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The US doesn't need a Shenzhen. It already has free enterprise, electronics suppliers and prototyping equipment. The problem is the barrier to entry, mostly liv

by goty 9y ago

The US doesn't need a Shenzhen. It already has free enterprise, electronics suppliers and prototyping equipment. The problem is the barrier to entry, mostly living costs. There isn't really much you can do in Shenzhen that you can't do in the bay area. It will just cost you five times as much. But of course it depends on what you mean by "a Shenzhen".

csense 9y ago
> The US doesn't need a Shenzhen When the US was a manufacturing superpower for most of the 20th century, it provided a way for ordinary people to earn a good living. Workers and suppliers pumped money into a wide variety of local businesses. Starting around the early '80s, the manufacturing started moving overseas, especially to China. The Rust Belt region (where I'm from) never really recovered economically, although there are a few bright spots if you know where to look. What did we do wrong and China do right, that the economic prosperity left us and went to them instead? How can we learn from their formula for success and adapt it for ourselves? It sure seems like having a piece of the growth industries of the 21st century located in your country is a big piece of the puzzle in terms of providing well-paying jobs to our citizens and promoting their quality of life. Which should help with some of the political problems we've been having recently. How do we make it happen?
- goty 9y ago
  It isn't for a lack of "a Shenzhen". Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, New York etc. is the Shenzhen of the US. They are all home of massive growth industries. That this doesn't sustain or lead to (what could be summarized as) widespread prosperity is, well, the problem.
- chii 9y ago
  but is Shenzhen a place of prosperity for most people living and working there? or is mostly a small cadre of rich elites, and tonnes of poorer people working a living wage?
throwawaybbqed 9y ago
The parent comment is actually a good one. I think the spirit of shenzen is different or experimental. We have a lot of regulations in developed countries - many good but some to the point that the president criticizes them in the state of the union (point about the empire state building). It is an interesting idea to have a wild west type economic zone .. given that govts are really trying to boost innovation, maybe something good can come of it. I know this is hard to do .. earthquake regs seems pointless until u have an earthquake - i get that. But look at the shit transit in most of our cities ... I think high costs are because of complex regulations.
- goty2 9y ago
  There are obviously differences. The point I am trying to make is that there is no one answer. It is not like the flaw happened to be that the US has 5% too high corporate tax and if you lower that somewhere will become Shenzhen. Shenzhen is special because it was the first area in China to liberalize. The US have already have those features, including special economic zones in form of states. So if Shenzhen is successful because it is special shouldn't the US make some areas special as well? It essentially already did in the form of e.g. the bay area. But Shenzhen didn't stop growing. California has plenty of space in the Central Valley, but no infrastructure. Shenzhen built ~200 subway stations in 15 years. The US is trying to build that rail line between SF and LA. (The line between HK and SZ is delayed because of HK though). So there is no one answer. It is all there. Sure, you could say that the government should step in, tax the tech companies, build infrastructure and allocate land for these cities to expand. But that wouldn't be very popular with voters. Or one could move to Wyoming (?) and pay little tax. But what makes that place special in comparison to other places and what is going to keep people there as living costs go up? And once the companies succeed and the state wants to invest in infrastructure why wouldn't the companies just leave? The best I can come up with is to find some underutilized university and build an incubator where the state (or a company, probably a non-profit) invests in companies for equity while offering some cash, free living and office space. The profits are then used to execute a long term development plan of the area. But that is of course as hard to do as anything else.
  - 9y ago

by goty 9y ago

csense 9y ago

> The US doesn't need a Shenzhen When the US was a manufacturing superpower for most of the 20th century, it provided a way for ordinary people to earn a good living. Workers and suppliers pumped money into a wide variety of local businesses. Starting around the early '80s, the manufacturing started moving overseas, especially to China. The Rust Belt region (where I'm from) never really recovered economically, although there are a few bright spots if you know where to look. What did we do wrong and China do right, that the economic prosperity left us and went to them instead? How can we learn from their formula for success and adapt it for ourselves? It sure seems like having a piece of the growth industries of the 21st century located in your country is a big piece of the puzzle in terms of providing well-paying jobs to our citizens and promoting their quality of life. Which should help with some of the political problems we've been having recently. How do we make it happen?

goty 9y ago
It isn't for a lack of "a Shenzhen". Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, New York etc. is the Shenzhen of the US. They are all home of massive growth industries. That this doesn't sustain or lead to (what could be summarized as) widespread prosperity is, well, the problem.
chii 9y ago
but is Shenzhen a place of prosperity for most people living and working there? or is mostly a small cadre of rich elites, and tonnes of poorer people working a living wage?

throwawaybbqed 9y ago

The parent comment is actually a good one. I think the spirit of shenzen is different or experimental. We have a lot of regulations in developed countries - many good but some to the point that the president criticizes them in the state of the union (point about the empire state building). It is an interesting idea to have a wild west type economic zone .. given that govts are really trying to boost innovation, maybe something good can come of it. I know this is hard to do .. earthquake regs seems pointless until u have an earthquake - i get that. But look at the shit transit in most of our cities ... I think high costs are because of complex regulations.

goty2 9y ago
There are obviously differences. The point I am trying to make is that there is no one answer. It is not like the flaw happened to be that the US has 5% too high corporate tax and if you lower that somewhere will become Shenzhen. Shenzhen is special because it was the first area in China to liberalize. The US have already have those features, including special economic zones in form of states. So if Shenzhen is successful because it is special shouldn't the US make some areas special as well? It essentially already did in the form of e.g. the bay area. But Shenzhen didn't stop growing. California has plenty of space in the Central Valley, but no infrastructure. Shenzhen built ~200 subway stations in 15 years. The US is trying to build that rail line between SF and LA. (The line between HK and SZ is delayed because of HK though). So there is no one answer. It is all there. Sure, you could say that the government should step in, tax the tech companies, build infrastructure and allocate land for these cities to expand. But that wouldn't be very popular with voters. Or one could move to Wyoming (?) and pay little tax. But what makes that place special in comparison to other places and what is going to keep people there as living costs go up? And once the companies succeed and the state wants to invest in infrastructure why wouldn't the companies just leave? The best I can come up with is to find some underutilized university and build an incubator where the state (or a company, probably a non-profit) invests in companies for equity while offering some cash, free living and office space. The profits are then used to execute a long term development plan of the area. But that is of course as hard to do as anything else.
- 9y ago