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Wait until GDPR is in place in May and German and other EU courts will rule FB to death. IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upco

Wait until GDPR is in place in May and German and other EU courts will rule FB to death. IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets.

twblalock 9y ago
Here is a list of countries with the most Facebook users: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-... The first EU country is #10, and it won't even be an EU country in a few years. I think Facebook would survive leaving the EU market just fine. I'm sure they really, really don't want to, but they could. Edit: updated link
- manmal 9y ago
  Leaving the EU would have very strong network effects and is IMO not an option for Facebook. The entry barrier to social networks is so low now that this could trigger a mass exodus in the rest of the world.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    Leaving doesn't mean erasing all the profiles. It just means shutting down local corporate presences. It'd suck for the employees but Facebook can run things out of Palo Alto just fine. I'm not sure what it'd involve for contracts and payments. But many EU firms have US legal presences too. They could easily buy ads on Facebook through their US presence. Multi-nationalism works both ways.
    - Xylakant 9y ago
      Let them buy ads targeted to their EU customers through their US presence, fine the EU firm for circumventing the rules. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No.
      - peoplewindow 9y ago
        From the perspective of the US company, then it's not them getting fined so not their problem. And if the EU wants to fine its own companies for buying adverts, they can go right ahead and do that. Doesn't seem very practical for the local economy though.
        tripzilch 9y ago
        Yeah but there's many other, compliant, ways to advertise so they'll just do that instead.
    - manmal 9y ago
      The GDPR does not allow international players to store data on EU citizens without conforming to the rules. So if FB leaves in order to avoid conformance, then they have to delete all EU citizen data.
      - kasey_junk 9y ago
        The point is without a European corporate presence the EU loses its ability to enforce GDPR.
        kaybe 9y ago
        Can ads be sold internationally that easily?
        kasey_junk 9y ago
        No idea but GDPR gives folks a lot of reason to figure it out.
        manmal 9y ago
        You are right, this might be the case, someday.. but as long as they have their tax-free money parked in the EU, removing all legal entities from the EU will be very expensive..
  - x0x0 9y ago
    Why do you think social networks have cross country network effects? Xing and VK seem to be doing just fine.
    - stochastic_monk 9y ago
      I’m completely unfamiliar with VK, but I’d love to believe that it’s a subtle nod to the Voight-Kampff test.
      - x0x0 9y ago
        sorry, vkontakte / vk.com
    - manmal 9y ago
      They are doing ok AFAIK, but are almost two orders of magnitude smaller than FB, user wise. I don‘t think Xing is even doing that well, they have started very aggressive monetization tactics recently, like forcing people to purchase a pro account in order to view incoming friend requests.
    - stordoff 9y ago
      I don't know about _strong_ network effects, but part of the appeal of Facebook (for me) is that it's universal - visitors to the country (e.g. exchange students) and people I've met overseas (holidays) are all in one place. Further, it doesn't result in you being introduced to (possibly better) Facebook alternatives in those situations. It may not a strong effect, but there is definitely small cross-country effects IMO.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  Link is not working for me, but if you mean the UK 1) GDPR applies to the UK even if Brexit happens. It is already a matter of UK law. In fact it seems the UK is leading the way to GDPR adoption. 2) It is totally unclear that Brexit is going to cause any changes to the UK/EU regulatory arrangements in anything but name.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    Point is that the UK government already has a tax regime. It has no incentive to fine Facebook so much there's a risk of it leaving. The ICO already said that it doesn't intend to use its big new fining powers under GDPR anyway, as there's no need. The rest of the EU is a bigger question. The EU is desperate for cash. It faces a huge budget shortfall, member states that don't want to pay more and it can't raise a corporation tax itself by treaty. Repeatedly fining tech firms looks like a nice way out for them. But that said, hopefully the UK will repeal GDPR eventually along with associated EU nonsense like the cookie law.
    - barrkel 9y ago
      You're just anti-EU, pro Brexit, I get it. This topic is a means for you to continue the same "conversation" you've been having for weeks.
    - jimnotgym 9y ago
      > Point is that the UK government already has a tax regime. It has no incentive to fine Facebook so much there's a risk of it leaving. Do Facebook have a presence in the UK? I thought they were headquartered in Dublin? Do Facebook pay tax in the UK? News to me. > The ICO already said that it doesn't intend to use its big new fining powers under GDPR anyway, as there's no need. Citation very much needed. The ICO will follow the law. The ICO is using it's DPA powers already. The > The EU is desperate for cash The EU organisation is handing rebates back to members at the moment...The UK just got one. Or perhaps you mean countries in the EU. Germany has a budget surplus, so I don't know what you could mean? you sound bitter? > But that said, hopefully the UK will repeal GDPR eventually a It seems extremely unlikely that the UK wont retain 'regulatory alignment'. This is actually part of the agreement over NI border? This will also be a prerequisite for a trade deal, and the UK will cintinue to make CE marked goods or they would not be able to sell them > long with associated EU nonsense like the cookie law. The EU is already on this one[0] What other 'nonsense' consumer protection law do you want undone? [0]https://www.carpedatumlaw.com/2017/01/goodbye-cookie-banners-european-commission-proposes-simplify-cookie-law/ https://www.carpedatumlaw.com/2017/01/goodbye-cookie-banners...
- lima 9y ago
  Wrong link :-)
  - twblalock 9y ago
    Oops!
- sgift 9y ago
  That assumes that the more people Facebook has in a country the more important that country is. I think the wealth of people in a country / block plays an important role in that consideration. And EU countries are far richer than most other countries.
- hashmal 9y ago
  There is a difference between looking at the first EU country in a list and the EU as a whole. It's not a market you can decide to leave on a whim if you're a serious business.
- twblalock 9y ago
  Heh, wrong link. It should be https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-...
lima 9y ago
The GDPR isn't actually as bad as people claim. The law is actually pretty reasonable. It is the result of years of discussion and deliberation. In fact, privacy watchdogs are complaining that it doesn't go far enough - it leaves plenty of holes. Most of the GDPR is about informed consent, having a valid reason for processing personal data and individual rights. Facebook will do just fine, they had years to prepare and an army of lawyers. It will force them to be more transparent, which is a good thing. Many EU member states like Germany already had very similar laws in place (like the BDSG), the GDPR unifies and standardizes them. Here's an excellent introduction: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...
- waytogo 9y ago
  > Facebook will do just fine, they had years to prepare and an army of lawyers. They won't do fine. Don't want to go into details but their actual products/required architectures for their products just can't be GDPR compliant. And they didn't prepare anything. You confuse them with Google--they prepared GDPR but FB? Btw, one of GDPR's key motivation was to take FB down.
  - ionforce 9y ago
    > one of GDPR's key motivation was to take FB down. Do you have a citation for this claim?
    - waytogo 9y ago
      It's the modern version of a trade war between the US and the EU which targets massive online monopolies which the EU doesn't have.
      - Crontab 9y ago
        That is an opinion - it doesn't prove your claim.
  - 9y ago
songshu 9y ago
The GDPR is beautiful and an example of the best outcomes democracy can produce. The winners are pretty much everyone. It's sad that the US can't implement public policy like this.
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  It is good that they are protecting their citizens from exploitation by US companies but this is not uncommon that it is easier to regulate a large company that is not your constituent. The EU has not done so well on regulating diesel autos for instance but the US is knocking that one of the park.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
    Your comparison is not correct. The practices of FB are not universally considered bad, many people are OK with them. The diesel scandal was a deliberate scheme to cheat everybody - you can't find anyone who considers what they did as good. And the Germans finally started arresting people, too - although the USA gave a good example.
    - petre 9y ago
      The Germans are treating VW just like the US was treating the bankers responsible for the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis: with a pat on the back.
    - tripzilch 9y ago
      > The practices of FB are not universally considered bad, many people are OK with them Really. Please point me at these people. People that simply "don't care, yolo" do not count. People that have a stake in this because they have an interest in the tech business and fear that any decisions in this matter might negatively impact their business, also do not count (because a very specific yet vocal slice of the tech sector is hardly representative of what is "universally" considered right or wrong). If you think that's too restrictive, and those are the only two groups you can point at, that's okay. I don't really believe those two groups (ignorance and business interest) should be considered representative of what is universally considered right or wrong. If you believe otherwise we'll have to agree to have a different view on ethics (which is a bit of a long discussion I'm not up for right now). Everybody else I hear about this (I said "almost everybody" at first, but I can't think of anyone), DOES think it's bad, but admit that "what can you do, if everyone uses it" (hence the need for EU regulations!!) and because "it's really useful to keep in touch with long-distance friends and family, also to plan events etc", the latter being a reasonable point except there's nothing unique about FB's capability providing this service, and it's really easy enough to do it without violating privacy, if it weren't for FB dominating the social network sphere and forcing the privacy violations on the general public.
mseebach 9y ago
> Wait until GDPR is in place in May and German and other EU courts will rule FB to death. If indeed GDPR will enable those courts to "rule FB to death", and not, as repeatedly promised, be entirely reasonable to comply with, including for Facebook, obviously Facebook will shut down in Europe (and so will a good number of other popular services), and tell their millions of former users why. Here's a quick, free lesson in politics: that will not end well for the GDPR.
- loup-vaillant 9y ago
  If they do this, traditional TV will likely bang our heads over how deceptive these companies are. They will point out the fine prints in the EULA with the most outraged tone possible. They will conflate the issue with US spying on everyone ("NSA" and "Snowden" will be uttered repeatedly). Because doing so is in the interest of EU corporate powers: let's drive away, or at least hinder, US companies on our soil, so we can develop our own. Even if the initial intent was not to put up a trade barrier, it will be used as such. Not that would be a bad thing: from what I have heard, the GDPR seems fine, as well as quite defensible.
  - mseebach 9y ago
    > the GDPR seems fine, as well as quite defensible. So, that's the thing. Either, it's fine and defensible, and the Facebooks of the world will just comply, and so won't be a trade barrier, or it's not. It can't be both. And also, don't wish for a "trade barrier" for this purpose, import substitution has been demonstrated over and over again to be really just awful policy.
    - loup-vaillant 9y ago
      I was hypothesising Facebook being unreasonable. And their business model could very well be incompatible with GDPR. They're an ad company that feeds on personal data. I'm not sure they can get the informed consent of most of their users for this. Simply put, GDPR could be reasonable and sue Facebook to death (at least within its borders).
vkou 9y ago
> IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets. By limiting their use of personal data, according to the law? And by requesting informed consent from users, instead of silently opting them into all their anti-privacy features? And by not hiding this two thirds of the way through a 100 page TOS? It's not like it's impossible to make a good faith attempt at all those things. Facebook isn't even trying. When they make a good faith attempt, and get sued out of existance, you may have a point. They haven't, though.
Gys 9y ago
I wonder. In my opinion more rules only means bigger hurdles for newcomers. The big companies might have a setback but will survive one way or another because they have the knowledge and money (lawyers, lobbyists) to adapt. A good example is the VAT law of Europe. No problem for big companies, but small companies struggle to comply (its a returning subject on HN). Or the net neutrality law in the US: it will become harder for a startup to disrupt YouTube.
- Mahn 9y ago
  Europe is too concerned wrestling with large US tech companies to understand that more regulations will only exacerbate the very thing they are trying to get away from.
romanovcode 9y ago
> withdrawal from these markets. Good, I would love to see FB be gone from EU altogether.
tripzilch 9y ago
> IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets. The worst case? I think that's the best case, actually. You do realize there's nothing special about Facebook at all, except for currently being the most popular and biggest social network. The major features I hear people repeat again and again for not leaving Facebook (keeping in touch with family and friends, planning events) also happen to the most basic, easily reproducible features. It's just getting the userbase that is hard. So yeah, Facebook withdrawing from EU markets? PLEASE DO! I predict within no time, we'll have a whole bunch of replacement social networks (they already exist even), with better features, better privacy and hopefully interoperability. It's not hard to switch at all, not even to the general public. They'll just register for whatever their friends are using. The only thing holding them hostage is that "everyone is on it". In fact teenagers already want to be on social networks their parents aren't on. They might lose their timeline, comments, posts, memories, pictures? Guess who they'll blame.

twblalock 9y ago

Here is a list of countries with the most Facebook users: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-... The first EU country is #10, and it won't even be an EU country in a few years. I think Facebook would survive leaving the EU market just fine. I'm sure they really, really don't want to, but they could. Edit: updated link

manmal 9y ago
Leaving the EU would have very strong network effects and is IMO not an option for Facebook. The entry barrier to social networks is so low now that this could trigger a mass exodus in the rest of the world.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Leaving doesn't mean erasing all the profiles. It just means shutting down local corporate presences. It'd suck for the employees but Facebook can run things out of Palo Alto just fine. I'm not sure what it'd involve for contracts and payments. But many EU firms have US legal presences too. They could easily buy ads on Facebook through their US presence. Multi-nationalism works both ways.
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    Let them buy ads targeted to their EU customers through their US presence, fine the EU firm for circumventing the rules. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No.
    - peoplewindow 9y ago
      From the perspective of the US company, then it's not them getting fined so not their problem. And if the EU wants to fine its own companies for buying adverts, they can go right ahead and do that. Doesn't seem very practical for the local economy though.
      - tripzilch 9y ago
        Yeah but there's many other, compliant, ways to advertise so they'll just do that instead.
  - manmal 9y ago
    The GDPR does not allow international players to store data on EU citizens without conforming to the rules. So if FB leaves in order to avoid conformance, then they have to delete all EU citizen data.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      The point is without a European corporate presence the EU loses its ability to enforce GDPR.
      - kaybe 9y ago
        Can ads be sold internationally that easily?
        kasey_junk 9y ago
        No idea but GDPR gives folks a lot of reason to figure it out.
      - manmal 9y ago
        You are right, this might be the case, someday.. but as long as they have their tax-free money parked in the EU, removing all legal entities from the EU will be very expensive..
- x0x0 9y ago
  Why do you think social networks have cross country network effects? Xing and VK seem to be doing just fine.
  - stochastic_monk 9y ago
    I’m completely unfamiliar with VK, but I’d love to believe that it’s a subtle nod to the Voight-Kampff test.
    - x0x0 9y ago
      sorry, vkontakte / vk.com
  - manmal 9y ago
    They are doing ok AFAIK, but are almost two orders of magnitude smaller than FB, user wise. I don‘t think Xing is even doing that well, they have started very aggressive monetization tactics recently, like forcing people to purchase a pro account in order to view incoming friend requests.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    I don't know about _strong_ network effects, but part of the appeal of Facebook (for me) is that it's universal - visitors to the country (e.g. exchange students) and people I've met overseas (holidays) are all in one place. Further, it doesn't result in you being introduced to (possibly better) Facebook alternatives in those situations. It may not a strong effect, but there is definitely small cross-country effects IMO.
jimnotgym 9y ago
Link is not working for me, but if you mean the UK 1) GDPR applies to the UK even if Brexit happens. It is already a matter of UK law. In fact it seems the UK is leading the way to GDPR adoption. 2) It is totally unclear that Brexit is going to cause any changes to the UK/EU regulatory arrangements in anything but name.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Point is that the UK government already has a tax regime. It has no incentive to fine Facebook so much there's a risk of it leaving. The ICO already said that it doesn't intend to use its big new fining powers under GDPR anyway, as there's no need. The rest of the EU is a bigger question. The EU is desperate for cash. It faces a huge budget shortfall, member states that don't want to pay more and it can't raise a corporation tax itself by treaty. Repeatedly fining tech firms looks like a nice way out for them. But that said, hopefully the UK will repeal GDPR eventually along with associated EU nonsense like the cookie law.
  - barrkel 9y ago
    You're just anti-EU, pro Brexit, I get it. This topic is a means for you to continue the same "conversation" you've been having for weeks.
  - jimnotgym 9y ago
    > Point is that the UK government already has a tax regime. It has no incentive to fine Facebook so much there's a risk of it leaving. Do Facebook have a presence in the UK? I thought they were headquartered in Dublin? Do Facebook pay tax in the UK? News to me. > The ICO already said that it doesn't intend to use its big new fining powers under GDPR anyway, as there's no need. Citation very much needed. The ICO will follow the law. The ICO is using it's DPA powers already. The > The EU is desperate for cash The EU organisation is handing rebates back to members at the moment...The UK just got one. Or perhaps you mean countries in the EU. Germany has a budget surplus, so I don't know what you could mean? you sound bitter? > But that said, hopefully the UK will repeal GDPR eventually a It seems extremely unlikely that the UK wont retain 'regulatory alignment'. This is actually part of the agreement over NI border? This will also be a prerequisite for a trade deal, and the UK will cintinue to make CE marked goods or they would not be able to sell them > long with associated EU nonsense like the cookie law. The EU is already on this one[0] What other 'nonsense' consumer protection law do you want undone? [0]https://www.carpedatumlaw.com/2017/01/goodbye-cookie-banners-european-commission-proposes-simplify-cookie-law/ https://www.carpedatumlaw.com/2017/01/goodbye-cookie-banners...
lima 9y ago
Wrong link :-)
- twblalock 9y ago
  Oops!
sgift 9y ago
That assumes that the more people Facebook has in a country the more important that country is. I think the wealth of people in a country / block plays an important role in that consideration. And EU countries are far richer than most other countries.
hashmal 9y ago
There is a difference between looking at the first EU country in a list and the EU as a whole. It's not a market you can decide to leave on a whim if you're a serious business.
twblalock 9y ago
Heh, wrong link. It should be https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-...

lima 9y ago

The GDPR isn't actually as bad as people claim. The law is actually pretty reasonable. It is the result of years of discussion and deliberation. In fact, privacy watchdogs are complaining that it doesn't go far enough - it leaves plenty of holes. Most of the GDPR is about informed consent, having a valid reason for processing personal data and individual rights. Facebook will do just fine, they had years to prepare and an army of lawyers. It will force them to be more transparent, which is a good thing. Many EU member states like Germany already had very similar laws in place (like the BDSG), the GDPR unifies and standardizes them. Here's an excellent introduction: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

waytogo 9y ago
> Facebook will do just fine, they had years to prepare and an army of lawyers. They won't do fine. Don't want to go into details but their actual products/required architectures for their products just can't be GDPR compliant. And they didn't prepare anything. You confuse them with Google--they prepared GDPR but FB? Btw, one of GDPR's key motivation was to take FB down.
- ionforce 9y ago
  > one of GDPR's key motivation was to take FB down. Do you have a citation for this claim?
  - waytogo 9y ago
    It's the modern version of a trade war between the US and the EU which targets massive online monopolies which the EU doesn't have.
    - Crontab 9y ago
      That is an opinion - it doesn't prove your claim.
- 9y ago

songshu 9y ago

The GDPR is beautiful and an example of the best outcomes democracy can produce. The winners are pretty much everyone. It's sad that the US can't implement public policy like this.

saas_co_de 9y ago
It is good that they are protecting their citizens from exploitation by US companies but this is not uncommon that it is easier to regulate a large company that is not your constituent. The EU has not done so well on regulating diesel autos for instance but the US is knocking that one of the park.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  Your comparison is not correct. The practices of FB are not universally considered bad, many people are OK with them. The diesel scandal was a deliberate scheme to cheat everybody - you can't find anyone who considers what they did as good. And the Germans finally started arresting people, too - although the USA gave a good example.
  - petre 9y ago
    The Germans are treating VW just like the US was treating the bankers responsible for the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis: with a pat on the back.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    > The practices of FB are not universally considered bad, many people are OK with them Really. Please point me at these people. People that simply "don't care, yolo" do not count. People that have a stake in this because they have an interest in the tech business and fear that any decisions in this matter might negatively impact their business, also do not count (because a very specific yet vocal slice of the tech sector is hardly representative of what is "universally" considered right or wrong). If you think that's too restrictive, and those are the only two groups you can point at, that's okay. I don't really believe those two groups (ignorance and business interest) should be considered representative of what is universally considered right or wrong. If you believe otherwise we'll have to agree to have a different view on ethics (which is a bit of a long discussion I'm not up for right now). Everybody else I hear about this (I said "almost everybody" at first, but I can't think of anyone), DOES think it's bad, but admit that "what can you do, if everyone uses it" (hence the need for EU regulations!!) and because "it's really useful to keep in touch with long-distance friends and family, also to plan events etc", the latter being a reasonable point except there's nothing unique about FB's capability providing this service, and it's really easy enough to do it without violating privacy, if it weren't for FB dominating the social network sphere and forcing the privacy violations on the general public.

mseebach 9y ago

> Wait until GDPR is in place in May and German and other EU courts will rule FB to death. If indeed GDPR will enable those courts to "rule FB to death", and not, as repeatedly promised, be entirely reasonable to comply with, including for Facebook, obviously Facebook will shut down in Europe (and so will a good number of other popular services), and tell their millions of former users why. Here's a quick, free lesson in politics: that will not end well for the GDPR.

loup-vaillant 9y ago
If they do this, traditional TV will likely bang our heads over how deceptive these companies are. They will point out the fine prints in the EULA with the most outraged tone possible. They will conflate the issue with US spying on everyone ("NSA" and "Snowden" will be uttered repeatedly). Because doing so is in the interest of EU corporate powers: let's drive away, or at least hinder, US companies on our soil, so we can develop our own. Even if the initial intent was not to put up a trade barrier, it will be used as such. Not that would be a bad thing: from what I have heard, the GDPR seems fine, as well as quite defensible.
- mseebach 9y ago
  > the GDPR seems fine, as well as quite defensible. So, that's the thing. Either, it's fine and defensible, and the Facebooks of the world will just comply, and so won't be a trade barrier, or it's not. It can't be both. And also, don't wish for a "trade barrier" for this purpose, import substitution has been demonstrated over and over again to be really just awful policy.
  - loup-vaillant 9y ago
    I was hypothesising Facebook being unreasonable. And their business model could very well be incompatible with GDPR. They're an ad company that feeds on personal data. I'm not sure they can get the informed consent of most of their users for this. Simply put, GDPR could be reasonable and sue Facebook to death (at least within its borders).

vkou 9y ago

> IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets. By limiting their use of personal data, according to the law? And by requesting informed consent from users, instead of silently opting them into all their anti-privacy features? And by not hiding this two thirds of the way through a 100 page TOS? It's not like it's impossible to make a good faith attempt at all those things. Facebook isn't even trying. When they make a good faith attempt, and get sued out of existance, you may have a point. They haven't, though.

Gys 9y ago

I wonder. In my opinion more rules only means bigger hurdles for newcomers. The big companies might have a setback but will survive one way or another because they have the knowledge and money (lawyers, lobbyists) to adapt. A good example is the VAT law of Europe. No problem for big companies, but small companies struggle to comply (its a returning subject on HN). Or the net neutrality law in the US: it will become harder for a startup to disrupt YouTube.

Mahn 9y ago
Europe is too concerned wrestling with large US tech companies to understand that more regulations will only exacerbate the very thing they are trying to get away from.

romanovcode 9y ago

> withdrawal from these markets. Good, I would love to see FB be gone from EU altogether.

tripzilch 9y ago

> IDK how FB will ever be compliant with GDPR and survive that huge upcoming fines in the long term or in the worst case the withdrawal from these markets. The worst case? I think that's the best case, actually. You do realize there's nothing special about Facebook at all, except for currently being the most popular and biggest social network. The major features I hear people repeat again and again for not leaving Facebook (keeping in touch with family and friends, planning events) also happen to the most basic, easily reproducible features. It's just getting the userbase that is hard. So yeah, Facebook withdrawing from EU markets? PLEASE DO! I predict within no time, we'll have a whole bunch of replacement social networks (they already exist even), with better features, better privacy and hopefully interoperability. It's not hard to switch at all, not even to the general public. They'll just register for whatever their friends are using. The only thing holding them hostage is that "everyone is on it". In fact teenagers already want to be on social networks their parents aren't on. They might lose their timeline, comments, posts, memories, pictures? Guess who they'll blame.