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I'm French, I'm not a software engineer because I don't have the degree, but I can read every language out there, I speak English pretty well, I know how to do

by jokoon 9y ago

I'm French, I'm not a software engineer because I don't have the degree, but I can read every language out there, I speak English pretty well, I know how to do proper research to fix things, and as I saw in the comments, the situation here is very weird. I have been unemployed my whole life, my medical condition might have something to do with it, but when I hear that French companies put a lot of faith in a degree I'm still disappointed. There might be some hr failure somewhere. Job markets are weird. I'm still curious about working remotely for an American company. Can it be achieved? How is that done?

hk__2 9y ago
Being a software engineer should be about what you do, not which degree you have. In the (French) company I work in, one of the lead devs doesn’t even have his baccalauréat; that doesn’t make him any less 1- talented and 2- a software engineer.
GordonS 9y ago
It's true that a lot of places rate a degree highly, and some won't look at you without one, but it's perfectly possible to get a job as a software engineer in Europe without a degree. I started as a developer 15 years ago, without a degree. I'm an architect now, and only did my degree a few years ago (did it for myself, not because it was a requirement for my job). I imagine getting a visa to work in the US without a degree is all but impossible; for work immigrants, most countries require you to have a degree, unless you have some incredible, sought after skills.
adventured 9y ago
Focus on a particularly in-demand specialty (versus being broad). Just as an example, the demand for React developers is extremely high right now. If front-end isn't your thing, the demand for Python engineers seems to have caught the industry by surprise, thanks to the AI boom. It has drained the available Python programmer supply. I'd expect that demand to continue. There are a bunch of other specialties that can pay very well, such as ecommerce platforms. Ecommerce in the US will double over the next ten years. And given the sum involved, that's a pretty massive economic opportunity, there are not anywhere near enough engineers & developers to go around for that change. If you acquire an expertise with Shopify, Magento, Bigcommerce, etc. you can do very well in the space.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
nikhizzle 9y ago
Try applying through triplebyte. Their goal is a candidate blind, pure merit application process. I used them in my last job search, and was super impressed with every step along the way. Low stress, and lots of constant feedback on how to make myself a better candidate.
- tw1010 9y ago
  Triplebyte doesn't support applicants from outside the US.
  - compumike 9y ago
    We're currently able to work with applicants from a small number of countries outside of the US: see https://triplebyte.com/candidate_faq#question-8 https://triplebyte.com/candidate_faq#question-8 for details. (I'm an engineer at Triplebyte.)
    - lotyrin 9y ago
      So far really liking everything you're doing. Is there a mailing list for when you guys expand into other metro areas or add remote opportunities? I am a little surprised I can't set my work location preferences in my profile such that it might show up on a report somewhere.
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  Thanks for the heads up! Never heard of them before. I actually just went through the quiz and it said I did "a good job". Is that actually true or is it just a morale booster? Note: I suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome since my background is not CS and I don't have much professional experience. But it's good to know that the process is well-structured!
slackuser 9y ago
Hey, i use to have the same situation 5 years ago. Sign up on all remote job sites, and not remove either. Apply for a job like a crazy, one i was doing for 5-6 interviews per day. I think in a 3-4 month you will understand what people are looking for and you will be able to take a job you like, just try no get upset after first few weeks.
aerophilic 9y ago
I think the core point to understand about the hiring process, is that it is one of the hardest, most time consuming processes that any manager has to do. Typically it means scanning tons of resumes (typically this means stacks of 100s of applicants). In the aggregate, while there are exceptions, if it “looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck”. So how does this translate to searching for candidates? Well, in general when you are scanning resumes you are looking for “proxies” for quality (remember you are devoting maybe 30 - 60 seconds to each resume initially, and even at that rate it will take you 30+ minutes to get through the resume dump you have been given that day. This doesn’t count the extra time you spend on the most promising candidates. So, what are good proxies? The best proxies are competing companies for your industry, where they are currently working at. It shows they both 1. Are able to do an equivalent job, and 2. They know the specifics of your industry. Next best proxy: A similar job that they have done at any company (preferably at a company which you have heard of, and know hires good quality). The next “goodness” proxy I use is “have they done anything I heard about, or can infer their competence from? An example is a project that I know is non trivial. The final proxy you can use of course is a degree. Since it is known quantity of “work” that was needed to successfully complete that degree. This is to say, if you don’t have a degree you need to “stand out” in some way. Show that you can “do” something valuable. Remember at the end of the day the employer has to get “value” out of you. You need to provide some multiple of what you cost for it to be “worth” hiring you. Some numbers for context: For 100k job, that usually translates to 160k all in cost for the employer (benefits, taxes, overhead, etc). Add in the risk you may not work out (if they are 90% certain, then they have to expect 177k of value just to break even). If you are less solid of a candidate, say 50% chance of working out, then the number is 320k. Either way, you need to give the expectation that you will give way more value then your cost given your risk profile. So to circle back, how do you get these jobs? Find a way to demonstrate your “value” in the context of the employers needs or find ways of reducing your “risk” profile for them hiring you. Hope this helps.
banned1 9y ago
Probably not. French labor laws are not friendly for business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_labour_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_labour_law I was in a meeting with some French folks a while back and they interrupted the meeting because they had to leave, as some "police" was asking them to go home. Businesses in America cannot deal with that [law/culture/laziness/freedom/whateveryouwanttocallit] -- edit Oh yeah, in this 21st century, there is a Right to Disconnect (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38479439 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38479439). As a business owner, I say "screw that; why bother"

by jokoon 9y ago

hk__2 9y ago

Being a software engineer should be about what you do, not which degree you have. In the (French) company I work in, one of the lead devs doesn’t even have his baccalauréat; that doesn’t make him any less 1- talented and 2- a software engineer.

GordonS 9y ago

It's true that a lot of places rate a degree highly, and some won't look at you without one, but it's perfectly possible to get a job as a software engineer in Europe without a degree. I started as a developer 15 years ago, without a degree. I'm an architect now, and only did my degree a few years ago (did it for myself, not because it was a requirement for my job). I imagine getting a visa to work in the US without a degree is all but impossible; for work immigrants, most countries require you to have a degree, unless you have some incredible, sought after skills.

adventured 9y ago

Focus on a particularly in-demand specialty (versus being broad). Just as an example, the demand for React developers is extremely high right now. If front-end isn't your thing, the demand for Python engineers seems to have caught the industry by surprise, thanks to the AI boom. It has drained the available Python programmer supply. I'd expect that demand to continue. There are a bunch of other specialties that can pay very well, such as ecommerce platforms. Ecommerce in the US will double over the next ten years. And given the sum involved, that's a pretty massive economic opportunity, there are not anywhere near enough engineers & developers to go around for that change. If you acquire an expertise with Shopify, Magento, Bigcommerce, etc. you can do very well in the space.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

nikhizzle 9y ago

Try applying through triplebyte. Their goal is a candidate blind, pure merit application process. I used them in my last job search, and was super impressed with every step along the way. Low stress, and lots of constant feedback on how to make myself a better candidate.

tw1010 9y ago
Triplebyte doesn't support applicants from outside the US.
- compumike 9y ago
  We're currently able to work with applicants from a small number of countries outside of the US: see https://triplebyte.com/candidate_faq#question-8 https://triplebyte.com/candidate_faq#question-8 for details. (I'm an engineer at Triplebyte.)
  - lotyrin 9y ago
    So far really liking everything you're doing. Is there a mailing list for when you guys expand into other metro areas or add remote opportunities? I am a little surprised I can't set my work location preferences in my profile such that it might show up on a report somewhere.
Cyph0n 9y ago
Thanks for the heads up! Never heard of them before. I actually just went through the quiz and it said I did "a good job". Is that actually true or is it just a morale booster? Note: I suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome since my background is not CS and I don't have much professional experience. But it's good to know that the process is well-structured!

slackuser 9y ago

Hey, i use to have the same situation 5 years ago. Sign up on all remote job sites, and not remove either. Apply for a job like a crazy, one i was doing for 5-6 interviews per day. I think in a 3-4 month you will understand what people are looking for and you will be able to take a job you like, just try no get upset after first few weeks.

aerophilic 9y ago

I think the core point to understand about the hiring process, is that it is one of the hardest, most time consuming processes that any manager has to do. Typically it means scanning tons of resumes (typically this means stacks of 100s of applicants). In the aggregate, while there are exceptions, if it “looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck”. So how does this translate to searching for candidates? Well, in general when you are scanning resumes you are looking for “proxies” for quality (remember you are devoting maybe 30 - 60 seconds to each resume initially, and even at that rate it will take you 30+ minutes to get through the resume dump you have been given that day. This doesn’t count the extra time you spend on the most promising candidates. So, what are good proxies? The best proxies are competing companies for your industry, where they are currently working at. It shows they both 1. Are able to do an equivalent job, and 2. They know the specifics of your industry. Next best proxy: A similar job that they have done at any company (preferably at a company which you have heard of, and know hires good quality). The next “goodness” proxy I use is “have they done anything I heard about, or can infer their competence from? An example is a project that I know is non trivial. The final proxy you can use of course is a degree. Since it is known quantity of “work” that was needed to successfully complete that degree. This is to say, if you don’t have a degree you need to “stand out” in some way. Show that you can “do” something valuable. Remember at the end of the day the employer has to get “value” out of you. You need to provide some multiple of what you cost for it to be “worth” hiring you. Some numbers for context: For 100k job, that usually translates to 160k all in cost for the employer (benefits, taxes, overhead, etc). Add in the risk you may not work out (if they are 90% certain, then they have to expect 177k of value just to break even). If you are less solid of a candidate, say 50% chance of working out, then the number is 320k. Either way, you need to give the expectation that you will give way more value then your cost given your risk profile. So to circle back, how do you get these jobs? Find a way to demonstrate your “value” in the context of the employers needs or find ways of reducing your “risk” profile for them hiring you. Hope this helps.

banned1 9y ago

Probably not. French labor laws are not friendly for business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_labour_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_labour_law I was in a meeting with some French folks a while back and they interrupted the meeting because they had to leave, as some "police" was asking them to go home. Businesses in America cannot deal with that [law/culture/laziness/freedom/whateveryouwanttocallit] -- edit Oh yeah, in this 21st century, there is a Right to Disconnect (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38479439 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38479439). As a business owner, I say "screw that; why bother"