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What will stop legislators from siphoning off this chunk of cash? How much will be lost in infamous Illinois corruption? The system is already $129B in the hole

What will stop legislators from siphoning off this chunk of cash? How much will be lost in infamous Illinois corruption? The system is already $129B in the hole; this smacks of desperation.

rayiner 9y ago
Is corruption the main problem? When I moved to Illinois in 2009, I was shocked to see it had public services like New York but taxes lower than Virginia or Georgia. State income tax was like 3% until recently. Obviously that wasn’t going to work.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  And further one side of the equation (benefits) are constitutionally garaunteed but the other side (funding) isn’t. There is t a lot of room for corruption when allocation doesn’t happen. My big question in all of this is why the mid & early career governmental union members keep going along with the strikes. They are out of luck regardless and should be negotiating for fallback positions.
  - scott00 9y ago
    The unions simply want taxes to be raised to whatever level is necessary to pay them what they want. It's been a while since I did the math, but my recollection is the level of taxation required to balance Illinois' books is not completely insane (though it is high).
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Doesn't that high number presume that businesses won't move over the WI and IN border to avoid the tax increase? Most of the economy of IL is minutes from those borders.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - scott00 9y ago
        It does. I'm sure some would move, but New York and California maintain high tax rates without turning into ghost towns. To be clear, I'm not arguing the union position is correct, just that it's not ridiculous on its face. It's feasibility depends on subtle second order effects like the one you describe, not on raising tax collection to obviously impossible levels.
        tptacek 9y ago
        NYC is sui generis. California is geographically hard to flee from --- but people do flee SoCal for Vegas.
      - ghostly_s 9y ago
        Those borders aren't far, but it's not like Kansas City. No one should be worried about tens of thousands of people's jobs being relocated from central/suburban Chicago to rural Wisconsin. People live in a place like Chicago for a whole host of reasons beyond just 'the job is there' and we need to forget this lowest-common-denominator argument.
- spamizbad 9y ago
  IL is a bit distinct in how it funds things: At the state level its per-pupil education funding is the lowest in the nation. Medicaid rolls are also lower than the national average as well. If you are looking at the state level, it's a fairly lean operation, ranking quite low in terms of government employees per capita (see: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/states-most-government-workers-public-employees-by-job-type.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/...) -- just 49 FTEs per 10,000 residents. There are deep-red stats with nearly double that figure. So how does IL do it? For starters, local property taxes pick up the slack. We have some of the highest in the nation. Further compounding this, we have hundreds of local governmental layers like townships that fall somewhere between a town/city and a county that provide services, have elected offices, pay employees, etc. It's services are all heavily localized because the state's involvement is limited. It's also grossly inefficient. IL needs a progressive income tax, pension reform, and needs to consolidate services at either the county or city level. Even Chicago, with all its graft and political machinery, was smart enough to jettison townships decades ago. I honestly have no clue what the redder, more conservative, more tax-conscious part of the state cling to them.
  - joezydeco 9y ago
    For starters, local property taxes pick up the slack. Yup, and now it's not deductible anymore past the first 10K thanks to the new GOP tax laws. People rushed to their county tax offices to prepay as much as they could before the end of 2017, but it's a lot of headache and effort for a one-time small relief.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Most people in IL don't have property taxes that exceed the SALT cap; the median homeowning family wouldn't exceed that cap in property and income taxes combined, right?
      - joezydeco 9y ago
        Most people, sure. I'm in DuPage - highest property taxes in the state (closing in on 2.25%). So a $400K home will easily get you up near the 10K mark...and that's not even counting your income taxes.
- cobbzilla 9y ago
  When you moved there in 2009, were you also shocked to know that your previous two governors were (or would soon be) serving prison sentences related to corruption charges?
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Non sequitur. The fact that we had a governor that tried to sell a Senate seat does not dictate that corruption sets the high order bit on state finances. Like several other states, pension obligations that are straightforward to follow on the books seem to be the major problem we're facing.
    - cobbzilla 9y ago
      Sure, just a few bad apples. Nothing is endemic.
      - tptacek 9y ago
        Look at Brownback's Kansas for a vivid example of pure intentions destroying a balance sheet.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

What will stop legislators from siphoning off this chunk of cash? How much will be lost in infamous Illinois corruption? The system is already $129B in the hole; this smacks of desperation.

rayiner 9y ago

Is corruption the main problem? When I moved to Illinois in 2009, I was shocked to see it had public services like New York but taxes lower than Virginia or Georgia. State income tax was like 3% until recently. Obviously that wasn’t going to work.

kasey_junk 9y ago
And further one side of the equation (benefits) are constitutionally garaunteed but the other side (funding) isn’t. There is t a lot of room for corruption when allocation doesn’t happen. My big question in all of this is why the mid & early career governmental union members keep going along with the strikes. They are out of luck regardless and should be negotiating for fallback positions.
- scott00 9y ago
  The unions simply want taxes to be raised to whatever level is necessary to pay them what they want. It's been a while since I did the math, but my recollection is the level of taxation required to balance Illinois' books is not completely insane (though it is high).
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Doesn't that high number presume that businesses won't move over the WI and IN border to avoid the tax increase? Most of the economy of IL is minutes from those borders.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - scott00 9y ago
      It does. I'm sure some would move, but New York and California maintain high tax rates without turning into ghost towns. To be clear, I'm not arguing the union position is correct, just that it's not ridiculous on its face. It's feasibility depends on subtle second order effects like the one you describe, not on raising tax collection to obviously impossible levels.
      - tptacek 9y ago
        NYC is sui generis. California is geographically hard to flee from --- but people do flee SoCal for Vegas.
    - ghostly_s 9y ago
      Those borders aren't far, but it's not like Kansas City. No one should be worried about tens of thousands of people's jobs being relocated from central/suburban Chicago to rural Wisconsin. People live in a place like Chicago for a whole host of reasons beyond just 'the job is there' and we need to forget this lowest-common-denominator argument.
spamizbad 9y ago
IL is a bit distinct in how it funds things: At the state level its per-pupil education funding is the lowest in the nation. Medicaid rolls are also lower than the national average as well. If you are looking at the state level, it's a fairly lean operation, ranking quite low in terms of government employees per capita (see: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/states-most-government-workers-public-employees-by-job-type.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/...) -- just 49 FTEs per 10,000 residents. There are deep-red stats with nearly double that figure. So how does IL do it? For starters, local property taxes pick up the slack. We have some of the highest in the nation. Further compounding this, we have hundreds of local governmental layers like townships that fall somewhere between a town/city and a county that provide services, have elected offices, pay employees, etc. It's services are all heavily localized because the state's involvement is limited. It's also grossly inefficient. IL needs a progressive income tax, pension reform, and needs to consolidate services at either the county or city level. Even Chicago, with all its graft and political machinery, was smart enough to jettison townships decades ago. I honestly have no clue what the redder, more conservative, more tax-conscious part of the state cling to them.
- joezydeco 9y ago
  For starters, local property taxes pick up the slack. Yup, and now it's not deductible anymore past the first 10K thanks to the new GOP tax laws. People rushed to their county tax offices to prepay as much as they could before the end of 2017, but it's a lot of headache and effort for a one-time small relief.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Most people in IL don't have property taxes that exceed the SALT cap; the median homeowning family wouldn't exceed that cap in property and income taxes combined, right?
    - joezydeco 9y ago
      Most people, sure. I'm in DuPage - highest property taxes in the state (closing in on 2.25%). So a $400K home will easily get you up near the 10K mark...and that's not even counting your income taxes.
cobbzilla 9y ago
When you moved there in 2009, were you also shocked to know that your previous two governors were (or would soon be) serving prison sentences related to corruption charges?
- tptacek 9y ago
  Non sequitur. The fact that we had a governor that tried to sell a Senate seat does not dictate that corruption sets the high order bit on state finances. Like several other states, pension obligations that are straightforward to follow on the books seem to be the major problem we're facing.
  - cobbzilla 9y ago
    Sure, just a few bad apples. Nothing is endemic.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Look at Brownback's Kansas for a vivid example of pure intentions destroying a balance sheet.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]