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> Relative to all of the other things we're willing to spend $18 on — like a glass of wine or small-batch bourbon — investing in the memorable flavor experience

> Relative to all of the other things we're willing to spend $18 on — like a glass of wine or small-batch bourbon — investing in the memorable flavor experience of a great cup of coffee is worth it. This quote further in the article captures the reason why someone might spend more. Producing good coffee is actually more expensive than the market would lead you to believe. For some people drinking good coffee is exactly like experiencing a fine wine.

noir_lord 9y ago
I still wouldn't pay $18 but I'm sure some would. That said the best coffee near me is in the little market and it's both cheaper and vastly better than star bucks, I go there after Chess Club on a Saturday and review the games I just played, it's so good I would pay £5 (~$7.5) for that one cup a week because it's an experience not the caffeine, the rest of the time it's LIDL's Columbian instant (which is a damn fine instant).
IntronExon 9y ago
Given what I’ve learned about fraud in the wine world, the nature of individual taste perception, and the inflated value of wine... I’m sure it is entirely similar. Useful references: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fraud https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fraud
- briandear 9y ago
  Think wine is bad .. wait until you look at the olive oil business!
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Oh yeah, the mafia is deep in that one too. The best advice I’ve gotten for olive oil, coffee, wine, beer, and chocolate is to satisfy your palette. If you like it, great! It doesn’t really matter if a group of “experts” disagrees, although it can be helpful to try a wide spectrum at first.
- rublev 9y ago
  I don't think it is. I don't give a flying fuck about coffee or food or wine or any of that shit, but I can genuinely taste differences in coffee. I'd be surprised if you couldn't. There's a little roaster in St Lawrence Market where I go and I pickup random bags of whatever coffees for fun, and they are extremely different. Wine I've never been able to discern. I don't think coffee is in the same league at all.
- Canadauni 9y ago
  In contrast coffee in general is vastly underpriced. In a shop you are lonely going to pay a premium but beans are generally produced by an underpaid labour market that allows for coffee to maintain such a low value.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    So, it’s like most clothing, and consumer electronics, jewelry, and so on?
almostApatriot1 9y ago
>For some people drinking good coffee is exactly like experiencing a fine wine. I would phrase it differently. Americans have become conditioned to accept high prices for drinks. For lots of reasons, but mostly because they are real money makers in almost every place that sells any sort of drink. I mean, it costs up to $6 for a bottle of kombucha, and I know people who go through a couple of those a day. The next logical step is a $20 coffee. Meanwhile in Europe you can get a good espresso for a euro.
- adventured 9y ago
  That's obviously a false extrapolation on cultures. In Paris you're not spending one euro on espresso typically. It's going to be closer to 2.50 to 3 euros. Adjust that to dollars, you get more like $3 to $3.70, adjust for income differences you get $5 to $6 (US incomes are far higher than French incomes, and especially if we're comparing eg NYC vs Paris). https://francetravelplanner.com/go/paris/shop/costs.html https://francetravelplanner.com/go/paris/shop/costs.html Americans have not been conditioned to accept high prices for drinks. When was the last time you wandered through Walmart's beverages section? Their grocery section has half an aisle for inexpensive coffee and tea products, and then another half aisle for inexpensive soda products. As another example, cases of water at Walmart go for $4 for a brand label pack of 24 to 32 500ml bottles, or $0.13 to $0.17 per unit. If anything, most Americans are conditioned to expect to pay very cheap prices for purchased beverages. That's why Starbucks is considered expensive to the average person. A small group of high income Americans find it acceptable to spend what is a trivial sum for them, on such product experiences. The notion that many Americans are spending $15-$20 on daily beverages, is laughable. The median income is $30,000. You want me to believe a lot of people are spending $7,000 annually on beverages? Yeah right. It's equivalent to saying: in the US you can buy a vast array of great wines for $10 to $20, while in France people are paying $140 for wine. Sure, some people in France are. It'd be false to pretend a large number of people in France are doing that regularly. Few Americans are actually spending outsized sums of money on beverages.
  - ardit33 9y ago
    In Rome, I bought 1.20 euro for a espresso, and 2.0 for a cappuccino, right smack in the middle of the city near the train station. In Albania, it is the 0.80 for a medium-good espresso (Lavazza or Illy), and 1.20 to 1.50 for a cappuccino. In Barcelona, a glass of wine varied between 2.5. and 3 euros. I never paid more than that. In the US? 12-15 (In NYC at least). Also, in NYC, you can't buy a bottle of water for $1, in most places, while in supermarkets in Spain was about 0.50 or 0.60 So, yeah, Americans in general pay twice as much for beverages.

noir_lord 9y ago

I still wouldn't pay $18 but I'm sure some would. That said the best coffee near me is in the little market and it's both cheaper and vastly better than star bucks, I go there after Chess Club on a Saturday and review the games I just played, it's so good I would pay £5 (~$7.5) for that one cup a week because it's an experience not the caffeine, the rest of the time it's LIDL's Columbian instant (which is a damn fine instant).

IntronExon 9y ago

Given what I’ve learned about fraud in the wine world, the nature of individual taste perception, and the inflated value of wine... I’m sure it is entirely similar. Useful references: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fraud https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fraud

briandear 9y ago
Think wine is bad .. wait until you look at the olive oil business!
- IntronExon 9y ago
  Oh yeah, the mafia is deep in that one too. The best advice I’ve gotten for olive oil, coffee, wine, beer, and chocolate is to satisfy your palette. If you like it, great! It doesn’t really matter if a group of “experts” disagrees, although it can be helpful to try a wide spectrum at first.
rublev 9y ago
I don't think it is. I don't give a flying fuck about coffee or food or wine or any of that shit, but I can genuinely taste differences in coffee. I'd be surprised if you couldn't. There's a little roaster in St Lawrence Market where I go and I pickup random bags of whatever coffees for fun, and they are extremely different. Wine I've never been able to discern. I don't think coffee is in the same league at all.
Canadauni 9y ago
In contrast coffee in general is vastly underpriced. In a shop you are lonely going to pay a premium but beans are generally produced by an underpaid labour market that allows for coffee to maintain such a low value.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  So, it’s like most clothing, and consumer electronics, jewelry, and so on?

almostApatriot1 9y ago

>For some people drinking good coffee is exactly like experiencing a fine wine. I would phrase it differently. Americans have become conditioned to accept high prices for drinks. For lots of reasons, but mostly because they are real money makers in almost every place that sells any sort of drink. I mean, it costs up to $6 for a bottle of kombucha, and I know people who go through a couple of those a day. The next logical step is a $20 coffee. Meanwhile in Europe you can get a good espresso for a euro.

adventured 9y ago
That's obviously a false extrapolation on cultures. In Paris you're not spending one euro on espresso typically. It's going to be closer to 2.50 to 3 euros. Adjust that to dollars, you get more like $3 to $3.70, adjust for income differences you get $5 to $6 (US incomes are far higher than French incomes, and especially if we're comparing eg NYC vs Paris). https://francetravelplanner.com/go/paris/shop/costs.html https://francetravelplanner.com/go/paris/shop/costs.html Americans have not been conditioned to accept high prices for drinks. When was the last time you wandered through Walmart's beverages section? Their grocery section has half an aisle for inexpensive coffee and tea products, and then another half aisle for inexpensive soda products. As another example, cases of water at Walmart go for $4 for a brand label pack of 24 to 32 500ml bottles, or $0.13 to $0.17 per unit. If anything, most Americans are conditioned to expect to pay very cheap prices for purchased beverages. That's why Starbucks is considered expensive to the average person. A small group of high income Americans find it acceptable to spend what is a trivial sum for them, on such product experiences. The notion that many Americans are spending $15-$20 on daily beverages, is laughable. The median income is $30,000. You want me to believe a lot of people are spending $7,000 annually on beverages? Yeah right. It's equivalent to saying: in the US you can buy a vast array of great wines for $10 to $20, while in France people are paying $140 for wine. Sure, some people in France are. It'd be false to pretend a large number of people in France are doing that regularly. Few Americans are actually spending outsized sums of money on beverages.
- ardit33 9y ago
  In Rome, I bought 1.20 euro for a espresso, and 2.0 for a cappuccino, right smack in the middle of the city near the train station. In Albania, it is the 0.80 for a medium-good espresso (Lavazza or Illy), and 1.20 to 1.50 for a cappuccino. In Barcelona, a glass of wine varied between 2.5. and 3 euros. I never paid more than that. In the US? 12-15 (In NYC at least). Also, in NYC, you can't buy a bottle of water for $1, in most places, while in supermarkets in Spain was about 0.50 or 0.60 So, yeah, Americans in general pay twice as much for beverages.