, I really want some physical and/or hardware level separation. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9921557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9921557
- mwilliaams 9y agoTeslas get OTA updates, so I'm pretty sure they're always connected. A big downside in my opinion
- nicolashahn 9y agoIs there a way to control that? Can you run your Tesla in airplane mode?
- mwilliaams 9y agoI've no idea
- maxxxxx 9y agoThe instrumentation probably won't age well. In 10 years the screen will look like a relic from the stone age.
- mwilliaams 9y agoI just want to add that the car doesn't totally lack hardware controls. There are some buttons and up/down sticks on the steering wheel.
- dmode 9y agoI don't understand everyone's complaints about Model 3 missing tactile buttons. I went from BMW (which had buttons everywhere) to Model S. I have had the S for 2 years and have never missed any tactile button. Nor have I met any Model S owner who has said "I missed those buttons". Tesla allows for an overnight test drive. Try the S. You will not miss any buttons.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> Nor have I met any Model S owner who has said "I missed those buttons". Tesla allows for an overnight test drive. The second sentence helps explain the first: people who would miss the buttons don't become Model S owners.
- dmode 9y agoI don't think it explains anything. A car purchase decision is based on a number of different factors. Availability of buttons is certainly one of them, and it is reasonable to believe that many Tesla owners have bought their vehicles despite lack of physical buttons as a compromise. For example, in the Model X forum, you would see a lot of X owners buying the car despite and Falcon Wing Doors and complaining about it later. This doesn't happen at all about the lack of physical buttons.
- giarc 9y agoAlthough not professionally taken, those interior shots make it look terrible inside. The back seat looks like it might before a base model Dodge Dart or something. The dash looks like it is a vehicle driven by Robocop.
- t0mbstone 9y agoI'm sorry, but the big flatscreen in the middle of the dash is just moronic. I don't want to have to take my eyes off of the road to see my speed. Humans like controlling things via touch. Ironically, since touch screens are smooth, there is zero tactile feedback. It's impossible to use it without looking at it, and if the driver is looking at the screen, they aren't looking at the road. This is especially true because of the touch screen's position relative to the driver. A head up display projection directly on the windshield, directly in front of the driver (with control buttons on the steering wheel) should be the bare minimum for any modern car.
- lafar6502 9y agoiPhone of the cars? Does it mean you will have to deal with some stupid or inferior solutions forever because Apple thinks it’s so perfect that nothing can be fixed?
- RickJWag 9y agoI wish they'd make one with less premium content and minimal weight, priced and competitive with something like a GTI or Civic Si. I'd also like a Civic Type R, but the wait-list on those is just as silly. They're making great cars, but you have to wait for them.