13 ms·

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather so

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories are needed, since all shades of gray look OK with all sheens of black. 3) More people are working from home several days a week, so nobody cares how you're dressed. I'm astonished at how fast this has changed here (outside Philly). Probably 2/3 our cubes are empty on most days. Five years ago, they were full, because upper management insisted we be physically present and that we follow a dress code (no jeans). But now that management is no longer physically co-located with staff, and almost all meetings are online, nobody cares where you are or what you wear.

dboreham 9y ago
Sweat Pants should be trending up then!
- intrasight 9y ago
  Not if you wear nothing ;)
- petroseskinder 9y ago
  Indeed, they are and have been trending up for a few years now. The fashion calls it Athleisure.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Also, healthgoth fashion
    - cat199 9y ago
      this 'healthgoth' thing looks pretty much exactly like 'darker' styles of rave fashion for the last 20-25 years..
  - walshemj 9y ago
    which Is not cheap
    - akgerber 9y ago
      There's plenty of cheap athleisure stuff: https://www.target.com/c/activewear-women-s-clothing/c9-champion/-/N-5xtclZ4yk83 https://www.target.com/c/activewear-women-s-clothing/c9-cham...
- ams6110 9y ago
  Unfortunately this goes a little too far in my book. Sweatpants/fleece pants/pajamas are not suitable office attire, even in casual offices. It just makes you look like a slob, and in many cases certain anatomical details are too visible.
ataturk 9y ago
All of which illustrates how stupid management types have been all these years regarding dress codes, remote work, everything. The MBA is an echo chamber degree that has held America back.
usukatstats 9y ago
> More people are working from home... Your office is not representative of the entire US workforce, dear.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  "More people" implies increasing amount, not entire workforce.
  - usukatstats 9y ago
    Fine, I’ll be that guy: CITATION NEEDED. “More people” in your office says nothing except that more people in YOUR OFFICE are remote. I don’t understand how people who bill themselves as so smart can continue to fall for these basic errors in reasoning. > More people are working from home several days a week, so nobody cares how you're dressed. Says who? Where is this data? Is it from a survey? A study? Or something you’ve decided is true for everyone because you see it at your own office once in a while and decided to build up an entire belief system around it?
    - Retric 9y ago
      It's still true for the overall US workforce. {CITATION} http://globalworkplaceanalytics.com/telecommuting-statistics http://globalworkplaceanalytics.com/telecommuting-statistics (2005-2015 American Community Survey) Regular work-at-home, among the non-self-employed population, has grown by 115% since 2005, nearly 10x faster than the rest of the workforce. 3.7 million employees (2.8% of the workforce) now work from home at least half the time. The employee population as a whole grew by 1.9% from 2013 to 2014, while employees who telecommuter population grew 5.6%. PS: Culture is shared, so personal experiences generalizes more than you might think.
    - pclstyle 9y ago
      your tone is condescending but i'll bite: cursory search will provide plenty of evidence for the claim that telecommuting is on the rise; very little evidence to the contrary. http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/21/pf/jobs/working-from-home/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/21/pf/jobs/working-from-home/in...
dx034 9y ago
Even Banking/Finance has become more casual over the past years. Nothing compared to other industries but the demand for suits is dropping there as well.
zeveb 9y ago
> Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.' But I think that I'm a bit weird — I actually enjoy dressing differently for different occasions: it helps me get into the right headspace. Programming while wearing hiking clothes would make as much sense to me as hiking in a tuxedo.
- briandear 9y ago
  Now I am curious — what are programming clothes? I actually think hiking clothes would be awesome to program in — comfortable layers, freedom of movement, durable.. a suit makes no sense for programming; restrictive collars, a tie (!!) and a propensity to wrinkle when sitting. I think you might have sparked a business idea! Clothes for Coders. Couldn’t be any more ridiculous than when Tiesto released a shoe for DJing!
  - drharby 9y ago
    Varies from people. Hell i can program in my underwear provided i dont have a draft
    - nasredin 9y ago
      Huh. During a recent heatwave I wrote code the way C Gods (K&R) intended - with absolutly minimal clothing.
  - zeveb 9y ago
    > Now I am curious — what are programming clothes? For me, slacks & a button-down shirt with an open collar. Not as constricted as a coat & tie or jeans, not as uncomfortably exposed as a T-shirt & shorts: slacks & a shirt feel Just Right™ to me.
- smelendez 9y ago
  > I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.' Sure! But for a lot of people (especially men), roughly the same "decent clothes" are now decent for work, date night, going to the supermarket, going to your friend's rock show, going to the airport, family holidays, etc. In even the recent past, you could dress well or poorly, but you'd still have to dress more differently for different places. I had jury duty earlier this week and was afraid I'd look like a jerk not wearing a tie. It turned out I was one of the few men wearing a collared shirt and slacks.
freejulian 9y ago
All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.
- tehlike 9y ago
  People don't have the time to spend on clothing.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    This is going to sound a bit arrogant, but a person has only room for so many decisions for a day before they get burned for the day. This is why i prefer to pick a random tshirt, wear same sneakers etc every day (they are clean, yes). I tend to grab food from the same truck, at the same time - i do not think about it.
    - kimdcmason 9y ago
      Doesn't sound arrogant at all. People are pressed for time, and the costs of spending time on clothing outweigh the benefits for many.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  Agree, I think the income and wealth gap are bigger contributors to many of the shifts in consumer habits. Some is due to experiences and stuff you can take pictures of being in vogue, but given the opportunity, people will choose to show status. They just can't afford to since they have less now. I wish there were stats showing different segments of the market, but in a simple observation, look at the declining results of mid market retailers (even online). You have luxury doing okay, like Nordstroms, but nothing else until you get to the much lower priced brands.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  People don't have the money to spend on clothing, but can spend it on experiences and travel? Either one of those seems like a free money purchase, with clothing being less of one. I don't disagree with your assertion that wages have been stagnant and that cost of living is increasing (which should be obvious as more people == fewer resources) but even from my own anecdotal experience as somebody who is paid very well I buy fewer clothes than I used to. I buy nice clothes, but the clothes I have are clothes that don't go out of style, or even if they do I just don't care. Maybe more Americans feel this way as well? And as others have mentioned, the work place is fortunately becoming more casual with respect to dress. I work in finance and even here we wear t-shirts and jeans. There's no reason for me to buy 10 shirts from Brooks Brothers, 3 suits, ties, dress shoes, sweaters to go with the shirts, etc. as my casual clothes are also what I wear to work. Maybe more people are spending less on "brands" like Burberry and more on H&M or lifestyle brands (Arcteryx/Patagonia/NF) or basic colors/styles that don't require you to repurchase?
amyjess 9y ago
I'm going to add another: 4) We have more money sinks now. Just think what entertainment purchases looked like back in the '60s and '70s. You had no video games, no home video. A/V technology progressed so slowly that your TV set and your stereo system wouldn't become obsolete. The only upgrade people made was going up to a color TV (and B&W sets were much less common by the end of the '70s). So, the average person would buy one TV set and one stereo system, and they'd have a bookshelf and a record collection. Nowadays in the 21st century, there's a dizzying array of stuff you can buy for your own entertainment. As such, people are diverting their funds away from traditional lifestyle purchases (clothes, furniture, etc.) and towards modern forms of entertainment (video games, Blu-rays, Netflix and Hulu subscriptions, etc.) and upgrading our basic hardware (new computers and phones every couple of years, going from old-school TVs to HDTV to 3DTV to 4K, new video game consoles every generation, etc.). (Also, I'll say that your point #2 applies more to men than women. Women's clothing is still very colorful.)
drewmol 9y ago
In addition, with the ubiquity of online persona I wonder if: (4) Physical appearence/face to face meeting is not usually where people form their first impression anymore, and focus/effort has shifted from wardrobe to online appearance
memorymappings 9y ago
Yeah also people have other things to spend money on now. Young people my age invest in fashion but also invest in experiences and food. The cost of clothing is going down as well so it's easier to acquire a fashionable wardrobe for cheap now and use the remainder on food experiences etc as far as free cash flow goes to spend on things outside of the required. Also the internet, I can now even though it's freezing in NY, compare prices for a goosedown North face jacket from 5 different places and save $40 or so before I order one online. Competition drives price down. Clothing like so many other retail genres, is just apart of the retailpocolypse.

dboreham 9y ago

Sweat Pants should be trending up then!

intrasight 9y ago
Not if you wear nothing ;)
petroseskinder 9y ago
Indeed, they are and have been trending up for a few years now. The fashion calls it Athleisure.
- gaius 9y ago
  Also, healthgoth fashion
  - cat199 9y ago
    this 'healthgoth' thing looks pretty much exactly like 'darker' styles of rave fashion for the last 20-25 years..
- walshemj 9y ago
  which Is not cheap
  - akgerber 9y ago
    There's plenty of cheap athleisure stuff: https://www.target.com/c/activewear-women-s-clothing/c9-champion/-/N-5xtclZ4yk83 https://www.target.com/c/activewear-women-s-clothing/c9-cham...
ams6110 9y ago
Unfortunately this goes a little too far in my book. Sweatpants/fleece pants/pajamas are not suitable office attire, even in casual offices. It just makes you look like a slob, and in many cases certain anatomical details are too visible.

ataturk 9y ago

All of which illustrates how stupid management types have been all these years regarding dress codes, remote work, everything. The MBA is an echo chamber degree that has held America back.

usukatstats 9y ago

> More people are working from home... Your office is not representative of the entire US workforce, dear.

bdcravens 9y ago
"More people" implies increasing amount, not entire workforce.
- usukatstats 9y ago
  Fine, I’ll be that guy: CITATION NEEDED. “More people” in your office says nothing except that more people in YOUR OFFICE are remote. I don’t understand how people who bill themselves as so smart can continue to fall for these basic errors in reasoning. > More people are working from home several days a week, so nobody cares how you're dressed. Says who? Where is this data? Is it from a survey? A study? Or something you’ve decided is true for everyone because you see it at your own office once in a while and decided to build up an entire belief system around it?
  - Retric 9y ago
    It's still true for the overall US workforce. {CITATION} http://globalworkplaceanalytics.com/telecommuting-statistics http://globalworkplaceanalytics.com/telecommuting-statistics (2005-2015 American Community Survey) Regular work-at-home, among the non-self-employed population, has grown by 115% since 2005, nearly 10x faster than the rest of the workforce. 3.7 million employees (2.8% of the workforce) now work from home at least half the time. The employee population as a whole grew by 1.9% from 2013 to 2014, while employees who telecommuter population grew 5.6%. PS: Culture is shared, so personal experiences generalizes more than you might think.
  - pclstyle 9y ago
    your tone is condescending but i'll bite: cursory search will provide plenty of evidence for the claim that telecommuting is on the rise; very little evidence to the contrary. http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/21/pf/jobs/working-from-home/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/21/pf/jobs/working-from-home/in...

dx034 9y ago

Even Banking/Finance has become more casual over the past years. Nothing compared to other industries but the demand for suits is dropping there as well.

zeveb 9y ago

> Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.' But I think that I'm a bit weird — I actually enjoy dressing differently for different occasions: it helps me get into the right headspace. Programming while wearing hiking clothes would make as much sense to me as hiking in a tuxedo.

briandear 9y ago
Now I am curious — what are programming clothes? I actually think hiking clothes would be awesome to program in — comfortable layers, freedom of movement, durable.. a suit makes no sense for programming; restrictive collars, a tie (!!) and a propensity to wrinkle when sitting. I think you might have sparked a business idea! Clothes for Coders. Couldn’t be any more ridiculous than when Tiesto released a shoe for DJing!
- drharby 9y ago
  Varies from people. Hell i can program in my underwear provided i dont have a draft
  - nasredin 9y ago
    Huh. During a recent heatwave I wrote code the way C Gods (K&R) intended - with absolutly minimal clothing.
- zeveb 9y ago
  > Now I am curious — what are programming clothes? For me, slacks & a button-down shirt with an open collar. Not as constricted as a coat & tie or jeans, not as uncomfortably exposed as a T-shirt & shorts: slacks & a shirt feel Just Right™ to me.
smelendez 9y ago
> I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.' Sure! But for a lot of people (especially men), roughly the same "decent clothes" are now decent for work, date night, going to the supermarket, going to your friend's rock show, going to the airport, family holidays, etc. In even the recent past, you could dress well or poorly, but you'd still have to dress more differently for different places. I had jury duty earlier this week and was afraid I'd look like a jerk not wearing a tie. It turned out I was one of the few men wearing a collared shirt and slacks.

freejulian 9y ago

All these explanations are rather complicated. I think the simplest explanation is the best: people don't have the free money to spend on clothing. This is evidenced by the following facts: 1) Wages have been stagnant 2) Cost of living has been increasing well beyond the stated 2% rate of inflation.

tehlike 9y ago
People don't have the time to spend on clothing.
- tehlike 9y ago
  This is going to sound a bit arrogant, but a person has only room for so many decisions for a day before they get burned for the day. This is why i prefer to pick a random tshirt, wear same sneakers etc every day (they are clean, yes). I tend to grab food from the same truck, at the same time - i do not think about it.
  - kimdcmason 9y ago
    Doesn't sound arrogant at all. People are pressed for time, and the costs of spending time on clothing outweigh the benefits for many.
lotsofpulp 9y ago
Agree, I think the income and wealth gap are bigger contributors to many of the shifts in consumer habits. Some is due to experiences and stuff you can take pictures of being in vogue, but given the opportunity, people will choose to show status. They just can't afford to since they have less now. I wish there were stats showing different segments of the market, but in a simple observation, look at the declining results of mid market retailers (even online). You have luxury doing okay, like Nordstroms, but nothing else until you get to the much lower priced brands.
muninn_ 9y ago
People don't have the money to spend on clothing, but can spend it on experiences and travel? Either one of those seems like a free money purchase, with clothing being less of one. I don't disagree with your assertion that wages have been stagnant and that cost of living is increasing (which should be obvious as more people == fewer resources) but even from my own anecdotal experience as somebody who is paid very well I buy fewer clothes than I used to. I buy nice clothes, but the clothes I have are clothes that don't go out of style, or even if they do I just don't care. Maybe more Americans feel this way as well? And as others have mentioned, the work place is fortunately becoming more casual with respect to dress. I work in finance and even here we wear t-shirts and jeans. There's no reason for me to buy 10 shirts from Brooks Brothers, 3 suits, ties, dress shoes, sweaters to go with the shirts, etc. as my casual clothes are also what I wear to work. Maybe more people are spending less on "brands" like Burberry and more on H&M or lifestyle brands (Arcteryx/Patagonia/NF) or basic colors/styles that don't require you to repurchase?

amyjess 9y ago

I'm going to add another: 4) We have more money sinks now. Just think what entertainment purchases looked like back in the '60s and '70s. You had no video games, no home video. A/V technology progressed so slowly that your TV set and your stereo system wouldn't become obsolete. The only upgrade people made was going up to a color TV (and B&W sets were much less common by the end of the '70s). So, the average person would buy one TV set and one stereo system, and they'd have a bookshelf and a record collection. Nowadays in the 21st century, there's a dizzying array of stuff you can buy for your own entertainment. As such, people are diverting their funds away from traditional lifestyle purchases (clothes, furniture, etc.) and towards modern forms of entertainment (video games, Blu-rays, Netflix and Hulu subscriptions, etc.) and upgrading our basic hardware (new computers and phones every couple of years, going from old-school TVs to HDTV to 3DTV to 4K, new video game consoles every generation, etc.). (Also, I'll say that your point #2 applies more to men than women. Women's clothing is still very colorful.)

drewmol 9y ago

In addition, with the ubiquity of online persona I wonder if: (4) Physical appearence/face to face meeting is not usually where people form their first impression anymore, and focus/effort has shifted from wardrobe to online appearance

memorymappings 9y ago

Yeah also people have other things to spend money on now. Young people my age invest in fashion but also invest in experiences and food. The cost of clothing is going down as well so it's easier to acquire a fashionable wardrobe for cheap now and use the remainder on food experiences etc as far as free cash flow goes to spend on things outside of the required. Also the internet, I can now even though it's freezing in NY, compare prices for a goosedown North face jacket from 5 different places and save $40 or so before I order one online. Competition drives price down. Clothing like so many other retail genres, is just apart of the retailpocolypse.