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I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healt

I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healthy food has nonsensical high prices and if you want something at a human price you don't have much choice except fast food. What a shame.

pascalxus 9y ago
That's partly because much of the government subsides go towards subsidizing corn, ending up in high fructose corn syrup and all the junk food most people consume. It's quite sad, that everyone is so okay with this. Personally, I try to eat as healthy as possible and use my nutrient finder (https://kale.world/c https://kale.world/c) to find high nutrient, low calorie foods, which end up being mostly beans, vegetables and fruits.
- nickcoury 9y ago
  Agreed, the subsidized corn is also used as cheap feed for low quality meat. On the flip side fruits and vegetables receive the lowest subsidies. Plus the lower cost of unhealthy foods decreases demand for relatively more expensive healthy foods, lowering demand which drives prices up even higher. Tough to keep perishable foods when people don’t buy them as quickly. It’s a self reinforcing cycle to the bottom.
- artursapek 9y ago
  Did you make this kale.world? It's pretty nifty.
  - pascalxus 9y ago
    yes. Thank you.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  Wow - the rest of the thread aside, that's a fantastic nutrition tool. edit: I just fed it one of the tasks I've found most frustrating - how to optimize protein:carbs ratio without resorting to meat. Most of the diet advice I've seen on that question is unhelpful, since it emphasizes for "enough protein" and not ratio. But this turned up exactly what I was after.
hangonhn 9y ago
I was in Bologna not too long ago and I was baffled by how fresh, high quality ingredients are available at affordable prices. I've seen similar quality ingredients in the Bay Area but they charge an arm and a leg for it. I don't know how the Italians do it or why we Americans have such a hard time doing something similar.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  When we were in Italy even the freeway rest stops had excellent fresh food. Here you can't find anything even remotely edible on freeway stops.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Try switching from Whole Foods to your nearest Mexican grocer.
- neonhomer 9y ago
  I remember 10+ years ago how the food at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris was better than most food in the US. It was kind of sad.
- nsxwolf 9y ago
  Why would "fresh" and "high quality" make you lose weight?
  - hangonhn 9y ago
    That's a good question. I think it has to do with a lot of food that are not calorie dense and more likely to satiate you simply taste better fresh and not so great past a certain age. On the flip side, foods that tends to taste good for a long time also tend to be calorie dense and some studies suggest aren't likely to trigger the signals for satiation.
  - always_good 9y ago
    I can't think of too many food products that are making people fat that can be called fresh and high-quality. Fruit and vegetables come to mind.
tjr225 9y ago
I wonder if there are any subsidies paid for by taxpayers to the businesses that sell us cheap, unhealthy food. Freedom to kill ourselves and each other, it seems...
- mhb 9y ago
  Subsidies are the opposite of freedom. But other than that, good point.
nkkollaw 9y ago
Meh, veggies, rice, etc. are super-cheap everywhere in the world. It doesn't take money to eat healthy. It's not that fast food restaurants are the only choice is you don't have money. You can go to a grocery store and eat extremely healthy if you want to. Those who eat at fast food restaurants all the time are more uneducated than poor (although both things might go hand-in-hand), and might not know how many calories are in a burger or more importantly sodas (I've seen people drinking liters every day). You can buy an apple instead of a can of coke and save you both a few hundred calories and a few pennies. Nothing to do with money.
- AlphaSite 9y ago
  Veggies are not cheap here, its cheaper in the UK and even in Singapore where everything is imported than in California.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Aww, come on! How much is 1 kg of carrots or potatoes? Banana (0.25 kg) 0.63 $ Oranges (0.30 kg) 1.04 $ Tomato (0.20 kg) 0.85 $ Potato (0.20 kg) 0.60 $ Onion (0.10 kg) 0.26 $ Lettuce (0.20 head) 0.28 $ Not the best source probably, but by looking at https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Los-Angeles https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Los-Angeles it doesn't seem like one can easily go broke from buying vegetables.
    - lostcolony 9y ago
      Yeah, all of those are single serving prices that you're looking at, and only the onion (and I guess lettuce if it's not romaine) is actually a vegetable. Potatoes are starches, the others are fruits (with higher sugar). They don't list much in the way of vegetable prices. But, even given that; I can buy a head of lettuce for $1.40. Okay. Or, I could buy an 8 pack of little debbie snack cakes for the same amount. 5 servings of lettuce that has nearly no nutritional substance, and that I have to combine with something else anyway to make it palatable...or 8 servings of convenient, enjoyed food. If I wanted crunch, I can get a giant bag of tortilla chips for $1, too. Why would I buy a head of lettuce for 40% more, when it takes more work, and more ingredients inflating the price even higher?
yodsanklai 9y ago
I would add that many Americans seem totally unaware that junk food is bad for them and for their kids. Even in well-educated families, I would see kids drinking soda and eating snacks all the time. As I understand it, it is also a political issue, food corporation have huge marketing power and any attempts of regulation draw big protests (free will / nanny state arguments).
- poulsbohemian 9y ago
  My ex has a degree in biology, yet can't understand that feeding the kids box mac-and-cheese and pasta multiple times per week (because it is easy to prepare) is what's making them fat, not just the portion sizes. So yeah, what you describe is real. I'd take it one step further though - not only do most Americans not really understand the content of their food, but most can't cook. They have really no understanding of how to plan means, shop for meals, or prepare meals quickly. So then you throw in long working hours and commute times and they feel compelled to reach for food that is fundamentally unhealthy.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    I would suspect most kids learned to cook because a parent was home doing all the cooking, and when they got home from school they would be expected to assist with meal prep. With both parents working, less time to prepare meals, we are raising a generation who on average has a lot less first-hand experience with how to cook, and certainly how to cook healthy balanced meals.
    - poulsbohemian 9y ago
      Here's what's weird for me... my mom came from a traditional farm family - so she really knew how to cook. She was also a home economics teacher for many years, so she taught middle schoolers how to cook. While I remember vaguely being in the kitchen with her as a kid, I really don't remember her ever teaching me anything in particular. It certainly wasn't an every-day thing for me to help with meal prep. But, today I'm a really good cook and have done the majority of meal prep for my family (3 kids) both in and out of being in a two-adult household. I guess what I'm saying is -- I agree with you, but I also think that too many adults cop out on "I don't know how to cook!!!!" when it is actually not that hard to figure it out. Anyone can make a salad, throw some veggies in a wok, make some rice and beans, etc. The healthiest meals are in many cases the easiest to make, but somehow people think it is even easier to grab that frozen lasagna out of the freezer.
adrr 9y ago
Healthy food isn't expensive. You can buy chicken breast for $3 to $5 a pound. You can buy a head of lettuce for $2. Oatmeal is dirt cheap. Most vegetables are less than $3 a pound.
- minikites 9y ago
  Vegetables have very few calories. Look at the cost per calorie: http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-economics-of-obesity.html http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-e... Broccoli is $2.93 per 200 Calories. Doritos are 39 cents per 200 calories. That's the issue.
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    I don't think access to raw calories is the problem here, given that we're talking about people being _overweight_. Broccoli provides considerably more satiety per calorie than Doritos, to say nothing of the difference in healthfulness.
    - nsxwolf 9y ago
      You could raise the price of Doritos to be higher than broccoli and overweight people will still choose the Doritos. Source: Me
- danharaj 9y ago
  If you're buying non-frozen leafy greens that have been sitting around before getting sold a great deal of nutritional content has degraded and you can definitely taste it. Vegetables aren't subsidized the same way corn is.
- virtuowl 9y ago
  That is around 2 times what i pay in germany
  - maxerickson 9y ago
trophycase 9y ago
Honestly this is only slightly true. Beans are 2 bucks a pound, cabbage is 2 bucks a head, bananas are 50 cents a pound, chicken is 4 bucks a pound, lentils are 2 bucks a pound, broccoli is 3 bucks a pound, yams are 1.5 bucks a pound, green bell peppers are 1 each, peanuts are 4.5 a pound, etc. You get my point but I think it's more of a culture and convenience thing.
- deleted 9y ago
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0942v8653 9y ago
I don't understand this. Rice, potatoes, vegetables are still cheap here. I guess if you're looking at restaurants, this is true. If you are with a group and have to go eat somewhere, they usually provide healthy options which are not too expensive compared to the unhealthy ones (though sometimes, that's just due to smaller portions). Maybe you have a different experience, having just visited, instead of living here. addendum: it also depends quite heavily on the area's cost of living, apparently. I just bought a sack of potatoes for $0.40/lb, whereas https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16448984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16448984 says potatoes in LA are $1.88/lb (nearly 5x as expensive).
- pascalxus 9y ago
  yes. And beans. Beans are very cost effective, 1 to 2$ per pound or less. And they're very high in nutrients: Protein, Fiber, and countless micronutrients, super low in sodium and fat. They're easy to make too.
- poulsbohemian 9y ago
  I completely agree, but my thoughts are that it is biology in action -- people crave fats and sugars, and by themselves rice, beans, etc don't have much flavor. Or, the average American's palate has become so conditioned to sugar that they think those things don't have flavor. They have also been conditioned to think of meat as the go-to source for protein. Plus, frankly, there is a stigma of "rice and beans" being poor people food or even "ethnic" food in some circles, Ie: compare a meat / potato / bread heavy "traditional" American diet.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  I found buying fruits and veggies in LA to be much cheaper than Seattle, unfortunately. Both are still cheaper than Switzerland (but then...what is cheap in Switzerland?).
Isamu 9y ago
Shelf space at the stores seems to be shifting more toward prepared and semi-prepared foods. This comes at a cost of more carbs, sugar, etc. I interpret this trend as consumer choice, that people are preferring to spend less time cooking and preparing meals. If you have a strong food culture that demands fresh ingredients (Italy) then the prices may follow.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Not shelf space -- shelf placement. An entire new science of how people shop developed in the past few decades. The centermost aisles are prime territory. So, the higher-margin, fast-turnover items get center aisles and medium height (easily seen) shelves. Wholesalers actually pay for placement rights for things like chips and soda -- that's why they are organized by brand rather than product. Produce gets moved to one end of the store (generally the end nearest the main entrance because produce is low priority for shoplifters.
natethinks 9y ago
I find healthy food to be very accessible in the United States if you cook for yourself. Most of our grocery stores have huge varieties of produce and lean proteins are relatively inexpensive. I think eating fast food is becoming more and more common as well as people buying pre-made packaged foods to heat up at home which are often just as unhealthy as fast foods.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  > Most of our grocery stores have huge varieties of produce and lean proteins are relatively inexpensive It depends on where you live. In the U.S. poor and working class neighborhoods often lack grocery stores. The only options are convenience stores where fresh, healthy food is very expensive, availability is limited, and quality is poor. I've read that the problem is on such a wide scale that it significantly impacts health. Cities work at attracting grocery chains to poor neighborhoods. Try it yourself: Try shopping for groceries in a neighborhood with those demographics in your town. Or just layer a map of income with a map of grocery stores; I think I can predict where you will find the Whole Foods.
  - criddell 9y ago
    Here's a map that talks about this: http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defi...
- deleted 9y ago
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always_good 9y ago
I watched a good youtube video that compared the 7/11-level food available in japan vs america and was convinced that this is one of the biggest issues. What's the healthiest thing you can get in a 7/11 in the States? An apple? One of those shitty packaged sandwiches that has a slice of ham with a mysterious wad of splooge? A hotdog that's been turning on the spit all day? Then you realize this is how it is every step of the way. It's a cultural problem. With a lot of the world trailing right behind. You can blame everything on personal choice, and that might make you feel good, but that doesn't help us solve systemic issues. I live in Mexico now which has some of the worst obesity issues as well due to their soft drink consumption. They just had a president that was the ex-president of Coca Cola. > It was during the Fox's leadership of Coca-Cola Mexico that Coke became Mexico's top-selling soft drink, increasing Coca-Cola's sales by almost 50%. But Mexico still has healthy enough food that's readily available. Getting a bag of chips from 7/11 has to compete with a just-as-cheap taco stand right outside. I find it easy to eat pretty healthy here for that reason. I love some tacos and nopal salad. Meanwhile in Austin you can't even find a taquero outside of East Riverside. And, of course, the lack of walkability in the US is horrifying. I don't ever want to live somewhere where I can't walk to a fruit stand or cafe ever again. I think of any time I've felt dullness in my life and every time it was at a point in my life where I had to drive everywhere. Like playing an open-world game and only using fast travel, missing out on all the small interactions that turn out to be the spice of life.
- ghaff 9y ago
  For whatever reason, there seems to be a gap in the US between convenience store and full-fledged grocery store. There are various mostly non-chain markets in many cities but, for the most part, you either have pretty much junk food or you have to find a big grocery store. In London at least there are a lot more of the Sainsbury Local or other chains that don't have the selection of a bigger store but aren't just junk either.
  - lozenge 9y ago
    It's the walkability again. If I'm getting in a car, I may as well go somewhere that will have everything I could possibly need. Also, I do feel the store you mention, and similar ones, are de-emphasising veg in favour of higher margin packaged/processed items. Although, they are wildly optimised for each store placement so it is difficult to tell.
notadoc 9y ago
Perhaps you're thinking only of restaurants, because healthy food is far cheaper than fast food or any restaurant food in general, but it does require going to any grocery store and then spending a few minutes cooking.
lobster_johnson 9y ago
I'm curious about this. I lived in a predominantly Latino (mostly Puerto Rican) neighborhood of Brooklyn for a while a couple of years back. The supermarkets were full of fresh, cheap food, yet the customers (who were consistently overweight and often obese, including the kids) were piling their shopping carts up with terrible stuff -- sugary cereals (Froot Loops etc.), sugary drinks (sodas, fruit juices, Caprisun, iced tea), white bread, snacks (cookies, doughnuts, potato chips), tons of frozen microwave meals, etc. I never saw a shopping cart filled with anything healthy and unprocessed. And I realized that I was actually being very picky walking through this place. I had to ignore 90% of the stuff they stock their shelves with because it's unhealthy. Places like Whole Foods have the same problem, of course -- it's also full of sugary drinks and cookies, except they're labeled "organic" and made with "natural sugar cane" or agave, or they're things low/no fat yogurt (containing more sugar than the full fat ones). You can get fat on Whole Foods groceries if you're not super picky.
- chefandy 9y ago
  Definitely seems odd on its face, but if you dig into it, you'll see that it's SO much more complex than simple access. Other factors include, but are certainly not limited to: Time to prepare: fresh foods generally take a lot longer, and a lot more effort to prepare than processed foods. When you've got each available parent working two jobs then this is a huge barrier. Knowledge of preparation: especially in immigrant populations, not everybody has access to the ingredients they're used to. Knowledge of nutrition: it's not like life comes with an instruction manual, and if you got little to no nutrition education, you probably don't realize the impact of those empty calories. Fussy Kids: people who appeasing fussy kids (yeah yeah yeah... the hardos without kids will say you should just force them to eat it. Life isn't so straightforward.) Waste: this is a huge factor. If you've got a tiny amount of cash and you need to spend it on things that will ensure you wont starve, something that will potentially go bad in a few days is a risky proposition, so you tend to stock up on heavily processed shelf stable items. Price: Cheap is in the eye of the beholder. You can get a whole bag of chips for the same price as 2 apples. When you have a REALLY borderline income, your "cheap" is a lot different than someone else's. There's plenty of other factors. Check out the research on it for more info. Really interesting stuff to dig into.
nsxwolf 9y ago
I don't get this. You'll get just as fat with "healthy" food. People aren't skipping small portions of healthy food because it's expensive - they just don't want to eat it at all, or they want to eat enough of it to feel full and satisfied, which is going to make them fat.
conistonwater 9y ago
My (potentially incorrect) impression was that the Common Agricultural Policy in Europe meant that the affordable food prices you get used to could just be the result of subsidies. So any country with different subsidies would have surprisingly high food prices and give you sticker shock, but that wouldn't really mean all that much, it's like the difference between paying for it in the store vs paying for it with taxes. Is this plausible?
factsaresacred 9y ago
Decent by Italian standards is pretty decent. But if we're talking about fresh fruit and vegetables, go to any Asian market. Or Walmart. It's not that expensive. There's few good reasons to be eating tripe if you live in a city or live in a 'food desert' (spare me) and have a car. The real problem is the overabundance of crap choices crowding out the sensible ones. For example, here's Walmart's online store: https://www.walmart.com/all-departments#food--household---pets https://www.walmart.com/all-departments#food--household---pe.... Now look at the categories: Beverages, Snacks & Cookies (listed before meals), Candy & gum. Ctrl + F for 'fresh', and all I get is flowers. Madness. By contract, here's Tesco in the UK: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/?icid=dchp_groceriesshopgroceries https://www.tesco.com/groceries/?icid=dchp_groceriesshopgroc... Fresh food is top of the list. And three sub-sections are all 'fresh' something. There's zero reason Walmart can't do the same. Except for the fact that Americans demand soda and 800 different types of cookies, so that's what they're supplied with. Edit: this submission was bumped from first to the third page within minutes...for whatever reason. Comment to upvote ratio perhaps?
- ghaff 9y ago
  My local Walmart isn't my favorite store in the world to go to for fresh produce and meat. The selection and quality are generally inferior to a couple of local regular supermarkets. But I could absolutely shop for food there that isn't all highly processed. The thing is that, as you suggest, the pre-packaged deli section is bigger than the unprocessed meat section. And then there's the soda aisle, the chip aisle, etc. Shelf space is hugely tilted toward "junk" and other highly processed food. My regular supermarkets have lots of processed food too of course. (And nothing wrong with a lot of that in moderation.) But it's far less skewed than in the case of Walmart.
smoothgrips 9y ago
> I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healthy food has nonsensical high prices and if you want something at a human price you don't have much choice except fast food. What a shame. We recently just spent a week in Spain. We went to the grocery store and bought a whole cart full of food for like 20 euros. I was blown away. The equivalent amount of food in the US would have easily been like 100 dollars, probably more.
samsonradu 9y ago
Same here, I was chasing asian street food for breakfast. From my touristy experience US breakfasts consist of no vegetables and all sorts of sweets.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Not a lot of vegetables but eggs, sausage, and bacon are very common. But yes, if you’re vegan or at least prefer food that is more vegetable in nature you’ll have a tough time other than fruit.
  - samsonradu 9y ago
    I'm quite far from a vegan, but eating all you mentioned + waffles with syrup really is too much for my stomach. Some salad/tomatoes/cucumber next to that would have helped.

pascalxus 9y ago

That's partly because much of the government subsides go towards subsidizing corn, ending up in high fructose corn syrup and all the junk food most people consume. It's quite sad, that everyone is so okay with this. Personally, I try to eat as healthy as possible and use my nutrient finder (https://kale.world/c https://kale.world/c) to find high nutrient, low calorie foods, which end up being mostly beans, vegetables and fruits.

nickcoury 9y ago
Agreed, the subsidized corn is also used as cheap feed for low quality meat. On the flip side fruits and vegetables receive the lowest subsidies. Plus the lower cost of unhealthy foods decreases demand for relatively more expensive healthy foods, lowering demand which drives prices up even higher. Tough to keep perishable foods when people don’t buy them as quickly. It’s a self reinforcing cycle to the bottom.
artursapek 9y ago
Did you make this kale.world? It's pretty nifty.
- pascalxus 9y ago
  yes. Thank you.
Bartweiss 9y ago
Wow - the rest of the thread aside, that's a fantastic nutrition tool. edit: I just fed it one of the tasks I've found most frustrating - how to optimize protein:carbs ratio without resorting to meat. Most of the diet advice I've seen on that question is unhelpful, since it emphasizes for "enough protein" and not ratio. But this turned up exactly what I was after.

hangonhn 9y ago

I was in Bologna not too long ago and I was baffled by how fresh, high quality ingredients are available at affordable prices. I've seen similar quality ingredients in the Bay Area but they charge an arm and a leg for it. I don't know how the Italians do it or why we Americans have such a hard time doing something similar.

maxxxxx 9y ago
When we were in Italy even the freeway rest stops had excellent fresh food. Here you can't find anything even remotely edible on freeway stops.
tptacek 9y ago
Try switching from Whole Foods to your nearest Mexican grocer.
neonhomer 9y ago
I remember 10+ years ago how the food at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris was better than most food in the US. It was kind of sad.
nsxwolf 9y ago
Why would "fresh" and "high quality" make you lose weight?
- hangonhn 9y ago
  That's a good question. I think it has to do with a lot of food that are not calorie dense and more likely to satiate you simply taste better fresh and not so great past a certain age. On the flip side, foods that tends to taste good for a long time also tend to be calorie dense and some studies suggest aren't likely to trigger the signals for satiation.
- always_good 9y ago
  I can't think of too many food products that are making people fat that can be called fresh and high-quality. Fruit and vegetables come to mind.

tjr225 9y ago

I wonder if there are any subsidies paid for by taxpayers to the businesses that sell us cheap, unhealthy food. Freedom to kill ourselves and each other, it seems...

mhb 9y ago
Subsidies are the opposite of freedom. But other than that, good point.

nkkollaw 9y ago

Meh, veggies, rice, etc. are super-cheap everywhere in the world. It doesn't take money to eat healthy. It's not that fast food restaurants are the only choice is you don't have money. You can go to a grocery store and eat extremely healthy if you want to. Those who eat at fast food restaurants all the time are more uneducated than poor (although both things might go hand-in-hand), and might not know how many calories are in a burger or more importantly sodas (I've seen people drinking liters every day). You can buy an apple instead of a can of coke and save you both a few hundred calories and a few pennies. Nothing to do with money.

AlphaSite 9y ago
Veggies are not cheap here, its cheaper in the UK and even in Singapore where everything is imported than in California.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Aww, come on! How much is 1 kg of carrots or potatoes? Banana (0.25 kg) 0.63 $ Oranges (0.30 kg) 1.04 $ Tomato (0.20 kg) 0.85 $ Potato (0.20 kg) 0.60 $ Onion (0.10 kg) 0.26 $ Lettuce (0.20 head) 0.28 $ Not the best source probably, but by looking at https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Los-Angeles https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Los-Angeles it doesn't seem like one can easily go broke from buying vegetables.
  - lostcolony 9y ago
    Yeah, all of those are single serving prices that you're looking at, and only the onion (and I guess lettuce if it's not romaine) is actually a vegetable. Potatoes are starches, the others are fruits (with higher sugar). They don't list much in the way of vegetable prices. But, even given that; I can buy a head of lettuce for $1.40. Okay. Or, I could buy an 8 pack of little debbie snack cakes for the same amount. 5 servings of lettuce that has nearly no nutritional substance, and that I have to combine with something else anyway to make it palatable...or 8 servings of convenient, enjoyed food. If I wanted crunch, I can get a giant bag of tortilla chips for $1, too. Why would I buy a head of lettuce for 40% more, when it takes more work, and more ingredients inflating the price even higher?

yodsanklai 9y ago

I would add that many Americans seem totally unaware that junk food is bad for them and for their kids. Even in well-educated families, I would see kids drinking soda and eating snacks all the time. As I understand it, it is also a political issue, food corporation have huge marketing power and any attempts of regulation draw big protests (free will / nanny state arguments).

poulsbohemian 9y ago
My ex has a degree in biology, yet can't understand that feeding the kids box mac-and-cheese and pasta multiple times per week (because it is easy to prepare) is what's making them fat, not just the portion sizes. So yeah, what you describe is real. I'd take it one step further though - not only do most Americans not really understand the content of their food, but most can't cook. They have really no understanding of how to plan means, shop for meals, or prepare meals quickly. So then you throw in long working hours and commute times and they feel compelled to reach for food that is fundamentally unhealthy.
- zaroth 9y ago
  I would suspect most kids learned to cook because a parent was home doing all the cooking, and when they got home from school they would be expected to assist with meal prep. With both parents working, less time to prepare meals, we are raising a generation who on average has a lot less first-hand experience with how to cook, and certainly how to cook healthy balanced meals.
  - poulsbohemian 9y ago
    Here's what's weird for me... my mom came from a traditional farm family - so she really knew how to cook. She was also a home economics teacher for many years, so she taught middle schoolers how to cook. While I remember vaguely being in the kitchen with her as a kid, I really don't remember her ever teaching me anything in particular. It certainly wasn't an every-day thing for me to help with meal prep. But, today I'm a really good cook and have done the majority of meal prep for my family (3 kids) both in and out of being in a two-adult household. I guess what I'm saying is -- I agree with you, but I also think that too many adults cop out on "I don't know how to cook!!!!" when it is actually not that hard to figure it out. Anyone can make a salad, throw some veggies in a wok, make some rice and beans, etc. The healthiest meals are in many cases the easiest to make, but somehow people think it is even easier to grab that frozen lasagna out of the freezer.

adrr 9y ago

Healthy food isn't expensive. You can buy chicken breast for $3 to $5 a pound. You can buy a head of lettuce for $2. Oatmeal is dirt cheap. Most vegetables are less than $3 a pound.

minikites 9y ago
Vegetables have very few calories. Look at the cost per calorie: http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-economics-of-obesity.html http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-e... Broccoli is $2.93 per 200 Calories. Doritos are 39 cents per 200 calories. That's the issue.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  I don't think access to raw calories is the problem here, given that we're talking about people being _overweight_. Broccoli provides considerably more satiety per calorie than Doritos, to say nothing of the difference in healthfulness.
  - nsxwolf 9y ago
    You could raise the price of Doritos to be higher than broccoli and overweight people will still choose the Doritos. Source: Me
danharaj 9y ago
If you're buying non-frozen leafy greens that have been sitting around before getting sold a great deal of nutritional content has degraded and you can definitely taste it. Vegetables aren't subsidized the same way corn is.
virtuowl 9y ago
That is around 2 times what i pay in germany
- maxerickson 9y ago

trophycase 9y ago

Honestly this is only slightly true. Beans are 2 bucks a pound, cabbage is 2 bucks a head, bananas are 50 cents a pound, chicken is 4 bucks a pound, lentils are 2 bucks a pound, broccoli is 3 bucks a pound, yams are 1.5 bucks a pound, green bell peppers are 1 each, peanuts are 4.5 a pound, etc. You get my point but I think it's more of a culture and convenience thing.

deleted 9y ago
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0942v8653 9y ago

I don't understand this. Rice, potatoes, vegetables are still cheap here. I guess if you're looking at restaurants, this is true. If you are with a group and have to go eat somewhere, they usually provide healthy options which are not too expensive compared to the unhealthy ones (though sometimes, that's just due to smaller portions). Maybe you have a different experience, having just visited, instead of living here. addendum: it also depends quite heavily on the area's cost of living, apparently. I just bought a sack of potatoes for $0.40/lb, whereas https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16448984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16448984 says potatoes in LA are $1.88/lb (nearly 5x as expensive).

pascalxus 9y ago
yes. And beans. Beans are very cost effective, 1 to 2$ per pound or less. And they're very high in nutrients: Protein, Fiber, and countless micronutrients, super low in sodium and fat. They're easy to make too.
poulsbohemian 9y ago
I completely agree, but my thoughts are that it is biology in action -- people crave fats and sugars, and by themselves rice, beans, etc don't have much flavor. Or, the average American's palate has become so conditioned to sugar that they think those things don't have flavor. They have also been conditioned to think of meat as the go-to source for protein. Plus, frankly, there is a stigma of "rice and beans" being poor people food or even "ethnic" food in some circles, Ie: compare a meat / potato / bread heavy "traditional" American diet.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
I found buying fruits and veggies in LA to be much cheaper than Seattle, unfortunately. Both are still cheaper than Switzerland (but then...what is cheap in Switzerland?).

Isamu 9y ago

Shelf space at the stores seems to be shifting more toward prepared and semi-prepared foods. This comes at a cost of more carbs, sugar, etc. I interpret this trend as consumer choice, that people are preferring to spend less time cooking and preparing meals. If you have a strong food culture that demands fresh ingredients (Italy) then the prices may follow.

DrScump 9y ago
Not shelf space -- shelf placement. An entire new science of how people shop developed in the past few decades. The centermost aisles are prime territory. So, the higher-margin, fast-turnover items get center aisles and medium height (easily seen) shelves. Wholesalers actually pay for placement rights for things like chips and soda -- that's why they are organized by brand rather than product. Produce gets moved to one end of the store (generally the end nearest the main entrance because produce is low priority for shoplifters.

natethinks 9y ago

I find healthy food to be very accessible in the United States if you cook for yourself. Most of our grocery stores have huge varieties of produce and lean proteins are relatively inexpensive. I think eating fast food is becoming more and more common as well as people buying pre-made packaged foods to heat up at home which are often just as unhealthy as fast foods.

forapurpose 9y ago
> Most of our grocery stores have huge varieties of produce and lean proteins are relatively inexpensive It depends on where you live. In the U.S. poor and working class neighborhoods often lack grocery stores. The only options are convenience stores where fresh, healthy food is very expensive, availability is limited, and quality is poor. I've read that the problem is on such a wide scale that it significantly impacts health. Cities work at attracting grocery chains to poor neighborhoods. Try it yourself: Try shopping for groceries in a neighborhood with those demographics in your town. Or just layer a map of income with a map of grocery stores; I think I can predict where you will find the Whole Foods.
- criddell 9y ago
  Here's a map that talks about this: http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defi...
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always_good 9y ago

I watched a good youtube video that compared the 7/11-level food available in japan vs america and was convinced that this is one of the biggest issues. What's the healthiest thing you can get in a 7/11 in the States? An apple? One of those shitty packaged sandwiches that has a slice of ham with a mysterious wad of splooge? A hotdog that's been turning on the spit all day? Then you realize this is how it is every step of the way. It's a cultural problem. With a lot of the world trailing right behind. You can blame everything on personal choice, and that might make you feel good, but that doesn't help us solve systemic issues. I live in Mexico now which has some of the worst obesity issues as well due to their soft drink consumption. They just had a president that was the ex-president of Coca Cola. > It was during the Fox's leadership of Coca-Cola Mexico that Coke became Mexico's top-selling soft drink, increasing Coca-Cola's sales by almost 50%. But Mexico still has healthy enough food that's readily available. Getting a bag of chips from 7/11 has to compete with a just-as-cheap taco stand right outside. I find it easy to eat pretty healthy here for that reason. I love some tacos and nopal salad. Meanwhile in Austin you can't even find a taquero outside of East Riverside. And, of course, the lack of walkability in the US is horrifying. I don't ever want to live somewhere where I can't walk to a fruit stand or cafe ever again. I think of any time I've felt dullness in my life and every time it was at a point in my life where I had to drive everywhere. Like playing an open-world game and only using fast travel, missing out on all the small interactions that turn out to be the spice of life.

ghaff 9y ago
For whatever reason, there seems to be a gap in the US between convenience store and full-fledged grocery store. There are various mostly non-chain markets in many cities but, for the most part, you either have pretty much junk food or you have to find a big grocery store. In London at least there are a lot more of the Sainsbury Local or other chains that don't have the selection of a bigger store but aren't just junk either.
- lozenge 9y ago
  It's the walkability again. If I'm getting in a car, I may as well go somewhere that will have everything I could possibly need. Also, I do feel the store you mention, and similar ones, are de-emphasising veg in favour of higher margin packaged/processed items. Although, they are wildly optimised for each store placement so it is difficult to tell.

notadoc 9y ago

Perhaps you're thinking only of restaurants, because healthy food is far cheaper than fast food or any restaurant food in general, but it does require going to any grocery store and then spending a few minutes cooking.

lobster_johnson 9y ago

I'm curious about this. I lived in a predominantly Latino (mostly Puerto Rican) neighborhood of Brooklyn for a while a couple of years back. The supermarkets were full of fresh, cheap food, yet the customers (who were consistently overweight and often obese, including the kids) were piling their shopping carts up with terrible stuff -- sugary cereals (Froot Loops etc.), sugary drinks (sodas, fruit juices, Caprisun, iced tea), white bread, snacks (cookies, doughnuts, potato chips), tons of frozen microwave meals, etc. I never saw a shopping cart filled with anything healthy and unprocessed. And I realized that I was actually being very picky walking through this place. I had to ignore 90% of the stuff they stock their shelves with because it's unhealthy. Places like Whole Foods have the same problem, of course -- it's also full of sugary drinks and cookies, except they're labeled "organic" and made with "natural sugar cane" or agave, or they're things low/no fat yogurt (containing more sugar than the full fat ones). You can get fat on Whole Foods groceries if you're not super picky.

chefandy 9y ago
Definitely seems odd on its face, but if you dig into it, you'll see that it's SO much more complex than simple access. Other factors include, but are certainly not limited to: Time to prepare: fresh foods generally take a lot longer, and a lot more effort to prepare than processed foods. When you've got each available parent working two jobs then this is a huge barrier. Knowledge of preparation: especially in immigrant populations, not everybody has access to the ingredients they're used to. Knowledge of nutrition: it's not like life comes with an instruction manual, and if you got little to no nutrition education, you probably don't realize the impact of those empty calories. Fussy Kids: people who appeasing fussy kids (yeah yeah yeah... the hardos without kids will say you should just force them to eat it. Life isn't so straightforward.) Waste: this is a huge factor. If you've got a tiny amount of cash and you need to spend it on things that will ensure you wont starve, something that will potentially go bad in a few days is a risky proposition, so you tend to stock up on heavily processed shelf stable items. Price: Cheap is in the eye of the beholder. You can get a whole bag of chips for the same price as 2 apples. When you have a REALLY borderline income, your "cheap" is a lot different than someone else's. There's plenty of other factors. Check out the research on it for more info. Really interesting stuff to dig into.

nsxwolf 9y ago

I don't get this. You'll get just as fat with "healthy" food. People aren't skipping small portions of healthy food because it's expensive - they just don't want to eat it at all, or they want to eat enough of it to feel full and satisfied, which is going to make them fat.

conistonwater 9y ago

My (potentially incorrect) impression was that the Common Agricultural Policy in Europe meant that the affordable food prices you get used to could just be the result of subsidies. So any country with different subsidies would have surprisingly high food prices and give you sticker shock, but that wouldn't really mean all that much, it's like the difference between paying for it in the store vs paying for it with taxes. Is this plausible?

factsaresacred 9y ago

Decent by Italian standards is pretty decent. But if we're talking about fresh fruit and vegetables, go to any Asian market. Or Walmart. It's not that expensive. There's few good reasons to be eating tripe if you live in a city or live in a 'food desert' (spare me) and have a car. The real problem is the overabundance of crap choices crowding out the sensible ones. For example, here's Walmart's online store: https://www.walmart.com/all-departments#food--household---pets https://www.walmart.com/all-departments#food--household---pe.... Now look at the categories: Beverages, Snacks & Cookies (listed before meals), Candy & gum. Ctrl + F for 'fresh', and all I get is flowers. Madness. By contract, here's Tesco in the UK: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/?icid=dchp_groceriesshopgroceries https://www.tesco.com/groceries/?icid=dchp_groceriesshopgroc... Fresh food is top of the list. And three sub-sections are all 'fresh' something. There's zero reason Walmart can't do the same. Except for the fact that Americans demand soda and 800 different types of cookies, so that's what they're supplied with. Edit: this submission was bumped from first to the third page within minutes...for whatever reason. Comment to upvote ratio perhaps?

ghaff 9y ago
My local Walmart isn't my favorite store in the world to go to for fresh produce and meat. The selection and quality are generally inferior to a couple of local regular supermarkets. But I could absolutely shop for food there that isn't all highly processed. The thing is that, as you suggest, the pre-packaged deli section is bigger than the unprocessed meat section. And then there's the soda aisle, the chip aisle, etc. Shelf space is hugely tilted toward "junk" and other highly processed food. My regular supermarkets have lots of processed food too of course. (And nothing wrong with a lot of that in moderation.) But it's far less skewed than in the case of Walmart.

smoothgrips 9y ago

> I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healthy food has nonsensical high prices and if you want something at a human price you don't have much choice except fast food. What a shame. We recently just spent a week in Spain. We went to the grocery store and bought a whole cart full of food for like 20 euros. I was blown away. The equivalent amount of food in the US would have easily been like 100 dollars, probably more.

samsonradu 9y ago

Same here, I was chasing asian street food for breakfast. From my touristy experience US breakfasts consist of no vegetables and all sorts of sweets.

ghaff 9y ago
Not a lot of vegetables but eggs, sausage, and bacon are very common. But yes, if you’re vegan or at least prefer food that is more vegetable in nature you’ll have a tough time other than fruit.
- samsonradu 9y ago
  I'm quite far from a vegan, but eating all you mentioned + waffles with syrup really is too much for my stomach. Some salad/tomatoes/cucumber next to that would have helped.